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also one thing i think is pretty undeniable about engage is that its writing is way better at two specific things, gameplay/story integration and meta narrative (as in implications regarding the franchise itself and its history). the latter one is mostly a moot point because outside of a few fe4 nods 3h isnt really doing the latter, but the former is actually pretty interesting like 3h is trying to make this big point about how the Crests Are To Blame and power/social structures but all this amounts to is commoners having a 5% lower luck growth in their base class and like, whats the most impactful crest gameplay wise. felix getting +5 damage when he doesnt have a batallion? even there he usually wants a batallion by midgame. heck theres points where the gameplay and plot actively contradict each other. sylvain's brother turns into a giant monster when he tries using the lance of ruin but in actual gameplay you can have someone without a crest use it and theyll just take 10 damage. in some cases this can even be beneficial to trigger wrath and stuff. in engage's case comparatively it does a great job going 'these are the engage rings, they are really powerful' and then showing off their power. mom charges at you from across the map, hortensia dumps a magazine on you, there's the clusterfuck in the church, etc. and there's smaller plot/story stuff. like (chapter 17ish) alear wants to leave the port in elusia to burn because everyone's already dead, everyones like 'omg alear how could you!! what if someone survived!!!', the hounds show up and you're forced to fight, theres two villages on the map. if you go to them, corrupted pop out. because alear was completely right and everyone in the port is already dead. its a good way of getting across the situation via gameplay. like even just in terms of thematic gameplay moment/feel, engage has generally tight, kinda clusterfuck-y maps when you're meant to feel panicked and more open maps with weaker enemies when you're meant to feel heroic. 3h barely does anything like that. the battle of the eagle and lion can be sort of a chaotic mess like its supposed to be if you charge right in, i guess? part of that is just 3h having weaker map design, but still
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Feb 1, 2023 21:21
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Zurai posted:Sorry, Engage's story is loving godawful. A huge part of the plot hinges on your entire team being so distracted by new people showing up that absolutely no one notices a character stealing rings from off the fingers of six different people -- including the Emblems tied to those rings! Then later on, you come across a kingdom that's part of the big alliance and knew about the Fell Dragon being revived for ages but never loving bothered to tell anybody because "you scratch your back, we'll scratch ours". And rather than even mentioning this fact, mentioning how maybe her mother would've still been alive if they'd bothered to let anyone know, she just shrugs and moves on. WTF? Not to mention it's a direct violation of their defensive alliance. Elusia attacked both Firene and Brodia, Solm knew about it, Solm still did jack poo poo.. No, sorry, the gameplay is pretty great, but the story would be better if it didn't actually exist. in the latter case im pretty sure they mean 'we knew about this already (as in they attacked us at the same time they attacked you'), not 'we knew about this before you knew about it'. theyre saying they were too busy protecting themselves to go help brodia/firene. and i mean the entire conceit of 3h's plot revolves around edelgard hiring an assassin to kill edelgard. im fine just tolerating some jank if it gets the pieces where they need to be. veyle has darkness powers maybe she turned invisible or something. she stole the time crystal first and then just reset time over and over until she managed to grab the rings off of people's fingers. it doesnt really matter.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:22
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Endorph posted:like, talking about how mobile games are valid in the middle of this engage review - it isnt a mobile game! why are you getting on your weird soapbox! a lot of people saw marth in the first trailer, assumed it was a switch port of fire emblem heroes, and haven't updated their opinions since
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Feb 1, 2023 21:23
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Moving away from talking heads with text for cutscenes was unironically a bad move for the series. In this essay
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Feb 1, 2023 21:24
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My controversial opinion though, is that I like both Engage and 3H and I think both are good additions to the series.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:25
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Engage's story passed the highest test I can muster: I hooted often, and even hollered, on occasion
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Feb 1, 2023 21:25
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Zurai posted:Sorry, Engage's story is loving godawful. A huge part of the plot hinges on your entire team being so distracted by new people showing up that absolutely no one notices a character stealing rings from off the fingers of six different people -- including the Emblems tied to those rings! In this case she used the time crystal (Alear says as much) to steal them. Nobody noticed because it happened instantly, she didn't just walk up and casually grab them.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:26
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Zurai posted:Sorry, Engage's story is loving godawful. A huge part of the plot hinges on your entire team being so distracted by new people showing up that absolutely no one notices a character stealing rings from off the fingers of six different people -- including the Emblems tied to those rings! Then later on, you come across a kingdom that's part of the big alliance and knew about the Fell Dragon being revived for ages but never loving bothered to tell anybody because "you scratch your back, we'll scratch ours". And rather than even mentioning this fact, mentioning how maybe her mother would've still been alive if they'd bothered to let anyone know, she just shrugs and moves on. WTF? Not to mention it's a direct violation of their defensive alliance. Elusia attacked both Firene and Brodia, Solm knew about it, Solm still did jack poo poo.. No, sorry, the gameplay is pretty great, but the story would be better if it didn't actually exist. Besides what Endorph said for the second one they explicitly clarify that they're talking about the zombie attacks, not the Fell Dragon reawakening, Also for the first its explicitly time travel bullshit which Veyle does because she stole your time travel rock. Which is then cleverly implemented in parts of the next chapter where she keeps retconning which of her units she gave Emblems to as you take some of them out and ends when Ivy steals the thing back and gives it to you. Like those two things have explicit textual explanations.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:26
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I did really enjoy the feel of the retreat map. Especially because the party was locked to the party that was taken to the previous map. It felt like, well, a retreat. And if someone was playing iron man, imagine how hectic that would feel if you lost a couple of your dudes on the prior map. I agree with the integration being well done. Edit Yeah, I didn't mention the Time traveling enemy emblem rings. That was clever and a lot of fun.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:27
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Tae posted:[This meant that I ended up neglecting over half of my total roster—something that I rarely did in other Fire Emblem games.] Even in the GBA games you don't get 2-3 characters chapter every chapter There are a lot of characters
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Feb 1, 2023 21:28
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ultimately the tension here is just that, GBA excepted, fire emblem has basically never been an iterative series. FE4 was an incredibly popular game when it came out and brought in tons of new fans and even its own midquel didn't really capitalize on any of its mechanics, and to this day there's not been an FE game even remotely like FE4. I've literally seen the essays FE4 fans wrote about FE6 on 2001 internet and, 'bring Kaga back' excepted, the response to it is basically the same response a lot of 3H-exclusive fans are having to Engage.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:28
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Even in the GBA games you don't get 2-3 characters chapter every chapter binding blade has 52 playable characters. Blazing blade has 43. Sacred stones has 33. Engage has 36
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Feb 1, 2023 21:30
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Zurai posted:Sorry, Engage's story is loving godawful. A huge part of the plot hinges on your entire team being so distracted by new people showing up that absolutely no one notices a character stealing rings from off the fingers of six different people -- including the Emblems tied to those rings! Then later on, you come across a kingdom that's part of the big alliance and knew about the Fell Dragon being revived for ages but never loving bothered to tell anybody because "you scratch your back, we'll scratch ours". And rather than even mentioning this fact, mentioning how maybe her mother would've still been alive if they'd bothered to let anyone know, she just shrugs and moves on. WTF? Not to mention it's a direct violation of their defensive alliance. Elusia attacked both Firene and Brodia, Solm knew about it, Solm still did jack poo poo.. No, sorry, the gameplay is pretty great, but the story would be better if it didn't actually exist. I like to think in regards to your first part that since Veyle seemed to attribute the act to having the Crystal back, clearly she managed to swipe that first and then spent however long save scumming a Ghost rating on her heist. Oh wow, I was late. Caidin fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Feb 1, 2023 |
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Feb 1, 2023 21:30
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Notty posted:It really is wild that 3H has created an entire generation of fans not of Fire Emblem, but of Three Houses specifically. It was them finally adding meaningful LGBT representation - with no wink-wink-nudge-nudge chickenshit - in 3H that pushed me over the edge into getting started with the series, even if I actually then bought Awakening first because I didn't have a switch at the time. I do like the modern iterations of the series, but I think I'm always going to be wary of a new Fire Emblem release and try to evaluate whether I think it hits the right notes for me.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:31
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Endorph posted:ultimately the tension here is just that, GBA excepted, fire emblem has basically never been an iterative series. I'd say the 3DS games felt pretty iterative, or at least the ones that aren't a remake. Fates was an evolution of Awakening's gameplay mechanics in a lot of ways, and kept the child units, too.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:31
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Harrow posted:In this case she used the time crystal (Alear says as much) to steal them. Nobody noticed because it happened instantly, she didn't just walk up and casually grab them. I have to assume the people complaining about the story didn't pay much attention to what was happening, of all the things to complain about why pick the one that had a clear explanation.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:31
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:Even in the GBA games you don't get 2-3 characters chapter every chapter Eh, FE7 you get people at roughly the same pace. Lyn mode has you get 2 people per chapter except for Chapter 2 and 8. Then Chapters 11-16 are you getting fairly large chunks of characters per chapter (3-7) before it slows down and you get an average of 1 per chapter for the rest of the game which is higher than Engage. FE6 has an even bigger roster and keeps up the large chunk section for even longer. FE8 is the only one that doesn't go as hard because it has one of the smallest casts in the series.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:32
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Endorph posted:ultimately the tension here is just that, GBA excepted, fire emblem has basically never been an iterative series. FE4 was an incredibly popular game when it came out and brought in tons of new fans and even its own midquel didn't really capitalize on any of its mechanics, and to this day there's not been an FE game even remotely like FE4. I've literally seen the essays FE4 fans wrote about FE6 on 2001 internet and, 'bring Kaga back' excepted, the response to it is basically the same response a lot of 3H-exclusive fans are having to Engage. the one thing they do try to do, I think, is re-imagine some of the core ideas of previous games. Like "this thing was kind of neat, but also kind of janky, let's try it again and see if we can make it work better" Gaiden being the well they return to most often, of course So I guess what I'm saying is I wouldn't be surprised if like, in 2030 they go "three houses was neat, but also kind of sucked, let's try going back to the idea of being forced to fight your former allies" or whatever. But I agree that it's very unlikely they'll ever make like, a straight three houses 2
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Feb 1, 2023 21:33
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Notty posted:It really is wild that 3H has created an entire generation of fans not of Fire Emblem, but of Three Houses specifically. I respect them but they should endeavor to experience the classics. cheetah7071 posted:Engage's story passed the highest test I can muster: I hooted often, and even hollered, on occasion That's all you need
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Feb 1, 2023 21:33
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Harrow posted:In this case she used the time crystal (Alear says as much) to steal them. Nobody noticed because it happened instantly, she didn't just walk up and casually grab them. ... which she had to steal in the first place because Alear had it on his/her person. So it's still 100% her walking up and casually grabbing it because the veteran warriors in the room (Diamond, the Emblems...) just turned their back on the loving Fell Dragon. Judge Tesla posted:I have to assume the people complaining about the story didn't pay much attention to what was happening, of all the things to complain about why pick the one that had a clear explanation. Yeah, no. Veyle explicitly stole the Crystal from Alear while their backs were turned, she straight-up says it in the dialog. The ENTIRE PARTY of veteran, world-saving heroes who all defeated their own Dark Dragons ALL TURNED THEIR BACK ON THE DARK DRAGON AND HIS CHIEF MINION AND PAID NO ATTENTION TO HER. It's totally unbelievable. The mechanical part of the plot twist is fine, but the execution was the literal most incompetent garbage I've ever seen in a video game. Zurai fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Feb 1, 2023 |
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Feb 1, 2023 21:35
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Zurai posted:... which she had to steal in the first place because Alear had it on his/her person. So it's still 100% her walking up and casually grabbing it because the veteran warriors in the room (Diamond, the Emblems...) just turned their back on the loving Fell Dragon. It's actually the game has poor cutscene direction. Which hell, what FE doesn't? I forgive it.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:36
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Both of my 3 Houses playthroughs, in 2019 and 2022, started with me thinking "Wow this game's story is great", with the deliberately paced mystery and world building in the first half, and the imagined potential for all kinds of complicated plot threads when war broke out. Both times that turned to boredom and dissatisfaction in the second half, with the game rushing through or ignoring so many potential plot developments, jettisoning parts of the game depending on which path you chose, and overall just failing to deliver on the setup that I'd invested dozens of hours into. I didn't bother finishing my Crimson Flower playthrough because if the developers couldn't be bothered to finish it then why should I?
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Feb 1, 2023 21:36
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Zurai posted:... which she had to steal in the first place because Alear had it on his/her person. So it's still 100% her walking up and casually grabbing it because the veteran warriors in the room (Diamond, the Emblems...) just turned their back on the loving Fell Dragon. She is a telekinetic wizard and literally uses telekinesis in the same scene. A better question would presumably be [spoiler]why didn't she do this the next time[/spoiler,] but I haven't gotten there in the story, maybe she did/does try. Who knows.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:38
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3 Houses is very good and it's great Fire Emblem is a series that can maintain variety of tones, story telling and mechanics across games in the series. Engage is a much tighter experience though.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:38
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cheetah7071 posted:binding blade has 52 playable characters. Blazing blade has 43. Sacred stones has 33. Engage has 36 My theory here is that Engage feels like it has a lot of characters compared to previous games is because 1/3 of the roster isn't a bunch of axe dudes who have two lines at most.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:38
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To solve the “characters T-posing during important scenes” they should have just done what Metal Gear Peace Walker did and make all the cutscenes an animated comic. I’m sure the girl who did the character design would have made some banging panels too
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Feb 1, 2023 21:39
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Funky Valentine posted:My theory here is that Engage feels like it has a lot of characters compared to previous games is because 1/3 of the roster isn't a bunch of axe dudes who have two lines at most. I do agree that the recruit pacing is a bit weird. Like in Solm, the seven recruits you get are 3+3+1 instead of spreading them out more evenly over the five or six solm chapters It's also, legitimately, a place where having meaningful recruitment helps. A character who joins right at the start of the map feels very different from one you get halfway through.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:40
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Zurai posted:... which she had to steal in the first place because Alear had it on his/her person. So it's still 100% her walking up and casually grabbing it because the veteran warriors in the room (Diamond, the Emblems...) just turned their back on the loving Fell Dragon. they were momentarily distracted, she took advantage of it. also lol at 'the most incompetent garbage ive ever seen in a video game,' hi gamefaqs
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Feb 1, 2023 21:41
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cheetah7071 posted:I do agree that the recruit pacing is a bit weird. Like in Solm, the seven recruits you get are 3+3+1 instead of spreading them out more evenly over the five or six solm chapters FE engage recruitment list: (just a list of how many characters you get on each map, no names) Prologue: 1 (1) Chapter 1: 1 (2) Chapter 2: 2 (4) Chapter 3: 3 (7) Chapter 4: 3 (10) Chapter 5: 0 (10) Chapter 6: 1 (11) Chapter 7: 3 (14) Chapter 8: 2 (16) Chapter 9: 1 (17) Chapter 10: 0 (17) Chapter 11: 3 (20) Chapter 12: 3 (23) Chapter 13: 3 (26) Chapter 14: 1 (27) Chapter 15: 1 (28) Chapter 16: 2 (30) Chapter 17: 0 (30) Chapter 18: 1 (31) Chapter 19: 1 (32) Chapter 20: 0 (32) Chapter 21: 1 (33) Chapter 22: 1 (34) Chapter 23: 0 (34) Chapter 24: 0 (34) Chapter 25: 0 (34) Chapter 26: 0 (34) Chapter 27: 0 (34) Paralogue 1: 1 (35) Paralogue 2 1 (36) FE6 recruitment list: Chapter 1: 6 (6) Chapter 2: 6 (12) Chapter 3: 2 (14) Chapter 4: 2 (16) Chapter 5: 0 (16) Chapter 6: 3 (19) Chapter 7: 3 (22) Chapter 8: 5 (27) Chapter 9: 2 (29) Chapter 10: 2 (31) Chapter 11: 4 (35) Chapter 12: 2 (37) Chapter 13: 2 (39) Chapter 14: 2 (41) Chapter 15: 2 (43) Chapter 16: 3 (46) Chapter 17: 0 (46) Chapter 18: 0 (46) Chapter 19: 1 (47) Chapter 20: 1 (48) Chapter 21: 1 (49) Chapter 22: 0 (49) Chapter 23: 1 (50) Chapter 16x: 1 (51) you have more characters in fe6 by chapter 12 than you have in this entire game.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:42
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Funky Valentine posted:My theory here is that Engage feels like it has a lot of characters compared to previous games is because 1/3 of the roster isn't a bunch of axe dudes who have two lines at most. Its this
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Feb 1, 2023 21:42
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Game could use some random axe dudes if we're being honest.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:44
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i think what actually makes this roster feel slightly bloated to some people is the royal + retainers setup basically resulting in a cast thats 70% 'oh those two other guys.' rosado and goldmary pull an actual chapter to introduce themselves and a couple boss fights, kagetsu and zelkov at least rank a 'oh they helped turn the escape map around' reaction (and also a couple midboss appearances) but, like, bunet and pandreo get 5 lines in the main story and dont really do anything interesting in a mechanical sense in their join chapter. which, yeah, more diverse characters in terms of origin/place in the world and recruitment method does help the cast standout a bit more.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:44
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Funky Valentine posted:My theory here is that Engage feels like it has a lot of characters compared to previous games is because 1/3 of the roster isn't a bunch of axe dudes who have two lines at most. It doesn't feel like an overwhelmingly large cast, yet, but if it holds to form, I am expecting to recruit, uh, at least nine more characters. (I assume there'll coincidentally be two royals in the fourth country, each with two retainers). Who knows if we have other non-duo-of-trio weirdos like Anna, Yunaka, or Jean.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:44
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SyntheticPolygon posted:I respect them but they should endeavor to experience the classics. Yeah, on the one hand, I sympathize with people who got into the series with 3H and are feeling disappointed/letdown. On the other, speaking for me personally, Engage feels like the best new FE game I’ve played in a decade so maybe expand your horizons???
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Feb 1, 2023 21:45
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i think this game missing its timing in terms of an anniversary celebration game also is kinda muddying the waters a bit. not that new fans need not apply but its clearly not trying to be like, the new direction for the series, its trying to be a fun celebration of the series. i think if people were approaching it with that mindset theyd get it more than 'oh god they hate 3h and jettisoned everything i liked about it' or w/e
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Feb 1, 2023 21:52
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GateOfD posted:I think it would have been neat for unit variety if the sub-types wasn't tied to class but character. that way you have a bunch of really crazy options you can explore, like berserker/mysticals or swordmaster/coverts ect. I actually thought this was the case because Alfred is a Noble (cavalry) and Celine is a Noble (mystical). I guess those are just different classes? I'm still early (Ch 6)
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Feb 1, 2023 21:52
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Harrow posted:I admit I have a nagging fear that it'll go the same way, with the comparatively greater success of Three Houses sending the message that that's the direction the series should go in from here God I hope so, that'd be ideal! Endorph posted:i think what actually makes this roster feel slightly bloated to some people is the royal + retainers setup basically resulting in a cast thats 70% 'oh those two other guys.' rosado and goldmary pull an actual chapter to introduce themselves and a couple boss fights, kagetsu and zelkov at least rank a 'oh they helped turn the escape map around' reaction (and also a couple midboss appearances) but, like, bunet and pandreo get 5 lines in the main story and dont really do anything interesting in a mechanical sense in their join chapter. Maybe Amber as well? Who I thought was Diamant's boyfriend but now I'm not so sure
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Feb 1, 2023 21:52
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The next game will have *rolls dice* biorhythm
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Feb 1, 2023 21:55
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Tender Bender posted:I actually thought this was the case because Alfred is a Noble (cavalry) and Celine is a Noble (mystical). I guess those are just different classes? I'm still early (Ch 6)
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Feb 1, 2023 21:55
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Tender Bender posted:I actually thought this was the case because Alfred is a Noble (cavalry) and Celine is a Noble (mystical). I guess those are just different classes? I'm still early (Ch 6) They’re different classes under the hood. All the royals have a class named “Noble” with completely different growths and abilities that then promote to unique classes. Terper posted:The next game will have *rolls dice* biorhythm Can’t wait to ignore a random rear end waveform yet again.
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Feb 1, 2023 21:56
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