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Over 5k confirmed dead. 5,775 buildings confirmed collapsed. These were mostly apartment buildings right, not houses? I think an average of 10 people per building is pretty conservative... https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...f08ba2ef0b72964 Charlz Guybon fucked around with this message at 10:09 on Feb 7, 2023 |
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Feb 7, 2023 09:49
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Single family units are rare, even among the middle and upper classes. Everything’s an apartment complex in Turkey.
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Feb 7, 2023 10:35
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Just absolutely terrible poo poo. Hopefully everyone was already outside by daytime but it's terrifying https://i.imgur.com/jma270m.mp4 https://i.imgur.com/uUUDVjt.mp4 https://i.imgur.com/ICwwKaX.mp4
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Feb 7, 2023 11:15
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drat, I really hope that other countries sends a huge amount of tents and mobile sanitation infrastructure to Turkey too, because whole towns will need to sleep outside of buildings in fear of aftershocks razing the still standing but structurally compromised buildings. 
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Feb 7, 2023 11:52
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All these buildings that collapsed look very similar to the surrounding buildings that are standing still. I don't see how the other buildings are still livable.
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Feb 7, 2023 12:34
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Zudgemud posted:drat, I really hope that other countries sends a huge amount of tents and mobile sanitation infrastructure to Turkey too, because whole towns will need to sleep outside of buildings in fear of aftershocks razing the still standing but structurally compromised buildings. Silver lining is that there is apparently room in the refugee camps that Turkey has built before, including container barracks. I think the Burj al Babas might also be empty...
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Feb 7, 2023 12:39
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stephenthinkpad posted:All these buildings that collapsed look very similar to the surrounding buildings that are standing still. I don't see how the other buildings are still livable. After two major earthquakes and God knows how many aftershocks, you have to assume they're not until proven otherwise.
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Feb 7, 2023 12:50
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mobby_6kl posted:Just absolutely terrible poo poo. Hopefully everyone was already outside by daytime but it's terrifying That one looks derelict so I imagine it was empty. But yeah the other two, I imagine people stay in their apartments when it’s cold unless there’s obvious immediate danger. And even then. If you (generically to the thread, I imagine you Mobby know this one already) want to be topically depressed watch Durak / The Fool, which is about a structural engineer trying to convince people, both high and low, to leave a collapsing social housing unit in the middle of winter. Spoiler alert: it is a Russian film so you already know how 90% of the plot will go. I guess a lot of able bodied people would be out helping but I imagine a lot of parents and old people would have remained inside, minus obvious structural damage - which is usually not very obvious to someone who isn’t an engineer and who hasn’t gone down to look at the foundations. We saw how people reacted to the risk of COVID so I imagine it’s roughly similar for people worrying about their housing unit suddenly collapsing. Which is to say, a lot of people will think "low probability, won’t happen to me." ,If I lived in a new building in Turkey without obvious structural damage I would have slept inside last night too rather than freezing in my car.
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Feb 7, 2023 14:02
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Jesus https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...f08ba2ef0b72964 quote:The BBC’s Turkish language service is carrying some quotes from the Hatay metropolitan municipality mayor, Lütfü Savaş, who says search and rescue operations have begun in the region after a delay. He is quoted as saying: 
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Feb 7, 2023 14:10
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Supposedly aid is being dispersed based on political loyalty, and a lot of those cities are anti akp. I only have hearsay on this so take it for what it’s worth.
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Feb 7, 2023 14:13
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jesus loving christ erdogan
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Feb 7, 2023 14:48
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Zedhe Khoja posted:Supposedly aid is being dispersed based on political loyalty, and a lot of those cities are anti akp. I only have hearsay on this so take it for what it’s worth. I'm going to need a source for that. We're only what, 24 hours into this thing? How would you even know if the aid was political at this point?
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Feb 7, 2023 15:01
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Who knows, just Turks saying it. Dedikodu sedece, yoldaş. But it tracks with the way the entire Turkish political patronage system works. And a lot of people are saying it. Not just my more hysterical friends. If it’s true it’s unlikely to be formally known for a very long time. It’s the kind of thing that’d be quasi illegal to print. We’ll see how reconstruction and aid moves along in Çukurova compared to the eastern region.
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Feb 7, 2023 15:29
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Gaziantep has an AKP mayor.
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Feb 7, 2023 15:47
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Zedhe Khoja posted:Who knows, just Turks saying it. Dedikodu sedece, yoldaş. But it tracks with the way the entire Turkish political patronage system works. And a lot of people are saying it. Not just my more hysterical friends. If it’s true it’s unlikely to be formally known for a very long time. It’s the kind of thing that’d be quasi illegal to print. We’ll see how reconstruction and aid moves along in Çukurova compared to the eastern region. I don't think it's beyond Erdogan or his party to do this. I'm just wondering how anyone could even know this to be the case. Cities are destroyed, power is out, emergency services stretched way, way beyond their limits. People are digging through rubble by hand to find loved ones. And, what, you look down the street and see lots of rescue people there and think ah! Bunch of AKP voters there! I doubt many people have any real idea of what is going on there, including officials and party members. Unless some mayor is straight up saying gently caress that HDP neighborhood or something it just seems like rumours running rampant in a confusing situation
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Feb 7, 2023 16:36
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Anyone have good info on those big cracked dams on the Euphrates? Losing the Ataturk dam would be devastating for that whole region.
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Feb 7, 2023 16:56
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From what I understand, Edrogan is really, really not popular right now. He's such a scummy bastard that I certainly wouldn't put it past him, but honestly at the moment there's probably a lot of people just looking for someone to blame.
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Feb 7, 2023 17:08
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Zedhe Khoja posted:Supposedly aid is being dispersed based on political loyalty, and a lot of those cities are anti akp. I only have hearsay on this so take it for what it’s worth. Count Roland posted:I'm going to need a source for that. The initial tweets from the government indicate the big guy didn't call opposition mayors with offers of support https://boldmedya.com/2023/02/06/erdogan-deprem-sonrasi-chpli-belediye-baskanlarini-aramadi/ There are other posts claiming no support has arrived but not any I can instantly refer a news story or "primary source tweet" on  Anyway, it should be completely unsurprising to people familiar with the area. krdş türkiye bura ne beklion
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Feb 7, 2023 17:16
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The government is very responsive in many ways though. They developed an app real quick to report disinfo  https://twitter.com/fahrettinaltun/status/1622777204852592640
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Feb 7, 2023 17:24
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MechanicalTomPetty posted:From what I understand, Edrogan is really, really not popular right now. He's such a scummy bastard that I certainly wouldn't put it past him, but honestly at the moment there's probably a lot of people just looking for someone to blame. He's also politically savvy and while he has all sorts of problems, the earthquake did not hit majority Kurdish areas.  Plus even if it were centered on majority Kurdish regions, I imagine "intentionally withholding earthquake aid" would be quite a scandal, and hard to cover up. In some hypothetical where the earthquake hit right on the divide between Turkish and Kurdish regions, and aid was prioritized to Turkish regions, maybe yeah. But that's not this earthquake. And here by ethnic group rather than voting bloc:  Or maybe this one is even better since it gives percentages instead of black/white so you can see even Malatya is not exactly a HDP stronghold. 
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Feb 7, 2023 17:24
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Saladman posted:He's also politically savvy and while he has all sorts of problems, the earthquake did not hit majority Kurdish areas. You should look up who lives in Diyarbakır (Amed) https://twitter.com/dryukselmis/status/1622663941007581187
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Feb 7, 2023 17:27
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mawarannahr posted:You should look up who lives in Diyarbakır (Amed) Sure, buildings collapsed far away, but Diyarbakir is almost 350 km from the epicenter of the second quake, and even further from the first one. I'd expect them to get less aid even in a fair world, as I imagine they also have a lot less damage. That's also an unusual collapse in that "only" the first four floors were destroyed... and it also looks like brand new construction. I haven't seen any aerial photos of Diyarbakir but that's the closest large Kurdish-majority city to the earthquakes.
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Feb 7, 2023 17:33
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Saladman posted:Sure, buildings collapsed far away, but Diyarbakir is almost 350 km from the epicenter of the second quake, and even further from the first one. I'd expect them to get less aid even in a fair world, as I imagine they also have a lot less damage.  https://twitter.com/emniyetgm/status/1622943238737825793?s=46&t=l https://twitter.com/jandarma/status/1622645718262349846?s=46&t=uoPmt4S_ https://twitter.com/dailysabah/status/1622511339678597122?s=46&t=uoPmt4S_
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Feb 7, 2023 17:36
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drat some of these buildings I count have 12-13 floors. They are pretty drat new compared to 5-7 floor buildings probably from the 70s.
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Feb 7, 2023 17:42
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BTW, even in cities that aren't majority-Kurdish there tend to be districts or neighborhoods that are, like Islahiye in Antep. The provinces aren't neatly segregating ethnic groups or anything.
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Feb 7, 2023 18:00
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If anyone at this point needs proof that this was a massive geological event, well... Swedish and Italian geologists estimate that Turkey shifted by 3-5 metres. Normally the movements of the Anatolian plate are measured in millimetres per year.
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Feb 7, 2023 18:11
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mawarannahr posted:There's a lot more information out there if only you look a little bit before posting Yes, there's damage there, I didn't say there wasn't?? Lots of towns in Hatay also looks like Mariupol, just look at any of the drone photos from places closer to the epicenter, like Antakya. That's really quite a take that Erdogan is micromanaging even within cities whether Kurdish-majority areas get aid versus AKP supporting neighborhoods, but... alright.
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Feb 7, 2023 19:12
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Saladman posted:Yes, there's damage there, I didn't say there wasn't?? Lots of towns in Hatay also looks like Mariupol, just look at any of the drone photos from places closer to the epicenter, like Antakya. Vali means governor and Belediye Başkanı is mayor. The mayors of cities that are held by the opposition were not contacted - note Antep appearing twice and Diyarbakır once. I brought up the Kurdish-majority districts in cities like Antep to point out Kurdish populations are widely dispersed in the region. I haven't seen any indication yet of uneven assistance in those areas -- that is not my "take," to be clear.
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Feb 7, 2023 19:27
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the rumor is Cukarova and Hatay are the regions getting the shaft not the more eastern cities anyway. Adana and Antakya specifically seem to have been pretty public about feeling neglected by the national government during this. Whatever the reality is, the people there seem to think it's true.
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Feb 7, 2023 20:04
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Anyone got links to reputable relief orgs? Preferably ones that do not have a reputation for spending 90% on overhead
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Feb 7, 2023 20:14
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HolHorsejob posted:Anyone got links to reputable relief orgs? Preferably ones that do not have a reputation for spending 90% on overhead I'm trusting the German THW, it has already sent personnel to help. Also, the page above has links to other orgs, like e.g. Unicef, if you want to give them money instead.
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Feb 7, 2023 20:49
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HolHorsejob posted:Anyone got links to reputable relief orgs? Preferably ones that do not have a reputation for spending 90% on overhead https://ahbap.org News in English about Ahbap: https://markets.businessinsider.com...onse-1032074861 In Turkish: https://t24.com.tr/amp/haber/haluk-levent-deprem-icin-bagis-yapan-isimleri-paylasarak-tesekkur-etti,1090251 https://twitter.com/ahbap/status/1622665789517045773 https://twitter.com/haluklevent/status/1623055620902653953 I believe he is legit as do many donors including pro-opposition celebrities, and TikTok's Turkish bureau ($100,000!) He's been arrested many times for his support of Kurdish people. The Diyarbakır Bar Association is accepting donations but I might wait to see this in their official website instead of their legacy-verified account https://twitter.com/diyarbakirbaro/status/1623035589397254154 mawarannahr fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Feb 7, 2023 |
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Feb 7, 2023 21:54
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On the subject of politically motivated aid shenanigans and doubting the gov would do such things... https://greekcitytimes.com/2023/02/08/earthquake-disaster-turkey-cyprus/
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Feb 8, 2023 05:21
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Grape posted:On the subject of politically motivated aid shenanigans and doubting the gov would do such things... The US and Iran always offer each other aid after natural disasters and it is always declined as well. https://reliefweb.int/report/iran-islamic-republic/us-offers-iran-earthquake-aid-rebuffed https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2005/9/4/friends-and-foes-offer-us-katrina-help Is it lovely, or are they rejecting political grandstanding? Probably both. But in any case, very typical internationally.
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Feb 8, 2023 08:40
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Awful https://twitter.com/BBCWorld/status/1623241569041014784 quote:Death toll keeps rising - it's now above 9,000
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Feb 8, 2023 09:47
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quote:Turkey shells Syria’s north despite devastating earthquake Nature is healing etc etc. mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Feb 8, 2023 |
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Feb 8, 2023 10:11
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Nothing stops Turkey’s lust for Kurd death
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Feb 8, 2023 13:12
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i say swears online posted:could you expand on this please? what was codified and what was not? a pipe smoking dog posted:Wow seriously? One of my main memories being a kid in Riyadh is seeing the mutaween beat up a woman in a full abaya which I guess they decided was too form fitting or something. Sorry for the late reply as I don't keep up with this thread, but the codifications are here: https://www.visitsaudi.com/content/dam/saudi-tourism/documents/VIOLATIONSTOPUBLICDECENCYANDPENALTIES_EN.pdf Essentially to replace the religious police with the norms being explicit with penalties, as part of opening up to tourism as part of their modernization program.
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Feb 8, 2023 18:20
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looks like arson is an easy $30 fine. also pretty kinky since underwear is illegal
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Feb 8, 2023 18:43
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The Economist has a very long magazine article on the quake from an on the ground reporter in Antakya, https://www.economist.com/1843/2023/02/08/survivors-of-the-earthquakes-in-turkey-are-forced-to-dig-for-relatives-with-bare-hands (can stop page as it loads to bypass paywall, or many other tricks). A friend of mine is from Gaziantep, although her immediate family all now lives in Istanbul. She replied just now that all her extended family is safe but that they are unable to get out of the city and get to Istanbul, and that everyone is trying to leave and there's no reliable transportation out. I guess the roads must be pretty badly damaged, especially through the mountains where the quake was and that connects Gaziantep to central and southern Turkey. On that note I'm surprised that Google doesn't have good real-time data for the roads there being out of service / badly blocked, since they do support traffic data in Turkey. I guess you'd have to use local radio stations to figure out which, if any, roads were open.
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Feb 8, 2023 21:48
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