|
Who's your 2022 MVP? This poll is closed. |
|||
|---|---|---|---|
| Shohei Ohtani |
|
50 | 59.52% |
| Aaron Judge |
|
19 | 22.62% |
| Hey, the national league has an MVP too you know! |
|
15 | 17.86% |
| Total: | 84 votes | ||
|
Last time this came up someone posted a stat about how few games go past eleven innings. I agree just end it in a tie at that point. Hell I’d rather regular season games end in a tie after nine rather than use the ghost runner.
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 19:43
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 11:35 |
|
|
Folks, let's not act like Europeans now
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 19:44
|
|
|
IcePhoenix posted:Because it ends the games faster and honestly it wouldn't shock me if everyone involved in long extra inning games hates them. Does it? If each team gets the ghost runner, they have equal chances of tying it back and forth.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 19:44
|
|
|
For whatever reason ties are a hard sell in US sports even though everyone always goes nuts with glee any time an NFL game looks like it might end in a tie or a QB forgets that games can end in a tie
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 19:44
|
|
|
Red posted:Does it? If each team gets the ghost runner, they have equal chances of tying it back and forth. In a vacuum they have an equal chance, but the odds are only like 50% IIRC so if a team scores in the top they have about the same advantage that the home team does in the bottom when the away team doesn't score e: I explained that badly. The odds of scoring one or more runs with a runner on second and no outs is about 50/50. So if the away team scores in the top, the odds swing pretty heavily in their favor. If they don't, the odds swing heavily in the home team's favor I guess it's similar to when college football overtime forces two point tries after I think three? possessions Intruder fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Feb 13, 2023 |
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 19:46
|
|
|
Dinosaurs! posted:Last time this came up someone posted a stat about how few games go past eleven innings. I agree just end it in a tie at that point. Hell I’d rather regular season games end in a tie after nine rather than use the ghost runner. Ending regular season games in ties would be wonderful and far superior to the dumb extra innings Manfred Man. Keep normal extras in for the playoffs.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 19:46
|
|
|
15+ inning games own, this is MLB trying to bring down "average game time".
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 19:47
|
|
|
Red posted:That's stupid. I wonder why they love this stupid rule? The players like it because it pretty much kills long games, meaning they’re guaranteed to get back to their house/hotel/plane on time. Managers and executives like it because it allows them to better control pitcher innings. Owners like it because it makes TV programming more stable. I feel like the threat of extra innings does a lot of work keeping pitchers and managers honest, but who cares what I think?
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 19:47
|
|
|
I haven’t had any real issue with the other rule changes, but the ghost runner rule is stupid bullshit and ruins extra innings, one of the more exciting parts of baseball
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 19:48
|
|
|
Intruder posted:What is this bullshit Games featuring position players pitching: 2016: 26 2021: 95 https://twitter.com/CodifyBaseball/status/1537474132392022016
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 19:50
|
|
|
Red posted:That's stupid. I wonder why they love this stupid rule? Players like it because nobody likes working forced, unpaid overtime. Owners like it because it's less likely they'll have to pay overtime to ballpark staff to hang around for an extra hour. The league likes it because cable partners have been banging down the doors to shorten games so they can more easily schedule other programming around them. Everybody wins, except the fans.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 19:52
|
|
|
I do love when a game goes so long the broadcast runs out of commercials and they just keep it rolling between innings.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 19:56
|
|
|
Red posted:That's stupid. I wonder why they love this stupid rule?
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 20:08
|
|
|
Dinosaurs! posted:Last time this came up someone posted a stat about how few games go past eleven innings. I agree just end it in a tie at that point. Hell I’d rather regular season games end in a tie after nine rather than use the ghost runner. Given how much of a valuable commodity pitchers' arms are, I'm surprised they didn't just say 'you get the 10th to break a tie and that's it'.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 20:11
|
|
|
bawfuls posted:This but tie after 12 not 13. It’s one extra time through the batting order. I would sign that. I only included 13 because playing that inning sounds cool.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 20:12
|
|
|
Red posted:Does it? If each team gets the ghost runner, they have equal chances of tying it back and forth. This article dives into it but the short answer is yes, and by an incredibly significant margin https://metsmerizedonline.com/extra-innings-and-the-ghost-runner-rule-two-years-later/ I think my dream/compromise scenario would be two innings as god intended with no rule changes, one inning of ghost runners, then a tie.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 20:14
|
|
|
Someone way back suggested that teams be allowed to bat anyone in any order instead of a ghost runner. Even that sounds more exciting to me. Purists would be upset about stars getting like 25 extra ABs a season but whatever.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 20:24
|
|
|
Red posted:That's stupid. I wonder why they love this stupid rule? I'm OK with ties but no sports leagues are.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 20:25
|
|
|
Popete posted:15+ inning games own, this is MLB trying to bring down "average game time". MLB still thinks game length is why the sport is bleeding fans and not the fact that you need to pay a ridiculous amount for an overpriced cable package just to watch your local team.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 20:26
|
|
|
Traxis posted:MLB still thinks game length is why the sport is bleeding fans I hear this a lot - both from sports media and sports talk - but can anyone quantify it? What metrics are showing this, revenue is only going up and up and it's really hard to accomplish that when you're bleeding customers. Yes I have seen concession prices.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 20:28
|
|
|
I know it's weird but I really don't mind ghost runner, it often makes the bottom of the tenth super exciting. Still would like at least ONE normal extra inning though
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 20:31
|
|
|
zoux posted:I hear this a lot - both from sports media and sports talk - but can anyone quantify it? What metrics are showing this, revenue is only going up and up and it's really hard to accomplish that when you're bleeding customers. Yes I have seen concession prices. I think the issue isn't so much losing current fans but not adding new ones. The average age of MLB fans is like 57. Once the boomers die off the sport will take a hit.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 20:32
|
|
|
zoux posted:https://twitter.com/jesserogersespn/status/1625192309234221057?s=46&t=j4f_mP_hfALkP4x3IKXZUA I'm fine with this because this is exactly how position players pitching worked for years before until recently when too cute managers started putting in position players in like the sixth inning of a blowout.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 20:33
|
|
|
Traxis posted:I think the issue isn't so much losing current fans but not adding new ones. The average age of MLB fans is like 57. Once the boomers die off the sport will take a hit. MLB says the number of young fans is rising? I've heard for decades that baseball is too boring and is losing fans, ownership clearly believes it as they try to find ways to make the game "better" to attract new fans, sports media clearly believes it, but I'm just looking for actual numbers that can measure fan engagement and I can't find them. Google does suck now, to be fair. Ammat The Ankh posted:I'm fine with this because this is exactly how position players pitching worked for years before until recently when too cute managers started putting in position players in like the sixth inning of a blowout. They can still do that if they're down by 8 or up by 10. They should have to forfeit and take the opprobrium that comes with it or they should put some quad A guy in their bullpen to be the sacrificial lamb in blowout games.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 20:37
|
|
|
I know I’m in the minority, but I’m glad baseball is attempting to do away with 12+ inning regular season games. Hockey has the right idea: Gimmick it up during the grueling regular season, save the real poo poo for the playoffs. The ghost runner is a weird way to accomplish this goal, but the numbers say it works, so whatever.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 20:44
|
|
|
Players are cowards for wanting to go home earlier
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 20:44
|
|
|
I hate the ghost runner, but yeah it was inevitable since there's like no argument against it except "it sucks." Players don't want to play more. Managers don't want to have to gently caress with their bullpen. Owners don't want to give away "free baseball." MLB wants shorter games. We're thankfully never even considering ties and the one time an All Star Game ended in one we freaked out. So like... this was always gonna happen whether I like it or not and I can't make a persuasive argument against it. I just don't like it. I don't like the position player pitching rule either but like I ain't in a place to get stupid mad about stupid rule changes that affect the random thing a few times a season.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 20:46
|
|
|
Traxis posted:I think the issue isn't so much losing current fans but not adding new ones. The average age of MLB fans is like 57. Once the boomers die off the sport will take a hit. Is this really true? I see it repeated often. I feel like that data comes from Nielsen, which, I have no idea how reliable that really is. A Google search suggests that that number comes from a 2017 by SBJ. https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Journal/Issues/2017/06/05/Research-and-Ratings/Viewership-trends.aspx quote:Source: Magna Global's analysis of Nielsen and U.S. Census data. So yeah, I'm skeptical: https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/nielsen-ratings-tv-network-miscount-1235142154/ (DEC2021) quote:Nielsen has been under intense scrutiny for months. The Media Rating Council, an industry body that verifies audience measurement processes, removed its accreditation of Nielsen’s national and local ratings services in September after determining the company underestimated traditional TV audiences during the pandemic. That aside, I have to think Nielsen data is flawed; their invites are done by mail or phone, as far as I know, and most (younger) people throw those away.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 20:48
|
|
|
e. ^ Nielsen is utterly worthless as a viewer engagement metric these days. They've completely failed to modernize their approach to data collection. zoux posted:I hear this a lot - both from sports media and sports talk - but can anyone quantify it? What metrics are showing this, revenue is only going up and up and it's really hard to accomplish that when you're bleeding customers. Yes I have seen concession prices. Nobody can quantify it because it's not a real issue. It's a made up reason to justify implementing a bunch of new rules the league and owners like under the guise of supposedly needing to save the sport that, as you've said, is raking in massive revenue growth year over year.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 20:51
|
|
|
Sydin posted:e. ^ Nielsen is utterly worthless as a viewer engagement metric these days. They've completely failed to modernize their approach to data collection. A friend of mine had a Nielsen box as a kid, and would routinely "tell" the box a bunch of people were watching his favorite shows with him. There's no good way to accurately measure TV watching, because it's always going to rely on self-reported data.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 21:04
|
|
|
Ammat The Ankh posted:I'm fine with this because this is exactly how position players pitching worked for years before until recently when too cute managers started putting in position players in like the sixth inning of a blowout. mcmagic posted:I'm OK with ties but no sports leagues are.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 21:12
|
|
|
zoux posted:MLB says the number of young fans is rising? I've heard for decades that baseball is too boring and is losing fans, ownership clearly believes it as they try to find ways to make the game "better" to attract new fans, sports media clearly believes it, but I'm just looking for actual numbers that can measure fan engagement and I can't find them. Google does suck now, to be fair. Ya, I guess it's impossible to know for sure considering the party with the access to the best data also has a massive incentive to lie about it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 21:14
|
|
|
zoux posted:https://twitter.com/JesseRogersESPN/status/1625191805909360640 News from next year, the competition committee has decreed that the seventh and subsequent innings will be played with a tee ball stand.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 21:21
|
|
|
bawfuls posted:I don’t think it has anything to do with managers getting “too cute” and everything to do with managers and front offices paying attention to win expectancy and being more focused on pitcher usage than ever before.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 21:21
|
|
|
Lotta sister kissers ittSTAC Goat posted:I don't like the position player pitching rule either but like I ain't in a place to get stupid mad about stupid rule changes that affect the random thing a few times a season. The issue is that it's going from a fun and rare occurence from guys who play a position in the bigs but were pretty good pitchers in college and high school to a once a week thing. Besides that velo decrease tweet I posted earlier, another staggering stat is that 48 homeruns were hit off of position pitchers last year, compared to 40 total pitches thrown by PPs in 2008. Basically it's a fun thing when it's very rare and it's becoming much less so zoux fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Feb 13, 2023 |
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 21:30
|
|
|
Traxis posted:Ya, I guess it's impossible to know for sure considering the party with the access to the best data also has a massive incentive to lie about it. Yeah, my impression is that there's evidence to suggest baseball is losing interest with young fans but also a lot of that is probably the way younger tv viewers are abandoning measurably ways to watch across the board and that baseball has always been a slow, methodical game that leans towards long term fans instead of new fans. Baseball's always found a way to make fans and I really don't think that will change. Parents will bring their kids to games, bandwagons will form when your local team wins, and baseball will always be a great way to kill a lazy afternoon in a way no other sport is. But I dunno. There probably is real evidence that the slow pace doesn't compete well against the NFL or NBA in a vacuum. But that's probably always been the case. And I suspect that its not as bad as it seems separate from just the overall "crisis" of TV and entertainment audiences.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 21:51
|
|
|
I'm just tired of baseball putting its thumb on the scale in favor of the hitters in the form of taking very reaonable strategic tools like the shift and roster construction out of the hands of the teams.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 21:56
|
|
|
The latest data I can find on revenue is 2020 is obvious, 2021 was still pandemic-y so I'd need to see '22 and then eventually '23 data to see if that's a permanent change in trend, but I doubt it. But revenue continuing to increase indicates to me that popularity isn't waning. Though I'd have to see how it breaks down by team, maybe most of that revenue growth is going to a handful of the top teams (I think NYY brings in more revenue than like the rest of the league combined) while other teams are seeing declines. But the fact that we can't find a single piece of probative evidence that shows a meaningful decline in baseball fandom is itself a pretty big piece of probative evidence. Like look at this article from 2022, from a data scientist. But he doesn't show any attendance, viewership, or revenue numbers, just polls with people saying that baseball is their second favorite sport or the number of insta followers Mike Trout has or how "boring" baseball is. zoux fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Feb 13, 2023 |
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 21:58
|
|
|
I love baseball but man I fuckin hate MLB
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 22:00
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 11:35 |
|
|
zoux posted:
But maybe that's just me.
|
|
#
?
Feb 13, 2023 22:04
|
|