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IShallRiseAgain posted:I mean why wouldn't they let him keep his vineyard? Real estate is probably not much of an issue when you are an interstellar civilization. As usual: Why not? All the lovely parts of being a server or busser or whatever are gone in a more socially advanced post-scarcity society. You don't have a lovely boss abusing you, or lovely customers being assholes. You aren't there only because you need money to survive. You're there to have a pleasant few hours interacting with fun and interesting customers who treat you with respect and kindness a few times a week, most likely, rather than being on your feet for 12 hours at a time being treated like poo poo for slave pay from every direction. Dishwashing is putting dirty plates into a replicator to break them down and put out new clean new ones. Cooks, as it turns out, enjoy cooking. Sounds like a lot of fun for a lot of people I know.
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Jan 25, 2023 06:21
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Pretty sure there was a waiter at Sisko's restaurant taking orders. I mean, you can come up with ways to justify it, sure, but at bottom it's more that the writers wanted to give Sisko's stick-in-the-mud father a role where he was still active and decided on a restaurant, and didn't really think much further than that. If there were any discussions about how a post-scarcity restaurant would work I'm sure they were short-lived. Hell, whenever they even brushed up against how federation economics would work at an even surface level they ended up just lampshading it. It's pretty clear no one writing Star Trek at the time (or now, really) took any of that utopian economics poo poo seriously. Why would they, anyway? They had melodrama to write! ashpanash fucked around with this message at 06:37 on Jan 25, 2023 |
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Jan 25, 2023 06:35
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Wasn't Siskos peeling a mountain of potatoes when Ezri finds him at the restaurant in the Season 7 opener? Though that could very well be him doing grunt work for the sake of doing grunt work, rather than it being the only way to get peeled potatoes. Then again I can't imagine his dad being happy with the federation standard potato peeler that just transports the skin off the potato and rematerializes it as a pad of butter to melt on the potato after it's baked or something.
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Jan 25, 2023 06:35
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Aoi posted:As usual: Why not? Even not for profit hobby projects have lovely leaders who go on power trips, and entitled demanding users of such projects.
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Jan 25, 2023 06:44
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Prurient Squid posted:So what are the porn parody titles for all the Trek films? The Motion of the Ocean Picture A Bath With Khan The Search for the Spot The Voyage Hole The Anal Frontier The Cum Covered Country Gyrations Fist Contact Inserterection No... My.... Sis? Pornstar Trek Into Darkness Behind
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Jan 25, 2023 06:46
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Animal-Mother posted:The Motion of the Ocean Picture The Lotion Picture The Wrath of [WORD THAT KILLED QCS] The Search for Spunk The Voyeur Home The Undiscovered [WORD THAT KILLED QCS]
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Jan 25, 2023 07:01
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Sex Trek: The Original Position Sex Trek: The Next Gyneration Sex Trek: Nine Inches Deep In Space Sex Trek: Voyeur Sex Trek: Enter Prize Sex Trek: Disco Fever Sex Trek: Strange New Strange Sex Trek: Lower Dicks
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Jan 25, 2023 07:52
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Aoi posted:As usual: Why not? It's basically the same fantasy that gets a lot of people in real life to open small restaurants that consume their entire life savings and then go bankrupt in two years, except without the bankruptcy part.
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Jan 25, 2023 08:54
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I mean, I don't know that Star Trek ever provided any answers in canon, but I would imagine since there are only so many buildings in historic downtown Cincinnati if you have multiple people coming to the city council saying "yeah I'd like to revive the lost art of skyline chili here in the city" and one of them is just some joker who's been holo-banging all day, while the other has been interning at Siskos famous down home restaurant for 4 years learning how restaurants work, they're not going to give the limited space to the holodeck wanker. Same thing with Picard's vinyard, if he let it go to pot, stopped working it, ruining this historic wine country, the local council would go "yeaaaah Picard we're turning over the land to someone who will actually work it"
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Jan 25, 2023 09:23
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Tom Guycot posted:I mean, I don't know that Star Trek ever provided any answers in canon, but I would imagine since there are only so many buildings in historic downtown Cincinnati if you have multiple people coming to the city council saying "yeah I'd like to revive the lost art of skyline chili here in the city" and one of them is just some joker who's been holo-banging all day, while the other has been interning at Siskos famous down home restaurant for 4 years learning how restaurants work, they're not going to give the limited space to the holodeck wanker. You say that, but someone who's been holo-banging all day has an excellent understanding of how to make Skyline chili imo.
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Jan 25, 2023 09:52
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Everyone posted:She probably didn't? I think Ro's situation is a little bit like Walt's from Breaking Bad. If Walt had had decent insurance and/or US health care hadn't been even more hideously broken than it is now, he'd have fought his cancer, kept teaching and just continued life without becoming a terrifying drug lord who knocks. If Ro hadn't been placed undercover, she'd have been a slightly rebellious Ensign who probably would have matured to become an excellent Starfleet officer instead of "breaking Maquis." Starfleet Academy faked an accident, injury, and death just for Wesley Crusher's issues over his dad dying in the line of duty. What would they concoct for someone who lived in a refugee camp under Cardassian occupation and was forced to watch her father be tortured to death?
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Jan 25, 2023 10:12
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V-Men posted:Starfleet Academy faked an accident, injury, and death just for Wesley Crusher's issues over his dad dying in the line of duty. What would they concoct for someone who lived in a refugee camp under Cardassian occupation and was forced to watch her father be tortured to death? Starfleet Trauma Inducement officer: Okay, we've got us a real doozy here. Suggestions? Lon Suder: *claps and rubs his hands* WELL,
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Jan 25, 2023 11:00
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I think honestly, the single biggest problem with the Maquis was basically a problem they also had several other times throughout the franchise: somebody on the staff was really into that '90s "Global Village Coffeehouse" aesthetic, and their entire concept for how to design a non-Federation society was basically just to use that template over and over again. I always got the impression that these inhabitants were primarily defending that aesthetic and nothing else. "But look! We have beige!" See also the Bajorans, any given episode where there's a creepy primitive village and/or they have to get people off a planet, and (by extension) Insurrection.
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Jan 25, 2023 12:38
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IShallRiseAgain posted:Even not for profit hobby projects have lovely leaders who go on power trips, and entitled demanding users of such projects. Yeah, but the difference is that nothing is tying you down to that project. If it sucks, you can leave. I feel like that would not only make those "jobs" suck a whole lot less, but it might also do a lot to curb those negative impulses since you don't really have any real power over anyone. You won't get to run your little hobby project for long if everyone keeps leaving.
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Jan 25, 2023 13:59
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Maquis recruiter: the Federation doesn't want us to wear green or purple vests with our short sleeved shirts and tall boots! Colonist: hey... he's right!
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Jan 25, 2023 14:05
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Technowolf posted:The Borg one is perfectly fine. The one you want to watch out for is the Ferengi episode. The Ferengi one amused me, and I was willing to accept the handwave of "never said the name" because that incident could go down in the books as "The NX-01 ran into some big eared pirates who were poo poo at piracy lol", whereas the Borg just seemed to be an order of magnitude more dangerous and we're just going to write that off as a 24th century problem. (Also it ignores that the very first Borg contact in TNG was Q playing games)
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Jan 25, 2023 15:35
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Fighting Trousers posted:The Ferengi one amused me, and I was willing to accept the handwave of "never said the name" because that incident could go down in the books as "The NX-01 ran into some big eared pirates who were poo poo at piracy lol", whereas the Borg just seemed to be an order of magnitude more dangerous and we're just going to write that off as a 24th century problem. (Also it ignores that the very first Borg contact in TNG was Q playing games) Berman & Braga Trek just couldn't help Borging the place up. (See also how the Borg essentially became the primary antagonist of Voyager starting with Scorpion.)
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Jan 25, 2023 15:44
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The Enterprise Borg episode is really good imo, just with the caveat that that encounter should have completely reshaped Starfleet's security policy and made preparation for a future encounter with the Borg an overriding priority. But like the episode itself was a great thriller and used the Borg brilliantly, probably the best depiction of them since Q Who
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Jan 25, 2023 15:50
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No Dignity posted:probably the best depiction of them since Q Who Low bar to clear.
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Jan 25, 2023 15:54
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Big Mean Jerk posted:For sure, Stewart’s always really fun when he plays scoundrel types. That reminds me, is Green Room worth watching?
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Jan 25, 2023 15:59
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A.o.D. posted:That reminds me, is Green Room worth watching? Yes. But be warned, it is very intense.
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Jan 25, 2023 16:05
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Fighting Trousers posted:(Also it ignores that the very first Borg contact in TNG was Q playing games) It has a parallel. We call it the Columbian Exchange, not the Some Viking Guy Exchange for a reason.
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Jan 25, 2023 16:24
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Animal-Mother posted:The Motion of the Ocean Picture I remember reading (maybe even here) that the TNG porno had a professional Picard impersonator, and they used a 'stunt double' for his sex scenes.
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Jan 25, 2023 16:45
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Picard didn't have any sex scenes and the cut without the porn is a drat decent TNG episode.
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Jan 25, 2023 16:46
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IShallRiseAgain posted:Even not for profit hobby projects have lovely leaders who go on power trips, and entitled demanding users of such projects. And in a post-scarcity 'evolved' (haha) society like the Federation, more than that, the Federation *on Earth*, lovely leaders like that get nobody working for them or get replaced by whoever gives the ok to projects like that, and entitled demanding users get the (polite) boot, because why tolerate rude pains in the rear end when the whole point is for everybody to have a good time? This is all a strictly voluntary process. Nobody has to put up with anybody's crap. If somebody running a restaurant is a lovely abusive leader, good luck getting anybody to spend their time 'working' there. If somebody is a bad 'customer', they get shown the door. It's not like they need their money, and the Federation is too evolved to let Yelp exist.
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Jan 25, 2023 18:14
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FISHMANPET posted:I think the Federation offered to relocate anybody that was going to end up on the Cardassian side of the line, but the colonists that stayed behind felt like they had personal connections to these places, which is why they didn't just want to get scooped up into a starship and dumped somewhere else to do it all over again. Remember those native american colonists that found a planet, in TNG. The solution was for them to leave the federation, and the cardaissians were pretty good about "just stay the gently caress away from us" The wesly pulled himself out of time and met the traveler again, who took him away....and groomed him maybe
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Jan 25, 2023 18:47
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Ups_rail posted:Remember those native american colonists that found a planet, in TNG. Once you're an adult that's just called courtship.
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Jan 25, 2023 20:14
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Yeah I guess that Federation post scarcity makes things a little easier on people just not put up with people's bullshit and people who are assholes don't get to run anything unless their in Star Fleet. Wait, does the Federation just send all its megalomaniacal assholes to Star Fleet.
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Jan 25, 2023 20:31
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Hollismason posted:Wait, does the Federation just send all its megalomaniacal assholes to Star Fleet. I've seen several jokes is that Star Fleet is Like That because all the workaholic weridos and so forth go there. All the "normal" Federation citizens are probably like chill beatniks or something. In canon, Crusher remarks that people who terraform planets tend to have odd personalities, so those jokes are probably not that far off. EDIT: In book canon, one of the human popicals TNG crew thaw out is a financier, who ends up being an ambassador to Ferengi as he "gets" their culture. So the oddballs do find their own footing... just... not their home planets. EDIT EDIT: This probably also explains why first generation colonists are Like That as well. Twincityhacker fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Jan 25, 2023 |
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Jan 25, 2023 20:37
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Ups_rail posted:Remember those native american colonists that found a planet, in TNG. What’s the over / under on those guys being super dead by the time Cardassia joined the Dominion? 100%? 1000%?
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Jan 25, 2023 20:44
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jeeves posted:What’s the over / under on those guys being super dead by the time Cardassia joined the Dominion? 100%? 1000%? I don't think their planet had any cool resources on it, they liked the place for religious reasons. So there was no reason for them to go on top of the murder pile - so as long as that colony didn't join the Maquis. If they joined the Maquis, their settlements would have been bombarded from orbit and only scattered individuals would remain. They might have even survived the Dominion! Depends on how far the planet was from the beaten path, and how much the Dominon was hurting for slave labor.
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Jan 25, 2023 21:06
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We don't really know the details of Cardassian rule over humans. The TNG episode about the annexed planet that Picard was under orders to Trail of Tears the inhabitants off of kinda got hijacked when the main colonist character turned out to be an alien with the goal of spiriting Wesley away. DS9 had even less interest in examining the lives of the people on the ground, although it did oscillate a bit on how bad Cardassian fascism was. Life on Earth or the interior of the Federation is primarily above all else not described or examined in any meaningful way, and the show puts a lot of effort into not examining anything in detail. Any deductions or postulation about what Federation life is like is putting more thought into it than the show itself did, but I think there is generally the implication by most writers that peace and stability shouldn't rob people of their ambition. Twincityhacker posted:I don't think their planet had any cool resources on it, they liked the place for religious reasons. So there was no reason for them to go on top of the murder pile - so as long as that colony didn't join the Maquis. If they joined the Maquis, their settlements would have been bombarded from orbit and only scattered individuals would remain. They were humans in Cardassian territory and above all else they were a boring loose end that the writers had no interest in, which is total death sentence material. Although it's very weird for you to keep conjuring up a weird benevolent and merciful image of Cardassian fascism when crossed with Dominion anti-solid racism. SlothfulCobra fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Jan 25, 2023 |
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Jan 25, 2023 21:07
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The idea that Starfleet is kind of a dumping ground for Earth’s weirdoes goes back to the TMP novel, where like half of Earth’s population are telepathically networked Aquarian age types who spend their days free-lovin’ and whose brains would pop if they met an alien. And guys like Kirk are seen as out-of-step and old-fashioned (even though Kirk himself is even manlier and hornier than seen on TV and would go on record as saying “yeah I’d totally do Spock, but i never did tho”). You can kinda sorta still see echoes of this in early TNG’s focus on humans having evolved to the point where they’re halfway between modern man and godhood, but it fades away together with the rest of the Roddenberry-inspired craziness as 90s Trek sets in.
skasion fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Jan 25, 2023 |
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Jan 25, 2023 21:10
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SlothfulCobra posted:Although it's very weird for you to keep conjuring up a weird benevolent and merciful image of Cardassian fascism when crossed with Dominion anti-solid racism. Of course the Cardies also had a recipe for anti- human gas…
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Jan 25, 2023 21:21
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SlothfulCobra posted:Although it's very weird for you to keep conjuring up a weird benevolent and merciful image of Cardassian fascism when crossed with Dominion anti-solid racism. I'm not sure why you think "the death squads were going to be sent to the planet, except the Cardassians joined the Dominion so instead of being killed on the spot they were sent to workcamps to build ships for the war effort" is "merciful or benevolent." In my mind, the only way they would have been left alone if the planet was so off the beaten path it wasn't worth the effort - like bombing the tiny border crossing in Montana-Alberta could be done, but your efforts are better served by bombing the poo poo out of the Seattle-Vancouver and Detroit-Toranto border crossings first.
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Jan 25, 2023 21:32
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Twincityhacker posted:I've seen several jokes is that Star Fleet is Like That because all the workaholic weridos and so forth go there. All the "normal" Federation citizens are probably like chill beatniks or something. God I swear I ve read some weird short sci fi story with a plot like that. It was something like earth meets aliens in space that are on some important mission looking for something, Finally a meeting is heald with the aliens home planet and it turns out all of the aliens in space are basically children or mal adjusted adults and they view it as sending the kids out to play. while the adults stay home and assume earths spacemen are the same.
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Jan 25, 2023 21:39
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This is like Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy with the B arc. Where all the telephone sanitisers and people who worked in marketing were sent off into space.
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Jan 25, 2023 21:43
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Hollismason posted:Yeah I guess that Federation post scarcity makes things a little easier on people just not put up with people's bullshit and people who are assholes don't get to run anything unless their in Star Fleet. Starfleet gets portrayed as super competitive, so it's actually kind of understandable that it's got something like a more recognizable hierarchy and attitudes. You have to really want to be there and there are tons of people waiting to take your place, so there's a limit to how much you can just slack off. But also it seems like there are plenty of Starfleet jobs for people who don't want to go megahard and your worst-case scenario is still that you go back to post-scarcity paradise so, uh, not too bad.
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Jan 25, 2023 23:12
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Ups_rail posted:God I swear I ve read some weird short sci fi story with a plot like that. That kind of happened with Tremaine, except obviously substitute "obnoxious quasigod entity" for "bold space explorer"
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Jan 25, 2023 23:16
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For as mishandled as the maquis were, they did give us the episode where Sisko beats a Jem'hadar with a pipe, so really it was all worth it.
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Jan 25, 2023 23:25
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