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My friends and I played this pretty regularly throughout the play test and had a lot of fun. Lots to like and the extract-shooter-turned-dungeon-crawler is a fun take on the genre. We had nights that went very well and nights that went poorly, but had a good time either way. The biggest nitpicky consensus we came to that would prevent us from buying it is how they implement the circle and swarm mechanic combined with the escape portals. It was endlessly frustrating to cleave through other parties, resurrect buddies, get solid loot, but then not find enough portals at the end. I get that it's intentional, but it isn't fun and really sours a good run when you have to draw straws to see who stays behind. Most every other extraction game I've tried has a satisfying exit that can be challenging while still feeling like we have always have a chance. CoD's DMZ mode feels good because it's tense, other players can and will interfere, but I know that I will have a guaranteed chance to get out at the end. If I gently caress it up, that's on me.
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Feb 17, 2023 19:07
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Yea, I think the extraction system needs a tweaking, maybe not simply solved by "more portals". Originally, portals spawned like crazy and you had the opposite problem, of not finding other players because they extracted extremely quick. I'm not quite sure how they solve it, but they gotta find a good middle ground that allows people to escape consistently, but not allow a quick escape. Looting just a few things and dipping out without a conflict would become very common with how ratty a game like this can be. Portals are a good idea and safer than doing something like set extracts, as other extraction games do, because if you have consistent extracts you'll wind up with not only campers, but some of those extracts being outside the safe area. They should probably try something like a found in raid craftable extract, something like you spawning the portal if you collect enough of a few certain resources. Maybe it involves killing some kind of monster like the lich, the skeleton knight, maybe even one of the bosses, or maybe it just involves getting like 10 of a resource that every monster drops. Maybe you do 10 of the resources is a single player portal, a boss drops a 3 person portal.
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Feb 17, 2023 19:22
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I think 90% of the portal issues are caused by portals not spawning on the floor you're on, which is problematic when the late game map is often cut up into weird shapes by the circle so you can't access stairs or whatever. They just need to adjust the weighting on the portal randomizer a bit to account for where the players actually are, ie only randomize them on the "right" floor(s) for the current player layout.
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Feb 17, 2023 19:39
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Yea, that's a good idea too. Make sure portals spawn within X distance of a player, any player.
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Feb 17, 2023 19:41
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Another idea my group bandied about was having the portals be good for three people, but they take awhile to appear once summoned and also creating a lot of noise and visual effects that can draw the attention of other players. Maybe even letting other players see that portal on their mini map. Hell, maybe even spawn a couple enemies along with it. It could make each extraction be a fight and definitely more tense as you know other players can see it. Anything to prevent having your party turn into an "every man for themselves" portal race at the end.
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Feb 17, 2023 20:26
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The portals are 100% fine. There is supposed to be some amount of scarcity. They had too many portals in the first play test, including triple blue portals and now they’re gone for a reason. A lot of things they do is to decrease ratting, they don’t want you to come in with 30 red pots and outheal the circle and loot for 25 minutes. Their intentions are very clear if you look at the changes made between play tests.
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Feb 17, 2023 23:16
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I think the portals are fine and only really lovely when the circle is around hallways or you're in an area with multiple floors but the way DMZ does extraction is way better and I hope someone who rips this off does some version of it.
Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Feb 17, 2023 |
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Feb 17, 2023 23:34
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I'm withdrawing this game bad, and I wasn't even very good at it
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Feb 17, 2023 23:37
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Groovelord Neato posted:I think the portals are fine and only really lovely when the circle is around hallways or you're in an area with multiple floors but the way DMZ does extraction is way better and I hope someone who rips this off does some version of it. Static extractions are really lovely, just look at Tarkov. There are people who's gameplay loop is solely camping extractions. Obviously, some classes would be better at it than others, ie ranged. Imagine rangers or wizards getting to a portal room or whatever early, shutting off all of the lights and hopping up to an area that's hard to see but easy to shoot or fireball down from. You have to remember in this type of game, people will always flock to playing as the lowest common denominator. Also, there is a static extract in goblin caves.
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Feb 17, 2023 23:49
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the more this game is like tarkov the less I will play it
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Feb 17, 2023 23:53
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I think portals are fine. As it is now sometimes your only option is to take a red portal, which I think is kind of neat; it's safer (from a PvP standpoint) to take a red portal because people generally avoid them, but obviously the PvE part of Hell is much harsher. Right now you are sometimes forced to take a red portal rather than deal with a nasty teamfight or a narrowing circle, and I think that's a neat choice to have to make. It is a bit stupid because it's a team game right up until it isn't, but it's pretty easy to drop stuff on the ground in a pinch, and the time you take doing that makes using the portal tense, which I think is again the point.
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Feb 17, 2023 23:59
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Every map should have 2 static extraction points. These should be on opposite sides of the map and final safezones should be weighted to not overlap them. There is a legitimate strategy in skulking around the outside of safe zones picking off stragglers and random mobs all match before diving through the curse zone to a guaranteed extract spot to avoid a gank squad camping hte last portal out. This is speaking mainly in terms of the solo queue. If these static escapes are in curse zones long enough it's highly unlikely that someone will camp there all game just to gank someone leaving at the last minute, and having more than one of them per map means it's even less likely for a ganker to pick the right one, if someone even ends up using them. It also directly rewards gaining knowledge and familiarity with the map.
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Feb 18, 2023 00:01
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VulgarandStupid posted:Static extractions are really lovely, just look at Tarkov. There are people who's gameplay loop is solely camping extractions. Obviously, some classes would be better at it than others, ie ranged. Imagine rangers or wizards getting to a portal room or whatever early, shutting off all of the lights and hopping up to an area that's hard to see but easy to shoot or fireball down from. You have to remember in this type of game, people will always flock to playing as the lowest common denominator. Never played Tarkov but I like DMZ having multiple so you can strategize which one will probably be best to avoid other players. I'm not envisioning an exact clone of this game when I say someone else iterates and I'm mostly fine with how portals work (again apart from a team getting hosed if the last circle isn't around a large-ish room).
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Feb 18, 2023 00:02
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I like the idea of making the choice to send someone out when you find an early blue portal at the cost of losing a team member and making your group more vulnerable
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Feb 18, 2023 00:33
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The only solo queue that matters is soloing as a rogue in the 3 man dungeon. Go in with stock gear or at most a gray rapier and cause as much chaos as you can. Escaping can happen by accident sometimes but your goal is to stab wizards in the back of the head while their friends are busy, throw poison bleed daggers at barbarians then disappear, and in general just gently caress up everything for everyone else until they kill you.
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Feb 18, 2023 01:25
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I think there should be team extracts. Multiple single player extracts, a few two person extracts, and one three person extract. If you join as a two person group, you can only take a two person exits or the three person extract, even if a teammate has died. If you join as a three person group, you can only take the three person exit, even if teammates have died. Single players should be able to take any exit.
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Feb 18, 2023 02:15
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id be into the 3 person exit be marked but not the single exits
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Feb 18, 2023 02:38
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They used to have three person exits back in September but got rid of them as to encourage/doom people taking the red portals into the inferno dungeon.
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Feb 18, 2023 02:54
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i always wanted to take the red portal but my teams never did so oh well
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Feb 18, 2023 02:56
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search engine posted:throw poison bleed daggers at barbarians then disappear
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Feb 18, 2023 04:09
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I'm gonna be sad as hell when the playerbase finally learns about the goblin cave stairway exit. I had an extraction streak of like 17 or so games in a row in goblin caves over a couple of nights, with quite a decent bit of pvp too, and all because I didn't have to rely on searching for a portal to get out. Half the games I would get in a nasty pvp fight, either through getting ganked or trying to gank someone who was way better than me, and I just sprint away deep into the zone to camp the staircase. With second wind and the guaranteed health shrine in the adjacent room plus whatever leftover meds I had, I never had a problem lasting until the final circle when the portcullis finally opened. I only had two games this playtest (and I played a lot of games) where another player used the stairway before I could. You can hear the stairway collapse from a good distance, I learned to keep my ears open for the sound of the portcullis and the stairs collapsing, but nobody ever used it outside a couple of games, so I basically had my own personal extract portal for the entire playtest. It needs work, but I like the portal system, but I think it's also really cool to have alternate extraction methods like the staircase. It'd be a bit harder to implement in forgotten castle since it's a single person escape portal for a full group, but I imagine you could gate a multiple person exit behind a boss to have something similar without it being too busted.
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Feb 18, 2023 04:48
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sushibandit posted:Wait, are you saying the rogue skills/passives apply to thrown weapons too? Holy poo poo.
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Feb 18, 2023 04:59
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IronicDongz posted:akaik they do not. poison at least doesn't. I believe that the bleed and weakpoint strike abilities do.
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Feb 18, 2023 05:07
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tweet my meat posted:I'm gonna be sad as hell when the playerbase finally learns about the goblin cave stairway exit. I had an extraction streak of like 17 or so games in a row in goblin caves over a couple of nights, with quite a decent bit of pvp too, and all because I didn't have to rely on searching for a portal to get out. Half the games I would get in a nasty pvp fight, either through getting ganked or trying to gank someone who was way better than me, and I just sprint away deep into the zone to camp the staircase. With second wind and the guaranteed health shrine in the adjacent room plus whatever leftover meds I had, I never had a problem lasting until the final circle when the portcullis finally opened. I only had two games this playtest (and I played a lot of games) where another player used the stairway before I could. You can hear the stairway collapse from a good distance, I learned to keep my ears open for the sound of the portcullis and the stairs collapsing, but nobody ever used it outside a couple of games, so I basically had my own personal extract portal for the entire playtest. Wait what? Stairway exit?!
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Feb 18, 2023 05:53
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At the center of the east side of the map, across from a small chamber with 2 archers and a shaman and a chest, there's an iron gate tha raises to provide access to a static "exit portal" during the next-to-last safe circle phase. It's got a staircase icon on the minimap. If you have ever heard what sounded like a bunch of rocks crashing during the end phase of goblin caves, it was someone taking that exit because it plays a cave-in animation.
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Feb 18, 2023 06:15
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sushibandit posted:At the center of the east side of the map, across from a small chamber with 2 archers and a shaman and a chest, there's an iron gate tha raises to provide access to a static "exit portal" during the next-to-last safe circle phase. It's got a staircase icon on the minimap. If you have ever heard what sounded like a bunch of rocks crashing during the end phase of goblin caves, it was someone taking that exit because it plays a cave-in animation. I found that by complete accident once. And never looked for it again.
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Feb 18, 2023 08:42
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Pretty sure the throwing knife just causes bleed.
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Feb 18, 2023 11:10
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Do the people saying that the portal system is fine as is just never play with friends? Like only solo or maybe with random people? Cause it's definitely not fun to have a successful run end with essentially a rock-paper-scissors to see who gets to extract when you only find one or two portals left. I'd say roughly half of the matches where all three people in my group made it to the portal phase ended with at least one person having to get left behind, dumping their inventory on the ground for the others to take. And it was a bummer each time.
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Feb 18, 2023 15:03
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the key to having plenty of portals is to butcher the entire lobby. I'm not even really kidding about that either. personally I would change nothing about the portal system. I don't think blues are really that scarce and after you've got a little bit of a bank, not extracting isn't a big deal when you can just drop your weapon and your jewelry to a team mate, or just hop in a red portal where the chances of a good player making it out are pretty high unless all the portals spawn in a boss room or they get ganked
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Feb 18, 2023 15:31
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Herstory Begins Now posted:the key to having plenty of portals is to butcher the entire lobby. I'm not even really kidding about that either. The only times the portals get really annoying is in the hallways with multiple floors or the trap maze but you are correct that you should be as aggressive as possible to knock out anybody who could be taking your portals later on.
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Feb 18, 2023 15:40
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There's only on red portal, right? I honestly feel like, if anything, that's the portal we need more of.
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Feb 18, 2023 16:12
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GlyphGryph posted:There's only on red portal, right? I honestly feel like, if anything, that's the portal we need more of. Nah there are a bunch usually.
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Feb 18, 2023 16:28
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yall gotta murder more
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Feb 18, 2023 16:29
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DyneAvenger posted:Do the people saying that the portal system is fine as is just never play with friends? Like only solo or maybe with random people?
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Feb 18, 2023 17:48
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Herstory Begins Now posted:the key to having plenty of portals is to butcher the entire lobby. I'm not even really kidding about that either.
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Feb 18, 2023 18:05
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Killing people is the superior way to loot anyway.
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Feb 18, 2023 21:35
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I dunno how many of you actually got to do a lot of HR or got into really sweaty HR lobbies but my biggest concern by far with this game is the balance. The community keeps talking about barb or hasted barb, but wizard itself and ranger really were the outliers to me in sweaty lobbies. You just cannot loving get near them without taking massive chunks of damage, so unless you're playing like 90-95% armor fighter with 2 pocket clerics, you can't actually push into ranged teams. I feel like if they don't massively tone down all the flat dmg gear, the game will eventually just devolve into nothing but rangers and wizards. I really think they need to make a nerf to flat dmg and weapon dmg so it only rolls on jewelry and weapons, and even then only like 1 per ring, 2 on neck, and maybe current range for 2h and like 2-3 on 1h/offhand. Wizard meditate itself probably needs like 2-3x as long of a cooldown and rangers need to be forced to bring in arrows/quivers. The current damage situation is honestly so dumb, you go from requiring like 6-8 stabs on zombies as a rogue to be able to 1-2 shot them in just blues and greens if they all have +dmg mods on them. Akumos fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Feb 18, 2023 |
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Feb 18, 2023 21:42
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Fighters don't do quite as much damage as rangers, but they can use all the ranger weapons and also pack heavy armor plus get baseline ranged protection - how does a ranged fighter team handle a ranger team? It feels like they'd come out at least somewhat favourably.
GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Feb 18, 2023 |
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Feb 18, 2023 21:44
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The problem with rangers vs fighters is that rangers just move faster and have better ranged perks. If the fighter is stacking armor, sure, he takes no dmg, but the ranger can just kite him forever. Armor stacking fighter is extremely slow and vulnerable to wizard, so if you run a ranger/wiz/cleric team, you'll just poo poo on fighters. I basically see no reason to run anything other than wiz/ranger/cleric or x2 ranger x1 wiz atm. If you are good at the game, have good gear and map control, nothing can engage on you before they die. So IMO either the entire game needs a massive balance overhaul, or the game needs MMR(kdr + extraction %) and all the giga sweats running those comps can just have fun doing it to each other all day.
Akumos fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Feb 18, 2023 |
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Feb 18, 2023 21:46
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See, I guess I'm not sure how reliably a ranger is going to be kiting a skilled fighter who can shoot back. I agree that a wizard would still gently caress them over, that's why I was just considering the ranger matchup. I didn't get enough high level play to have any idea how that holds up in practice though, and I'm guessing by the next time we can play its gonna be rebalanced anyway.
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Feb 18, 2023 21:49
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