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I've been using a 2008 MacPro for years now. For storage I just have always filled the 4 internal bays with drives, and then used Time Machine to back it up to a large external Hard Drive that was slightly bigger than the 4 internal drives combined. Works great for my needs, and every time a drive has died it's been very easy to just swap it out and restore with Time Machine. So now I want to finally upgrade this dinosaur and get a new M2 Pro Mac Mini to hopefully get me through the next 14 years. I love using Time Machine, but I figure there has to be a more elegant solution than just plugging in two matched external Hard Drives and using one as Time Machine to back up the other? Also... external drives are expensive, and I've swapped out enough SATA drives over the years to realize this. Is there some sort of recommended SATA HDD hard drive enclosure that I could plug into the Thunderbolt 4 port (or USB 3.0, or I guess the 10 GbE port on the back is an option?), and then have both drives show up as individual drives that I can swap out as needed? I guess I am not interested in an actual network attached storage device. I love having the drive plugged directly into the Mac, use Time Machine, and then allow Finder to index everything and make it easy to search. I also like being able mount Dropbox on the external storage, which AFIAK cannot be down on a Mac if it's a NAS. I would only be accessing files on the one computer. My use case for the data is Plex Server, storage for personal home videos/photos, and video editing with Premiere. Currently happy editing off a USB 3.0 drive for editing, and happy to prioritize the solution I'm looking for vs. speed Edit: Am I essentially looking for something like this? https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/MEDCH7T00/ Astro7x fucked around with this message at 16:48 on Jan 25, 2023 |
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Jan 25, 2023 16:24
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Astro7x posted:Is there some sort of recommended SATA HDD hard drive enclosure that I could plug into the Thunderbolt 4 port (or USB 3.0, or I guess the 10 GbE port on the back is an option?), and then have both drives show up as individual drives that I can swap out as needed? Sure -- when looking at 2-bay enclosures, you have to pay extra to get the "with raid" types that do something other than show 2 independent drives. There are much cheaper 2-drive USB docks that just plug bare drives into toaster slots on top but I'm not sure how great an idea that is long term. The drives in those are gonna experience a lot more vibration which might not be good for them long term. If you're going to use regular hard drives plain USB 3.0 is plenty fast enough even for both drives at once, no need for thunderbolt. Klyith fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Jan 25, 2023 |
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Jan 25, 2023 17:00
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Klyith posted:Sure -- when looking at 2-bay enclosures, you have to pay extra to get the "with raid" types that do something other than show 2 independent drives. So like this one would be a good option and is $10 cheaper than the one that can stitch the drives together. Ah... see, I was having trouble tracking down something that wasn't "With Raid" and cheaper. I also like that there is no sled that the drives go on, or unscrewing cases and screwing in drives like that OWC one I linked to. Ideally I'd be putting a 1TB SSD into the Mac Mini, and then use one of the enclosure for a 14TB and a 16TB drive, using the 16TB drive as a Time Machine for the other two drives. Are there any recommended HDDs for a setup like that that also isn't overkill and paying more than for what I need?
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Jan 25, 2023 17:13
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Astro7x posted:Ah... see, I was having trouble tracking down something that wasn't "With Raid" and cheaper. I also like that there is no sled that the drives go on, or unscrewing cases and screwing in drives like that OWC one I linked to. Sorry I think I hosed up -- the cheaper one does stitch 2 drives together rather than showing them independently. So don't buy that. The keyword to look for is "JBOD" (just a bunch of drives) to get multiple drives presented. Astro7x posted:Ideally I'd be putting a 1TB SSD into the Mac Mini, and then use one of the enclosure for a 14TB and a 16TB drive, using the 16TB drive as a Time Machine for the other two drives. Big drives 14TB and up are expensive, and they're all pretty much server-grade. The cheap way to buy them is sales on external drives -- which would mean you can forget buying a special 2-bay enclosure and just buy externals.
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Jan 25, 2023 17:24
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Astro7x posted:Are there any recommended HDDs for a setup like that that also isn't overkill and paying more than for what I need? Klyith posted:Big drives 14TB and up are expensive, and they're all pretty much server-grade. The cheap way to buy them is sales on external drives -- which would mean you can forget buying a special 2-bay enclosure and just buy externals. Assuming US, this is a good resource to find external drives on sale: https://shucks.top/
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Jan 25, 2023 17:38
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necrobobsledder posted:You must now name that machine Lemmy or Ozzy. It is preordained There was a photo doing the rounds of a Mikrotik router or switch that had been trashed in shipping and was now curved, powered up and working without any problems
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Jan 25, 2023 18:16
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I'm not sure it's that impressive that solid-state electronics stand up to a bit of abuse. So long as you're not breaking traces or causing chips/capacitors to crack, it's gonna take a non-insignificant amount of work to break solid-state electronics. I snipped this because most of it has been addressed, but just want to add that the key term you're looking for is: JBOD DAS - uninitialized, it means just a bunch of disks (via) direct attach storage.
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Jan 25, 2023 18:20
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Anyone have experience with Seagate Exos? I want to stick a pair of drivers in to my Linux box as some network storage/online backups. I have a Dell mff running as my 24/7 NAS, this desktop will be only be on when doing stuff. I intend to use zfs for what it's worth, with the drives mirrored. At the moment in the UK I can get 18TB exos at a £/tb of about 75% of the most cost effective Ironwolf/Ironwolf Pro drives.
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Jan 25, 2023 20:13
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Pablo Bluth posted:Anyone have experience with Seagate Exos? I use a bunch of the 16TB SAS ones at work and they seem perfectly fine.  I obviously don't know yet how they will hold up, but they show up and store data and are about the same speed as all other 7200rpm CMR 16TB drives you can buy. I think all the exos drives are CMR - but do check, in case there are SMR variants. E: Someone on reddit suggested the reason exos drives are cheaper than ironwolf Pro, even though they're as fast and rated for more use, is that the ironwolves come with five years of data recovery service. Computer viking fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Jan 25, 2023 |
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Jan 25, 2023 20:46
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Having looked a bit more, noise of the drives looks like one of the bigger downsides to the Exos line.
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Jan 25, 2023 21:07
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I've got some exos near my bed and they're noticeable when they're doing chunky stuff but nowhere near a problem.
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Jan 25, 2023 21:10
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Pablo Bluth posted:Anyone have experience with Seagate Exos? Backblaze always posts quarterly stats of Hard Drive failures in their data center, which is kind of fascinating. https://www.backblaze.com/blog/backblaze-drive-stats-for-q3-2022/  Those two Seagate 16TB drives are Exos drives, and they are the 2nd most used drive that they have. On a sample size of over 20,000 drives and 1.6 Million drive hours they have a failure rate of .62%
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Jan 25, 2023 21:11
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90s Cringe Rock posted:I've got some exos near my bed and they're noticeable when they're doing chunky stuff but nowhere near a problem. However, at some point, I experimented with moving everything around (meaning centralizing all computers in a rack, and using long cables to connect things to the monitors in my room), and since then I've been enjoying the heck out of the silence. Of course, it means you have to be living in a fairly small city where there's not much noise pollution even in the daytime, because I imagine it won't work the same if I lived in a place with more noise.
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Jan 25, 2023 21:20
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a skeleton posted:RDIMM causes a boot loop as it's checking the memory. The UDIMM passes the memory check, but my keyboard doesn't work to look at the BIOS System Information like it did with the provided UDIMM. I can now confirm RDIMM does not work.  My UDIMM non-ECC is still in the mail. It should work but I'm debating if I want ECC or not still.
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Jan 26, 2023 03:10
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SpartanIvy posted:It should work but I'm debating if I want ECC or not still. Considering the "server" mine will eventually replace is a celeron mini pc I'm not too worried about it lol
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Jan 26, 2023 05:26
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:I used to sleep in the same room as a server that had some spinning rust and couldn't really tell when they were running unless I paid attention to it, because it'd just become the equivalent of white-noise that the brain is good at filtering. My NAS is in my bedroom/office an with three drives an fans in it it's definitely not silent. The HGST drive in particular just loves making pretty loud noises randomly, but even when it's not, the noise floor is pretty high. It's not a problem for sleeping but whenever it does decide to spin down, it's a pretty pleasant surprise. I should probably try moving it into a closet, unfortunately that would mean drilling a hole through a brick wall to pass power and ethernet there 
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Jan 26, 2023 12:59
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mobby_6kl posted:My NAS is in my bedroom/office an with three drives an fans in it it's definitely not silent. The HGST drive in particular just loves making pretty loud noises randomly, but even when it's not, the noise floor is pretty high. It's not a problem for sleeping but whenever it does decide to spin down, it's a pretty pleasant surprise. I drilled a hole through a door, as it's easier to replace than a wall - the cable run had to be slightly longer because of it to allow for slack, but I don't regret it for a bit.
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Jan 26, 2023 14:42
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I am currently messing about with AWS' FSx ONTAP file system and will be building an iSCSI filer to compare/contrast price and performance vs EBS for my specific workload. That said, I'm considering three scenarios for a MSSQL Server machine: 1. one volume on ONTAP serving one iSCSI disk serving one volume on Windows with a set of databsae files on it (mdf, ndf and log files) 2. one volume on ONTAP serving one iSCSI disk serving multiple volumes on windows 3. multiple volumes on ONTAP, each serving one iSCSI disk with a single windows volume on it One would think it wouldn't make a difference because the ONTAP filer is still serving the same about of thoughput, the same amount of storage and the same amount of IOPS. Am I missing something?
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Jan 26, 2023 19:24
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There's a enterprise storage thread here in SHSC where that question might be better asked.
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Jan 26, 2023 20:06
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Just saw this deal on slickdeals. Would these be good drives for my 4 disk unRAID? My quick research shows they should be but I would like goon approval. I also looked at the backblaze analysis posted above and they seem to perform well in their data center. https://serverpartdeals.com/product...recertified-hdd
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Jan 26, 2023 21:52
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SpartanIvy posted:Just saw this deal on slickdeals. Would these be good drives for my 4 disk unRAID? My quick research shows they should be but I would like goon approval. I also looked at the backblaze analysis posted above and they seem to perform well in their data center. Woah Are these also good for synologies?
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Jan 26, 2023 21:55
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Those seem good but I swore off Seagate when I bought 3 of these
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Jan 26, 2023 22:09
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Drives being refurbished seems to me to be a big risk factor than the specific OEM!
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Jan 26, 2023 22:16
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I didn’t noticed they were refurbished Thank you for noticing 
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Jan 26, 2023 22:24
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Well 'Manufacturer Recertified', so it's been in the hands of Seagate.
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Jan 26, 2023 23:15
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Yeah for less than half the price of a shucked drive, if it still has a warranty I think that looks like a solid deal. My parity rebuild and data restore seems to have worked fine. I randomly opened a few dozen files on the recreated drive, and it all looked normal. Up over 100TB in storage now too. 
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Jan 27, 2023 00:04
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Corb3t posted:Those seem good but I swore off Seagate when I bought 3 of these I had one of those with all my backups on it. I had to ship it to Seagate to have them recover my data from the platters and send it back to me. Probably the most stressful computer related thing that's ever happened to me and I have not had another Seagate drive since. However: Enos Cabell posted:Yeah for less than half the price of a shucked drive, if it still has a warranty I think that looks like a solid deal. e: I bought 4 of them SpartanIvy fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Jan 27, 2023 |
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Jan 27, 2023 00:12
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I don't know what the deal is, but Unraid 6.11.5 is absolutely crap for me. I thought it was a USB thumb drive problem but I switched that out and installed Unraid 6.9.2 No issues on that one. Nvidia Drivers breaks on 6.11.5, hell sometimes even fresh booting with 6.11.5 makes it mess up. Just FYI I'm sure it's only me. I was running stable on 6.9 and was like okay well now I'll just upgrade on the latest! Bad idea, poo poo the bed.
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Jan 27, 2023 04:01
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Captain Apollo posted:I don't know what the deal is, but Unraid 6.11.5 is absolutely crap for me. I thought it was a USB thumb drive problem but I switched that out and installed Unraid 6.9.2 Huh. This is sort of what I've been running into trying to setup my ML30. Wonder if that's the root of my issues instead of lack of RAM. My 32GB of UDIMM ram shows up tomorrow so I can test it and figure it out finally.
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Jan 27, 2023 04:24
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Absolutely do not even attempt Unraid 6.11.5 anymore. I've lost 5 days of sleep on that bullshit. On boot up the server would give me "unable to wirite on file because out of space... or some bullshit. The last stable version 6.9 or whatever is absolutely rock solid. This is my first Unraid and NAS setup ever so I'm really flying blind but gently caress Unraid 6.11.5
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Jan 27, 2023 04:37
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I appear to be on 6.11.5 fwiw with no issues. I just hit upgrade whenever it tells me to hah.
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Jan 27, 2023 05:08
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SpartanIvy posted:It has a 2 year warranty which should cover most failures. This is my approach to drives these days as well. Buy used/refurb/whatever from a seller and marketplace with a warranty at least good enough to make you whole on DOA, test the drives thoroughly when you get them, and use the savings to buy at least one spare.
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Jan 27, 2023 05:40
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I bought 2x Toshiba Canvio Basic 4tb external drives to keep as rotating offsite backups of my Synology NAS. I set the first one to back up last night using Hyper Backup, and after running for twelve hours it’s still only 93% done. Is this normal/expected for just 300gb of files? Did I make a mistake enabling compression, given that 2/3 of the files are JPEGs and compressed RAW photos anyhow? I also turned on encryption, if that makes a difference.
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Jan 27, 2023 08:49
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I think that may be an SMR drive. Those typically have a smaller CMR part of the platters for use as an ingestion buffer, and then they move the data onto the slower SMR part on their own while idle. If you do a long continuous write, you exhaust the CMR space and start seeing the raw SMR write speed instead. E: To clarify, read speeds from SMR are fine, it's just finicky to write. (And it allows higher data densities, which is the reason it's used in the first place.) Computer viking fucked around with this message at 11:13 on Jan 27, 2023 |
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Jan 27, 2023 11:11
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I see thanks. I guess I shouldn’t worry then. Usually I’ll add at most 30gb of data each backup so hopefully subsequent backups will be much faster.
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Jan 27, 2023 11:30
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Read speeds on SMR go to poo poo as soon as you're trying to read something that the firmware can't predict. That's why SMR is so bad when using ZFS, because while a resilver might look sequential to the drive being written to, the drives it's being read end up experiencing random I/O.
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Jan 27, 2023 12:40
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Computer viking posted:I think that may be an SMR drive. Those typically have a smaller CMR part of the platters for use as an ingestion buffer, and then they move the data onto the slower SMR part on their own while idle. If you do a long continuous write, you exhaust the CMR space and start seeing the raw SMR write speed instead. Normally SMR is also fine with large continuous writes, because you're not fighting the SMR layout with that: the drive writes a track, then writes the next overlapping track, then the next. It shouldn't need to cache to a buffer, and it doesn't have to re-write tracks. Even then you get some speed drops because the drive has added housekeeping to record, but using SMR drives to write big images and such is normally pretty fine. SMR drives fall over with modifying data already written, or when they get really full, or with weird chunk-y write patterns (ZFS). I dunno, I think either the toshiba drive is especially crap (it's a 2.5" laptop drive which toshiba doesn't even give "up to" performance stats for, this is totally possible) or Hyper Backup is writing data in ways that are SMR-unfriendly. edit: actually it has nothing to do with SMR. Hyper Backup on synology does de-duplication so initial runs are very slow. It's 100% from the NAS side because it has to make hashes for everything. Klyith fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Jan 27, 2023 |
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Jan 27, 2023 15:50
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I bit the bullet and going to do some upgrades to my unraid server. It's currently got 2 parity drives and 32 TB of storage (8 drives total). The case has no more room for more drives and my array is at 92% full. Ordered a new case (Rosewill RSV-L4412U) that gives me 12 hot swappable 3.5" bays. Ordered a new cache drive to replace my cache drive that seems to be failing, going from 256 to 1tb on it Ordered four new 12 TB drives, those seagate ones someone just linked. It's half as much as buying the same size easy stores to shuck. This will make every sata port I have available on my server into a hotswap tray. After I get everything installed, I will most likely decommission 2 of my 4tb drives, which should give me a final number of 64TB in the array, with 2 open hard drive slots. Captain Apollo posted:Absolutely do not even attempt Unraid 6.11.5 anymore. I've lost 5 days of sleep on that bullshit. I am not sure what my issue is with Unraid lately, I think it has to do with my cache drive. I've used it since 2018 and had uptimes of over 6 months in a stretch, with really the only issue has been longer power outages. Lately my docker service just decides to poo poo the bed and refuses to restart without an error until I do a hard reboot, this happens every 1-2 weeks. nerox fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Jan 27, 2023 |
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Jan 27, 2023 21:28
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 ML30 Gang I received my 32GB of RAM from this auction today and plugged it in. It seems to be working fine but I'm running MemTest86 on it right now. Interestingly it shows as "Multi-bit ECC" in both the BIOS and Unraid, but MemTest86 shows it as Non-ECC. I wonder if that's a BIOS limitation? Before starting MemTest86, I went ahead and tried to install the NVIDIA Driver that had been causing my "Out of Space" error before, and it installed just fine this time. So perhaps the issue was that the 4GB wasn't enough for it to install. With the NVIDIA Driver installed, the system idles at around 9-10% RAM utilization, which isn't far off from 4 GB. SpartanIvy fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Jan 28, 2023 |
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Jan 28, 2023 01:08
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SpartanIvy posted:
hell yeah
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