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We really do not need to Your Fav Is Problematic our 90s TV shows
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Jan 17, 2023 22:00
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HD DAD posted:Manny Coto also turned out to be a massive chud. I vaguely remember him tearing into Linda Park online sometime after Trump won. I recall he also went on and the deleted a Twitter rant about how woke audiences weren't watching is lovely and quickly canceled "What if AI... was bad  " show on Fox a couple years ago. And that was the last I heard of Manny Coto.
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Jan 17, 2023 22:03
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Lincoln posted:I need to know the political affiliations of the actors in a show so I can decide whether I like the show or not. I can't tell if you're joking or not, but after the third or fourth time you have to completely repudiate a piece of media because someone involved was a complete monster you do get a little gunshy about getting into new things. It won't prevent incidents like "the producer is a serial rapist" problems but it might reduce "creator goes mask off about being a neo-nazi" problems.
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Jan 17, 2023 22:07
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At least Colm Meany turned out to be cool 
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Jan 17, 2023 22:14
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IDK, all my life I've always assumed that the people on the tv aren't nice just because their characters are so I get to be pleasantly surprised when they are instead of disappointed when they aren't.
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Jan 17, 2023 22:25
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Tighclops posted:At least Colm Meany turned out to be cool Boxturret posted:IDK, all my life I've always assumed that the people on the tv aren't nice just because their characters are so I get to be pleasantly surprised when they are instead of disappointed when they aren't. That's the thing; when it comes to Trek the vast vast majority of actors involved in it turn out to be great people and it's only the rare cases where they aren't that stand out. Like, people have known Shatner's been a prick for nearly a century now and no one gives a poo poo because he can turn it off long enough for the cameras.
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Jan 17, 2023 22:28
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Twincityhacker posted:I can't tell if you're joking or not, but after the third or fourth time you have to completely repudiate a piece of media because someone involved was a complete monster you do get a little gunshy about getting into new things. I don't think any meaningful political change is going to be affected because of some impotent tutting other the personal views of a a handful of over the hill actors, like what do you want? Should we stop streaming Voyager and TNG to stop Sirtis and Beltran getting royalties? They're just garden variety dumbasses in a world of dumbasses
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Jan 17, 2023 22:31
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Twincityhacker posted:I can't tell if you're joking or not, but after the third or fourth time you have to completely repudiate a piece of media because someone involved was a complete monster you do get a little gunshy about getting into new things. I suppose if the concern is over providing residuals to these guys, in even the smallest amount, you can always pursue other means.
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Jan 17, 2023 22:33
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Nessus posted:What made you do this? Granted that praising Roman Polanski is a bad look, but I’ve never seen some kind of riot act over Rosemary’s Baby. Luckily for me, the only piece of art I've been invested in thar had this problem with his Harry Potter. I'm sure the size of the effort is tiny, but there is an effort to completely erase Harry Potter from cultural relevence. So not only is buying stuff bad, enjoying what you already have is bad. I understand the motivation behind it, as this effort comes from trans and trans friendly spaces, and since Rowling actively campaigns on making trans people's lives worse, being able to hit back at her makes sense. I just think it's unlikely to make a dent on her relevence what so ever. Also, more relevent to Star Trek, just watching stuff with a serial rapist like Kevin Spacey in it. Yeah, you can get it though other means but you still get a little voice in your head saying "he's a serial rapist" every time his charecter opens his mouth. ( Kevin Spacey never had anything to do with Star Trek, but Anthony Rapp was the first man out of dozens to accuse Spacey of molestation and/or rape. With a side of pedopbila, since Rapp was 14 at the time. ) Twincityhacker fucked around with this message at 23:15 on Jan 17, 2023 |
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Jan 17, 2023 23:10
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Twincityhacker posted:Luckily for me, the only piece of art I've been invested in thar had this problem with his Harry Potter. I'm sure the size of the effort is tiny, but there is an effort to completely erase Harry Potter from cultural relevence. So not only is buying stuff bad, enjoying what you already have is bad. Spacey's Mel Profitt arc in Wiseguy used to be my favorite part of what used to be my favorite show and it's completely ruined for me. Still that's probably nothing compared to Bill Cosby. Apparently a good 8-10 years before Hannibal Buress brought it into his act in 2014, there were several articles, even one in People about the various rape accusations against Cosby. And... they faded out of the news. I remember that one later internet article said something like "It was as though Americans looked at the accusations and collectively decided that they did not want to live in a world where Bill Cosby was a serial rapist. So they ignored them."
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Jan 17, 2023 23:37
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Everyone posted:Spacey's Mel Profitt arc in Wiseguy used to be my favorite part of what used to be my favorite show and it's completely ruined for me. I am mostly incoherently angry about Cosby, so I didn't include him, but he's the exactly the type of person I am talking about. So many projects, so much influence on other projects, and it's ashes.
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Jan 18, 2023 00:09
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Twincityhacker posted:I am mostly incoherently angry about Cosby, so I didn't include him, but he's the exactly the type of person I am talking about. So many projects, so much influence on other projects, and it's ashes. But to bring it back to Star Trek, none of the actors discussed have done (to our knowledge) done any IRL sex crimes. The worst of the bunch is Schultz but Beltran and Sirtis are just two idiots on Twitter who got Old brain and picked up some cranky views about vaccines, without defending any of their views or things they've said on twitter they don't warrant being in the same conversation as Polanski or Cosby at all
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Jan 18, 2023 00:36
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Beltran is a larouchite lmao
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Jan 18, 2023 00:45
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Roberto "as my personal hero George W. Bush once said, we are the deciders" Orci wading into the comments section of trekmovie while drunk was pretty hilarious
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Jan 18, 2023 01:02
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:Roberto "as my personal hero George W. Bush once said, we are the deciders" Orci wading into the comments section of trekmovie while drunk was pretty hilarious The is an alternate universe out there where Orci was able to keep his mouth shut at the right key moments and JJ Abrams nepo'd the keys to Star Trek into his hands instead of Alex Kurtzman's as he toddled off to go make Star Wars. So for people who think we're in the "darkest timeline", believe me... we could have gone darker.
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Jan 18, 2023 01:26
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No Dignity posted:But to bring it back to Star Trek, none of the actors discussed have done (to our knowledge) done any IRL sex crimes. The worst of the bunch is Schultz but Beltran and Sirtis are just two idiots on Twitter who got Old brain and picked up some cranky views about vaccines, without defending any of their views or things they've said on twitter they don't warrant being in the same conversation as Polanski or Cosby at all I think I tried to combine some things and it didn't work. A) knowing the politics of someone occsionally helps prevent surpises, like someone using various dogwhitles before going neo-nazi. B) knowing the politics of someone doesn't always prevent surprises, like someone being a rapist. So I can sympathize with someone trying to screen out "people who might be crypto neo-nazis" but it's going to be nearly impossibe to do so though tweets. So, knowing someone's politics is more likely going to be Irritating than Helpful.
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Jan 18, 2023 01:34
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The only thing dumb I remember Sirtis being is really really defensive of the Queen. Someone posted a photoshop of her in a Starfleet uniform and Sirtis was like THAT'S NOT FUNNY AT ALL.
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Jan 18, 2023 03:23
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A Very Sexy Baby posted:The only thing dumb I remember Sirtis being is really really defensive of the Queen. Someone posted a photoshop of her in a Starfleet uniform and Sirtis was like THAT'S NOT FUNNY AT ALL. Wonder how close we got to the timeline where Colm Meaney posts all those Irish partying gifs when the Queen dies and Sirtis's reaction. Also on a side note if the King of Jordan can wear a starfleet uniform then so could other monarchs 
Angry_Ed fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Jan 18, 2023 |
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Jan 18, 2023 03:29
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HD DAD posted:Manny Coto also turned out to be a massive chud. I vaguely remember him tearing into Linda Park online sometime after Trump won. The guy who was executive producer and writer for 24 is a chud? I am shocked, shocked!
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Jan 18, 2023 03:37
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Angry Salami posted:The guy who was executive producer and writer for 24 is a chud? I am shocked, shocked! The weirdest element of that whole thing was he became good friends with Brannon Braga and got him a job on 24 after his other post-Enterprise TV gigs all bombed.
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Jan 18, 2023 03:58
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Angry Salami posted:The guy who was executive producer and writer for 24 is a chud? I am shocked, shocked! In a weird way I kind of miss 24. I remember that when it first came I kind of misunderstand the premise and thought each day/season would be part of a full week of them. So I figured the opening of Season 7 would have been: Right now. Aliens have invaded Los Angeles. My wife and daughter have been replaced by robot clones. And there's a giant spider, with the face of Richard Nixon, grinning at me from across the room. I'm Federal Agent Jack Bauer. And I've done too much speed this week.
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Jan 18, 2023 04:14
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Angry_Ed posted:Wonder how close we got to the timeline where Colm Meany posts all those Irish partying gifs when the Queen dies and Sirtis's reaction. Wait did Colm Meany actually do that because that rules.
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Jan 18, 2023 04:17
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Hollismason posted:Wait did Colm Meany actually do that because that rules. Probably not but I can dream of Sirtis getting pissy with him on Twitter and Meany responding with a live song version of Come Out Ye Black and Tans
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Jan 18, 2023 04:23
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As far as I know, Colm Meaney did not do that, no
Angry_Ed fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Jan 18, 2023 |
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Jan 18, 2023 04:30
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Meaney. Just like it's Armin Shimerman, not Shimmerman. Just like it's Jeffrey Combs, not Jeffery Coombs or whatever. Everyone posted:In a weird way I kind of miss 24. I remember that when it first came I kind of misunderstand the premise and thought each day/season would be part of a full week of them. So I figured the opening of Season 7 would have been: The first 13 episodes of the first season of 24 are absolutely incredible television. Then the back 11 episodes got ordered after it was a surprise hit, and the writing began to really flail until they introduced Dennis Hopper snarling "JEK BOWERRRR." The second season was also excellent up to a point. And then everything afterwards just got gradually more and more insane, starting with Jack detoxing from heroin addiction in the span of 30 minutes. I remember when Coto was announced as a producer and everyone was excited, saying, "Oh, poo poo, the guy behind Enterprise Season 4 is running 24 now? Fuckin' A!" And then his episodes started airing and everyone went, "Oh. ... oh."
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Jan 18, 2023 04:41
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Like the Fast & Furious movies, 24 hit its peak with the fifth go-around because it was just the right mix of thrilling and insane. C'mon, "The weasely Nixon expy who's been flapping and flailing like a beached fish with each new crisis is actually the cold-blooded mastermind behind them all and had several beloved characters assassinated" was such a  reveal, and it then led to the end of the season being "Jack Bauer versus the President of the United States".It was then followed by the season with Siddig when they decided to write several episodes well in advance so they could set up events that would pay off weeks later rather than just making things up on the fly, and it worked! The first six episodes of season 6 were amazing. Then the train ran out of track and belly-flopped straight into a giant pool of poo poo. Small Strange Bird fucked around with this message at 09:03 on Jan 18, 2023 |
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Jan 18, 2023 08:59
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Payndz posted:Jack Bauer versus the President of the United States". A media moment only topped by Black Dynamite versus Richard Nixon in a nunchaku duel. Seriously, watch Black Dynamite. Few movies, or cartoon adaptions of movies, have been made with more love for their source material. e. quote:Right now. I'm so there for that.
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Jan 18, 2023 09:11
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mllaneza posted:A media moment only topped by Black Dynamite versus Richard Nixon in a nunchaku duel. "ha ha! I threw that poo poo before I came in the room!" is still one of the funniest loving things I've ever laughed at in a movie, along with the whole pimp meeting. Jesus christ that film was incredible.
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Jan 18, 2023 09:54
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The jon bois vid on 24 is great
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Jan 18, 2023 11:18
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ad astra per hasperat
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Jan 18, 2023 11:22
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Tunicate posted:The jon bois vid on 24 is great The Sim City 2000 cell phone ringtone joke is majestic. That whole video is so good. Poor Jack just can’t win; the universe has seen to it.
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Jan 18, 2023 11:23
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Timby posted:A Romulan-made clone successfully executed a coup, overthrowing the Romulan government, and took a ship crewed by Remans to try and nuke Earth. Romulans tried to stop him. That only means the Federation shouldn't retaliateforShinzon's attack. It doesn'taddress the possibilityof future attacks of this sort. The Romulan government is unstable and therefore cannot be expected to keep its promises. Although the Federation shoul
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Jan 18, 2023 14:38
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I don't think there's any tried and true formula to whether you can still enjoy a thing when someone with bad views was involved in it. It depends on lots of variables. The Cosby Show is one of the most severe examples because he's front and center all the time, the main character, the brains of it, the "good guy", and it's hard to reconcile that with the long pattern of premeditated awful things he did. Whereas if he were a villain in a movie I would find that much easier to deal with. I don't think either one of these would be more morally correct on the viewer's part honestly. You could make a case for it, like he probably gets more money from his own show so that makes it worse, but it's hard to sort that out accurately a lot of the time. And truthfully whatever you do is going to be a drop in the ocean. There's a lot of great art that isn't really about the artist in that way. If it's a really well-told story then it can transcend the beliefs or other issues with whoever made it. But you also can't really control what makes you uncomfortable, so sometimes you just can't enjoy something anymore. I don't think that means everyone who can still enjoy it is some kind of traitor though. Or that people who can't are just the woke cancel mob or whatever.
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Jan 18, 2023 15:35
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Angry_Ed posted:As far as I know, Colm Meany did not do that, no
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Jan 18, 2023 15:40
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Sir Lemming posted:I don't think there's any tried and true formula to whether you can still enjoy a thing when someone with bad views was involved in it. It depends on lots of variables. I can't imagine any mass media exists that didn't involve somebody with bad views, considering the on-screen talent are just the tip of the iceberg, even ignoring all the capitalists at the top of the hierarchy.
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Jan 18, 2023 16:18
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Yeah it's like people who hate Tesla because Elon Musk is some of uniquely malicious rich guy. Car company execs have, throughout history, been among the worst human beings in existence, they just have better sense than to tweet insane things into the aether. Henry Ford was a literal Nazi! Separating the art from the artist is ultimately a personal decision, I don't begrudge any trans person who can't stand even a mention of HP because of all the attendant transphobic poo poo involved with the creator. I also don't begrudge anyone who likes HP because they grew up with it and whoops turns out the author is a bigot. I can watch Chinatown no problem, but I can't watch the Cosby show or Louie, what's the difference? I dunno, but since personal media consumption is extraordinarily low stakes I don't think it's worth fighting about. Your personal habits have going to have no effect on what ultimately happens, JK Rowling isn't going to notice the $.03 in royalties she's losing because you aren't buying some piece of merchandise. I guess the concern is that these worldviews are so integral to their every thought that they are inseparably grafted onto the art itself and subliminal or subconscious cues of bigotry seep in and poison the consumers mind, though I don't find that to be terribly compelling. What's true right now is that every single person on earth loves some movie, show, book, or comic that was written by someone who is an absolute monster who just never got caught or outed, so either that's happening all the time or it isn't how it works. Now that we have social media and can be exposed to the thoughts of our favorite artists and celebrities we are finding out that many of them suck, as most people do. You're never supposed to meet your heroes but we're constantly meeting them and reading their opinions on compact fluorescent lightbulbs and how they are an Albanian conspiracy. If twitter had been around in the 50s none of those beat writers would be canonical. William Burroughs murdered his wife and played it off as a William Tell thing gone wrong - I imagine that wouldn't have been swept under the rug. What's also undeniably true is that we want the creators of the things we like to be the type of people we like - I think that's the case no matter where your politics are - so it's always going to be challenge, both to separate art from the artist and even to decide to what extent to separate them and even how that changes from creator to creator and piece to piece. But ultimately it's a personal one and I don't think it's a moral statement on the type of character a person has. (Obviously this doesn't hold true for intentionally bigoted material. If someone likes the Turner Diaries that's definitely a moral statement on the type of character the person has). I mean we all love Star Trek and Gene was an inveterate sexist and womanizer.
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Jan 18, 2023 17:23
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Gonz posted:The Sim City 2000 cell phone ringtone joke is majestic. That whole video is so good. Poor Jack just can’t win; the universe has seen to it. I have had the CTU desk phone ringtone on my phone for so long now that it's long since been unmoored from any connection to 24 in my brain and it's now just "Oh, my phone is ringing, must be another spam caller."
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Jan 18, 2023 17:49
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I know you guys must have gone over these shows frame by fame. Does Grand Nagus Zek ever use the word "inconceivable"?
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Jan 18, 2023 18:26
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Gonz posted:The Sim City 2000 cell phone ringtone joke is majestic. That whole video is so good. Poor Jack just can’t win; the universe has seen to it. "You're such a nerd...corpse." The Calvin and Hobbes comic that provides the title of that video is so loving dark, and 10,000% would not fly these days. It's a great comic to be clear, but holy poo poo is it grim these days. Ah, hell. Here's a link in the off-chance there's a nerd ITT that hasn't heard the gospel of Jon Bois: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_P52G4Kyq5M
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Jan 18, 2023 19:23
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Timby posted:Meaney. Thanks for that, phoneposting caused me to mess that up, multiple times 
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Jan 18, 2023 19:33
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