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IcePhoenix posted:I think the dungeons are supposed to be the end game Is it going to be a map system like path of exile? cause I can get down with that as long as it's more accessible and casual.
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Feb 11, 2023 19:51
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I said come in! posted:Is it going to be a map system like path of exile? cause I can get down with that as long as it's more accessible and casual. I don't know how poe works but iirc you find nightmare sigils or something while doing stuff and you use those to add modifiers to "nightmare dungeons" e: found their blog https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/diablo4/23827587/developer-update-closed-end-game-beta-draws-near quote:Nightmare Dungeons
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Feb 11, 2023 19:54
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The closest thing to rifts are the hell invasion gimmick that they borrowed from D2:R. Faster paced with higher density, and reward shards to gamble with. You gain shards to unlock chests, but you have to play them during the event, or they disappear. You lose some on death if I recall. I actually really enjoyed it, but it don't think they unlock until the last world tier. Which felt really dumb, since the density in the open world was pretty sparse.
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Feb 11, 2023 19:55
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IcePhoenix posted:I don't know how poe works but iirc you find nightmare sigils or something while doing stuff and you use those to add modifiers to "nightmare dungeons" That is pretty similar yeah! This sounds really good. And this will be just what is at launch, if it's anything like Diablo III, end game will get multiple complete overhauls as time goes on.
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Feb 11, 2023 19:58
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paid money to post posted:I actually really enjoyed it, but it don't think they unlock until the last world tier. Which felt really dumb, since the density in the open world was pretty sparse. The density felt weird, sometimes you'd have no enemies around then you get a lot of them. Endgame was looking at the map, finding whatever gave you most points for the tree or a world boss and doing that. Each event on the map gave you between 1-5 points toward the tree thing and at 10 you got a chest of goodies and a bunch of xp, along with those things you modify dungeons with. Those sigils also dropped from the dungeons themselves and you'd always have more than you spent
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Feb 11, 2023 20:04
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Okay that sounds really awesome and accessible. Thank you everyone for the explanations! I am getting excited now that I am looking to replace Lost Ark because Amazon is intentionally tanking that game.
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Feb 11, 2023 20:12
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Items to boost up dungeons you say? Sounds like perfect things for a cash shop.
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Feb 11, 2023 20:12
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Mustached Demon posted:Items to boost up dungeons you say? Sounds like perfect things for a cash shop. Yeah the cash shop is something I worry about. It's bad enough there will be season passes.
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Feb 11, 2023 20:13
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I said come in! posted:That is pretty similar yeah! This sounds really good. And this will be just what is at launch, if it's anything like Diablo III, end game will get multiple complete overhauls as time goes on. I do not want to squash your optimism, but there isn't a reason to think this will be anything like Diablo 3 About the only similarity between their developments is that they are both overlong, tumultuous, and the sign outside of the building where people are crunching for months still says "Blizzard" The most recent Diablo release was Immortal. I think it's gonna be closer to that.
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Feb 11, 2023 21:49
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big cummers ONLY posted:I do not want to squash your optimism, but there isn't a reason to think this will be anything like Diablo 3 So a massive cash grab that gets abandoned after the first few seasons when it doesn't turn into the billion dollar a year games as a service they are hoping for?
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Feb 11, 2023 22:04
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D3 made a big ole chunk of change so hopefully that's enough motivation for them not to monetize everything in D4.
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Feb 11, 2023 22:08
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Field Mousepad posted:D3 made a big ole chunk of change so hopefully that's enough motivation for them not to monetize everything in D4. And even then though, the AH failing and a lot of people abandoning the game, is why the second planned expansion got canceled.  regardless D3 was extremely good once the paragon and greater rift/rift system got implemented.
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Feb 11, 2023 22:10
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I said come in! posted:And even then though, the AH failing and a lot of people abandoning the game, is why the second planned expansion got canceled. Which is weird because D3 is in like the top 25 of most copies ever sold. It's on the same level as breath of the wild and Skyrim.
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Feb 11, 2023 22:19
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And half of those sales are on console so you can’t even say it was all pre-release hype.
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Feb 11, 2023 22:23
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Mustached Demon posted:Which is weird because D3 is in like the top 25 of most copies ever sold. It's on the same level as breath of the wild and Skyrim. 10th best selling game ever according to a quick Google search
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Feb 11, 2023 22:51
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Field Mousepad posted:10th best selling game ever according to a quick Google search That is really impressive, it certainly deserves its success. I wish D3 had gotten more post content support than it did, but Blizzard turned all of its employees into dust.
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Feb 11, 2023 22:56
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I said come in! posted:So a massive cash grab that gets abandoned after the first few seasons when it doesn't turn into the billion dollar a year games as a service they are hoping for? Honestly everything I've heard about immortal is that it's fundamentally a fun game completely ruined by predatory microtransactions. I'm not sure being like immortal is a terrible thing as long as it doesn't include the monetisation. It won't be d3 but d3 has painted itself into a corner design wise so I imagine we'll see some combination of Diablo and PoE. I've always bounced off the itemisation in PoE but I really want to like it. I know lots of people are down about D4 but I'm optimistic that it'll be fun at least.
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Feb 11, 2023 23:46
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HOTS and StarCraft are both now abandoned franchises specifically because Kotik is only allowing billion dollar IPs to remain. With Immortal being not even close to carrying that, you have to come up with all the ideas that they will have to do to cover the difference with Diablo IV.
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Feb 12, 2023 00:06
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Dameius posted:HOTS and StarCraft are both now abandoned franchises specifically because Kotik is only allowing billion dollar IPs to remain. With Immortal being not even close to carrying that, you have to come up with all the ideas that they will have to do to cover the difference with Diablo IV. Were they pretty happy with the latest wow expansion? I feel like the RTS genee has been in a rut for a while now or I'm just not looking where I should for it. AOE one kind of bombed didn't it?
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Feb 12, 2023 00:15
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Mymla posted:The reviews will be extremely positive, but I''m not sure what that has to do with anything. I agree. I swear gamer opinion on major franchises is cyclical and has nothing to do with whether poo poo is actually fun/good or not. General consensus is that "Diablo 3 bad" so "Diablo 4 good" will be the reception. See also: D&D 4th vs 5th edition. Making a game "more like" Diablo 2 has absolutely 0 appeal to me, Diablo 2 is not fun at all without mods, and that was the case for me even when it was contemporary. It doesn't help that I also find D4 to be extremely visually unappealing. e: I also forgot about them talking about making pvp a focus in Diablo 4 development, which to me is just insane as Diablo has never been a pvp game.
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Feb 12, 2023 00:32
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Mustached Demon posted:Were they pretty happy with the latest wow expansion? Haven't played WoW since the first xpac so no idea. As far as RTS goes, I know a good chunk of the SC2 team jumped ship together and are making their own IP for the genre and from all accounts I've heard without following it closely it sounds like they're on the right track. e: This video, as a now casual fan of RTS does a good job of explaining what's the deal with the genre now in my opinion and the game they're making is hitting on all the advice he gives. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XehNK7UpZsc Dameius fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Feb 12, 2023 |
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Feb 12, 2023 00:34
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Chalks posted:Honestly everything I've heard about immortal is that it's fundamentally a fun game completely ruined by predatory microtransactions. I'm not sure being like immortal is a terrible thing as long as it doesn't include the monetisation. I wouldn't mind the itemization being more like poe but not to the degree they take it. Some more complexity would be cool but don't make me have to download add ons to put a playable build together that poo poo sucks.
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Feb 12, 2023 01:05
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WarEternal posted:I agree. I swear gamer opinion on major franchises is cyclical and has nothing to do with whether poo poo is actually fun/good or not. General consensus is that "Diablo 3 bad" so "Diablo 4 good" will be the reception. See also: D&D 4th vs 5th edition. diablo 3 has generally been considered good ever since RoS. particularly the console versions, which are apparently amazing. the only big criticism people still seem to have for D3 is that the endgame is shallow/repetitive and the build diversity being kind of artificially constrained by sets. conversely idk if I've seen many people saying that they think d4 will be good. wait and see seems to be the most common feeling towards d4 and the marketing/hype building seems to have really struggled to find a foothold. diablo 1 had extremely prominent pvp diablo 2 had very popular pvp, albeit you could turn it off so it was less brutal than d1, town being a safe zone was also different diablo 3 was the first one that didn't have any meaningful pvp, but it was absolutely a big part of 1 and 2
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Feb 12, 2023 11:34
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PVP is stupid in these games. Every class should be designed with ridiculous OP bullshit in PVE in mind and tempering any of that with sacred pvp balance in mind is a waste that should be ignored. D3's pvp is almost perfect.
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Feb 12, 2023 17:07
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Dameius posted:PVP is stupid in these games. Every class should be designed with ridiculous OP bullshit in PVE in mind and tempering any of that with sacred pvp balance in mind is a waste that should be ignored. D3's pvp is almost perfect.
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Feb 12, 2023 17:15
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Suburban Dad posted:100%. Does pvp even exist in 3 or is that the joke? I have never tried it but saw there's some brawler guy or mode or something. I hate pvp and it was so annoying in D2 when you'd be minding your own business and some jerk would come try to gank you.  Technically it exists in the form of a pvp arena that you can tp to from town which is why I said it is almost perfect instead of perfect.
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Feb 12, 2023 17:18
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The pvp in D2 existed solely for griefing people. It was awful.
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Feb 12, 2023 17:29
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My only contact with PVP in D2 was seeing how quickly I can press Escape + Save/Exit in a HC game after someone else turns hostile.
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Feb 12, 2023 17:44
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I universally deduct points from anything where the term "PvP" is used. It's used to denote that you will either: A) Get loving torched by someone who, due to level/gear/class/whatever, is a player-killing machine B) Get loving torched by someone who, due to exclusively playing the PvP mode in a preformed comp 16 hours a day since launch, is a player-killing machine Competitive games are great. Co-op games are great. Trying to mix them just screws everything up past like the first week.
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Feb 12, 2023 18:16
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Cry moar, newbs jk
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Feb 12, 2023 18:18
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It is very funny to watch D2 streamers attempt to describe PvP with any sort of nuance like "oh yes, this rare item could have several useful applications for dueling" when the actual experience is just a clusterfuck of YOLOing it up and hoping you don't die first.
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Feb 12, 2023 18:23
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I think one way actual PvP could work in a game like diablo is 1. Actual PvP gear. Either PvP and pve only so they're completely separate (I believe more in this) or something wow did later where gear from pvp invests points into a PvP only stat, making it worse (but not useless) for pve, ans similarly pve gear is worse in PvP because it lacks the PvP stat. But more importantly 2. Basically make a moba? 1v1 might work but better with teams, except you play your character, kill creeps, in-match progression maybe? Could have xp/gold for upgrades or whatever. A moba match with the combat mechanics of diablo feels like it could be pretty fun.
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Feb 12, 2023 18:27
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PvP was only interesting in Diablo 1 in my opinion because it was a brand new concept to gaming, and you dropped loot/equipment when you were killed.
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Feb 12, 2023 18:53
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You used to be able to steal gear in D2 back when you could only have one corpse. The strategy was to gank players right outside of town, then drop a bunch of junk near the corpse while they ressed. Then if the player attempted to click on their body they'd pick up a bunch of worthless junk and you could loot their gear after killing them a second time. Eventually Blizzard changed it so that you could have up to 30 corpses on the ground or something like that.
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Feb 12, 2023 19:00
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exquisite tea posted:You used to be able to steal gear in D2 back when you could only have one corpse. The strategy was to gank players right outside of town, then drop a bunch of junk near the corpse while they ressed. Then if the player attempted to click on their body they'd pick up a bunch of worthless junk and you could loot their gear after killing them a second time. Eventually Blizzard changed it so that you could have up to 30 corpses on the ground or something like that. An immaculate game with no flaws.
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Feb 12, 2023 19:09
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Diablo 3 had planned a 3v3 arena game mode before release, but it got pushed to a post-release patch and then canned completely. It kinda creates a reward-structure problem: do you add an entire parallel gear structure for PvP which doesn't really fit the PvE gameplay loop, or do you make it entirely cosmetic rewards and reduce its appeal to poopsockers, or do you risk making PvP the path of least resistance to PvE gearing (which the poopsockers will do and then complain about the whole time they're doing it)?
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Feb 12, 2023 21:08
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I built dueling characters in Diablo 2 pre lod, it was great fun. Not hostiling random players, but going in the duel games. I think I ran a bone spirit / decrepify necromancer. This was before immunities and before runewords. You leveled in groups doing chaos runs. It was a good time, although I don't think I won a lot.
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Feb 12, 2023 21:51
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Dameius posted:PVP is stupid in these games. Every class should be designed with ridiculous OP bullshit in PVE in mind and tempering any of that with sacred pvp balance in mind is a waste that should be ignored. D3's pvp is almost perfect.  lol
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Feb 12, 2023 21:59
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Idk if they take some of the fun stuff from d2 and also keep things from d3 like how smooth the fighting* is, it could be epic. *i think this is one of the best parts of d3 and why I bounced off some other games like it. Path of Exile like chunky and clunky in comparison.
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Feb 13, 2023 18:16
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The problem with pvp in pve games is that the only people who want it, are people who want to pvp with people who don't like or want pvp. If you just make it so that people who want pvp only play against each other, it turns out almost nobody wants that. Edit: unless the rewards for doing it are really good and worth just slamming your head against it for 1000 matches until you accidentally get the correct number of wins, but even then, it just makes people miserable until they get their reward and the only joy is not ever having to do it again. The nice thing about FFXIV for example, is that it technically does have PVP, but it is for all intents and purposes a separate minigame. Every ability works differently and just happens to have the same name as its normal equivalent. Also the entry-level game mode is a 24v24v24 clusterfuck where your skill or lack thereof has almost no bearing on the actual outcome of the game so you might be able to get a couple kills, or run around with a pack and mulch random stragglers but nobody cares too much because the result is almost entirely random and the gameplay is just entertaining enough to entice you to get your daily reward most days. Also you get most of the daily reward just for participating.
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Feb 13, 2023 18:26
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