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Gonzo McFee posted:It was a fine game but the story was utter crap. "Apartheid is bad but also slave revolts are violent so they're just as bad as each other, also you are alternate time line Jefferson Davis." My feelings on the story were, Bioshock had a really interesting setting being "a revolution happened in this place. It's over now, do what you are seeing is the aftermath." Where as Bioshock: Infinite went we "this place is primed for a Revolution. And you are about to see it happen." Like I get why people didn't like the story. But from my memory of playing the game when it came out, the City of Colmbia are the badguys in it. It's just that the Revolutionaries are bringing out the guillotines, so you are probably going to be killed along with everyone else. I can see why having to kill Revolutionaries and racist bigots at the same time is really bad, but I felt it made sense from the story point of view. Like the violence in the game was really uncomfortable to play through, but you have a circular saw mounted to your wrist. When you start using that on humans, it should make you feel uncomfortable in a way that doing it to demons in Doom doesn't. It's a game with a specific message about there being no glorious Revolution, along with lots of stuff about alternate dimensions. Edit: Three pets who are waiting for the Revolution against their human overlords. 
The Question IRL fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Feb 15, 2023 |
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Feb 15, 2023 13:56
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Her Dryer posted:I did actually quite enjoy the game right up until you go through the first dimensional portal thing, at which point the game entirely fell apart both narratively and gameplay wise - the classic Bioshock problem of enemies becoming unfun bullet sponges, useless plasmids, introducing new guns after spending hundreds of dollars upgrading my old ones, the one boss I shouldn't need to name because everyone knows what I mean when I talk about the one very bad boss near the end of the game. Do you mean the Ghost boss fight? Since I remember that being a whole ball of frustration dressed as a boss fight. And I do agree that they had lots of story ideas. Some worked and some needed more time in the oven. It also really should have had the planned bit where you end up on the Citadel Space Station near the end.
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Feb 15, 2023 13:59
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The Question IRL posted:It's a game with a specific message about there being no glorious Revolution, exactly, it's lib poo poo
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Feb 15, 2023 13:59
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2 had no pacing and the levels were repetitive. At least in 1 you had some variety and environmental storytelling, but 2 was clearing the same tilesets over and over until a room defence setpiece you could easily cheese once you had the right plasmids. I don't think I finished it because I really didn't know or care about what was going on with the story, it really gave off very strong "play more bioshock you hogs since you gave us so much money for the 1st one" vibes. E: I seem to remember giving up at a room where the setpiece was going to be, looking at the turrets I was going to have to hack, working up what I was going to tripwire, and thinking "I've done this every loving level so far, this isn't fun anymore." Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Feb 15, 2023 |
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Feb 15, 2023 14:03
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Necrothatcher posted:exactly, it's lib poo poo I think there are no glorious revolutions. The aftermath might (MIGHT) produce good results, but the reality of a revolution is at the time, a lot of people are getting shot in the face. Bobby Deluxe posted:2 had no pacing and the levels were repetitive. At least in 1 you had some variety and environmental storytelling, but 2 was clearing the same tilesets over and over until a room defence setpiece you could easily cheese once you had the right plasmids. It's very much the problem of second albums. You had all your life to come up with that killer first album/script. You have 6- 18 months to do the second one. Bideo James are littered with sequels that are just data disc like redoes of the first game. (Who can forget "UFO: Enemy Unknown" to "X-Com: Terror From the Deep.") Like it's not as bad as Hollywood is with cheap sequels, but it's still a thing that comes up. The Question IRL fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Feb 15, 2023 |
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Feb 15, 2023 14:03
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Bobby Deluxe posted:2 had no pacing and the levels were repetitive. At least in 1 you had some variety and environmental storytelling, but 2 was clearing the same tilesets over and over until a room defence setpiece you could easily cheese once you had the right plasmids. Also the plot was a very funny attempt to balance the themes of the first game by going after collectivism, but whereas the first game has a sort of logical example of how Randian societies would destroy themselves, in 2 it was something about a literal evil hivemind?
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Feb 15, 2023 14:07
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Infinite's way of showing there's no glorious revolutions was for the newly freed slave underclass to go "now it's time to kill some white babies who's with me woooooo racism owns when you're on top"
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Feb 15, 2023 14:08
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Dabir posted:Infinite's way of showing there's no glorious revolutions was for the newly freed slave underclass to go "now it's time to kill some white babies who's with me woooooo racism owns when you're on top" it's fine, they retroactively justified the child murder in the DLC the plot was always dumb, cowardly "both sides are bad the truth is in the middle here's a lighthouse so you can tell we're insightful" trash and the game was overlong and full of palette-swapped enemies
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Feb 15, 2023 14:11
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The Question IRL posted:My feelings on the story were, Bioshock had a really interesting setting being "a revolution happened in this place. It's over now, do what you are seeing is the aftermath." Where as Bioshock: Infinite went we "this place is primed for a Revolution. And you are about to see it happen." If you want a story that goes in the direction of "there is no glorious revolution" that's actually good, try Night Watch by Terry Pratchett (his take on Les Miserables). I no longer fully agree with the main thesis that they're called revolutions because things go round and round and nothing changes, with the bastards always ending up on top - one thing that's quite likely to change is that this particular set of fuckers who pushed their people a little too far will go up against the wall and go down in history as an example of what not to do, and when things have reached a certain point that's unfortunately good enough to be worth it. But it's incredibly well-written.
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Feb 15, 2023 14:15
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pumpinglemma posted:It literally forces you to kill the leader of the slave revolution and then start murdering your way through the entirety of its ranks because she's given into black savagery and is threatening a poor precious little white child, who is the son of the biggest and most evil slaver in the whole setting and almost certainly a poisonous little poo poo in his own right. It also expects you to be so immediately on side with this whole idea that it tries to use the child's impending death as a source of time pressure with no reaction whatsoever if you try to turn and leave or simply wait it out. I also played it when it came out, and I felt dirty afterwards. There's also the bit where they channel the Khmer Rhouge and have the revolutionaries giving out orders to summarily execute anyone wearing glasses. That's pretty much the only thing I still remember about Infinite because it summed up for me how hard they felt they had to go to force their dumb as gently caress "both sides are bad" narrative.
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Feb 15, 2023 14:17
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Her Dryer posted:Also the plot was a very funny attempt to balance the themes of the first game by going after collectivism, but whereas the first game has a sort of logical example of how Randian societies would destroy themselves, in 2 it was something about a literal evil hivemind? Like that sounds like a complex moral issue that a better game could have made more of, but I just didn't give a poo poo at all. I didn't know who I was, or why I was doing stuff for the radio voice lady, or who she was, or why I was doing any of it aside from "You bought the game, better get your money's worth." It's like that trust thermocline thing - you can take so much moral ambiguity and "but are they who they say they are" up to a point, but if you don't give the player something to hold on to (even if you use it as a rug to whip out from under the player later like Atlas), they're eventually going to disengage. I should be clear, I was really excited for 2 and felt powerfully let down by the setting, characters and story. At least Infinite had a metanarrative and gave you a really clear motivation early on for what you're doing (unless you're wildly racist). E: moved a paragraph. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Feb 15, 2023 |
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Feb 15, 2023 14:28
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This thread has been on form recently. We’ve gone from fizzy pop discourse to meat pudding discourse to discussing one of my all time favourite games discourse. Played through 1&2 remasters again recently and tried the Buried at Sea DLC. They all have their faults but still stand out as seminal works. When I’ve come to things like Prey and Dishonoured since all I can ever see are the Bioshock influences.
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Feb 15, 2023 14:38
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The Question IRL posted:.... Don't besmirch my continued enjoyment of the first two original X-Com games.  
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Feb 15, 2023 14:39
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Daisy Fitzroy was done dirty. Of course they then retconned it in the DLC to make out that she wasn’t actually bad she was just acting bad because she had to die in order for things to pan out properly or some bullshit. Been a long while since I played it so could be off a bit. Shame really because it’s gorgeous and the art direction is on point.
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Feb 15, 2023 14:43
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Lmao Nice
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Feb 15, 2023 14:59
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Very dismissive of William of Orange in here.
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Feb 15, 2023 15:00
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mossyfisk posted:Very dismissive of William of Orange in here. As a belfast resident I’m sick of seeing his stupid loving face every time I have to use the Gt Victoria St car park
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Feb 15, 2023 15:04
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Lord Ludikrous posted:Daisy Fitzroy was done dirty. Very big "we hired a black person" energy to this retcon.
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Feb 15, 2023 15:04
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Jesus Christ, I know politicians tend to be either unpopular or unknown, but those are apocalyptically bad stats even by the standards of popularity polls.
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Feb 15, 2023 15:05
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Sturgeon was the only one with charisma. And she's not incredibly charismatic. Personally I say Scotland should keep up the fish theme. Don't suppose the SNP have been hiding a Roger Cod?
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Feb 15, 2023 15:07
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A saviour emerges 
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Feb 15, 2023 15:12
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Just Another Lurker posted:Don't besmirch my continued enjoyment of the first two original X-Com games. Don't get me wrong. The first game is a masterpiece, so much so that periodically some games company will just make a new version of it, and it will be excellent. (See Xenonauts.) But the second game is just the first game reskinned. The only difference is the ultimate bullshit "gotcha" moment from the end of the first game (a double level map that screws you if you didn't bring tons of extra ammo.) is replicated for this entire game. And with a whole new "gotcha" mechanic. (Some weapons only work underwater. Some work above and below water. No, you can't use your old XCOM weapons when above water. gently caress you, that's why.) All with the added bonus that "players complained about the first game not being hard enough*? Well see how they like this one!" Then for the picture of "big ideas that couldn't make it" you have XCOM Apocalypse. A friend if mine did a Twitch Stream play through of it, that took him six months to complete. That game is janky. * = And players were right. Due to a bug in the original game, the game was permanently stuck on the easiest difficulty level. So the studio really ramped up the difficulty for TFTD.
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Feb 15, 2023 15:13
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The timing of this with the SNP and Starmer telling all the lefties to gently caress off from Labour seems quite orchestrated. I guess the country is jumping a few steps to the right... more so.
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Feb 15, 2023 15:15
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mossyfisk posted:Very dismissive of William of Orange in here. I've never had it. Is it closer to orangina or tango
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Feb 15, 2023 15:18
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It's funny that corbyn is still not allowed in after all the crying about purges while he was leader. He got so badly outplayed by fuckin Starmer lol.
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Feb 15, 2023 15:19
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Communist Thoughts posted:It's funny that corbyn is still not allowed in after all the crying about purges while he was leader. Imagine thinking this guy was gonna bring actually existing socialism to Britain.
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Feb 15, 2023 15:21
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https://twitter.com/gem_ste/status/1625804104961228801?s=46&t=qR5THEmytCnboPy29W_Txg
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Feb 15, 2023 15:24
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To come back to the optimism conversation - I’m certainly not optimistic and don’t think we really have much of a chance. On the other hand people have felt that way throughout history and overcame all the odds. History happens slowly, then all at once. And gently caress it, I might not be optimistic but I’d rather we went down with some fire in our eyes, kicking and screaming and biting. Remember that doomerism is what they want and countering that in yourself is a victory in itself.
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Feb 15, 2023 15:42
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phwoar keith's a shoe in for tory stooge of the year with a performance like that
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Feb 15, 2023 15:49
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Bioshock is good because it was a fresh streamlined take on an imersive sim game with great worldbuilding. Infinite is a call of duty game with nice set dressing. The city of columbia doesn't make any sense, its a series of flying buildings that arrange themselves into a perfectly linear corridor. Theres no pretense that this is a place prople live or exist in. it doesn't want you to actualy interact with the population of the city once the murder hook comes out despite the lavish opening having a billion civilians around. Its so clearly trying to replicate Bioshock 1 in a very shallow way. A game about an ongoing revolution that still feels like you're trudging through the aftermath of it instead, where your character will eat beans out of a garbage can while standing in an actually open green grocers. Where enormous voice recorders litter the ground with messages recorded ten minutes before the player arrived for seemingly no reason. Not to mention the actual time travel and dimension hopping is about as well thought out as a particularly bad episode of dr who. I can only imagine the disney princess lady standing around the drowned main character with her alternate timeline selves all starting to wonder why they thought drowning their father years after he conceived them would achieve anything.
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Feb 15, 2023 15:49
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ken levine famously said that he wrote quantum physics into bioshock infinite specifically because he said he doesn't understand it. that tells you all you need to know about ken and bioshock infinite
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Feb 15, 2023 15:52
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Ken Levine shut his game studio down because he was bored with it
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Feb 15, 2023 15:56
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Well richard feynman also said that And he was a quantum physicist
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Feb 15, 2023 15:56
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Jakabite posted:To come back to the optimism conversation - I’m certainly not optimistic and don’t think we really have much of a chance. On the other hand people have felt that way throughout history and overcame all the odds. History happens slowly, then all at once. The difference is that with climate change, we now have a set time limit for when we can put the needed changes in. And we’re out of time Ziggy Tzardust fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Feb 15, 2023 |
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Feb 15, 2023 15:57
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Ziggy Tzardust posted:The difference is that with climate change, we now have a set time limit for when we can put the needed changes in. And we’re out of time Yeah that’s true. Kicking and biting it is then I suppose
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Feb 15, 2023 16:02
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Still need to raise the energy price cap though https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1625876068258258944?s=20
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Feb 15, 2023 16:26
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sinky posted:Still need to raise the energy price cap though I thought it was the extractors who were doing so well, but the poor little consumer suppliers were struggling?
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Feb 15, 2023 16:46
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Lady Gaza posted:I thought it was the extractors who were doing so well, but the poor little consumer suppliers were struggling? British Gas are a producer (what you call extractor) as well as a supplier. Most suppliers are still on the same margins they were beforehand.
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Feb 15, 2023 16:48
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mossyfisk posted:Very dismissive of William of Orange in here. I'm not even sure he actually liked oranges.  edit for reply: The Question IRL posted:Don't get me wrong. The first game is a masterpiece, so much so that periodically some games company will just make a new version of it, and it will be excellent. (See Xenonauts.) Many a hair was pulled out in frustration with TFTD for sure. lol I have them all but other than X-Com Interceptor i've never bothered with them. Just Another Lurker fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Feb 15, 2023 |
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Feb 15, 2023 16:54
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It’s almost as if price increases are actually just to make sure they keep making profits at the level they’ve become accustomed to 
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Feb 15, 2023 16:59
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