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Nessus posted:Acknowledging this fact would cruelly deprive writers of the opportunity to write about hard beings making hard decisions about scarce resources! You can still do that by making up fake scarce resources, like dilithium. It's just jarring when they're desperate to find like, water or deuterium, two of the most common substances in the universe. At least to me, a dork who can't let it go.
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Jan 19, 2023 23:35
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Grand Fromage posted:You can still do that by making up fake scarce resources, like dilithium. It's just jarring when they're desperate to find like, water or deuterium, two of the most common substances in the universe.
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Jan 19, 2023 23:40
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Nessus posted:Acknowledging this fact would cruelly deprive writers of the opportunity to write about hard beings making hard decisions about scarce resources! Ever since TOS, they've tried balancing "post-scarcity economy" and "plot being driven by the Federation needing X" and loving it up. I'm not talking by just dilithium either - one of the plot resources was "zenite gas" that was only on this single planet, and the Enterprise couldn't get the zenite gas because the planet was in the middle of the slave revolt. Except the Federation really needed the resource because it was the only cure to a plague on a *different* planet...
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Jan 19, 2023 23:45
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Grand Fromage posted:You can still do that by making up fake scarce resources, like dilithium. It's just jarring when they're desperate to find like, water or deuterium, two of the most common substances in the universe. "We continue to have great trouble obtaining... the unobtainium. The tall blue folks are just mean." But yeah. "How will will get more of these resources like water and sunlight? We should discuss this in detail while we eat prime rib and lobster thermidor which we'll get by pushing buttons on this replicator."
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Jan 19, 2023 23:50
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Star Trek was never really intended to be fully post-scarcity, especially in the original series. Early TNG introduced a lot more weird utopian concepts, most of which were walked back with the need for reasons for stories to have drama relating to existing in a physical world with physical limits. And of course, regardless of conditions within the Federation, if anybody is going to have resource issues, it's Bajor when it was fresh from the occupation. I think there's a lot of other ways they could've written the plot of a guy whose farm is in the way of some important public works project and who will die if he stays put though. Like maybe if there's some old lakebed that went dry after Cardassians hosed with a river and restoring the ecosystem and creating a new irrigation system requires restoring the lake. Or maybe he's on top of an important dimaterium deposit, I dunno. Tom Guycot posted:It always seemed really loving strange to me they had a lush livable moon around their planet, and the big brain idea is to destroy it basically to generate power? Like what they gently caress, having a moon like that must be far more valuable than a power plant. Look it's a science fiction science thing. The reasons are very technical and you as a layman from a more primitive society wouldn't understand. Also we will never mention any of the details from this episode ever again, stop asking. The idea might've been some kind of reference to whatever Klingons were doing with their moon for power when it went Chernobyl. God knows how you get power out of a moon, and it's a bit weird to have power generation on a celestial body that can't be attached by wire to anything else, so presumably there's regular ferries of like batteries from the moon to the planet. Or some kind of weird laser energy transfers that they hope nothing's in the way of.
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Jan 20, 2023 00:25
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Station log. Stardate 46844.3. With the help of the Federation, Bajor is about to commence its first large-scale energy transfer, the tapping of the molten core of its fifth moon, Jeraddo. Basically incredibly enormous geothermal. Also it's never really been said onscreen but it's always been kinda implied that there's planetary scale remote power transfer in Trek, if I recall. Particularly in TVH, the probe cut Earth off from space-based power and forced them onto planetary reserves (We've seen that kind of thing on a smaller scale with starships delivering power to stuff on the surface via power transfer beams quite a few times) MikeJF fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Jan 20, 2023 |
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Jan 20, 2023 00:35
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So after a long stretch of not great Star Trek including the very melodramatic "Dramatis Personae", got two good ones. "Duet" was incredibly strong and emotionally compelling and it had a reactive mystery that enhanced the story with every turn. It got me tearing by the end. "Timescape" is a great timey TNG episode, although Troi and Picard making fun of those lecturers ruined their characters for me.
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Jan 20, 2023 01:27
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SlothfulCobra posted:Star Trek was never really intended to be fully post-scarcity, especially in the original series. Early TNG introduced a lot more weird utopian concepts, most of which were walked back with the need for reasons for stories to have drama relating to existing in a physical world with physical limits. I mean even if they didn't specifically mention that, just with how large TNG mentions the federation is and their level of technology, the federation would have to be pretty inept not to be able to gather as much raw resources as they need. But most sci-fi writers are really crappy at scale and numbers for whatever reasons. see all the "this ENORMOUS empire spans SIXTEEN galaxies and has a HUGE population of ONE HUNDRED BILLION PEOPLE!!!!!!." The Star trek writers that made a fake scales for stuff like how much memory computers can store, and how explody things like photon torpedoes are made very smart choices. If your sci fi story isn't exploring those sort of details better to fudge it with a made up scale and move on quickly.
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Jan 20, 2023 01:47
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It's right that TOS didn't have the post-scarcity concept yet, but for things like water it's literally impossible to have an interstellar civilization that is lacking in it. It is loving everywhere. Even if somehow you're in a star system without water (which I can't imagine existing but sake of argument), just go to another one. Honestly though, as much as we like to rag on Trek's inconsistencies it's kind of amazing how much of it is consistent given the sheer amount of Trek that's been made and the number of people who've worked on it.
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Jan 20, 2023 02:05
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MikeJF posted:Also it's never really been said onscreen but it's always been kinda implied that there's planetary scale remote power transfer in Trek, if I recall. Particularly in TVH, the probe cut Earth off from space-based power and forced them onto planetary reserves (We've seen that kind of thing on a smaller scale with starships delivering power to stuff on the surface via power transfer beams quite a few times) Got to be careful with those power transfer beams, candle ghosts can travel on them.
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Jan 20, 2023 02:20
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I'll go to bat for Scorpion being one of the better two parter Star Trek episodes.
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Jan 20, 2023 03:38
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John Wick of Dogs posted:space heaters 
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Jan 20, 2023 03:44
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Hollismason posted:I'll go to bat for Scorpion being one of the better two parter Star Trek episodes. Scorpion, Dark Frontier and Year of Hell. Voyager had an outsizded number of banger two-parts for how mid it was over all.
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Jan 20, 2023 03:51
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Equinox too. And I liked Future's End though I wouldn't argue it's great. By early Voyager standards it's pretty solid though. E: Killing Game also good. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Jan 20, 2023 |
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Jan 20, 2023 04:10
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Grand Fromage posted:Equinox too. And I liked Future's End though I wouldn't argue it's great. Oh god yeah I forgot about Equinox. Also great. Equinox is about as close as Voyager gets to truly being Deep Space Nine's equal in terms of character work.
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Jan 20, 2023 04:14
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Yea I mean as much as I love TNG and DS9 , I'd honestly rather rewatch Voyager episodes than Season 1 of TNG.
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Jan 20, 2023 04:22
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I hated Voyager when it came out and dropped it relatively early but watching it more recently I really appreciate it, good stuff.
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Jan 20, 2023 04:38
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Lincoln posted:I need to know the political affiliations of the actors in a show so I can decide whether I like the show or not. Since you have an SA account, I'm sure you don't live under an actual rock and have figured out over the last few years that "politics" is literally "which people do we consider to be people." If somebody in something I enjoy feels that rather a lot of people aren't, it will affect my enjoyment of their work and it should affect yours too. No Dignity posted:We really do not need to Your Fav Is Problematic our 90s TV shows
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Jan 20, 2023 04:46
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Wait until you hear who founded these forums
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Jan 20, 2023 04:47
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You mean that guy who beat the poo poo out of a bunch of women and then premeditatedly spent himself into insolvency before killing himself specifically to make sure his ex-wives and children would never see a cent in child support and alimony from either him or his estate? Love using his website though, this place rules.
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Jan 20, 2023 04:50
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Seriously, the rest of us have moved on. Go find some other hill to die on already.
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Jan 20, 2023 04:51
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nine-gear crow posted:Seriously, the rest of us have moved on. Go find some other hill to die on already.
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Jan 20, 2023 04:52
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Its kind of hilarious that Jeri Ryan is such a ridiculously good actor but their on Star Trek. I'm watching The Gift right now and shes fantastic in it.
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Jan 20, 2023 05:01
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LividLiquid posted:I was responding to posts on this very page, dingleberry. How many posts per page are you counting because 2583 and 2584 ≠ 2586.
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Jan 20, 2023 05:01
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Grand Fromage posted:Killing Game also good. Yeah, the Killing Game is underrated. Workforce is good too. actually now that i think about it all the voyager 2 parters are good! TengenNewsEditor fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Jan 20, 2023 |
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Jan 20, 2023 05:18
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nine-gear crow posted:How many posts per page are you counting because 2583 and 2584 ≠ 2586.
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Jan 20, 2023 05:24
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TengenNewsEditor posted:Workforce is good too. This is where we have to part ways.
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Jan 20, 2023 05:33
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Grand Fromage posted:This is where we have to part ways. Workforce is your one-stop shop for seeing them actually use the Emergency Command Hologram, and seeing serious, competent Neelix in an actual Starfleet uniform for a while, but that's... kind of about where the selling points end. I guess it gives Kate Mulgrew and Jeri Ryan a chance to act as characters other than Janeway and Seven for a bit too, but over all it's just kind of there. Killing Game does everything Workforce does but better because it also includes Nazis getting shot, stabbed, and blown the gently caress up on the reg. E: Also that shot of the holodeck bulkhead getting blown up by an actual real explosion so you can see out into multiple decks worth of Voyager's interior is one of those all-time great "  " moments in Star Trek where you get the full sense of just how much of Voyager has been jury rigged by the Hirogen into a giant permadeath VR arcade for them.
nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Jan 20, 2023 |
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Jan 20, 2023 06:45
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LividLiquid posted:gently caress off. LividLiquid posted:What is the acceptable range to respond, then? If I call you a loser fuckface rear end in a top hat and you don't see it for two pages, do I win? You must be a blast at parties. Please tell us what we're allowed to like and what the correct political opinion is on every topic, Commissar.
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Jan 20, 2023 09:25
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Astroman posted:You must be a blast at parties. Please tell us what we're allowed to like and what the correct political opinion is on every topic, Commissar. The correct course of action is to just loving ignore her and post normally... well, as normally as one can in the Star Trek thread--and go about your business and just wait for her to yell at you about it in like 5 pages' time.
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Jan 20, 2023 09:46
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LividLiquid posted:gently caress off. You can ignore someone doing harm when watching a show that was recorded 30 goddamn years ago. That person may as well be dead and probably is
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Jan 20, 2023 11:42
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 Voyager, 23 foot. (Used to hang from the roof of the Star Trek Experience)
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Jan 20, 2023 11:49
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Grand Fromage posted:Equinox too. And I liked Future's End though I wouldn't argue it's great. Equinox Part 1 is great but they really dropped the ball with Part 2, nothing ever really comes from Janeway going Ahab mode and Chakotay bring aghast. Scorpion and Year of Hell are both great two parters though. If I were ever going to give someone a recommended viewing list of Voyager it would probably be just watch seasons 3 - 5, it starts really poorly and drops off hard towards the end but it did kind of find its feet in the middle, Voyager season 5 is actually a pretty good season of Star Trek in general.
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Jan 20, 2023 13:30
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Grand Fromage posted:It's right that TOS didn't have the post-scarcity concept yet, but for things like water it's literally impossible to have an interstellar civilization that is lacking in it. It is loving everywhere. Even if somehow you're in a star system without water (which I can't imagine existing but sake of argument), just go to another one.
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Jan 20, 2023 13:35
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Payndz posted:Speaking of incredibly stupid aliens who have warp flight but can't find frozen water in space (even the Pakleds seem to manage it), I found it funny when watching Prodigy that it's been decided the Kazon are just irredeemable trash whose main business is now finding slave labour for the Diviner (and in Lower Decks are targets for Tom Paris to punch on sight). All that on top of the Borg deciding they're not worth assimilating, even as grunt labour. What a bunch of losers. So the Borg treat the Kazon like https://youtu.be/MXx9S2nDouY?t=353
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Jan 20, 2023 16:50
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Grand Fromage posted:It's right that TOS didn't have the post-scarcity concept yet, but for things like water it's literally impossible to have an interstellar civilization that is lacking in it. It is loving everywhere. Even if somehow you're in a star system without water (which I can't imagine existing but sake of argument), just go to another one. I don't mind if it's for the purpose of a parable or something, or if it's not presented with some bullshit like water. But they want to say water because everyone has anticipated the impending water wars for two generations now, never mind the fact that anyone capable of flying across the solar system has no reason to have any shortage of water at all. Hell, Asimov wrote a short story specifically and exactly addressing this issue. In 1952.
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Jan 20, 2023 17:03
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Kind of interesting that a Diviner can be one who locates water through dowsing Also fairly meaningless Welp, peace
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Jan 20, 2023 17:06
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MikeJF posted:
Oh right, they had those monster-sized models. What did they wind up doing with them after the Experience closed?
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Jan 20, 2023 17:09
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I know one got packed up in a big crate and a guy posed next to it, but I don't remember which one.
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Jan 20, 2023 17:12
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Nessus posted:I don't mind if it's for the purpose of a parable or something, or if it's not presented with some bullshit like water. But they want to say water because everyone has anticipated the impending water wars for two generations now, never mind the fact that anyone capable of flying across the solar system has no reason to have any shortage of water at all. Hell, Asimov wrote a short story specifically and exactly addressing this issue. I want to say you're talking about The Martian Way? (It's been ages since my binge-read of early Asimov stuff so I might have come up with the wrong title.)
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Jan 20, 2023 17:30
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