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Eric the Mauve posted:Messier was a beloved face this is cruel phrasing
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Jan 26, 2023 18:58
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Yes you were wrong about Jagr's last 7 years being mediocre (the post you quoted), thank you for admitting that. Whether Messier's last 7 years were actually mediocre is debatable. He played on some really bad teams and still produced at an admirable level but my memories of him defensively in that era are not positive, but a lot of that could just be optics.
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Jan 26, 2023 19:02
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Matt Zerella posted:https://twitter.com/DaveyUpper/status/1618419805824118785?s=20&t=FCTifrpLBvhYmG5uW8Zgrw I haven’t seen any of the stats, but eye test wise I think they did play really well, it seemed like they were constantly in the Toronto end, I thought our best line on the night for sure.
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Jan 26, 2023 19:03
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I gotta admit I'm really enjoying Rangers prospect ennui now that Jack Hughes is a top 5 player in the NHL
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Jan 26, 2023 19:08
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Ginger Beer Belly posted:Holy poo poo Slovakia ... https://youtu.be/PrehDucjHjs Straight into the water bottle even. This is a thing of beauty.
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Jan 26, 2023 19:12
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ThinkTank posted:I can't believe I'm doing this again, but man no Lidstrom is the 2nd best defenceman ever. He is the only defenceman over the age of 35 to have won the Norris Trophy in the expansion era, having done so three times including at age 40 (the year before he retired). He also won four other Norris trophies and a Conn Smythe for good measure. He made the playoffs every single year of his career and only retired because he wasn't interested in going through a rebuild. He likely had another 5 seasons in him if he'd wanted to keep going, his play had barely declined by age 41 when he hung them up. Eric the Mauve posted:We're talking about the last few years of his career here, which were pretty good but no really no better than the last few year's of Messier's. Messier is underrated as a player because he's a dick and because the tail end of his career was so Kafkaesque.
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Jan 26, 2023 19:17
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Hasek has a higher playoff sv% than Roy Roy had three conn smythes tho that is a bit of a team trophy I suppose but it's the same argument I'm gonna use to say Crosby is better than McDavid so anyone reading this shut your pretty mouth
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Jan 26, 2023 19:24
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enjoy seeing posters talk about all the things that Bourque didn't win as evidence of his greatness
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Jan 26, 2023 19:25
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Matt Zerella posted:https://twitter.com/DaveyUpper/status/1618419805824118785?s=20&t=FCTifrpLBvhYmG5uW8Zgrw yeah they did well, Kakko still the straw the stirs the drink on whatever line he's on and Chytil can score 'em, but the rest of the lines seemed blah from what I saw. Gallant is just too cute with his bullshit line juggling at this point. The Chytil faceoff goal was great too though Rangers feel like a team that can't decide if they want to be a good competitive team or not. ThinkTank posted:Hasek is twice the goaltender either Roy or Brodeur was. He should be higher on the list. He had 81 shutouts in 735 games and unlike those other two guys did not play on defence oriented super teams. Hasek was definitely more skilled. Brodeur was a good goalie for sure but most of his accomplishments also come from starting in the league at 20, playing a shitload of games every year, and spending his prime years playing behind a stacked team with multiple hall of fame defensemen in front of him. Was he a "fraud" or bad goalie that doesn't deserve accolades? No, but definitely wasn't the most skilled goalie and his numbers success is in huge part thanks to his teams. Eric the Mauve posted:Lidstrom was better than Bourque at everything except rippin' shots Also true. I feel like Lidstrom got better in his 30's as well rather than tailing off Eric the Mauve posted:We're talking about the last few years of his career here, which were pretty good but no really no better than the last few year's of Messier's. Messier is underrated as a player because he's a dick and because the tail end of his career was so Kafkaesque. His return to NY left a bitter taste in the mouth because it was kind of like "look I'm back to lead the Rangers to the promised land again because I'm The Captain!" and then he did dick all for that because he was over the hill and the teams were terrible because they were constructed terribly. I remember rumors that he'd just hang out and read the newspaper and poo poo during practices because he was The Captain and didn't have to do that poo poo, the teams were country clubs, etc. I think at that point hockey was definitely evolving past dicking around in practice and playing yourself into shape in the preseason and all that kinda stuff and systems and details were getting more finely tuned and Messier's response was to I dunno tell people to play harder probably. Yeah he put up some decent points but he floated a lot
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Jan 26, 2023 19:26
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Crosby stole Kessel's Conn Smythe that first year. It was a total reputational award because he's Gary's beautiful boy. His second Conn Smythe was deserved though.Levitate posted:Hasek was definitely more skilled. Brodeur was a good goalie for sure but most of his accomplishments also come from starting in the league at 20, playing a shitload of games every year, and spending his prime years playing behind a stacked team with multiple hall of fame defensemen in front of him. Was he a "fraud" or bad goalie that doesn't deserve accolades? No, but definitely wasn't the most skilled goalie and his numbers success is in huge part thanks to his teams. Oh yeah, I don't want anyone to think that I'm calling Brodeur, Roy or Bourque anything other than fantastic generational talents. It's no shame to be second best, I'm sure Brodeur and Roy are pretty satisfied with their careers considering the multiple Stanley Cups each won. Just like McDavid is incredible and the most skilled player in the league, but he's still not as good as Gretzky. ThinkTank fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jan 26, 2023 |
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Jan 26, 2023 19:26
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Eric the Mauve posted:We're talking about the last few years of his career here, which were pretty good but no really no better than the last few year's of Messier's. Messier is underrated as a player because he's a dick and because the tail end of his career was so Kafkaesque. I've always hated that mother fucker
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Jan 26, 2023 19:34
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mennoknight posted:Spector also wrote this right before they lost to the blue jackets in overtime
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Jan 26, 2023 19:36
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https://twitter.com/FriedgeHNIC/status/1618679646559830016?t=aS2cBV5NyZVfg05kqXw2lA&s=19 https://twitter.com/HockeyAgent1/status/1618679499423633409?t=pk18J-GQF54UOkn7ZclmPA&s=19 I'm mostly fine with that
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Jan 26, 2023 19:39
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mennoknight posted:I've always hated that mother fucker
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Jan 26, 2023 19:40
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Borque going to Colorado to win made me loathe Borque and Boston fans
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Jan 26, 2023 19:40
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The Golden Man posted:Borque going to Colorado to win made me loathe Borque and Boston fans https://twitter.com/anezbitt/status/1056751106011758594 Islanders fans would have stabbed him
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Jan 26, 2023 19:42
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What huge losers
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Jan 26, 2023 19:43
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ThinkTank posted:https://twitter.com/FriedgeHNIC/status/1618679646559830016?t=aS2cBV5NyZVfg05kqXw2lA&s=19 Besides the 12 team no-trade clause this is a decent deal, this pretty much ensures Horvat is gone too
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Jan 26, 2023 19:44
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The Dirty Burger posted:Besides the 12 team no-trade clause this is a decent deal, this pretty much ensures Horvat is gone too that'd be fair value if he stopped scoring today through the end of the season Potentially a damned steal
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Jan 26, 2023 19:45
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One of my favorite Brodeur memories, partly because of Gary Thorne's hilarious call https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PoIWzd__uA  HE GOT TIED UP AND LOST HIS STICK
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Jan 26, 2023 19:45
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ThinkTank posted:Crosby stole Kessel's Conn Smythe that first year. It was a total reputational award because he's Gary's beautiful boy. His second Conn Smythe was deserved though. Crosby took tougher matchups and had tougher zone start deployments. Total points were fairly similar though Kessel had more goals. I think you can make a good argument for Letang getting that CS too tbh. He was a total beast that playoffs and put up 15 points which wasn't that far off Kessel or Crosby.
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Jan 26, 2023 19:46
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fawning deference posted:Just look at Hasek's 98-99 season. It's probably the best single goalie season of the modern era when you look at that Sabres roster. They went to the fn finals that year Yeah I don't think Roy or Brodeur coulda have gotten that roster to the finals
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Jan 26, 2023 19:47
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El Gallinero Gros posted:Yeah I don't think Roy or Brodeur coulda have gotten that roster to the finals I think people forget how stratified team payrolls were prior to the salary cap. The Red Wings, Avs and Rangers consistently spent $30-40m more per year than most other teams.
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Jan 26, 2023 19:52
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The trapezoid is practically the Martin Brodeur rule, and practically every goalie for several generations emulated Patrick Roy's style. Those two things should probably be taken into consideration.
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Jan 26, 2023 19:55
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Good soup! posted:One of my favorite Brodeur memories, partly because of Gary Thorne's hilarious call Thought the puck was a ring ding.
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Jan 26, 2023 19:58
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Simplex posted:The trapezoid is practically the Martin Brodeur rule, and practically every goalie for several generations emulated Patrick Roy's style. Those two things should probably be taken into consideration. They are the Citizen Kane of goalies.
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Jan 26, 2023 20:00
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I think one of Brodeur's greatest assets was the puck handling and it no doubt added a lot of value in his career. From the goal line back, that was his office and he literally changed the way teams play because you pretty much couldn't dump and chase because he's go get it and fire an outlet pass out of the zone and catch you
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Jan 26, 2023 20:00
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Matt Zerella posted:https://twitter.com/DaveyUpper/status/1618419805824118785?s=20&t=FCTifrpLBvhYmG5uW8Zgrw yeah Kakko was beasting. he actually made another play in the defensive zone to stop Matthews from getting a one-timer in the slot. the end of the game/OT/third was a lot of "neither team really truly wants to win this game". Leafs and the Rangers seem like similar teams in that there's a lot of talent but, y'know, jeeze.
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Jan 26, 2023 20:04
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Kessel definitely deserved the Smythe over Crosby in '16 because forwards' defense is unimportant.
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Jan 26, 2023 20:10
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ThinkTank posted:https://twitter.com/FriedgeHNIC/status/1618679646559830016?t=aS2cBV5NyZVfg05kqXw2lA&s=19 Yes, in isolation it's not a bad deal, but then they gotta trade Horvat.
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Jan 26, 2023 20:10
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Also: Hasek was really good. if you put a gun to my head though and asked me to pick one goalie in their prime with my life on the line, it's prime Roy. which means he's a better player IMO. he's proved it. it's also why I go Chris Pronger as the #2 defenseman over Lidstrom/Bourque/etc. Bourque put up good numbers on lovely teams and never won the big one as the guy. He's not in the top-top tier. Lidstrom is not far behind Pronger, and I'm willing to admit that I didn't watch enough Denis Potvin to affirmatively say otherwise. But he at least produced the goods. Life on the line, since 67 I go: Orr Pronger Lidstrom/Potvin Niedermayer Leetch Robinson Stevens Coffey MacInnis Bourque Keith Chara
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Jan 26, 2023 20:14
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ThinkTank posted:Crosby stole Kessel's Conn Smythe that first year. It was a total reputational award because he's Gary's beautiful boy. His second Conn Smythe was deserved though. Eric the Mauve posted:Kessel definitely deserved the Smythe over Crosby in '16 because forwards' defense is unimportant. Crosby stole MAF's Conn Smythe the second year for not being MAF long enough for Murray to come back. I'm going to argue until the end of time Pittsburgh sure as hell doesn't get through Washington (if not Columbus) if he's even average.
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Jan 26, 2023 20:15
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The Rangers bottom six definitely crushed their opposites on the Leafs end which is not terribly surprising, the Rangers top guys like Panarin and Fox were pretty quiet though. Moneypuck had the Rangers and Leafs basically even on xG until the Rangers took the lead in the second, then they didn't generate anything defending the lead and the Leafs took off (Kreider's PP miss wasn't technically a shot so doesn't count towards xG). Only the Rangers third and fourth lines ended up positive by the end of the game, the Leafs only negative players were their bottom 6 (and Benn lol).
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Jan 26, 2023 20:15
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Pronger's peak was probably better than Lidstrom's but in terms of career Lidstrom takes the cake
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Jan 26, 2023 20:17
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fawning deference posted:Pronger's peak was probably better than Lidstrom's but in terms of career Lidstrom takes the cake maybe. "best full career" doesn't make sense for me as a rubric for this type of thing. I always go with the "gun to my head" test and look at their primes. if you're building a team for a full career, yeah, it'd Lidstrom (especially if you're in Canada or anywhere cold because of Pronger's wife)
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Jan 26, 2023 20:22
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ImplicitAssembler posted:Yes, in isolation it's not a bad deal, but then they gotta trade Horvat. Yes, my relative support of this move is entirely presupposed on them moving Horvat for a pure futures package. If they keep him then I don't know what to say.
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Jan 26, 2023 20:22
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Albino Squirrel posted:Some kid named Johnson scored and for a second I was like "we lost to Jack Motherfucking Johnson?" Once upon a time, this would've been accurate. (Offer still valid with the Blackhawks!) But since the opportunity has been offered to brag: https://twitter.com/BlueJacketsNHL/status/1618479849089208321 -He went five-hole on Darnell Nurse and then got it past the goalie. Kid's good. -Johnny Gaudreau has now been booed in four buildings this season. -Who knew their rival's best player walking in free agency would be the thing that, in some strange way and perhaps for only one moment, united the Battle of Alberta? e- Second-straight OT winner for KJ in that building following the Golden Goal* in the World Juniors. *Are Canadians the only ones who use the phrase "Golden Goal"? I don't remember hearing it in any context other than international tournaments they win. CBJSprague24 fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Jan 26, 2023 |
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Jan 26, 2023 20:25
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https://twitter.com/JFreshHockey/status/1618690353451909120 but why E: lmao whoops
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Jan 26, 2023 20:26
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I like Lidstrom a lot but I'll give special marks to the Prongers and Stevenses of the world because the NHL lets those players do their thing in the playoffs. The Rangers beat the Pens last year because of Trouba's elbow. Stevens changed so many playoff series with his elbow/shoulder. Pronger would literally step on a man to win. As long as the NHL allows that behavior in the playoffs - and they still do even to this day - it's gonna be a real valuable thing to have in a player when you get there. If it were a one game or playoff type situation I might take Pronger or Stevens over Lidstrom just because of that. because they might kill a guy and turn a series in your favor off of it
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Jan 26, 2023 20:28
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Koopa Kid posted:(Kreider's PP miss wasn't technically a shot so doesn't count towards xG) Huh? Was it not a shot attempt? Ginette Reno posted:As long as the NHL allows that behavior in the playoffs - and they still do even to this day Chuckling at the notion that it's only in the playoffs.
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