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The Chairman posted:yeah, the Maquis are upset because they feel abandoned and ignored by the Federation, since they were blindsided by the high-level diplomatic talks that simultaneously renounced all Federation claims on Cardassian colony worlds while handing Federation colonies to the Cardassian Union. They were warned before they settled there that the area was in dispute
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Jan 25, 2023 00:18
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I was always under the impression the swap went both ways and there were a bunch of Cardassian civilians now living in Federation territory and they're just much more chill because "Wait... we don't have to live under a fascist military dictatorship?"
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Jan 25, 2023 00:22
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I'm onto Season 7 of TNG AKA the last season of TNG and wow that was a pretty weak premiere. Data's character is undefined, Lore is doing the same thing as always, and Hugh is barely in the episode.
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Jan 25, 2023 00:34
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Is season 7 the one that has the 2 parter where Picard pretends to be a tomb robber and the crew think he's dead?
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Jan 25, 2023 00:38
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Gaz-L posted:I was always under the impression the swap went both ways and there were a bunch of Cardassian civilians now living in Federation territory and they're just much more chill because "Wait... we don't have to live under a fascist military dictatorship?" Yeah I don't remember any specifics (maybe it's in that 2 parter where Siskos friend defects into the Maquis) but there's some throw away line about how the Cardassians on the federation side are totally cool and chill and not even doing a little terrorism.
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Jan 25, 2023 01:00
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MikeJF posted:They were warned before they settled there that the area was in dispute Yeah, they did something stupid and then act like massive assholes about it. There's no defending the maquis and it makes all the stories kind of lame.
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Jan 25, 2023 01:02
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Gaz-L posted:Is season 7 the one that has the 2 parter where Picard pretends to be a tomb robber and the crew think he's dead? That’s Gambit, yeah. It’s alright, although I remember the resolution being pretty stupid and the weapon is nonsense. DoubleCakes posted:I'm onto Season 7 of TNG AKA the last season of TNG and wow that was a pretty weak premiere. Data's character is undefined, Lore is doing the same thing as always, and Hugh is barely in the episode. Descent is the worst two-parter in TNG, the only highlight is Crusher getting to command the Enterprise for an extended bit.
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Jan 25, 2023 01:06
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Big Mean Jerk posted:That’s Gambit, yeah. It’s alright, although I remember the resolution being pretty stupid and the weapon is nonsense. Stewart and Frakes are having a ball in their plot in the episode which forgives a lot of sins, IMO.
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Jan 25, 2023 01:08
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Gaz-L posted:Stewart and Frakes are having a ball in their plot in the episode which forgives a lot of sins, IMO. For sure, Stewart’s always really fun when he plays scoundrel types.
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Jan 25, 2023 01:10
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My understanding was that all those colonies ended up together in a demilitarized zone, but because the Cardassian military didn't want the peace treaty in the first place, they extracted a whole bunch of concessions from the Federation (which was part of why the borders were so messy), and then immediately started flaunting the treaty, smuggling military assets to their colonies so they could raid the Federation ones. The Federation colonies decided to take matters into their own hands and fight back as the Maquis, and were successful enough that the Cardassian military started threatening war again if the Federation didn't stop them. So Sisko was sent in and the Maquis told him "gently caress you, start the war again or we'll keep fighting Cardies until they start the war again for you". And this went back and forth for several seasons until Cardassia joined the Dominion and the Jem'hadar wiped out the Maquis overnight. It was a storyline that had potential, but squandered a lot of it by having the Maquis defend all their actions with appeals to how rugged individualism and dying to preventable diseases is so awesome because the tomatoes taste better that way. And it was all put in place in TNG and DS9 because Berman wanted a big cross-media setup for Voyager.
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Jan 25, 2023 01:26
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A cross media setup that lasted all of 2 episodes and then everyone patiently forgot that half the ship was Marquis for the rest of the series
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Jan 25, 2023 01:50
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I can see a few holdouts because people can be that loving stupid, but "fighting a guerilla war for your planet based colony against people who have zero reasons NOT to to bombard your planet and obliterate your colony" is such a bad strategy.
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Jan 25, 2023 01:54
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Look man, you see this sick-rear end aqueduct? Well my GRANDFATHER was BURIED on that MOUNTAIN
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Jan 25, 2023 02:26
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So...that Borg episode in season 2 of Enterprise... That was a bad one, huh?
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Jan 25, 2023 02:27
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Feldegast42 posted:A cross media setup that lasted all of 2 episodes and then everyone patiently forgot that half the ship was Marquis for the rest of the series 5. Caretaker 1 and 2, Dreadnought, Basics 1 and 2.
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Jan 25, 2023 02:28
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If they had made the Maquis almost exclusively a group compromised of Bajorans and that one Native American/First Peoples colony from Journey’s End then it could have worked. You’d have a group that either had a history of being oppressed and subjugated by the Cardassians already or had extensive traumatic history of forced relocations and genocide on Earth and that gives them baked-in sympathy for their cause and a reason for fighting. They’re refusing to bow down to another oppressive colonizing force and fighting back on their own terms. Things get muddied when you populate the group with dipshits like Eddington and Torres who’re fighting for (???) and the 24th century equivalent of state’s rights.
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Jan 25, 2023 02:56
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Descent is the worst two-parter in TNG, the only highlight is Crusher getting to command the Enterprise for an extended bit. My main takeaway from Descent is that it was so clearly named back when the plan was to have the saucer crash and the cliffhanger would be the literal decent of the saucer into the atmosphere, and then that got written out for being too expensive so now it's a double meaning title without half its meaning.
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Jan 25, 2023 03:03
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I feel like it should be self-evident why any living beings would have some kind of attachment to their homes even though the show never had any real interest in the subject peoples beyond the diplomatic crises they cause.FISHMANPET posted:It's also why Sisko started basically nuking planets. He had some kind of weapon that would make a planet uninhabitable by humans, but just fine for Cardassians, and he started hitting Maquis planets with it, to force them to make peace or GTFO. He didn't really win any peace, he just stopped the one particular scheme that the Maquis had that day and arrested one specific guy he had a grudge against. The cause still existed and wasn't really over until
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Jan 25, 2023 03:04
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The Maquis devolved into a gallery of psychos and scoundrels pretty quickly. Anyone in the Federation with daddy issues or a thing for vivisection was let in.
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Jan 25, 2023 03:09
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Fighting Trousers posted:So...that Borg episode in season 2 of Enterprise... I liked it. It was practically an in universe UFO sighting and official cover up
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Jan 25, 2023 03:22
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A Very Sexy Baby posted:The Maquis devolved into a gallery of psychos and scoundrels pretty quickly. Anyone in the Federation with daddy issues or a thing for vivisection was let in. Makes you wonder why there were so many serial killers in Starfleet in the first place 
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Jan 25, 2023 03:24
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Delsaber posted:Look man, you see this sick-rear end aqueduct? Well my GRANDFATHER was BURIED on that MOUNTAIN Just watched this one lol
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Jan 25, 2023 03:26
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Fighting Trousers posted:So...that Borg episode in season 2 of Enterprise... The Borg one is perfectly fine. The one you want to watch out for is the Ferengi episode.
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Jan 25, 2023 03:37
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The Marquis would have been an interesting idea for another space franchise, but Star Trek is built on the premise of a post-scarcity world. Traveling through space and setting up a new life for yourself just isn't that big of a deal.
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Jan 25, 2023 03:54
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A Very Sexy Baby posted:The Maquis devolved into a gallery of psychos and scoundrels pretty quickly. Anyone in the Federation with daddy issues or a thing for vivisection was let in. I don't think there's any Maquis characters in DS9 that aren't just Starfleet defectors rallying to the cause of fighting fascism.
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Jan 25, 2023 04:01
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SlothfulCobra posted:I don't think there's any Maquis characters in DS9 that aren't just Starfleet defectors rallying to the cause of fighting fascism. Kasidy isn't Starfleet
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Jan 25, 2023 04:17
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Timeless Appeal posted:The Marquis would have been an interesting idea for another space franchise, but Star Trek is built on the premise of a post-scarcity world. Traveling through space and setting up a new life for yourself just isn't that big of a deal. Star Trek is a show where one of the main characters has a vineyard that's been in his family for hundreds of years. Homesteaders who care more about where they live than any kind of practical consideration fit in just fine. The only real problem with the Maquis is that the writers weren't really interested in doing much worldbuilding around them, so a whole lot about their motivations and methods just didn't make sense.
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Jan 25, 2023 04:25
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cenotaph posted:Yeah, they did something stupid and then act like massive assholes about it. There's no defending the maquis and it makes all the stories kind of lame. This.
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Jan 25, 2023 04:59
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Its kind of wild that in a post scarcity world they allow Picard to keep his vineyard in his family. Even in the future there is apparently generational wealth. How does he even pay is workers. Did they just put out advertisements for people who wanted to work in a vineyard for free and make wine. It just doesn't make sense.
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Jan 25, 2023 05:20
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It's probably part of some university property and run as educational experience
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Jan 25, 2023 05:33
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Picard retconned it so that the vineyard literally stood abandoned until Picard's father moved in to take over the historical family property, so presumably it was like 'we'd like to take on operation of an unused historical property in accordance with blah blah blah, we're willing to do the necessary work and upkeep' and nobody objected so they were allowed.
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Jan 25, 2023 05:35
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SlothfulCobra posted:I don't think there's any Maquis characters in DS9 that aren't just Starfleet defectors rallying to the cause of fighting fascism. There's that Vulcan gunrunner that Quark out-logics.
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Jan 25, 2023 05:42
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Hollismason posted:Did they just put out advertisements for people who wanted to work in a vineyard for free and make wine. I mean if you’re living on post-scarcity earth but still wanted a hobby that kept you active, I can think of far worse things to do than “walk around in perfectly controlled French weather making and enjoying all the fine wine you can stand and occasionally interacting with a genial Starfleet living legend”
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Jan 25, 2023 05:46
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Particularly since the hard labour is automated with the harvester drones and things.
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Jan 25, 2023 05:59
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Hollismason posted:Its kind of wild that in a post scarcity world they allow Picard to keep his vineyard in his family. Even in the future there is apparently generational wealth. How does he even pay is workers. Did they just put out advertisements for people who wanted to work in a vineyard for free and make wine. I mean why wouldn't they let him keep his vineyard? Real estate is probably not much of an issue when you are an interstellar civilization. Although yeah dunno about the workers. Same issue with Sisko's Father's restaurant. I doubt anybody is volunteering to handle the non-cooking parts of a restaurant.
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Jan 25, 2023 05:59
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IShallRiseAgain posted:Although yeah dunno about the workers. Same issue with Sisko's Father's restaurant. I doubt anybody is volunteering to handle the non-cooking parts of a restaurant. Sisko's is tiny, the kitchen is probably self-cleaning and a lot of the scutwork is automated, and since it's not profit driven they'll kick you out if you're an rear end in a top hat. So young cooks are probably happy to apprentice under Joe Sisko. We see him taking orders and carrying out meals as well so I'm guessing they all do a bit of everything. It's a little relaxed comfortable setup.
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Jan 25, 2023 06:03
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Also holograms exist. Imagine a restaurant run by one old man and his grandson with a dining room full of Bob Picardos rolling their eyes as they seat guests and take orders.
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Jan 25, 2023 06:05
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Also without the idea of 'service workers who you pay to service you' I wouldn't be surprised if customers are expected to clean off their tables and carry the plates off to the counter and if they want a refill of a drink go and get it yourself and stuff like that. Just a more communal setup.
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Jan 25, 2023 06:09
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Yeah if restaurants are essentially just places where you go to get unique homecooked meals then their existence in Trek makes perfect sense for both the people running them and the people eating there
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Jan 25, 2023 06:12
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That also lines up with all the restaurants we've seen in the 24th being very small.
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Jan 25, 2023 06:19
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