|
Feedback/rules discussion thread for the new year up here https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4020879
|
#
?
Dec 31, 2022 23:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 16:59 |
|
|
Getting a few weeks into VITA. Been pretty slow. Hope I can adjust myself into being able to be of use (and get the hiring into full time)
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2023 00:38
|
|
|
Covok posted:My family and I had a laugh today. Local news was reporting on the accounting shortage. They said tons of millenials and Gen X are leaving the accounting industry for finance or tech for better hours and pay. And even people with promising accounting degrees don't want to do the job anymore. i just left a small practice after a year of tax and audit. i passed the CPA exam back in 09 but have been in industry the whole time. public was interesting and I really enjoy the tax side of it, but my bosses were largely absentee/retiring and i was training myself up on everything. they couldn't cover a CoL increase and I told them this going into it last year so kept my word and left. in addition to myself we lost our newest accountant as well as one of our seniors. on my final day another accountant simply walked out. almost 50% of our headcount gone going into tax season. honestly if they had taken the time to show me more of the work and maybe made it a halfway fun place to work i would have stayed but jfc i can't care more about this poo poo than my bosses do. it sucks. the jobs are paying...the same as they were in 2017 it feels like? am I wrong? i guess i kind of harbored this modest hope that working as an accountant would let me afford a home but after the pandemic rocked my industry work it's been tough finding a functional fit (you know...where the workplace isn't a complete shitshow and I can take more than a long weekend off at a time). this past year in public has helped me brush up a lot on tax law and FS prep across different industries which was nice. i also had the joy of learning both ProSystem Fx and UltraTax so that lives in my brain for now. I'm going to keep hunting around but I'm not especially motivated....it just feels like a weird and disappointing ecosystem right now. re: the shortage i can definitely feel it right now. i'm spammed daily with accounting roles but nothing looks especially appetizing (i.e., economically viable) so it's a weird spot. bosses at the practice i was with even dropped the "nobody wants to work anymore" line which was pretty laughable. i explained to him that CPA licensure pays a $5k bonus and Denver RTD is paying bus drivers a $4k bonus...plus they get better benefits, better scheduling, better time off, better retirement, and i would probably even qualify for low-income housing! last the partner told me they are picking up some offshored staff out of India that they would supervise remotely. my basic understanding is that a lot of the industry is going this route with varying degrees of success. i'm going to turn an eye back toward industry as i gained some confidence leaving last week given that pay rates are improving but maybe I'll just wait tables instead for a bit and watch this play out. how unrealistic/dumb/entitled is my take at the moment? I think i've just had some bad luck but also the numbers aren't really lining up in a pleasing fashion as far as "having a job as an accountant" goes. Ungratek posted:Public firms are definitely still hiring - there’s a severe shortage of staff i'm doing my part...? 19 o'clock fucked around with this message at 01:48 on Jan 19, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2023 21:14
|
|
|
My bet is the partners have no loving clue how to show you because they have never had to code someone's financials into whatever shitass practice.manager you're using. They can help you with accounting fundamentals but they are unlikely to be able to sit with you and guide you through the process. In small firms this is exacerbated because of the limited resources and need to churn through billable work, the people who do know can scarcely spare the time to sit with you, and everyone else is just mashing the keyboard to get to the end so they can put that poo poo in for review
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 01:02
|
|
|
It's very funny to me because when I was changing careers at 32 and trying to get in at literally any public accounting firm, the partners looked like they wanted to vomit at the sight of someone over 25 trying to become a staff.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 02:11
|
|
|
Gabriel Grub posted:It's very funny to me because when I was changing careers at 32 and trying to get in at literally any public accounting firm, the partners looked like they wanted to vomit at the sight of someone over 25 trying to become a staff. that was the first thing i brought up when we talked. it sounds like these are tough times for some places lol regardless, I don't mean to focus on why I left but I'm more interested in how people feel about the jobs/job market right now? I'm wondering if it's even worth trying to stay in the profession but also I'm seeing signs of improvement.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 02:51
|
|
|
Gabriel Grub posted:It's very funny to me because when I was changing careers at 32 and trying to get in at literally any public accounting firm, the partners looked like they wanted to vomit at the sight of someone over 25 trying to become a staff. I started my career in public accounting at 32 after changing careers. Some places didn’t look at me but others did. I did laugh at Deloitte acting like I had leprosy during my interview.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 02:53
|
|
|
19 o'clock posted:that was the first thing i brought up when we talked. it sounds like these are tough times for some places lol Ask them who they plan to sell out to when the time to retire comes and report back on what emotions you see in their eyes. The very last place I interviewed at I had finished all my studies with straight As, had passed FAR, and was about to take and pass REG. It was down to me and a fresh grad with shaky English, and they went with the fresh grad. Maybe smart for them in the end. Perhaps they saw the tight labor market coming and knew they'd need maximum leverage over every new staff they hired. Oh, and I had already been working in industry for 3 years, so maybe that hurt me. Maybe industry to public just is never done, but I had to eat and entry level corporate jobs are less picky about people if they know debits and credits. Gabriel Grub fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Jan 19, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 03:17
|
|
|
Starting salaries aren't great, but your salary increases quickly as you move up, at least in my experience. You can definitely grind your way to a comfortable life in accounting.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 05:27
|
|
|
19 o'clock posted:that was the first thing i brought up when we talked. it sounds like these are tough times for some places lol Any firm with 50% annual turnover is not a well-run firm, and I would not base my opinion of the entire industry based on that. As you describe, the partners are on cruise control to retirement and they are being penny wise and pound foolish. Also, now is not the time of the year when good firms are typically hiring, so I’m not surprised that you can’t find any good openings.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 05:42
|
|
|
PatMarshall posted:Starting salaries aren't great, but your salary increases quickly as you move up, at least in my experience. You can definitely grind your way to a comfortable life in accounting. The problem is that this is true for people with an accounting education even if they don't go through the public firm busy season BS. In fact, you don't have to specifically go into accounting at all. Missing Donut posted:Any firm with 50% annual turnover is not a well-run firm, and I would not base my opinion of the entire industry based on that. I follow accounting Twitter and listen to accounting podcasts and half of what they talk about is no one going into accounting, and especially not into public. It's not an individual firm problem, it's endemic to the profession.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 06:03
|
|
|
Missing Donut posted:Any firm with 50% annual turnover is not a well-run firm, and I would not base my opinion of the entire industry based on that. As you describe, the partners are on cruise control to retirement and they are being penny wise and pound foolish. the walkout by a fellow staff on my last day really hit it home that maybe we're all seeing the writing on the wall. i'm happy for the skillset boost at least. I haven't even really begun looking yet. i'm keeping and eye out and sporadically applying to jobs that really stand out. i have some supplementary income that takes the edge off in the meantime. Gabriel Grub posted:The problem is that this is true for people with an accounting education even if they don't go through the public firm busy season BS. In fact, you don't have to specifically go into accounting at all. it's loving dire haha. the r/accounting and r/taxpros subreddits have routine discussions about how the industry is a little mangled and depressing. as others have pointed out there's lots of opportunity but it's going to take some shopping around.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 06:18
|
|
|
Considering there has been a lot of talk about automating tax work, it's not surprising fewer people are choosing that path. Going commercial opens up opportunities to do a range of stuff. Staying public means being limited to tax work and I think the barrier to getting out of tax will grow over time as those skills are devalued and increased focus on using data and decision making is emphasised over compliance. I guess there's audit as well, which is valuable work for many organisations internally.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 06:22
|
|
|
When I got my first job at firm fresh out of uni in 2017 they were saying we might be among the last human accountants they hire because computer strong lmao
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 06:26
|
|
|
I do international tax, anything that can be automated would be welcome, as its the least interesting part of my work. I don't particularly see the need to get out of tax. I make a lot of money doing tax planning and compliance and I enjoy my work.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 06:28
|
|
|
I just don't think the automated future is that close for US tax. Garbage in, garbage out and if you've seen the average small business owners records then you know its garbage in. Not to mention that, to my knowledge, the IRS's computer systems are ancient and inefficient.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 06:31
|
|
|
Janitor Ludwich IV posted:When I got my first job at firm fresh out of uni in 2017 they were saying we might be among the last human accountants they hire because computer strong lmao They've been telling young accountants this since the first electronic spreadsheet was invented in the 1970s.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 06:34
|
|
|
Public accounting is an obvious pyramid scheme, the payoff is to go into debt in 10-20 years to buy out a firm and then make a lot of money but we’re facing the end of our civilization in 15-25 years so you can see why recent grads aren’t that interested in “paying their dues”.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 06:35
|
|
|
19 o'clock posted:i'm doing my part...? The partners thank you for your dedication. Please accept this $10 target gift card as a token of their sincere appreciation Janitor Ludwich IV posted:When I got my first job at firm fresh out of uni in 2017 they were saying we might be among the last human accountants they hire because computer strong lmao They've been saying this for years longer than that and it has been hilariously bullshit the entire time. It's all just a scam to make consultants some money and get old partners who don't know any better to get a tingle at their quarterly conference. They still haven't figured out a way to reliably train people at their 'resource centers' in India and the Philippines from the last consultant scam they bought into. They always just completely forget that accountancy is an apprenticeship profession when they fantasize about eliminating staff in pursuit of a year to year margin bump.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 06:44
|
|
|
Gabriel Grub posted:They've been telling young accountants this since the first electronic spreadsheet was invented in the 1970s. Good Citizen posted:The partners thank you for your dedication. Please accept this $10 target gift card as a token of their sincere appreciation lol at this being a consistent dream. I'd say the easiest path to actually get their wish for tax returns to be automated would be the government just pre-filling everything for you but that will never happen of course. Maybe everyone is gonna be alright until the lights go out.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 07:08
|
|
|
Janitor Ludwich IV posted:I'd say the easiest path to actually get their wish for tax returns to be automated would be the government just pre-filling everything for you but that will never happen of course. Maybe everyone is gonna be alright until the lights go out. Well personal tax is a completely different situation from audit, corporate accounting, or corporate tax. Personal tax at the low-to-mid levels would be almost completely eliminated as a career path if Intuit stopped lobbying the government to prevent them from automating the process. I mean there'd still be plenty of space for tax accountants to get creative to keep rich people from paying taxes, but that'd be about it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 07:40
|
|
|
The best use case I've heard for AI so far is when your client sends you another dumbass email asking for the same documents you've already sent them before, the AI pulls the docs and composes a reply. But you still have to review it before sending to make sure it didn't pull the documents for someone else. Another good one is automated tax planning, which is already being rolled out.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 07:41
|
|
|
Gabriel Grub posted:I follow accounting Twitter and listen to accounting podcasts and half of what they talk about is no one going into accounting, and especially not into public. It's not an individual firm problem, it's endemic to the profession. Well, yeah, our profession hosed around and found out. We knew about the demographic crisis for 15 years and (as a profession) we did nothing about it. For some inexplicable reason Barry Melancon hasn't been fired. That said, the better-run firms are surviving this so far. They raised pay, improved working conditions, fired unprofitable clients, etc. The badly-run ones are the ones in trouble. A firm with 50% turnover or a firm scrambling to hire in mid-January can't exactly blame the profession as a whole for their issues. pseudanonymous posted:Public accounting is an obvious pyramid scheme, the payoff is to go into debt in 10-20 years to buy out a firm and then make a lot of money but we’re facing the end of our civilization in 15-25 years so you can see why recent grads aren’t that interested in “paying their dues”. It used to be that way, but things have changed. At least at the small firm level, unless you're looking for insane levels of growth immediately, I don't see much benefit in buying firms right now.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 07:45
|
|
|
It's worth noting that the incredible short sightedness of partners and other profession leaders is huge boon to job seekers right this moment if you're at the mid level of the career right now. I recently quit my job for basically the exact same job with a better title and almost 3x the pay once you factor in equity compensation and it rules. Companies are so desperate
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 07:54
|
|
|
Well that is good news for me to hear. If this current VITA to in house hiring doesn't happen I guess I got another thing going for me. Speaking of which I feel like I'm getting more comfortable talking with other prospective clients. So far I have yet to deal with anyone ranting and raving on the phone like I just damned their entire bloodline. Hopefully when that happens I can handle it like an adult instead of lashing out.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 08:47
|
|
|
Good Citizen posted:It's worth noting that the incredible short sightedness of partners and other profession leaders is huge boon to job seekers right this moment if you're at the mid level of the career right now. I recently quit my job for basically the exact same job with a better title and almost 3x the pay once you factor in equity compensation and it rules. Companies are so desperate This is definitely true, although I’m in Canada where it’s even worse. Pre-COVID starting salaries in major metros we’re 37-45k with no OT or bonus and has been there since around 2003 (although they paid OT at that time). Listening to the partners at various firms talk about staffing is hilarious - 😀“nobody wants to pay work in accounting” 🙄 “because it requires a degree and your starting wage is competitive with McDonalds once you factor in OT and doesn’t become livable until you’re at manager or above” 😀 “but [a very small number of them] could become partners and make a lot of money someday and most of our staff live with their parents anyway!” 😀 “…..” This was made way worse with COVID where everyone in industry saw that wages were going up and poached everyone good from public practice. Neither of my prior firms has a single person from my cohort left. Average raise for my social circle was about 60% on leaving (most were managed/SM). Some got almost 100%…
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 19:45
|
|
|
Good Citizen posted:It's worth noting that the incredible short sightedness of partners and other profession leaders is huge boon to job seekers right this moment if you're at the mid level of the career right now. I recently quit my job for basically the exact same job with a better title and almost 3x the pay once you factor in equity compensation and it rules. Companies are so desperate Agreed. Im at about the 10 year career mark. I switched jobs about 15 months ago for a drat near 50% pay increase. New company has turned out to be an absolute poo poo show so four weeks ago I contacted a recruiter and just signed an offer letter this week. I was worried about base comp being less because I live in a mid to low market type of town and there just aren't that many jobs within this pay bracket. But I was willing to take a pay cut just to work somewhere else. Instead I got the exact same salary and bonus plus equity compensation and a company car. So yeah, if you're in industry and past that entry level mark, now's a good time to see what you can negotiate.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 20:15
|
|
|
I have a friend getting paid on 1099, presumably because their boss is a lazy cheapskate, and mentioned they wanted to form a corporation(like an LLC or S) to better be able to deal with taxes does this actually work? California, for reference
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 22:05
|
|
|
That sounds suspicious not gonna lie.
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 22:29
|
|
|
Jaxyon posted:I have a friend getting paid on 1099, presumably because their boss is a lazy cheapskate, and mentioned they wanted to form a corporation(like an LLC or S) to better be able to deal with taxes They need to rectify having a boss and getting paid on a 1099 since it should be one way or the other. LLC wouldn’t do poo poo and probably would be disregarded. S Corp could help but doubt they’re making enough to justify the compliance cost if they’re essentially a misclassified employee
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 23:24
|
|
|
Jaxyon posted:I have a friend getting paid on 1099, presumably because their boss is a lazy cheapskate, and mentioned they wanted to form a corporation(like an LLC or S) to better be able to deal with taxes There are rules that determine whether someone should be an independent contractor or employee, including whether they control their own schedule, way they approach their job, where they work etc etc. Go google that stuff. If you are an independent contractor you can form an LLC or corporation for yourself and anyone paying you for your services would pay the entity. An LLC will be taxed the same as if you had not formed an entity, it's just on a Schedule C where you report your gross income and any of your ordinary and reasonable expenses. Your net profit is subject to income taxes and self-employment taxes. If you form an S Corporation you report that same gross income and expenses on a separate tax return and then the net income is passed to your personal return where it is only subject to income taxes. If you form an S Corporation the IRS requires you to take a reasonable salary for your profession and experience. Meaning you would have to file payroll tax returns quarterly where you would be subject to employment taxes. So there are scenarios where it is both a legitimate choice and will save taxes. If your buddy is getting paid $400 a week because his boss is a jackass and he's probably going to quit in 3 months then his situation is not that scenario. Fake edit: Also in CA Corporations need to pay at least $800 a year in franchise tax
|
|
#
?
Jan 19, 2023 23:54
|
|
|
Ungratek posted:They need to rectify having a boss and getting paid on a 1099 since it should be one way or the other. Should be but it's a tiny business (under 5 employees) so i'm guessing this is just tax fuckery on the part o the owner Epi Lepi posted:There are rules that determine whether someone should be an independent contractor or employee, including whether they control their own schedule, way they approach their job, where they work etc etc. Go google that stuff. Thanks for all of that and yah that job is on the outs. I believe the advantages were that he could also do his side hobby business and claim a ton of stuff as expenses so that he overall tax paid would be lower
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2023 01:08
|
|
|
untzthatshit posted:Agreed. Im at about the 10 year career mark. I switched jobs about 15 months ago for a drat near 50% pay increase. New company has turned out to be an absolute poo poo show so four weeks ago I contacted a recruiter and just signed an offer letter this week. I'm in a similar spot, to be honest. For those who might have forgotten, I left my public accounting job for industry about 5 months ago. The new company has been rough. My bosses keep putting the hands in the company bank account and causing problems and my direct supervisor who I share an office with is a 70 year old racist who keeps saying poo poo that just isn't okay and the owners have given up on correcting him. He's basically a walking microaggression and I wouldn't be shocked if he's saying slurs that I just can't recognize because they're so old time-y. I got a 50% raise with strict 9-5 M-F and a lot of benefits to taking the job, but these things are ticking me off. Like the owner's quick tempers. They never get mad at me, but they do like to beat up on my direct supervisor. Which, on one hand, gently caress the guy, he's an old racist. On the other hand, if they do that to the only other accountant in the office, what will they do to me when this guy retires. After I get 12 months in, I'll start giving things a look around. Edit: To be honest, I wish I could say the racism problem was a new thing. My old boss at the tax firm wouldn't let me hire a black woman once because "I hired one of those people once and it didn't work out" and once commented on an asian coworker's eyes in a very bad way, and my coworker there made some pretty disparaging remarks about Indians. I swear, it sucks living in Long Island. It's one of the big reasons why I left that place. It's worse here because, until we move offices, I share an office with the guy and have to hear him run his gums. The other two instances involved 1) someone permanently remote and 2) in a different cubicle. Similarly, HR didn't do anything about it there ("oh, maybe she didn't mean it that way"; "you're taking things too seriously") so it isn't like being at a big company helped, but it seems small companies suck to in that regard (not that I'm surprised). Covok fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Jan 20, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2023 01:50
|
|
|
Jaxyon posted:I believe the advantages were that he could also do his side hobby business and claim a ton of stuff as expenses so that he overall tax paid would be lower This is just tax evasion and nothing about doing it through an LLC makes it legal, regardless of what he's seen on TikTok.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2023 02:36
|
|
|
Gabriel Grub posted:This is just tax evasion and nothing about doing it through an LLC makes it legal, regardless of what he's seen on TikTok. More or less what I thought also having a poo poo job pay your llc seems janky
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2023 08:04
|
|
|
Trying to set up a best way to get paid by this terrible job is a real “missing the forest for the trees” situation. I understand wanting to maximize net earnings but it’s not the actual step to take.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2023 13:24
|
|
|
Last year I got my license & got some equity in this tiny firm (the only firm I've ever known) What I've learned is I hate being someone's boss Thinking in 5-10 years I'm going to shutter/sell this biz and just open Actually Good Bookkeeping LLC - I see so many trash bookkeepers in the area and I'm constantly fixing their ish, half of them say they "just don't do" payroll entries (bc they dont understand them), no idea how to do simple journals like depreciation or asset disposal or adjusting loan pmts to split principal/interest.... just like the most basic things But I love bookkeeping, it's like my favorite thing to do, the idea of just having a ton of books that I do monthly and then handing off for tax prep to some other poor fool sounds idyllic If I just kept our currently hourly rate on bookkeeping I'd make plenty I think......... am I crazy? Should I follow my dream of being BOOKKEEPER WITH AN UNNECESSARY LICENSE NO I WONT DO YOUR TAXES or is this a bad idea and I'm missing some obvious flaw
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2023 19:40
|
|
|
black.lion posted:Last year I got my license & got some equity in this tiny firm (the only firm I've ever known) you're not crazy. my big takeaway from public was "i should start a bookkeeping business and dominate the competition" for the same reasons you listed. lots of simple stuff being missed. more importantly: it sounds like accountants are in short supply right now. probably should charge more than your current bookkeeping rate tbh
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2023 20:06
|
|
|
black.lion posted:Last year I got my license & got some equity in this tiny firm (the only firm I've ever known) I learned this year that people can pay Intuit $200 a month on top of their Quickbooks Online subscription to have a dedicated remote bookkeeper help them with their books. The client is allotted like an hour a month or half hour a week or something of conversation time to go over everything. So if you really don't want to work for yourself maybe you can get in on that gig.
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2023 20:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 16:59 |
|
|
How hard is it for y'all to hang out a shingle? Am I naive to think all you need is a computer and some software?
|
|
#
?
Jan 20, 2023 20:54
|
|
