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Probably an unpopular opinion: I don't mind episodes like Captain's Holiday, and I think writing for Picard in the TNG era was a Kobayashi Maru. Fans wanted the captain to do more than sit on the bridge or brood in his Ready Room, but then objected to what they saw as "action hero Picard" in episodes like Starship Mine or some elements of First Contact. F_Shit_Fitzgerald fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Feb 7, 2023 |
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Feb 7, 2023 01:32
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Arivia posted:I know it presaged the Picard you’re all hating on but I just watched “Starship Mine” last night and it kicked loving rear end. “Birthright” was good too, both parts. Starship Mine is excellent, yes. Birthright is terrible and one of TNG's worst two-parters. The only good part is Bashir being ultra-fascinated by Data.
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Feb 7, 2023 01:47
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jeeves posted:I just love the story P-Stew once admitted years ago in some interview that he never paid attention to any of the "gobbledygook" of writing they had him say while filming, so he never understood any of the plots or stories of the episodes. It always seemed such gibberish to him, especially coming from a theatrical background of having an entire play in front of you to memorize at once. In fairness, I'm sure at least part of this was just due to the absolutely insane production schedules these shows all had. The actors didn't get to experience each episode as a neat little package that's easy to digest and appreciate. Everything was shot out of order, of course, but things were often written out of order as well, with revised script pages sometimes arriving just minutes before the cameras rolled. And of course the story might end up changed significantly in final editing anyway. They were already working 18-hour days just to get everything shot and didn't always have the energy left to closely follow every story. (The writer, director and editor were there to handle that, after all.) They might make the effort if an episode featured them heavily, but if it's one where their only line was in the briefing room scene in Act 2? They'd just say their bit about the miners on the moon of Glorpus III or whatever the gently caress, and then gladly take the half-day off to actually get to see their spouse and kids for a change.
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Feb 7, 2023 01:49
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Timby posted:Starship Mine is excellent, yes.
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Feb 7, 2023 02:09
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Rewatching Voyager and got to the episode where they transport prisoners to be executed and Neelix is shocked to discover racism
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Feb 7, 2023 04:48
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That’s also the one where the moral is “yeah turns out minorities are criminals”. God what a piece of poo poo episode.
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Feb 7, 2023 05:33
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Big Mean Jerk posted:The man is on record multiple times begging the TNG writers to let Picard do “more loving and fighting”. I genuinely don’t think he ever “got” the character and it’s been an absolute disaster giving him any say on the post-TNG projects. There was like a 2 vol book series of like an oral history of star trek and it had some dude explaining the concept was the first officer does the action while the captain stay on the ship. The wise old captain giving support to his juniors makes sense. better than that stupid diehard on the enterprise episode or that stupid indian jones poo poo HD DAD posted:That’s also the one where the moral is “yeah turns out minorities are criminals”. Ah tom paris. member when voyager fought nazi's
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Feb 7, 2023 05:55
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wesleywillis posted:A Klingon - ferengi mix would be sweet. 
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Feb 7, 2023 09:24
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I think I saw that painted on a Tilt-a-Whirl. Or it should be.
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Feb 7, 2023 10:14
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Ups_rail posted:There was like a 2 vol book series of like an oral history of star trek and it had some dude explaining the concept was the first officer does the action while the captain stay on the ship. The wise old captain giving support to his juniors makes sense. F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Probably an unpopular opinion: I don't mind episodes like Captain's Holiday, and I think writing for Picard in the TNG era was a Kobayashi Maru. Fans wanted the captain to do more than sit on the bridge or brood in his Ready Room, but then objected to what they saw as "action hero Picard" in episodes like Starship Mine or some elements of First Contact. Not a fan request, a PatStew demand, according to oral history books. All of those "Picard is an action hero"-episodes were done to appease PatStew and make him stop moaning about lack of "fighting & loving", or threatening to quit. Patrick Stewart growing tired of being the "team dad" just waiting for his junior officers to call home from their awesome adventures famously lead to the situation where The Best of Both Worlds part 1 was filmed without knowing if PatStew would be coming back for season 4. jeeves posted:I just love the story P-Stew once admitted years ago in some interview that he never paid attention to any of the "gobbledygook" of writing they had him say while filming, so he never understood any of the plots or stories of the episodes. I think its always sort of sad and pathetic when actors who are made big by one career-defining role then get all "I don't give a f**k about that character" or "I actually just hate the entire franchise". If you hate it so much, maybe stop milking it for money and do something else? Someone said earlier in this thread that "the greatest threat to Captain Picard was always Patrick Stewart", that fits and for a reason. Der Kyhe fucked around with this message at 11:23 on Feb 7, 2023 |
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Feb 7, 2023 11:19
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jeeves posted:Best of Both Worlds... Big Mean Jerk posted:“more loving and fighting”
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Feb 7, 2023 11:56
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:Probably an unpopular opinion: I don't mind episodes like Captain's Holiday, and I think writing for Picard in the TNG era was a Kobayashi Maru. Fans wanted the captain to do more than sit on the bridge or brood in his Ready Room, but then objected to what they saw as "action hero Picard" in episodes like Starship Mine or some elements of First Contact. For one thing, I don't recall much fan demand for more Action Picard, but nevertheless, those action-oriented episodes work so well precisely because they're the exception to the rule of the typical setup. When you have 25 episodes a season of Captain Picard being a strong leader and dispensing wisdom on the bridge, you can have one episode of breaking the mold as a treat. When that becomes the mold, it breaks the entire characterization and becomes something else entirely, something lovely and overwrought.
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Feb 7, 2023 14:34
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It's a wonderful treat into who he might have been and what he was like as a junior officer (after heart stabbing).
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Feb 7, 2023 15:15
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I think Action Picard works in small doses too because it reminds the auidence that startfleet is still kinda badass underneath the high mindedness.
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Feb 7, 2023 15:51
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wesleywillis posted:A Klingon - ferengi mix would be sweet. There is no honorable consumption under Capitalism.
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Feb 7, 2023 16:01
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CPColin posted:There is no honorable consumption under Capitalism. Worf: This capitalist consumption is WITHOUT HONOR!
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Feb 7, 2023 16:06
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bennyfactor posted:Worf: This capitalist consumption is WITHOUT HONOR! On the other hand, today is a good day to buy. 
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Feb 7, 2023 16:19
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What if the synthesis of Klingon social technology and Ferengi economic innovation produces wolf warrior fighters for Kahless-Leninism?
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Feb 7, 2023 16:19
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CPColin posted:On the other hand, today is a good day to buy. Klingon-Ferengi Bird-o'-Preysalesman: These prices are so low, I have dishonored myself! My father burns with shame! My mother has taken her own life! CALL THE NUMBER AT THE BOTTOM OF YOUR SCREEN!! AAAAGH *cuts hand open and wipes blood on face as calm narration voice lists warranty information*
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Feb 7, 2023 16:29
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The customer demand for action Picard is my demand that I'm making now for roided up torqued picard who crushes the heads of his enemies in his hands. e: And he looks like this.  e: And characters in the show itself call him Angry Picard. And the show is entitled Angry Picard. Prurient Squid fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Feb 7, 2023 |
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Feb 7, 2023 17:32
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I don’t mind Action Picard. Starship Mine, Gambit, even First Contact, they’re all perfectly fine stories for the character to show a different side than the pontificating diplomat. I just think it’s hilarious Stewart thought Picard needed to always be some cross between Riker and Worf and immediately tried to force it once he had a modicum of input in the writing. Stewart should have had someone just write him a generic action vehicle in the 90s (insert First Contact joke here) just to get that poo poo out of his system. He probably would’ve been good at it, or at least better than someone like Seagal. Hell, Lance Henriksen made a whole career out of playing scummy action movie heroes and villains (check out Stone Cold, it’s fantastic) after Aliens and he and Stewart aren’t that dissimilar.
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Feb 7, 2023 18:02
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Action Picard in TNG was fine since it was an occasional thing. Gotta mix it up when you're making 170 episodes of TV.
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Feb 7, 2023 18:06
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Prurient Squid posted:The customer demand for action Picard is my demand that I'm making now for roided up torqued picard who crushes the heads of his enemies in his hands. 
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Feb 7, 2023 18:30
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Grand Fromage posted:Action Picard in TNG was fine since it was an occasional thing. Gotta mix it up when you're making 170 episodes of TV. Action Picard immediately knocking that Kenny Omega looking terrorist dude off his feet with a right hook when he portaled onto the bridge in High Ground was pretty great
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Feb 7, 2023 18:43
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Chefs kiss.
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Feb 7, 2023 19:10
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Delsaber posted:Action Picard immediately knocking that Kenny Omega looking terrorist dude off his feet with a right hook when he portaled onto the bridge in High Ground was pretty great And Starship Mine rules. Seeing laced up diplomat occasionally whoop some rear end was a lot of fun. Emphasis on occasionally.
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Feb 7, 2023 19:14
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https://twitter.com/swear_trek/status/1623016840942260239?s=46&t=HQWhCPlvgKz5bVNuZ4sMkQ
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Feb 7, 2023 19:59
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Grand Fromage posted:And Starship Mine rules. Seeing laced up diplomat occasionally whoop some rear end was a lot of fun. Emphasis on occasionally. Picard also pulling the proverbial pin on the hijackers’ trilithium grenade and then watching their ship go kablooey was deluxe King poo poo Picard.
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Feb 7, 2023 20:01
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I don't know if I mentioned it but it was a good time seeing Garak return on "Cardassians". Garak brings out the best in Bashir and I'm not sure what his backstory is yet. He's clearly an outsider but he'd have to be part of the Cardassian empire at one point, I think.
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Feb 7, 2023 20:29
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Taking the wormhole to the mirror universe where they made Garak instead of Picard
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Feb 7, 2023 20:35
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DoubleCakes posted:I don't know if I mentioned it but it was a good time seeing Garak return on "Cardassians". Garak brings out the best in Bashir and I'm not sure what his backstory is yet. He's clearly an outsider but he'd have to be part of the Cardassian empire at one point, I think. I just watched that one the other day and yeah, Garak and Bashir are fun together. Bashir is kind of annoying the rest of the time imo.
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Feb 7, 2023 20:58
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Mooseontheloose posted:I think Action Picard works in small doses too because it reminds the auidence that startfleet is still kinda badass underneath the high mindedness. Literally the next episode after Starship Mine is Picard giving an order for his star scientist girlfriend to hold the line at the cost of her own life to evacuate civilians, and she and her team do it without qualm.
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Feb 7, 2023 21:16
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Stewart should have had someone just write him a generic action vehicle in the 90s (insert First Contact joke here) just to get that poo poo out of his system. He probably would’ve been good at it, or at least better than someone like Seagal. Hell, Lance Henriksen made a whole career out of playing scummy action movie heroes and villains (check out Stone Cold, it’s fantastic) after Aliens and he and Stewart aren’t that dissimilar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cegk6G94FC8
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Feb 8, 2023 03:56
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Knormal posted:The first post-TNG thing I saw Patrick Stewart in was this otherwise-forgettable cheap action movie where he plays a terrorist who takes over a prep school to ransom the kids, but then one kid does a Die Hard. He completely chews the scenery and seems to be having the time of his life. That movie is loving awesome What the hell, the genius hacker kid who Die Hards is Pete Campbell Sash! fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Feb 8, 2023 |
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Feb 8, 2023 03:57
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Knormal posted:The first post-TNG thing I saw Patrick Stewart in was this otherwise-forgettable cheap action movie where he plays a terrorist who takes over a prep school to ransom the kids, but then one kid does a Die Hard. He completely chews the scenery and seems to be having the time of his life. But then not long after that he got cast in X-Men and got firmly typecast as the wise old sci-fi grandpa across multiple franchises, so I'd imagine the low-budget action offers dried up, and no one's going to make a big-budget action movie with an older bald British man. It's a shame, because it is fun to see him in these roles, but I think a lot of that comes from the contrast of seeing him do more serious (well, "serious") work. He tried like mad to get a Transmetropolitan movie or TV series made between the late 90s and late 00s because he wanted to play Spider Jerusalem more than anything else in his life and he couldn't seal the deal.
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Feb 8, 2023 04:03
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Well I'm almost done with my Voyager rewatch and have to decide on whether to actually watch Enterprise or TOS since I don't really watch them that often. I'll probably end up watching TNG but I always consider going back and watching one of those series and end up not doing that.
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Feb 8, 2023 04:22
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I sort of knew that Stewart demanded to be the action hero in the movies, but I hadn't really connected that to him being an executive producer on Picard and driving that. Which is so weird to me because he was a Shakespearean actor and so I just assumed that he was happy with and understood the stodgy intellectual role of Picard.
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Feb 8, 2023 04:35
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Sash! posted:That movie is loving awesome Stewart was also really good in Safe House
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Feb 8, 2023 05:08
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FISHMANPET posted:Which is so weird to me because he was a Shakespearean actor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNcN5f3vwro
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Feb 8, 2023 05:21
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Knormal posted:The first post-TNG thing I saw Patrick Stewart in was this otherwise-forgettable cheap action movie where he plays a terrorist who takes over a prep school to ransom the kids, but then one kid does a Die Hard. He completely chews the scenery and seems to be having the time of his life. He was also in Conspiracy Theory that year with Gibson and Roberts, which I liked at the time. Not a bad year for ol' PStew.
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Feb 8, 2023 05:22
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