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Spoilsport. e: Worth a try though, wasn't it.
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Jan 20, 2023 20:38
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Pasteurization needs a lot of gas apparently, people were warning of milk and cheese shortages last year when it looked like we might run out of gas.
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Jan 20, 2023 20:39
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Antigravitas posted:Spoilsport. It was a high quality attempt, I'll give you that
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Jan 20, 2023 20:44
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DTurtle posted:Well, the question is how many Wahlkreise do you have to get rid of so that there are no longer any Überhangmandate necessary. The Ampel should answer with a proposal that's exactly the same, but increases the minimum number of Direktmandate required to the highest number the CSU ever got in their history, +1.
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Jan 20, 2023 21:50
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DTurtle posted:Well, the question is how many Wahlkreise do you have to get rid of so that there are no longer any Überhangmandate necessary. We don't have to get to a point where there's no longer any necessary imo, just make a token fuckin gesture and otherwise leave poo poo alone. Delete 30 Wahlkreise, fertig.
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Jan 20, 2023 23:44
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That was basically the situation up to 2009 and then declared unconstitutional.
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Jan 21, 2023 00:03
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elbkaida posted:Going to the Wannsee-Gedenkstaette and seeing stuff like the original memos where some Beamte were discussing how many extra train carriages would be needed to efficiently transport people into KZs was definitely a moment that made a massive impression on me and how I see the world. Curious that someone would say that "bringt nichts" Learning about Christian Wirth and Aktion Reinhardt was that moment for me.
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Jan 21, 2023 00:13
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DTurtle posted:That was basically the situation up to 2009 and then declared unconstitutional. How did that happen? The BVerfG said that we need more Wahlkreise?
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Jan 21, 2023 02:58
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Up to 2009 the situation was that Überhangmandate were a complete bonus. So, if Zweitstimme said a party should get 40 seats in a state, but the party won 45 Direktmandate, then the party would get 5 more seats than the proportional vote - distorting the results. For a long time, this wasn’t a problem, as there were only very few Überhangmandate and it never distorted the results enough to change the balance of power. When the SPD and CDU/CSU stopped always getting 40% or more of the vote, the number of Überhangmandate started to get significant and people realized something: the way the system worked, it was possible for a party to actually get less seats by getting more votes. This is because the number of seats a party would get was determined countrywide by the Zweitstimme, and then divided among the various states in accordance to the number of Zweitstimmen in each state. So getting more votes in a state where a party gets Überhangmandate can then actually be a bad thing, if it leads to a seat being assigned from another state where the party didn’t win Überhangmandate. This would result in the party losing a seat. This „negative voting weight“ was declared unconstitutional as it runs counter to the obvious will of the voter.
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Jan 21, 2023 08:30
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Seems to me like the easiest solution would just be banning the CSU 
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Jan 21, 2023 11:07
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Perestroika posted:Seems to me like the easiest solution would just be banning the CSU The Bavarian electorate would just rally around another party, so banning the CSU will not solve the issue in its own.
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Jan 21, 2023 11:24
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Randler posted:The Bavarian electorate would just rally around another party, so banning the CSU will not solve the issue in its own. Ah, I see what you are saying. We should launch a series of tactical nuclear strikes at Bavaria.
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Jan 21, 2023 13:01
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DTurtle posted:Up to 2009 the situation was that Überhangmandate were a complete bonus. So, if Zweitstimme said a party should get 40 seats in a state, but the party won 45 Direktmandate, then the party would get 5 more seats than the proportional vote - distorting the results. For a long time, this wasn’t a problem, as there were only very few Überhangmandate and it never distorted the results enough to change the balance of power. What does that have to do with the number of wahlkreise I was talking about
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Jan 21, 2023 13:11
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Shakespearean Beef posted:Ah, I see what you are saying. We should launch a series of tactical nuclear strikes at Bavaria. you mustn’t be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling
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Jan 21, 2023 13:59
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How about we (Germany) start to care about actual problems and not some  we spend per Capita per year on "too many" Abgeordnete? (from https://jakubmarian.com/number-of-seats-in-the-national-parliament-by-country-in-europe-total-per-capita-map/) Too be honest, looking at that map I would suggest doubling the number of Abgeordnete to be more in line with our neighbors and close that Abgeordneten-Gap.
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Jan 21, 2023 14:07
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It takes a village to raise a child. It takes a small nation to govern a mid-sized nation.
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Jan 21, 2023 14:21
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Eventually the Bundestag will become so big the Abgeordnete will have to form a sort of constituency and have elections for representatives, thus creating the Bundestagsparlament or Bundes-Bundestag. Said Bundes-Bundestag will of course grow as well, forming a Bundes-Bundes-Bundestag eventually until we’re a nation of politicians. Cracies upon cracies
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Jan 21, 2023 14:28
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Grim Up North posted:How about we (Germany) start to care about actual problems and not some This map is not really helpful, because of population differences. The entirety of the Icelandic population fits into one medium-sized German city, for example. A lot of the surrounding countries with seemingly "bigger" parliaments only look that way because their population is far smaller than ours. France has 68 to our 84 million people, so if you account for lower population, their parliament is probably almost the exact same size as ours. Poland has roughly 40 million people, so according to this map ca. 600 members of parliament. So while they have "more representation" by purely mathematical standards, their parliament is still smaller than ours. And everyone not completely insane would agree that cramming fewer people into a room equals things getting done quicker. From my view point, this issue is easily solvable: Just merge nearby Wahlkreise into one, effectively halving the total number of them. Also restrict the number of Direktmandate a party can have to fit the number of seats they're actually getting from people voting for the party, eliminating Überhangmandate completely as a problem. Additionally, reduce the barrier to entry into the Bundestag to 3,5% as compensation for smaller parties suddenly not being over-represented by magic seats anymore. 3,5% of the voters in a country our size is still a lot, and it's still enough to prevent hundreds of tiny splinter parties from clogging up political processes. So, no all sides are satisfied and the Bundestag is smaller, get to work, politicians.
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Jan 21, 2023 14:37
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That graphic is already per person, but it's still misleading because Germany has all those Länder Parlamente additionally which I just have a hunch are much smaller and less important in France. Anyway just make direkt and Zweitstimmen totally independent, half the Bundestag Direktkandidaten, half Listenkandidaten, then you can also lower the 5% Hürde to always include some funny issue of the day people like Piraten or Die Basis. If this helps Union and SPD too much, a) good, this will hopefully prevent grokos in the future and b) make Erststimme ranked approval voting or something else that isn't fptp.
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Jan 21, 2023 14:48
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pidan posted:That graphic is already per person, but it's still misleading because Germany has all those Länder Parlamente additionally which I just have a hunch are much smaller and less important in France. That works, too. Also, we could maybe spin it out more into a general reform including the Bundesrat. It's a bit silly that the Bundesrat is just this weird council of elder statesmen formed from the Ministerpräsidenten and their personal hit squads. After pulling apart Erst- und Zweitstimmen, only use Zweitstimmen for the Bundestag, and only use Erststimmen for the Bundesrat. People in the Bundesländern are already voting for the Bundestag in the first place, it's completely ridiculous that our second chamber of parliament is instead created in a manner so indirect, it's basically over the threshold of democracy and instead has turned into an oligarchy. Erststimmen is already people voting for people they know above abstract parties of unknowns, that's enough to form a second chamber that's slightly different from the first one. And as a bonus: If you vote for Karl Liebknecht from your own Wahlkreis, you probably can trust him to represent your local issues better than Otto Labskaus, who's only qualification was being the best friend of your Ministerpräsident. So it would be an improvement over the current Bundesrat even in Länderrepräsentierung!
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Jan 21, 2023 15:02
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Zwille posted:you mustn’t be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling So, raise the Wählerbombe on high, Under its cloud we'll surely die, For though it sends us all to hell, It kills the CSU as well
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Jan 21, 2023 23:02
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Want to share a conversation I just had Me, drunk: "we should put every CSUler against the wall" My Oma, sober: "und des warn no niat gnou"
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Jan 22, 2023 00:44
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aphid_licker posted:What does that have to do with the number of wahlkreise I was talking about CDU won 33 Direktmandate in Baden-Württemberg, but only enough votes to get 21 seats there. So you would need to eliminate a third of all Wahlkreise in order to avoid Überhangmandate in the future with similar results.
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Jan 22, 2023 01:37
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Do people even care about their Direktkandidat? Could you name them without looking it up and tell me what they've done for you? While we're just coming up with suggestions that will never get implemented, I say just get rid of Direktkandidaten / Erststimmen entirely. It just adds a whole bunch of complexity for very little benefit.
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Jan 22, 2023 09:27
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Ok, i have a solution We eliminate all Wahlkreise except for one. I'm gonna say "Waldshut" because it's a funny name. There are no Überhangmandate but the their vote counts x2
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Jan 22, 2023 09:50
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beer_war posted:While we're just coming up with suggestions that will never get implemented, I say just get rid of Direktkandidaten / Erststimmen entirely. It just adds a whole bunch of complexity for very little benefit. Do this, only to see the reaction of the CSU. One of whom already said the proposed change would change German elections into what‘s only seen in Schurkenstaaten. Experts currently fremdschäming full time. Anyway, did y‘all consider that reducing Ausgleichsmandate and Wahlkreise will probably reduce diversity because youngsters and women are usually further down in the lists and won‘t be picked anymore?
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Jan 22, 2023 09:57
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Easy: Sort the lists by ascending age.
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Jan 22, 2023 10:01
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I noticed it when I looked deeper into the topic, yes. My solution is to take something that works from the USA. We could turn Bavaria into the equivalent of Puerto Rico, with no representation at the federal level. Then we could shrink the Bundestag with no adverse effects.
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Jan 22, 2023 10:07
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Antigravitas posted:My solution is to take something that works from the USA. No such thing.
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Jan 22, 2023 10:10
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Antigravitas posted:I noticed it when I looked deeper into the topic, yes. 
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Jan 22, 2023 10:18
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Antigravitas posted:I noticed it when I looked deeper into the topic, yes. I still prefer the nuclear option. But please do it before tomorrow so I don't have to go to work. TIA
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Jan 22, 2023 10:19
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Do be quick about it, my shift starts in an hour.
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Jan 22, 2023 11:31
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DTurtle posted:Just reducing the number of Wahlkreise will not change the unconstitutionality of having uncompensated Überhangmandate distorting the results of the Zweitstimme. You don't have to avoid them all, just reduce Direktmandate a bit leading to a proportional reduction in the necessary Ausgleichsmandate and bam you have 50 fewer guys in bt and can say that you did sth
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Jan 22, 2023 11:43
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Alternatively, more dudes in the Bundestag is job creation. Expand the Bundestag. Betreuungsschlüssel Abgeordnete:constituents must be 1:20 at most.
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Jan 22, 2023 11:56
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20 Abgeordnete per constituents and we’re talking
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Jan 22, 2023 13:01
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Every worker a member of the board imo
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Jan 22, 2023 13:03
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Antigravitas posted:We could turn Bavaria into the equivalent of Puerto Rico In an extremely Hubert Aiwanger voice: Ober wos mocht des miet den Tschongsen der Froien Weler ouf Bundesebene so riichtig dorchzustorten? Y'all watch Quer, right? https://www.ardmediathek.de/video/q...mMDUyMjJhZmFmZg
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Jan 23, 2023 07:30
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Postillion getting kind of lame these days Postillion posted:
jk it’s t-online
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Jan 23, 2023 09:35
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The perfect solution is to get rid of Erststimmen and make the picks from the list random. Just use the Lotto studio after election.
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Jan 23, 2023 13:10
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Just make sure Endziffern 1933 through 1945 never win
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Jan 23, 2023 15:07
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