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Yeah paralogues were like recruiting stuff in the past, and hell 3H's were about powering up/acquiring heroic relics, so, exactly the same as in Engage? I guess the only difference is there's no real story significance to why Marth is stronger now, unless you are an older fan and recognize that they are just straight up porting maps/mechanics from the older games to them. Leif's paralogue sure makes you aware what kind of game Thracia is. (Filled with and countered by bullshit)
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Feb 1, 2023 03:42
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Eimi posted:Hey five is better than zero.
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Feb 1, 2023 03:42
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Actually Jean is important because without him we wouldn't have this https://twitter.com/tray790x/status/1616594121015033856?s=20
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Feb 1, 2023 03:42
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i cannot fathom someone saying they recruited every character on every playthrough of 3H and then saying the writing is good because it removes a ton of baseline conflict what the hell
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Feb 1, 2023 03:43
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Endorph posted:theres just an inherent disconnect going on here where taear hasnt played an FE besides three houses so the things and trends that seem normal to longterm fans seem completely alien to them because their conception of the series is based on 3h. 'a random sidequest to recruit a random character who isnt even that important' is a totally normal FE thing but its completely inexplicable coming at it from 3h. Right again. I don't think the idea of a paralogue to recruit a totally pointless character in itself is weird. I don't think the idea of fire emblem having recruitment is weird. What I do think is weird is that the rest of the paralogues in the game are totally different and having the ONLY paralogues in the game that recruit characters be the famous gimmick character who is in every fire emblem then some random kid IS weird. I'm not saying "Recruiting characters?? What the gently caress??" I'm saying "The game set me up at the start to expect this to be a common thing but it's literally five times and only one of those five is a new character with their own quest" Eimi posted:Yeah paralogues were like recruiting stuff in the past, and hell 3H's were about powering up/acquiring heroic relics, so, exactly the same as in Engage? I guess the only difference is there's no real story significance to why Marth is stronger now, unless you are an older fan and recognize that they are just straight up porting maps/mechanics from the older games to them. Leif's paralogue sure makes you aware what kind of game Thracia is. (Filled with and countered by bullshit) Leif's paralogue was the hardest fight in the entire game for me and the only one I actually died in (before that point I didn't even know the time crystal had limited uses!)
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Feb 1, 2023 03:43
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Endorph posted:the group hug hortensia and her retainers have when you get them is cool but unfortunately if even one of them feels like going 'haha i gained a level +50 bond fragments my lord' it doesnt happen (and also they didnt actually model the group hug they just say its happening) It's just a weird decision, along with the fact that every character has 8 fully voiced wake up lines. And even if you like the Somniel minigames (I tried to catch all the fish before I got frustrated and quit), that's the only reason to ever use the naptime feature.  That they fully voiced those but let unique battlefield dialogue get overwritten AND not be voiced is pure insanity.
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Feb 1, 2023 03:44
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Taear posted:Right again. 5 times feels like a significant number of times though? And it happens twice, you're just discounting Anna because... ??? How many times are you expecting a recruit like that? Most FE games have about that many.
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Feb 1, 2023 03:44
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Taear posted:Right again. I guess what I'm saying is that, just like Anna, Jean is special. He's his own archetype: the sidequest/optional recruit kid who starts weak but shines with training. If anything 3H was the weird one for giving you its version of that (Cyril) without a side activity of any kind.
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Feb 1, 2023 03:46
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Zore posted:5 times feels like a significant number of times though? And it happens twice, you're just discounting Anna because... ??? Because she's the special gimmick character like I've said a bunch If she had a paralogue that was her own quest to recruit her and it was the only one in the game then sure, that's totally fine.
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Feb 1, 2023 03:46
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see i think you're still having that disconnect because thats just, how older FEs were made. like FE7, the first one in the US, had 9 gaiden chapters (what modern games would call paralogues) and only two of them had new units in them, and one of them was an extremely plot important antagonist who making a semi-secret recruit made sense and one of them was literally just Some Guy. like thats just how the series has always been. new units are introduced in a variety of somewhat arbitrary ways, places, and times.
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Feb 1, 2023 03:46
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the ones who have something most directly plot relevant are highlighted but a lot of others still say something that's new/location relevant but it doesn't distinguish between the generic responses/battle comment stuff and the new-but-not-as-plot-relevant ones it was nice that the three houses characters had something new to say every time pretty much, not a huge deal but it was nice to have that little bit of extra flavour, while engage's approach is a bit more half-baked three houses was my first fe and idk what the complaint is supposed to be about jean's paralogue. there's two side chapters where you get new characters, and then a whole lot for the emblems, it makes sense in context. what's supposed to be weird about it, that it's just the early ones where you get new characters? i do get that it's maybe easy to miss recruiting lindon etc. if you're not familiar, the talk icon isn't the most obvious and it could be easy to just not bring ivy/hortensia to that map and send alear to fight on the other side to where lindon is, but that's an unrelated issue lih fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Feb 1, 2023 |
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Feb 1, 2023 03:48
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Jean gets a paralogue map because much like Anna it is not part of the main story and is just a side-thing. There shoulda been more like that imo but game already has quite a few maps so I get it.
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Feb 1, 2023 03:48
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Taear posted:Because she's the special gimmick character like I've said a bunch Jean is also a recurring gimmick archetype of the series though, he's in a line of characters that have the exact same setup and a 'level 1 but with a special growths skill' gimmick. Anna is if anything the weirder one from a Fire Emblem perspective. This is the first time she hasn't been a throw away late game character or DLC. Heck she's only been playable fairly recently, before that she was just a recurring shopkeeper sprite.
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Feb 1, 2023 03:48
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Endorph posted:see i think you're still having that disconnect because thats just, how older FEs were made. like FE7, the first one in the US, had 9 gaiden chapters (what modern games would call paralogues) and only two of them had new units in them, and one of them was an extremely plot important antagonist who making a semi-secret recruit made sense and one of them was literally just Some Guy. like thats just how the series has always been. new units are introduced in a variety of somewhat arbitrary ways, places, and times. In 3H the paralogues are set up as "here's a way that a few [sorta arbitrary] characters can bond and we learn new stuff about them in the process" Each paralogue works that way even if it gives you different stuff by the end of it. In this the game tells me at the start that paralogues are where I'll get new characters. And hey cool, that's fine. But after the first two that never happens again. If both were special characters in some way (lets say it was Anna and like Zephia) I'd be on board. As it is, it just felt strange. Like a concept they'd wanted to use from the old games but decided against it after the start Maybe I'd have noticed what Jean was like more if he'd had more to say. Like I never used Cyril even once but he's always around having a bit of a chat with you and doing stuff
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Feb 1, 2023 03:49
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Like, Anna being a series mascot doesn't "explain" why she's in a paralogue. She's in a paralogue because she's an optional party member, the same as Jean. 3H didn't make you do a paralogue to get Anna either. Even if you haven't played other FE games I just don't get why this is such a point of contention. Sure it's fair enough that you might think there will be more paralogues with optional party members but then the game didn't, but why are you making a big deal out of it than just going "huh, ok" and moving on
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Feb 1, 2023 03:50
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jean having no story significance whatsoever is why he's a paralogue character. he's there for his gameplay gimmick.
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Feb 1, 2023 03:52
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Like I want to stress, here's every bit of wake up dialogue. It's over 4 hours long. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRVc2vior_U It's all voiced. Why did they voice this but cut back on the stuff you see like level up quotes or post battle dialogue?
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Feb 1, 2023 03:52
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blizzardvizard posted:Like, Anna being a series mascot doesn't "explain" why she's in a paralogue. She's in a paralogue because she's an optional party member, the same as Jean. 3H didn't make you do a paralogue to get Anna either. Sure it's fair enough that you might think there will be more paralogues with optional party members but then the game didn't, but why are you making a big deal out of it than just going "huh, ok" and moving on Because I think it's strange they did it and I feel like people are misunderstanding me, like I'm saying "whoa this is a totally new thing that I do not understand" instead of "I think it's an unusual thing to bring up this mechanic then only use it for the gimmick and a random guy" I guess for me stuff like this makes engage feel less together than 3H and leaning on a load of characters I don't know and the game seems to expect me to have a connection with (the emblems) also kinda ties together with that idea. I'd have way preferred a paralogue introducing all the characters! Eimi posted:Like I want to stress, here's every bit of wake up dialogue. It's over 4 hours long. Man I never even engaged with this part of the game, I remember it telling me about waking up but didn't really know the purpose of even sleeping
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Feb 1, 2023 03:52
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I did like the structure of 3H's paralogues, with them being character-driven and sometimes featuring odd pairings of characters (Mercedes and Caspar, for example). The Emblem paralogues in this are fun and make sense for what this game's trying to do, but character paralogues would've been a good way to highlight some more secondary cast members who don't have major roles in the main story.
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Feb 1, 2023 03:55
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I do agree that the Emblems are pretty flat in terms of characterization. The way they are used mechanically to compliment the story is really cool but in terms of personality they are basically cardboard cutouts lol
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Feb 1, 2023 03:55
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Alear why the hell do you not lock the door to your bedroom when you go to sleep when you have these weirdos living in your house.
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Feb 1, 2023 03:56
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Cythereal posted:Alear why the hell do you not lock the door to your bedroom when you go to sleep when you have these weirdos living in your house. "Watching the Divine Dragon sleep has been a religious observance for a millennium and we're not about to stop now that you wake up sometimes" - all of Elyos, apparently
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Feb 1, 2023 03:57
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Augus posted:I do agree that the Emblems are pretty flat in terms of characterization. The way they are used mechanically to compliment the story is really cool but in terms of personality they are basically cardboard cutouts lol Yea I'd be totally fine with the way they're characterised if the game didn't CONSTANTLY tell me how important they are and then have sad scenes with them I get it's an anniversary release and that they want to call back to the previous ones but eh for me the entire bit felt very self referential, like watching series 30 of a show I've not seen 1-29 of I think also the fact that they have a voiced (short) bonding conversation for EVERY emblem with EVERY character is pretty wild
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Feb 1, 2023 03:59
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Taear posted:In 3H the paralogues are set up as "here's a way that a few [sorta arbitrary] characters can bond and we learn new stuff about them in the process"
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Feb 1, 2023 03:59
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like its not a concept from the old games they decided against. its how the old games worked! the old games were also this random!
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Feb 1, 2023 04:01
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I definitely agree that 3H felt tighter in terms of introducing characters to you, at least. Granted it was more because you have a smaller cast in each route, but I feel like I don't have time to get to know Engage's characters before the game throws the next batch at me. Adding character paralogues like 3H to Engage would probably bloat this game a bit since it's already got emblem paralogues, but I think the game would benefit from having a short cutscene at the base between the royals and their retainers after recruiting them, just to introduce them properly and give you a better sense of their characters.
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Feb 1, 2023 04:01
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Endorph posted:3h is an abberation in the series and there is basically nothing else that functions like it an there will probably be nothing else that does again I dunno, 3H was really popular and I wouldn't be surprised to see some more of its ideas come back again at some point, even if its exact structure isn't done again. Like I wouldn't expect another four-route game centered around an academy with a super free-form class system, but at the same time I also wouldn't be surprised to see another Fire Emblem with that heavier focus on the social side again at some point.
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Feb 1, 2023 04:04
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Getting characters via story or weird side chapters make much more sense than giving some teen a bunch of gifts then having them leave all their friends to join your class and eventually fight against their own nation.
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Feb 1, 2023 04:08
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Hell Radiant Dawn's entire part 4 is basically "here's some random unit, why are they here, who knows, just take them."
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Feb 1, 2023 04:10
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Funky Valentine posted:Hell Radiant Dawn's entire part 4 is basically "here's some random unit, why are they here, who knows, just take them."
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Feb 1, 2023 04:11
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I liked Three Houses having a darker story and setting and they probably will do that again at some point, especially if the FE4 remake is a real thing. I don't have any desire to see Three Houses's structure return as I think it did a complete disservice to that setting and those characters by spreading the development resources so thin they definitely know how popular Three Houses is, there's a reason they led with Edelgard, Dimitri, and Claude to sell the DLC Augus fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Feb 1, 2023 |
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Feb 1, 2023 04:13
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Anyway I really hope Engage is selling well because I really want more games like it. Other types or tones or structures of story are cool too, I just want more gameplay and maps like this. And yes I am planning on taking a tour of the older games that I haven't played yet once I wrap up this playthrough
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Feb 1, 2023 04:13
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Endorph posted:gareth would kill the average three houses player
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Feb 1, 2023 04:13
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Harrow posted:Anyway I really hope Engage is selling well because I really want more games like it. Other types or tones or structures of story are cool too, I just want more gameplay and maps like this. Yeah it's really hard to understate how good the gameplay is in Engage. It's hard mode feels just perfectly balanced and it's basically like the experience of playing the GBA games for the first time for me. FE hasn't felt this good to just play in a looooong loooong time. Awakening had pair up and just stat buffing yourself until you become a god and remove the game part of the video game, Fates was skill stacking hell, Echoes was too faithful to Gaiden for it's own good, and 3H hard was waaaay too easy and the maps were not great to begin with.
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Feb 1, 2023 04:16
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Funky Valentine posted:The virgin 3H "WE'RE ABOUT TO GET ~POLITICAL~ UP IN HERE", the chad "do you remember that one guy who had two lines in the previous game? No? Too loving bad, he's force deployed."
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Feb 1, 2023 04:31
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Are Lapis and Citrine the only retainers to get cutscene time?
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Feb 1, 2023 04:33
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I really like the revival stones mechanic and I hope it becomes a mainstay. Rout maps suck but I think defeat boss maps also suck generally, especially when the game gives you tools like Warp, Dance, and Stride. With some of those maps you need to pretend that you can't just bumrush the boss if you want to actually play the map (looking at 3H's Flame Emperor map as an especially bad example), and I think revival stones is an elegant solution. It's still possible to bumrush the bosses in Engage I'm sure, but the game's definitely gonna make you work for it and you actually have a good reason to clear out the enemies around the boss before trying to fight them now.
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Feb 1, 2023 04:34
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i have mixed bag with the revivals mostly because any time it was a wizard character it became a deadly rush to murder them down, burning through all stones in one turn and gently caress everyone else if need be, where as anytime it was a physical attack it was always far more relaxed wizards are too deadly, in a mixture of louis gets hard countered and because they're more accurate to your dodge crew. and ofc the boss does a huge amount of damage admittedly mauvier is the huge stand out everytime he appears while the rest get run over
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Feb 1, 2023 04:39
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Taear posted:But is it the only paralogue in the game where you recruit someone? The ONLY one, outside of Anna who like I said already is Anna so is a special case Louis very much should never stop talking about tea, because the alternative tends to be him being a creeper.
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Feb 1, 2023 04:40
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Finished the game on Hard/Classic. Really outstanding. It is up there with the best Fire Emblems for sure! Certainly the best maps and gameplay in the series, even if Hard gets too easy in the last 15% after a strong throughline prior to then. I got my S rank with Yunaka. Veyle was my favorite character in the game overall. MVP share was dominated by Alear, Ivy, Panette (with Ike), and Kagetsu (Hero). Hardest map in the game was Lyn's paralogue. Honorable mention to Ike's. Beats Three Houses for best music in the series already. Its reign was powerful but short lived.
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