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Danann posted:speaking of railchat: This chart tells me the Australians took their "road train" idea way too seriously.
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Feb 18, 2023 01:55
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Bar Ran Dun posted:right and what I’m trying to communicate to you is: that rail ain’t cutting it because they can't move as much volume as ships and they cost a lot more. Yeah, neither rail nor boats are cutting it on their own, but because of where the factories are located both are necessary to get things to where they can kill people. I think in the case of america, the choke point is the railways because america has a dogshit rail system. Unless they need to kill a bunch of people in lima, oh or Baltimore with tanks or artillery, respectively
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Feb 18, 2023 02:11
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Hatebag posted:Yeah, neither rail nor boats are cutting it on their own, but because of where the factories are located both are necessary to get things to where they can kill people. I think in the case of america, the choke point is the railways because america has a dogshit rail system. it’s was the marine terminals that were the limiting factor and bottleneck and that’s still a long term structural problem. it’s very recent become the rail, almost entirely due to extremely bad management. it’s like a who can poo poo the harder competition between modes these days. we need a National Port Authority (that deals with marine and rail terminals) and one powerful enough to not take bullshit from either rail carriers or steamship lines. edit to be clear here it needs managed as a whole intermodal system.
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Feb 18, 2023 02:34
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Bar Ran Dun posted:no not really. it’s very much barges and ships in the US. I literally have to go do work at a steel mill every week and this is complete horseshit.
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Feb 18, 2023 02:38
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Delta-Wye posted:he claims (reasonably) that industrial warfare is a stochastic process and can be modeled and understood mathematically. when he shows his soviet war manuals they look suspiciously like one of my engineering textooks - i can't read the russian text and wouldn't have noticed the difference honestly it's true that the Soviets did try to approach warfighting as a science and as a repeatable process: an entrenched enemy, in x terrain, with y combatants, is supposed to be handled with z tactics, calling for n types of troops, with an artillery barrage of m tubes firing p number of shells this is different from comparisons to McNamara's whiz kids trying to apply statistical analysis to strategic bombing in Japan or COIN operations in Vietnam, because body-counts didn't shape how the units actually fought having said that, a big part of why the Soviets approached military science the way they did, as far as I know, is that this was a way to simplify the implementation of their doctrines among an officer corps that they thought needed the help. That is, by providing leaders with a "cookie-cutter" approach to any foreseeable military scenario, they should be able to "raise the floor" of competency, rather than the German (and later American) way of war, where higher independence among commanders "raises the ceiling"
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Feb 18, 2023 02:48
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Fell Mood posted:I literally have to go do work at a steel mill every week and this is complete horseshit. I used to do the draft surveys on the vessel discharges for pellets , fines, etc at several major us steel mills for a solid decade.
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Feb 18, 2023 02:59
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EOF mill or a BF-BOF mill?
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Feb 18, 2023 03:04
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bofa you guys are showing your nuts
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Feb 18, 2023 03:05
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The thing I worked on is the most important thing in the world! The. Most. Important.
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Feb 18, 2023 03:15
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Bar Ran Dun posted:a steel mill superfund site I used to go look at barges at is now a presidential library and housing development. Rich idiots from the Mid West pay tens of thousands of dollars a year to live above a massive superfund site in Brooklyn. It's the craziest loving thing. Though I look at things like the domino sugar factory and think about how we used to have produtive building where people had jobs that paid well and now its all luxury apartments and condos for rich pedophiles
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Feb 18, 2023 03:17
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gradenko_2000 posted:it's true that the Soviets did try to approach warfighting as a science and as a repeatable process: an entrenched enemy, in x terrain, with y combatants, is supposed to be handled with z tactics, calling for n types of troops, with an artillery barrage of m tubes firing p number of shells Exactly right. It was better to have a small, highly educated group of extremely talented essentially scientists and engineers in uniform, develop nomographs, manuals, tables and other formulae and disseminate them to less educated and talented officers, which is to say concentrate skill and expertise, than to expect officers serving short duration conscriptions to be particularly skilled or educated in military affairs, distributed skill and expertise. So, rather than conscripted officers having a typical O Group to plan a road march, which would take variable time and have variable results, in wartime, have the experts devote time to studying the problem, in peacetime, then provide the results to those field grade guys who only need to apply the theory. If you look at just the mathematics education in a Soviet or Russian military academy, say the artillery one, it’s so far beyond what I or anyone I know, except one RCAF officer who has her degrees in math, were educated in or could do. But then if you look at the field grade planning, like what’s required in a battery O Group, we seem like the second coming of (insert brilliant military leader here). Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 03:39 on Feb 18, 2023 |
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Feb 18, 2023 03:33
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Bar Ran Dun posted:I used to do the draft surveys on the vessel discharges for pellets , fines, etc at several major us steel mills for a solid decade. Sounds like you've been out of the biz too long then. Your claim that rail is significantly less important than shipping is pure ignorance. Like I'm sure that you used to know what is sent by ship,, but did it not occur to you that you should know what is sent by rail as well if you were making a comparison?
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Feb 18, 2023 07:02
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Hell I'll make it easy. Domestically rail is twice as important as ship in the US, at keast as of 2017. https://www.bts.gov/topics/freight-transportation/freight-shipments-mode
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Feb 18, 2023 07:07
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Real hurthling! posted:bofa you guys are showing your nuts 
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Feb 18, 2023 07:14
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Fell Mood posted:Hell I'll make it easy. Domestically rail is twice as important as ship in the US, at keast as of 2017. again I’ve already explained why those numbers look like that. and domestically is a rather large caveat. 76% of all traded goods are moved by ship and 90% of all internationally traded goods are. it’s the worlds primary mode of transportation for anything we do.
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Feb 18, 2023 07:44
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Bar Ran Dun posted:again I’ve already explained why those numbers look like that. feels pretty safe to presume international civilian trade is going to suffer badly during/before the US loses WW3 particularly since so much of it would be between likely belligerents atelier morgan has issued a correction as of 08:06 on Feb 18, 2023 |
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Feb 18, 2023 08:00
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Ardennes posted:You need to rail one way or another to move armies and material around Eurasia, and if you control Eurasia, you are eventually going to control the world island. Eh. China imports a lot of oil over the sea route, doesn't it? Of course it's an open question how good the US supply routs are going to work if China's submarines get frisky and a lot of that oil is used to produce exports that are then no longer needed, but it's not a trivial problem for China either.
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Feb 18, 2023 11:07
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genericnick posted:Eh. China imports a lot of oil over the sea route, doesn't it? Of course it's an open question how good the US supply routs are going to work if China's submarines get frisky and a lot of that oil is used to produce exports that are then no longer needed, but it's not a trivial problem for China either. More recently they have been buying more Russian oil that is generally coming overland in the form of pipelines. If anything this war has accelerated all of this. Right now it is 20-25% of total imports but that is probably going to keep on rising. Right now capacity may still be an issue but it seems that more infrastructure including oil storage is being built and probably more and more Ural crude is going to be making its way to China. Also, China is not as dependent on food imports as people assume and the vast majority of calories comes from within China itself. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 12:12 on Feb 18, 2023 |
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Feb 18, 2023 11:56
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i'm about 100% sure that china is far less vulnerable to disruptions in seaborne trade than the us is, which seems to be the important part here
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Feb 18, 2023 12:10
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Seems to me any war will be fought closer to China and gently caress up it's sea lanes rather than the USA's.
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Feb 18, 2023 12:39
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Weka posted:Seems to me any war will be fought closer to China and gently caress up it's sea lanes rather than the USA's. Any war around China is going to screw up all of Asia's sea lanes and guess where the US is reliant on for its manufactured goods.
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Feb 18, 2023 12:51
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Weka posted:Seems to me any war will be fought closer to China and gently caress up it's sea lanes rather than the USA's. the submarine has, in fact, been invented also something like 90+% of the world's merchant ships are built in china, south korea or japan so there's no real way for the west to replace any that are sunk either
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Feb 18, 2023 14:42
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atelier morgan posted:feels pretty safe to presume international civilian trade is going to suffer badly during/before the US loses WW3 yes it’ll stop most to all production, anything with a global supply chain which is almost everything. The world is quietly moving towards being more regional in reaction, because covid and the war in Ukraine have made this apparent to the folks at the top. this is one of things contributing to inflation right now and it’s the one economists are ignoring because they think it shouldn’t be happening.
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Feb 18, 2023 17:53
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Ardennes posted:Any war around China is going to screw up all of Asia's sea lanes and guess where the US is reliant on for its manufactured goods. most of the United States production is Canada US Mexico, not to discount China entirely though because that’s also huge percentage. but even then primarily regional stuff has Asian inputs. but it also turns back to that earlier thread topic of where does China’s grain come from? they also have foreign inputs into their silly chains. currently everybody’s dependent on ocean trade
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Feb 18, 2023 18:05
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Trabisnikof posted:but really the question for the usa would be less about moving the specific military gear itself, but maintaining internal transport capacity in a peer conflict that lasts more than a few weeks. doesnt matter if you boat, truck, or train your tanks from the factory to the port if you dont have the fuel to do it or the electricity to run the factory or the food to feed the workers. Lmao they didn't take down the pipeline they took down the billing system and the company took down the pipeline to prevent people from inadvertently getting free oil.
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Feb 18, 2023 18:15
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Bar Ran Dun posted:yes it’ll stop most to all production, anything with a global supply chain which is almost everything. The world is quietly moving towards being more regional in reaction, because covid and the war in Ukraine have made this apparent to the folks at the top. How much of inflation is that and how much the EU now importing 51% Senegalese, totally not Russian oil with all the extra costs and tanker trips that involves?
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Feb 18, 2023 18:31
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genericnick posted:How much of inflation is that and how much the EU now importing 51% Senegalese, totally not Russian oil with all the extra costs and tanker trips that involves? nobody knows! I don’t think the specific math they are using is going to tell them either. so nobodies really asking either!
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Feb 18, 2023 18:39
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Not caught up but thanks to this thread im going to enlist in the space force
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Feb 18, 2023 19:00
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Definitely enlist in the Chinese space force
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Feb 18, 2023 19:03
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Slavvy posted:Definitely enlist in the Chinese space force Unless they put you in the balloonist corps.
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Feb 18, 2023 19:04
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Slavvy posted:Definitely enlist in the Chinese space force the united states space force site is tight as hell.
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Feb 18, 2023 19:04
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hell, steve carrell is in it 
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Feb 18, 2023 19:19
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look @ this command and conquer poo poo https://www.spaceforce.com/
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Feb 18, 2023 19:23
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Smythe posted:look @ this command and conquer poo poo https://www.spaceforce.com/ i expected GLA troops to start swarming the launch site juuust before liftoff
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Feb 18, 2023 19:32
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Bar Ran Dun posted:most of the United States production is Canada US Mexico, not to discount China entirely though because that’s also huge percentage. the CPC is definitely aware of that as a problem and so grain specifically is actually mostly self-sufficient as of last year, after the CPC adopted a national grain self-reliance program back in 2020 and then made it a central plank of the 2021-2025 five year plan the rest of food production is not nearly as well resolved, and most of the tonnage is corn and soybeans mostly for animal feed because chinese eat baozi like americans eat hamburgers, sustainability be damned and as much as i'm not too surprised they could pull off grain self-sufficiency (china has plenty of farmland and wheat/rice are extremely efficient crops) routine meat-eating like we have now cannot be sustained (in the face of WW3 or in the face of climate change) no matter how many engineers they throw at the problem atelier morgan has issued a correction as of 21:54 on Feb 18, 2023 |
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Feb 18, 2023 21:43
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Are you telling me the state saw a potential future problem and acted to mitigate it? And it worked? Preposterous, and even if they did, at what cost??
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Feb 18, 2023 22:24
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Slavvy posted:Are you telling me the state saw a potential future problem and acted to mitigate it? And it worked? Preposterous, and even if they did, at what cost?? it was absolutely disgusting, i know i should have NWSed it
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Feb 18, 2023 22:25
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Slavvy posted:Are you telling me the state saw a potential future problem and acted to mitigate it? And it worked? Preposterous, and even if they did, at what cost?? a bunch of the old party guys were industrial engineers at one point, systems guys. I remember seeing an infographic on it god that’s probably been over at-least decade ago. The article was along the lines of they’re going to overtake us in STEM, though it might have been written before that acronym was popularized.
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Feb 18, 2023 22:44
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Bar Ran Dun posted:most of the United States production is Canada US Mexico, not to discount China entirely though because that’s also huge percentage. https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/imports-of-manufactured-goods code:Cerebral Bore posted:the submarine has, in fact, been invented China generally prefers shorter ranged subs, they have 9 nuclear powered attack subs, 3 of which are in reserve.
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Feb 18, 2023 23:17
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E Depois do Adeus posted:Not caught up but thanks to this thread im going to enlist in the space force Post/avatar combo
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Feb 18, 2023 23:23
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