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exquisite tea posted:nobody is particularly going to care if some intern turns up a damage number by 8,000% every few months or so. Even if all they do is cycle between the 6 most popular seasons from now on, that's still a ton of replayable content. And I think new stuff will continue to be added into the game as well. I think the sentiment is more that they'll stop not because that one intern is expensive, but because D4 sucks like vanilla D3 and they're willing to cannibalize the previous game to push the new one. Not a great decision, and not one I think they'd make, but that seems to be the general internet vibe going around. Personally I'd want to keep people in the D3 ecosystem as long as possible so that when I finally found a lead who didn't have his head up his rear end people would be able to transition to D4 2.0: We Fixed It, including introducing tie-in items for current D3 owners... but I'm not the savvy dev that xXx_D3SUXX_xXx from the gamefaqs forums is.
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Feb 8, 2023 13:43
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It would certainly help if there was, IDK, a single original idea or reason to play D4 over its predecessors. What exactly is supposed to excite people about this game? I'm honestly at a loss.
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Feb 8, 2023 13:47
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exquisite tea posted:It would certainly help if there was, IDK, a single original idea or reason to play D4 over its predecessors. What exactly is supposed to excite people about this game? I'm honestly at a loss. yeah that's where I'm at. llama did a pretty good 'things i hate about d4' and 'things I love about d4' pair of videos that I think sum up the state of what is known about it pretty well. The one surprising thing in there is his statement that the combat actually feels good, which has utterly not come through from the b-roll that they keep releasing of people running around getting shot up by skeleton archers. Otherwise, yeah idk in what way they even intend for it to stand out in the genre. I also really hate the idea of a battle pass in my arpg, especially one that's heavily integrated into the game. I didn't realize how much I disliked this and how disruptive it is until I tried out torchlight infinite and having to click 20 different 'claim rewards' buttons every 20 minutes of gameplay is the exact opposite of what I want, even if that stuff technically is engagement crack or w/e
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Feb 8, 2023 14:07
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exquisite tea posted:It would certainly help if there was, IDK, a single original idea or reason to play D4 over its predecessors. What exactly is supposed to excite people about this game? I'm honestly at a loss.  here too. I haven't watched much footage but the idea of Lost Ark (MMO) crossed with D3 doesn't have me excited.
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Feb 8, 2023 14:30
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Dysgenesis posted:I didn't know Chris Metzen posted in this thread. So like Jim Cameron's pitch for a sequel to Alien was to write ALIEN$ on a whiteboard at his pitch meeting, Metzen's pitch was: DIABL(.)(.)
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Feb 8, 2023 14:30
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I can see D4 being pitched as the same kind of model as Halo Infinite - here's our platform for the future, let's build stuff on it. Obviously that went extremely well for 343 
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Feb 8, 2023 14:38
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exquisite tea posted:It would certainly help if there was, IDK, a single original idea or reason to play D4 over its predecessors. What exactly is supposed to excite people about this game? I'm honestly at a loss. yeah, like for d3, there was an actual reason. D2 was 12 years ago and games have gotten a lot more player friendly. It was interesting to see that having your skill points not locked in anymore, or not dropping your gear on death didn't break the game. Turns out there was no reason for those mechanics after all. but in the almost 12 years between d3 and d4, the only thing that blizzard seems to have learned is that the real money auction house is bad, people responded REALLY negatively to Immortal, and yet, d4 is going to have microtransactions. Microtransactions are basically the only innovation in over a decade and they're kind of played out already. Nobody really likes them. Hopefully, they'll be met with lots of uproar and get patched out, but then what?
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Feb 8, 2023 15:14
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Yeah, people responded so negatively to the microtransactions that Immortal is pulling them something like a million dollars a day. Surely this will teach them their lesson.
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Feb 8, 2023 15:29
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Last week Wowhead posted a... well, they called it an "updated game overview with info from the December press preview build". Whatever. At the very end they've got a couple little notes: Runes, runewords, and set items will not be in D4 at launch because, y'know, they want to take the time to do them right. And I'm just sitting over here screaming internally.
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Feb 8, 2023 16:01
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People say microtransactions are the Devil™ but also people can't stop shoveling money into it so games will keep doing them until they legally are not allowed to.
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Feb 8, 2023 16:10
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Russad posted:Yeah, people responded so negatively to the microtransactions that Immortal is pulling them something like a million dollars a day. Surely this will teach them their lesson. It's only like 500k a day now! It's actually kind of interesting seeing how quickly that revenue dropped. It's still a good chunk of money but it's less than half of what it was from the first month.
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Feb 8, 2023 16:13
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It's almost like their gameplay loop was designed to prey upon the same thing that makes people pull slot machines all day.
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Feb 8, 2023 16:17
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bio347 posted:Last week Wowhead posted a... well, they called it an "updated game overview with info from the December press preview build". Whatever. The runewords I get, there's a ton of balancing issues there. The no set items worries me though. And haven't they said specifically that transactions were going to be for cosmetic stuff only? Or did that get "reworked"?
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Feb 8, 2023 16:20
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Field Mousepad posted:And haven't they said specifically that transactions were going to be for cosmetic stuff only? Or did that get "reworked"? They continue to say that it is cosmetic stuff only
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Feb 8, 2023 16:27
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AlbertFlasher posted:They continue to say that it is cosmetic stuff only They said similar things about immortal but worded in a way that made them technically true but slimy nonetheless.
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Feb 8, 2023 16:33
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yeah microtransactions make millions because a tiny minority of people with either too much money or crippling mental illness or both are spending all the money. I'm fine with crypto bros losing any money they accidentally made or kids of saudi oil billionaires buying cosmetics so I can have a cheaper game, but not if they're also encouraging gambling addicts to spend all their rent and food money on it. Or warping small children's brains. also, you can't really vote against microtransactions by not buying them, because companies can't see sales that aren't made. you're just an untapped market to them. They'll plan to get you too by this time next year or a team is getting laid off.
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Feb 8, 2023 16:34
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It's like all the preorder bullshit, the "deluxe edition" bullshit, the cosmetic DLC that really should be free, or costs $15 when it's 2% more content for a $60 game, etc. At first you say "It doesn't matter because I won't buy the badly priced stuff", and their response to that is to make the base product a worse value to pressure you into buying bad value extra content. It has to be cut off entirely, not just "opting out" of the "bad part". I don't think it could be any more transparent that D4 is a half-baked cash grab that will be a disaster at launch, with plans to add more halfassed content to try to rehabilitate the game's image and lure in more buyers (or lure back whales, since there will coincidentally just happen to be even cooler and more expensive cosmetics released with every gameplay patch).
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Feb 8, 2023 16:49
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bio347 posted:Last week Wowhead posted a... well, they called it an "updated game overview with info from the December press preview build". Whatever. Too bad, the weird trigger on various circumstances runes seemed like one of the more interesting things they were bringing to the game in terms of customizing your build. Poe sort of stole it for their potion trigger crafts.
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Feb 8, 2023 16:51
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RodShaft posted:They said similar things about immortal but worded in a way that made them technically true but slimy nonetheless. I don't remember that at all and can't find anything with my Google skills. Can you post a link?
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Feb 8, 2023 17:04
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marshalljim posted:I don't remember that at all and can't find anything with my Google skills. Can you post a link? https://twitter.com/Zizaran/status/1533134376015364099?s=20
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Feb 8, 2023 17:07
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Yikes, that's pretty bad, alright.
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Feb 8, 2023 17:26
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marshalljim posted:I don't remember that at all and can't find anything with my Google skills. Can you post a link? They said you couldn't buy powerful equipment, then made your biggest gear progression in the form of gems you slot into equipment. And you can buy those! The immortal thread at launch was truly something to see. The most broken mobile gamers insisting they were not owned.
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Feb 8, 2023 17:31
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Yeah that was such a shady rear end bait and switch. I don't expect much from blizzard but drat that was bad.
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Feb 8, 2023 17:46
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Field Mousepad posted:Yeah that was such a shady rear end bait and switch. I don't expect much from blizzard but drat that was bad. It was bad for mobile games even. The gambling aspect of mobile games are toxic as gently caress to begin with.
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Feb 8, 2023 17:52
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I expect that at some point there was a strategy meeting high up in Blizzard where they deliberately targeted making Immortal particularly obnoxious so that when D4 comes out and is only 10% as bad, people will make excuses for them.
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Feb 8, 2023 18:03
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Put your money where your mouth is, gamers.
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Feb 8, 2023 19:04
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I will say in the beta there was just a cosmetic shop, nothing in there related to progression so take that with a grain of salt
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Feb 8, 2023 19:10
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Sgt. Cosgrove posted:I will say in the beta there was just a cosmetic shop, nothing in there related to progression so take that with a grain of salt What's your point? They implied no paytowin and launched with paytowin, what does the beta having only cosmetics matter?
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Feb 8, 2023 19:18
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bio347 posted:Last week Wowhead posted a... well, they called it an "updated game overview with info from the December press preview build". Whatever. Well in D3 sets are required for builds and non set LoD builds while sometimes better are so impossible to get to without effort vs D2 where all but like one set are useless and thus built around unique. It's likely they're trying to find a medium and entirely failing.
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Feb 8, 2023 19:24
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Lid posted:Well in D3 sets are required for builds and non set LoD builds while sometimes better are so impossible to get to without effort vs D2 where all but like one set are useless and thus built around unique. It's likely they're trying to find a medium and entirely failing. Runes are probably just as important as uniques in d2 so your point about their failure is even more valid
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Feb 8, 2023 19:27
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It's far too late to do anything about the dominance of sets in D3 but I think they served a good purpose in the lifetime of the game. They give casual players a very clear goal to build toward and remove a lot of the guesswork around what skills are most effective. Feeling totally lost at 70? Well look here, just follow the season journey and your Impale now does a million bazillion damage. EZ. Set bonus stacking does get a little ridiculous sometimes but that's a problem with underwhelming legendaries, not the coolness of the sets themselves. And if you just hate the idea of sets altogether, then many LoD builds have endured to this day, each with their own little quirks and gearing priorities. The overall effect is that there are a lot more viable S and A-tier builds in the game than D2 ever had, from a greater variety of classes. The balance is actually in a good spot right now, even if I do think WDs and Crusaders have been a bit overlooked in the most recent patch.
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Feb 8, 2023 19:46
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Lid posted:Well in D3 sets are required for builds and non set LoD builds while sometimes better are so impossible to get to without effort vs D2 where all but like one set are useless and thus built around unique. It's likely they're trying to find a medium and entirely failing. It was very, very obvious through their quarterly updates that they were struggling hard with items and redesigned the system wholesale at least a couple of times, but man. It's just so disappointing.
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Feb 8, 2023 19:48
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What I've never understood about that logic is that D2 is absolutely just as beholden to de facto, "you would be an idiot not to wear this" BiS gear, it just comes in the form of runewords and an extremely limited set of uniques. Like double SoJs and Enigma not might have green text but they're still mandatory for like 85% of all endgame builds, meanwhile because of LoD and a better spread of legendary effects all around D3 actually does have a lot of gearing variety where you only junk about 98% of what you find rather than 99.1%. That may sound glib but I do think it's a notable improvement.
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Feb 9, 2023 08:56
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exquisite tea posted:It's far too late to do anything about the dominance of sets in D3 but I think they served a good purpose in the lifetime of the game. They give casual players a very clear goal to build toward and remove a lot of the guesswork around what skills are most effective. Feeling totally lost at 70? Well look here, just follow the season journey and your Impale now does a million bazillion damage. EZ. Set bonus stacking does get a little ridiculous sometimes but that's a problem with underwhelming legendaries, not the coolness of the sets themselves. And if you just hate the idea of sets altogether, then many LoD builds have endured to this day, each with their own little quirks and gearing priorities. The overall effect is that there are a lot more viable S and A-tier builds in the game than D2 ever had, from a greater variety of classes. The balance is actually in a good spot right now, even if I do think WDs and Crusaders have been a bit overlooked in the most recent patch. I tend to agree with this. In the realm of "design a game that you can learn without needing to dip into an external wiki to get good at", Diablo 3 has its bright spots: the normal difficulty is so easy that you can muddle through it even if you don't pay that much attention or take advantage of the little tricks you can do to maximize your leveling speed and once you get to level 70, just pursuing the seasonal quests will teach you what you need to know about the game's basic endgame loop while I can't comment on how "intuitive" it is to figure out the Rift -> Keystone -> Greater Rift -> Upgrade Legendary Gems paradigm for someone who had to learn it with no prior experience, having one of the early gems be the Legacy of Nightmares is a great leg-up because it can catapult you to Torment 6-ish even if you don't pursue the seasonal quests to get a free set right out of the bat and once you have enough of the gameplay loop down that you can pursue a set, then you know what you have to do: run Rifts to rack up blood shards, then use blood shards until get the pieces you need once you have a set completed, the set's description makes it a no-brainer to figure out what you should be attacking with sure, there's going to be room for "optimizing" your stats, and finding out non-obvious interactions between certain specific items, but you don't HAVE to do those unless you're really chasing for it, at which point, I think a player ducking out and browsing maxroll.gg is understandable if they want the best-of-the-best knowledge
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Feb 9, 2023 12:03
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My only gripe is that there is no point grinding past GR 80-ish. Once the rift boss loot is maxed out and all legendries, there's no difference. If you turned off the GUI and damage numbers, you wouldn't know whether you're playing with a fresh set of gear on 80, or a fully tweaked 200 hours 'sperged build at GR120.
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Feb 9, 2023 12:43
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I agree that past a certain point, Diablo 3 ceases to be about getting phat item drops and just becomes about massing Paragon. I think that's a design mistake. In ARPGs, the loot that falls on the ground should always take priority over filling up an XP bar. There should always be the promise of better drops out there, but the reality of the game is that wearing all augmented primals is a drop in the bucket compared to what the most basic Paragon bots can do in a week of farming. Ideally there would always be a way to further optimize your gear.
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Feb 9, 2023 13:01
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sauer kraut posted:My only gripe is that there is no point grinding past GR 80-ish. Once the rift boss loot is maxed out and all legendries, there's no difference. I mean I'd like to see inifinitely scaling gear because it'd be comedy, but I can understand why it is eventually locked down to just time trials. Paragon sucks but I can't think of a way to replace it that doesn't either result in wasted effort or infinite gear.
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Feb 9, 2023 17:01
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I think the people who need more content in a game like this are extremely limited to broken brained people like us. We should probably just filnd different games, but mental illness.
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Feb 9, 2023 17:19
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Star Man posted:The next logical step is to accept that you've grown out of Diablo
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Feb 9, 2023 17:38
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exquisite tea posted:It would certainly help if there was, IDK, a single original idea or reason to play D4 over its predecessors. What exactly is supposed to excite people about this game? I'm honestly at a loss. Reasons I'm excited to play D4: - I love Diablo, but I cannot imagine doing the same D2 or D3 gameplay loops anymore. I've just put so many hours into those games, and I loved them, but I want something new to play in the Diablo universe. - The combat looks fun to me. - Open world Diablo sounds cool. - I like that you're encouraged to explore the world and complete dungeons to unlock stuff (codex of power, I think?) that helps build up and customize your character. I always love the atmosphere in Diablo games, but there isn't usually a lot of incentive to go to most areas. - The combination of class design, skill trees, paragon board, gear, etc. seems like it will open up a lot of cool character customization options. - I like that they're launching with multiple endgame activities with nightmare dungeons, paragon board, whispers of the dead, and fields of hatred PVP stuff. - I'm a big dumb idiot that things Diablo with live service features sounds like it will continue to feel fresh season-to-season.
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Feb 9, 2023 17:58
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