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dr_rat posted:People always talk about how DS9 was so much darker and serious, but it still always had plenty of humor and light moments for characters to balance that. Like the epsiodes about dealing with War PTSD, or committing ethically horrible things for possibly a greater good, even just hit a lot harder when their between lighter topsides, and you know the shows made us care about the characters. My Annoying Internet Opinion is that DS9 was in fact not grimdark, but instead as close as any 90s-era Trek came to capturing the weird 60s-era lightness of TOS. That show had a ton of episodes (good or bad) that were just outright intended to be comedy and a huge amount of light character moments even in more serious episodes. DS9's characters actually seemed to have lives with leisure time and fun that wasn't some weird attempt at showing the sophistication of everyone in the future. Basically modern Trek could learn a from it about how you do serialized TV with serious plotlines without turning everything into a stupid slog.
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Feb 11, 2023 16:28
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I mostly agree with the set design, but drat it they need to learn what loving carpet is again. I hate my Federation ships with shiny floors. However their uniform design is rear end, they should've just used the Beyond uniforms if they wanted to update the originals. The actors are all amazing, but the writing is just as loving dumb as Discovery's. It's not better, it's just acted by somehow the most charismatic cast I've seen assembled in a while. It has all the foibles, everyone is super casual, no one speaks or acts professionally, they're all trying to be 'cool', and a lot of the plots are really dumb. As well again, it made the Gorn into loving xenomorphs. It shouldn't get a pass for that.
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Feb 11, 2023 16:31
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DS9 was also home to some very 90s Joss Whedon-esque writing, which got more pronounced as it went along. Behr has a similar style, but without the on-set sexual harassment.
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Feb 11, 2023 16:37
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SNW's set design wasn't bad but not my cup of cake, just didn't feel very welcoming. Honestly without carpet, not sure there's any hope for Trek designs to feel warm and inviting.
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Feb 11, 2023 16:39
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at least put down a shitload of rugs, right? imagine trying to live in a place with only hard floors everywhere. pathetic
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Feb 11, 2023 16:40
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Eimi posted:I mostly agree with the set design, but drat it they need to learn what loving carpet is again. I hate my Federation ships with shiny floors. However their uniform design is rear end, they should've just used the Beyond uniforms if they wanted to update the originals. There's a big structural difference tho. If you don't like a plot in SNW its okay because it ends and they move onto a different plot. i think a lot of people who like SNW *aren't* giving it a pass on the Gorn thing, but it doesn't kill the show because it wasn't the Gorn Season or anything.
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Feb 11, 2023 16:40
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HD DAD posted:DS9 was also home to some very 90s Joss Whedon-esque writing, which got more pronounced as it went along. Behr has a similar style, but without the on-set sexual harassment. I do not recognise this description of DS9 at all. It has comedy, sure, but I don't recall the cast ever going in for 'oh you're from The Dominion? What, was The Empire and The Imperium already taken?  ' self-parody bits
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Feb 11, 2023 16:46
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:There's a big structural difference tho. If you don't like a plot in SNW its okay because it ends and they move onto a different plot. This is the other secret of good Star Trek. All of the good shows had duds, but it used to be a single dud didn't knock over the rest of the season too
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Feb 11, 2023 16:47
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Yeah the Gorn are easily the worst part of the show, but as stated, they got like…two episodes of screen time. I also understand the dislike of the casualness of the crew, but I also take that as a believable extension of how Pike runs the Enterprise. He’s the perfect embodiment of Space Dad, and just wants everyone to feel comfortable and accepted while still running an orderly ship. It feels more jarring on Discovery because that was supposed to be Starfleet’s Philadelphia Experiment, and that should have been staffed with the tightest-assed professionals.
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Feb 11, 2023 16:49
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As Mike on RLM puts it, Star Trek is fundamentally a show about a team of competent people working together to address a problem. It can be a fun problem, a moral dilemma, or a deathy crisis, the core premise of the IP is 'good people trying to make the world better'. You can make the setting pretty much anything as long as you stick to that rule.
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Feb 11, 2023 17:07
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The crew of Voyager get home by switching consciousness with alternate reality versions of themselves that never got stranded in the Delta Quadrant.
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Feb 11, 2023 17:11
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Gorn Season Rabbit Season
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Feb 11, 2023 17:48
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Prurient Squid posted:The crew of Voyager get home by switching consciousness with alternate reality versions of themselves that never got stranded in the Delta Quadrant. Worked for Harry Kim!
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Feb 11, 2023 17:56
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:There's a big structural difference tho. If you don't like a plot in SNW its okay because it ends and they move onto a different plot.  Also the characters are a legitimate ensemble that you very quickly get to know and it's fun to watch. SNW is a much better show than DISCO even if the writing has its ups and downs.
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Feb 11, 2023 18:00
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Animal-Mother posted:Rabbit Season Gorn Season!
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Feb 11, 2023 18:14
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HD DAD posted:DS9 was also home to some very 90s Joss Whedon-esque writing Big Mean Jerk posted:SNW and mid-century design are both great
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Feb 11, 2023 21:26
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Eimi posted:However their uniform design is rear end, they should've just used the Beyond uniforms if they wanted to update the originals. I think the SNW uniforms are fine, but they'd be even better if they made the whole collar black instead of just the little triangle in front (which I think is actually undershirt).  I can't help but think that getting rid of the black entirely was an over-correction by the costuming people trying to move away from the WAY-too-much-collar version seen in Disco: 
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Feb 11, 2023 22:25
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Powered Descent posted:I think the SNW uniforms are fine, but they'd be even better if they made the whole collar black instead of just the little triangle in front (which I think is actually undershirt). The TURBO COLLAR is the only thing I don't like about the pre-time jump Discovery uniforms. I liked how they were a futurized version of the Enterprise blue astronaut jumpsuit uniforms, but the asymmetrical jawbone-height collars ruined it. Also god I can't decide if Anson Mount's Pike looks better with the full head of Daddy gray hair, or the salt and pepper dusty brown haired look. They're both so good 
nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Feb 11, 2023 |
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Feb 11, 2023 22:39
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I have started watching TOS, which I have only caught random episodes off as a child on the BBC in the 80s. I think I may have seen like 10 episodes in total. I am 20 minutes into The Cage. It's nothing like any Trek I've ever seen yet so familiar, and it's frankly mesmerizing to watch. It must have been absolutely magical back when it was first broadcast. Other than that, everyone is white and the mysogeny is just nuts.
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Feb 11, 2023 23:26
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Meatgrinder posted:I have started watching TOS, which I have only caught random episodes off as a child on the BBC in the 80s. I think I may have seen like 10 episodes in total. I am 20 minutes into The Cage. It's nothing like any Trek I've ever seen yet so familiar, and it's frankly mesmerizing to watch. It must have been absolutely magical back when it was first broadcast. I felt kinda the same way. It's worth remembering the Cage is like pilot 1 or 2 of 3, as you watch more after that it'll settle down a bit. Still plenty 60s, just not as white.
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Feb 11, 2023 23:52
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Arivia posted:I felt kinda the same way. It's worth remembering the Cage is like pilot 1 or 2 of 3, as you watch more after that it'll settle down a bit. Still plenty 60s, just not as white. There were only two pilots, The Cage and Where No Man Has Gone Before. The latter is what got Star Trek ordered to series.
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Feb 11, 2023 23:56
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It’s funny that DS9 is remembered as grim dark….. If you tally up all of the “comedy” episodes of Star Trek (outside LD), DS9 would have at least half of them. Probably 3/4.
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Feb 12, 2023 00:50
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Mike the TV posted:It’s funny that DS9 is remembered as grim dark….. I think this is largely because, even if it was in the background, a near-galaxy-spanning war was happening for the final two seasons, and had been simmering for the two seasons prior to that.
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Feb 12, 2023 01:02
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I’m about a season and a half into DS9 and it’s def darker than TOS or TNG. Several episodes deal with the Space Holocaust.
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Feb 12, 2023 01:05
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DS9 especially doesn't hold up as 'grimdark' when you compare it to BSG or modern series like Picard. It was the darkest Trek of its time, but that's not the same thing as doom and gloom.
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Feb 12, 2023 01:05
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Pick the top 10 funniest Trek episodes. Half will be DS9. A few from TNG, then maybe a few of the rest.
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Feb 12, 2023 01:17
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Mike the TV posted:Pick the top 10 funniest Trek episodes. Half will be DS9. A few from TNG, then maybe a few of the rest. That's incredibly untrue considering Voyager has Bride of Chaotica!, Tinker Tenor Doctor Spy, Message in a Bottle, Lifeline, and Live Fast and Prosper.
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Feb 12, 2023 01:26
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Mike the TV posted:Pick the top 10 funniest Trek episodes. Half will be DS9. A few from TNG, then maybe a few of the rest. - The Trouble with Tribbles - A Piece of the Action - I, Mudd - Spock Amok - Trials and Tribble-ations - Take Me Out to the Holosuite - Bride of Chaotica! - Tinker, Tenor, Doctor, Spy - The Magnificent Ferengi - Deja Q
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Feb 12, 2023 01:29
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Timby posted:There were only two pilots, The Cage and Where No Man Has Gone Before. The latter is what got Star Trek ordered to series. And Lucille Ball helped finance the second pilot.
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Feb 12, 2023 01:32
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We don't thank that wonderful woman enough for all the things she did for us.
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Feb 12, 2023 01:38
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Feb 12, 2023 01:50
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Timby posted:I think this is largely because, even if it was in the background, a near-galaxy-spanning war was happening for the final two seasons, and had been simmering for the two seasons prior to that. Yeah, but that dark tone was only present in specific episodes, which isn't really any different from any other Star Trek series. Voyager's whole premise is arguably super dark and includes ongoing plotlines involving diseased, organ-snatching horror aliens and species that hunt sentient life.
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Feb 12, 2023 02:06
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Paradoxish posted:Yeah, but that dark tone was only present in specific episodes, which isn't really any different from any other Star Trek series. Voyager's whole premise is arguably super dark and includes ongoing plotlines involving diseased, organ-snatching horror aliens and species that hunt sentient life. I don't disagree, I was just saying that's the reason DS9 has the reputation for being "dark." Edit: It also has a main cast member getting Hadoukened as the linchpin of its sixth season finale.
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Feb 12, 2023 02:10
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Mike the TV posted:Pick the top 10 funniest Trek episodes. Half will be DS9. A few from TNG, then maybe a few of the rest. Spock's Brain. Plato's Stepchildren, arguably, for 
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Feb 12, 2023 02:14
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Timby posted:- The Trouble with Tribbles List doesn’t include In The Cards. Shameful list.
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Feb 12, 2023 02:47
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So I finished watching the episode of Picard where Riker makes a pizza, and it's a good episode. Probably not a coincidence it's got minimum of swash buckling and is all about the relationship between characters. I also really liked the part where Picard has an anxiety attack from being on the borg cube and his past trauma relating to that, but then they have the romulans just murder all the ex-borgs and that seems like a real waste My opinion of the new characters remains really low as well, like I'm constantly bored with with the crew and the romulan siblings. Even when they chew the scenery they do it in the most boring way possible. The one glimmer of interesting interaction was space legolas and Hugh interacting, but of course that came to a dead end 
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Feb 12, 2023 03:04
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McCloud posted:So I finished watching the episode of Picard where Riker makes a pizza, and it's a good episode. That's the one highlight I mentioned. Prepare for a treasure trove of bullshit.
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Feb 12, 2023 03:14
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McCloud posted:So I finished watching the episode of Picard where Riker makes a pizza, and it's a good episode. Probably not a coincidence it's got minimum of swash buckling and is all about the relationship between characters. I also really liked the part where Picard has an anxiety attack from being on the borg cube and his past trauma relating to that, but then they have the romulans just murder all the ex-borgs and that seems like a real waste I really liked that bit too. Then I remember that they asked Frakes if he wanted to be on the show while he was directing the third episode. Every scene with Riker and Troi is a scene that could have advanced an existing plotline, so there's your reason why a bunch of stuff seems missing or things get dropped. PerniciousKnid posted:And Lucille Ball helped finance the second pilot. The show was shot on Desilu's soundstage. Lucille Ball was key to putting the show on the air. 
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Feb 12, 2023 03:14
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Timby posted:I don't disagree, I was just saying that's the reason DS9 has the reputation for being "dark." DS9 isn't dark in the grimdark sense, it just isn't utopian in the way TNG was, that's the whole premise. It's only dark in a relative sense.
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Feb 12, 2023 03:22
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PerniciousKnid posted:DS9 isn't dark in the grimdark sense, it just isn't utopian in the way TNG was, that's the whole premise. It's only dark in a relative sense. Again, I'm saying why it has the reputation, not that it was actually grimdark. Jesus, people.
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Feb 12, 2023 03:23
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