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silvergoose
Mar 18, 2006

IT IS SAID THE TEARS OF THE BWEENIX CAN HEAL ALL WOUNDS




I mean, there's probably room for both race and new pr, but rftg is still top of class for tableau builders.

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PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

Admiralty Flag posted:

Lol, I once talked up TS to a friend, finally convinced him to play it (hadn’t played it myself, just knew the rules), figured I could headline the Olympics on turn 2, his headline went off before mine, dropped DEFCON to 2, and forced DEFCON suicide on me. I imagine your defeat was similar.

It’s not a hard game to play, especially if someone’s doing the math for you. But to play it well…

We called it on time barely into turn two with her dominating Europe and ME for a final score of USA+16. Besides not really knowing what I'm doing, I got terrible coup rolls and she blanked the headline I was planning to use to fix ME.

The good news is that she has a healthy attitude toward losing, she was gracious when she lost to her little brother at Go yesterday. Brother is still a work in progress on that front.

Arzaac
Jan 2, 2020


Admiralty Flag posted:

I was in the swamps of Reddit earlier, saw this news, and read some reference to people review bombing Frosthaven (and thus potentially Gloomhaven) because it's woke?

I've played like five scenarios of JotL and that's been it for me in the *Haven world, so I have no idea as to the truth of the claim.

I was underimpressed with JotL, at least the little I played, so I'm extending that to GH, and I am happy to see one of my favorite games take the top spot...which it has lost already, as of about half an hour ago when I looked at BGG rankings. Figures, it would come into the spotlight when it was out of print. Maybe this'll spur Roxley into a quick print run.

At the very least I know people were getting salty at this kickstarter post pre-release. Which is, imo, wild when he's basically just saying "I'm gonna do my best to make my game not racist".

I haven't played Frosthaven itself and it's probably similar levels of people getting bent out of shape for silly reasons.

CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant

armorer posted:

Looking at this #1 business made me realize that a new Puerto Rico was released that changes the setting to be less problematic. Somehow I missed that it was in the works.

My Google-fu is weak. What game is this?

silvergoose
Mar 18, 2006

IT IS SAID THE TEARS OF THE BWEENIX CAN HEAL ALL WOUNDS




Puerto Rico 1897 I think it is?

https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/367272/puerto-rico-1897

armorer
Aug 6, 2012

I like metal.
Yep, that one!

Phelddagrif
Jan 28, 2009

Before I do anything, I think, well what hasn't been seen. Sometimes, that turns out to be something ghastly and not fit for society. And sometimes that inspiration becomes something that's really worthwhile.
The gameplay in 1897 is exactly the same as in Puerto Rico (at least, the base game is - there's four expansions in the box, including the new buildings and nobles). They've just renamed a bunch of components, such as changing indigo to fruit, and the colony ship to the charter office.

There's some production issues with it - to wit, there's too many fruit tiles and not enough coffee, the buildings don't have their abilities printed on them so you have to refer to the rulebook, and the game end wording is unclear.

Still, it seems like a decent enough revision if you enjoy the gameplay but hate the theme.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Magnetic North posted:

If anyone's curious, apparrently only seven other games have ever been ranked #1. Most of them are notable classics and mega hits. Also, Paths of Glory is on there which I don't think I'd ever heard of.

It's the undisputed king of map-and-counter wargames, still #3 on the War chart more than 20 years later behind only Twilight Struggle - which isn't really a wargame IMO - and War of the Ring. It hit #1 because grogs were a much larger and more vocal part of BGG's original user base and it has the record for the game which was #1 for the shortest span.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Arzaac posted:

At the very least I know people were getting salty at this kickstarter post pre-release. Which is, imo, wild when he's basically just saying "I'm gonna do my best to make my game not racist".

I haven't played Frosthaven itself and it's probably similar levels of people getting bent out of shape for silly reasons.

Yeah it's that, plus maybe some people annoyed that they cut ties with Broken Token.

CitizenKeen
Nov 13, 2003

easygoing pedant
So my FLGS has Brass Birmingham. I don't see it discussed here much. Anyone want to sell me on it?

PRADA SLUT
Mar 14, 2006

Inexperienced,
heartless,
but even so
I’ll sell you on it by saying I’d rather play Ticket To Ride

Admiralty Flag
Jun 7, 2007

to ride eternal, shiny and chrome

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2022

CitizenKeen posted:

So my FLGS has Brass Birmingham. I don't see it discussed here much. Anyone want to sell me on it?

B:B is a brain-burning euro that plays 2-4 (and differently at each number). It's a relatively complex but highly rewarding game. I'd recommend it without hesitation except you need to know you'll have people to play it with. What sort of games does your usual group play?

interrodactyl
Nov 8, 2011

you have no dignity

CitizenKeen posted:

So my FLGS has Brass Birmingham. I don't see it discussed here much. Anyone want to sell me on it?

Did you know it's the #1 rated game on BGG?

Admiralty Flag
Jun 7, 2007

to ride eternal, shiny and chrome

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2022

Just got back from a game of Battlestar Galactica, first time I've played in a year or so. Six of us, ranging from newish ( but with experience from Unfathomable) to old hands; one was a Cylon leader so we didn't have to mess with a Mutineer.

I was the Admiral. First jump comes up and I get a 3 and a 1. No obvious Cylons yet. Starting to get kicked around a little but we manage another jump. I pull a 2 & a 3. Against my better meta gaming mind, I play the 3. Sure enough, I get a Cylon card during the sleeper phase while we're at 6.

Play proceeds. I've had my suspicions about the President, so when she pulls an Admiral decides: do something else or Admiral takes Presidency, I grab it to give her cover and start twirling my moustache, knowing that it'll be nigh-impossible to brig me before my turn. Sure enough, I get to my turn, draw my two purples, neither giving +2 to a roll (if I had gotten one, I would have nuked two civilian ships and a Mark VII fighter, especially as I was Helo and had the reroll), so I revealed and threw the next human in the brig before loving off to the resurrection ship.

The President is playing things very close to the vest but is generating lots of suspicion. I'm waiting for her to reveal. Next jump comes, and Starbuck (now Admiral and CAG) pulls a 2 just as two centurions get on board. But there's no way even with my help that the centurions can get to the end zone before the jump track gets to -3 (humans had enough pop to absorb it).

We run out of time, call it in favor of the humans (and Cylon Leader, who would have achieved his two human goals), and I flip over the final loyalty card (as we built it using the Exodus rule). Sure enough, the other YAAC card is staring back at me.

Still, not a bad way to spend an afternoon.

Ubik_Lives
Nov 16, 2012
I love the player interactions in Brass. It's not a solitaire economic euro where you make your own little engine and run it, but players are constantly creating opportunities for each other, and also cutting each other off. Someone puts down a coal mine, and everyone looks at how they can use it. I really enjoy just watching the board evolve and constantly weighing up short term vs long term payoffs.

What I don't love about Brass is teaching it. If someone told me that Brass was an April Fools joke by Martin Wallace parodying himself by splitting everything into two and making the two parts slightly different to each other, I'd buy it. On your turn you take two actions, except for the first turn, where you only take one. You play a card from your hand, but only the build industry action cares about what is on it. To build industry, you spend either a location card, which lets you build anything at that location (that it allows), or an industry card, which lets you build that industry but it has to connect to your existing network. Each player can only have one industry per town, except for the second half of the game, where it's unrestricted. To build you spend coal and iron. Iron represents a once off building cost, where transportation costs don't represent a significant portion of the price of the item, so you tell Terry to grab a wheelbarrow and get it from anywhere on the map. Coal represents a contract for continuous supply of a cheap commodity, so you need both a transportation link to the coal source, and you must always choose the closest source (Coal: Closest Connected). And so on. I do really like the game, but it does take a while for people to internalise everything.

Ojetor
Aug 4, 2010

Return of the Sensei

Doctor Spaceman posted:

Yeah it's that, plus maybe some people annoyed that they cut ties with Broken Token.

He also shouted out BLM after the George Floyd murder, that KS update had some salty commenters.

Admiralty Flag
Jun 7, 2007

to ride eternal, shiny and chrome

THUNDERDOME LOSER 2022

Ubik_Lives posted:

I love the player interactions in Brass. It's not a solitaire economic euro where you make your own little engine and run it, but players are constantly creating opportunities for each other, and also cutting each other off. Someone puts down a coal mine, and everyone looks at how they can use it. I really enjoy just watching the board evolve and constantly weighing up short term vs long term payoffs.

What I don't love about Brass is teaching it. If someone told me that Brass was an April Fools joke by Martin Wallace parodying himself by splitting everything into two and making the two parts slightly different to each other, I'd buy it. On your turn you take two actions, except for the first turn, where you only take one. You play a card from your hand, but only the build industry action cares about what is on it. To build industry, you spend either a location card, which lets you build anything at that location (that it allows), or an industry card, which lets you build that industry but it has to connect to your existing network. Each player can only have one industry per town, except for the second half of the game, where it's unrestricted. To build you spend coal and iron. Iron represents a once off building cost, where transportation costs don't represent a significant portion of the price of the item, so you tell Terry to grab a wheelbarrow and get it from anywhere on the map. Coal represents a contract for continuous supply of a cheap commodity, so you need both a transportation link to the coal source, and you must always choose the closest source (Coal: Closest Connected). And so on. I do really like the game, but it does take a while for people to internalise everything.
This is a really good description on both sides. When you build an early brewery in the Rail era (unless it's something like an early Uttoxeter one that's not connected), you have to think about who's going to use that second barrel after you use the first for your double rail action. And leaving level 2 coal mines around the map at the end of the Canal era to jump start your (and others') rails, knowing they'll be flipped soon to pay off your loans, is often good strategy.

I'm slightly more sanguine about teaches than you, but that's because I set up a sample tableau on the map before demonstrating the build action and showing why things will and won't work. And once you teach the build action, the rest is easy. I won't argue that it takes time and effort and experience to internalize the rules of the game as well as optimal strategies (loan before flips, not the other way around).

BGG has a couple of good teaching guides that make things simpler.

Carillon
May 9, 2014






Magnetic North posted:

If anyone's curious, apparrently only seven other games have ever been ranked #1. Most of them are notable classics and mega hits. Also, Paths of Glory is on there which I don't think I'd ever heard of.

It's one of my favorite games, and probably in my top 5 of plays. It's really well balanced, lots of decisions and overall a great example of card driven game play. I think it is worth checking out if you can find someone else to play with you.

Blamestorm
Aug 14, 2004

We LOL at death! Watch us LOL. Love the LOL.
Compared with most board games - not war games - Paths of Glory is difficult to learn and takes a long while to play. It is fantastic though. It’s worth the effort but also just realistically is going to be a hard game to get played, and it really takes at least one full play to fully understand the rules. The basics aren’t hard but there are lots of special rules and exceptions (again - not necessarily many compared with many war games, but you can’t just do a “teach” to someone else, they probably have to read the rules too as there’s just too much detail).

While twilight struggle is a happy medium and fantastic game between PoG and most strategic boardgames I think one really under appreciated older game which is another route to games like PoG, Successors etc is Washingtons War. It has a go-like political mechanic which is great and plays very fast relative to most other CDGs. It has some of the army and units stuff that Twilight Struggle lacks if you want that kind of thing. And while Hannibal / Sword of Rome / Successors are probably it’s nearest relatives I think it’s probably a better, cleaner design than any of those - you can teach and play it well within a couple of hours rather than it be an all day/night affair which the others can turn into at least for the first play. So I do recommend checking it out if you get the chance and are interested in a CDG with more war than TS.

Otherwise TS should be first step before considering whether you would like Paths of Glory, IMO. I wish there were more games like PoG - I really like that strategic level CDG with spaces rather than hexes, but I feel deeply uncomfortable about WW2 and later conflicts where some of the other good ones sit (basically I hate asking anyone to be the Nazis, or trying to win as the Nazis). Twilight struggle is a different story as it’s high level, strategic and you’re really playing something more politically themed, with a lot of fun mechanics to reflect why leaders made the decisions they did in the Cold War.

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

Admiralty Flag posted:

We run out of time, call it in favor of the humans (and Cylon Leader, who would have achieved his two human goals), and I flip over the final loyalty card (as we built it using the Exodus rule). Sure enough, the other YAAC card is staring back at me.

Still, not a bad way to spend an afternoon.

BSG is a great game but ugh I hate the Exodus ruleset, especially that part. "Burn Exodus" was a catchphrase among goon BSG players for a reason. I'm glad you had fun though!

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story
Okay, I have played (and lost!) my first game of Minotaur. I'm not like, a professional review guy, and my board game experience is extremely limited so I can't really compare it to other games or judge it based on some factors other people might, and I'll give my thoughts and experiences as best I can. I took some pictures too! Hopefully they will help people understand things better than my words. My phone camera does kind of suck though and not the best quality, but it's all I got. So here we go.

First some unboxing pics.



There's eight different classes to play as, each with different powers, although all of them share three abilities: Disarm (removes traps), Dispel (removes magic barriers), and Strength (removes physical barriers), although some classes are better at things than others. For example as you can see with the Wizard, he gets two dice for Disarm, two dice +1 for Dispel, but only one die for Strength. The Warrior uses two dice +1 for Strength, but has one die -1 for Dispel and one die for Disarm. Each card also has the movement speed of the character on them. I'm not sure why they listed health because everyone gets 20. Just seems weird.

If you're playing solo, you play two characters. One extremely important thing to note, which I failed to take into account and contributed greatly to my loss, is only three characters are capable of healing: the Monk, Warlock and Cleric. The Cleric is the best healer, getting two dice to roll, having a range of one square, and heals every ally on the square targeted. The Monk gets a single target heal that's one die, with a bonus +1 for every ally on the square. The Warlock's healing is also single target, but works weird. The Warlock has an attack called Drain (two dice -2) that allows them to take the monster token if it defeats the monster, with no limit on how many tokens they can take. When they use the Consume attack, they discard all tokens they've collected, and roll that many dice to heal the target ally. So while they can potentially heal more than the Cleric, it is still only single target and the attack can't work without having tokens. You definitely want at least one of the Cleric or Monk if you're playing solo.

The bottom card is for the Minotaur and keeps track of how much health it has as well as how many completed medallions you have. You need to complete all three medallions to win the game, and each completed medallion also makes the minotaur stronger. Medallions are broken into two halves, one red and one blue.



Three kinds of cards. The top one is an attack card, drawn whenever you attack, a monster attacks, you're trying to break a barrier or a trap is triggered. If you're the one taking an action, you take the value of your roll and compare it to the number on this card. If it's greater than or equal to the number for that monster/trap/barrier, it is defeated/disarmed/destroyed (or loses 1 HP if it's the minotaur). If it is less than, you either take the difference in damage between your roll and the number in damage (so if I rolled a 4 against the minotaur and drew that card, I'd take 2 damage). Traps deal their full damage if you fail to disarm them. Barriers turn into a broken barrier if you fail to destroy them, a broken barrier can be destroyed with no roll using a basic action. Harpies are special and don't do anything if your attack fails against them. When monsters attack, you draw a card and they deal the number on the card in damage to you. You don't get any sort of defend action, which kinda hurts.

The middle cards are labyrinth cards which you use to build the labyrinth. If you're playing solo or with two people, you'll build the labyrinth using a 3x3 grid. If you're playing with three or four people, the labyrinth is a 3x5 grid instead.

The bottom card is for spawning encounters and the minotaur, more on that later.

The back of the box says there's 48 cards, but I grabbed a box of Standard size Arcane Tinmen and had six cards left unsleeved. So you'll actually need 54 sleeves to fully sleeve this game, no idea how they somehow missed six cards in their count. The character cards/minotaur are fairly large, dunno the dimensions but they're bigger than Oversize. You don't have to shuffle them though so personally I feel sleeves aren't really necessary.



Punching out cardboard is very satisfying to me, I dunno if it's just me. You can't see it on any of the ones I have visible, but some of the monster and barrier tokens have a black vertical stripe running down the background. The black striped tokens are only for the 3-4 player version, they're not used in solo or two player, since the grid is smaller. In addition to these tokens, there's also a heart token (for keeping track of minotaur HP) and a white diamond token with a crosshair that's only used if you're playing the Ranger, to mark a creature as targeted.

Small complaint about the life wheels: the plastic things that go in the middle of them to construct them leave too much room in my opinion, they don't fit tightly. So the wheels spin a little too freely and if jostled the counter can move too much. I prefer a much more snug fit that doesn't allow for the wheel to accidentally get moved, so that's a little annoying.



The back of the manual has a short and simple guide to how turns go in this game. Should help explain some things I didn't explain because I don't want this review to be too long.



This is a photo of the manual to explain what secret passages are, I normally wouldn't have posted this but there is a thread on Board Game Geek (I assume from one of the devs) that made a note about an error in the manual on this page. The error is that the top right card is supposed to be a four-way intersection, since as it's printed, the minotaur would be between cards on its second move action rather than being able to reach the wizard.



The back of every character card has a quick reference guide for how monsters act and what items do (and if they require an action to use). This explains the harpy's deal, which is that it steals items. Monsters move towards the nearest character on their turn, harpies move towards the nearest item (items held by characters count for this). When the harpy reaches a square with an item, it automatically steals the item (again, even if it's held by a character). It can only steal one item at a time, and once it has one, it starts moving for the nearest exit (an exit being a tile that leads off the grid, or a staircase). If it succeeds in escaping, the item it held is put in the discard pile. This is especially nasty if the item is a medallion half, because that means you can't possibly win the game until the token bag is empty and the discard pile is placed back into it.



I don't have a free table at the moment due to some rearrangement of stuff, so I set up on my bed. Anyway this was my start setup for my game. I purposely placed one of the cards vertically to show that yes, cards can be vertical. You put the Start tile in the center and draw 8 cards to put around it (for the solo/2 player game, you draw 14 cards for the 3-4 player game). Then you choose how you want to arrange the tiles, with one rule: you must connect as many corridors as possible. So for example, the middle left card, I would not be allowed to place it in any other orientation than how it currently is, because doing so would cause one corridor to be unconnected. And as the manual said, sometimes no matter how you orient a card, it will result in a dead end, but that's okay, because it's a labyrinth after all.

After setting up, every tile with a skull on it requires an encounter spawn.



So as I said before these cards serve two purposes. One is whenever you place a skull tile, you spawn an encounter and use the right side of the card. You then pull that number of tokens out of the colored bags and place them on that tile. You can place barriers however you like, as long as you don't place them on a dead end. Barriers can also stack, so you could end up with one physical and one magical barrier on an exit, or two of the same kind.

The left side of the card is for whenever you check for the minotaur. You check for the minotaur in two case: one, you immediately check when you're placing new tiles down on the board, either because you're Exploring (moved off the board via a corridor) or have gone down a staircase. Two, you check at the end of a monster phase if either there are no monsters on the board, or if two halves of the same medallion are on the board (medallion halves held by characters count). The card has three columns, corresponding to how many complete medallions you have, to determine the minotaur's HP. So on the left card, if I haven't completed any medallions, it spawns with 2 HP. It'll have 3 if I have one medallion completed, and 6 if I have two. The right card has 0 HP for all three columns, meaning the minotaur doesn't spawn at all on that check. Also, if you complete a medallion and the minotaur is already spawned, you draw a card and immediately give it that much HP. So if the minotaur is at 1 HP and I complete a second medallion and I draw that card on the left, it would now have 6 HP. The minotaur's HP also can only ever go up, not down due to this, so if the minotaur has 5 HP and you drew that left card after completing your first medallion, the minotaur would stay at 5 HP, it wouldn't go down to 3.



Just showing the two characters I played as. I shuffled the class cards and just grabbed two random ones. Again, not really ideal because it meant I had no healing, which was my undoing. You lose if any character goes below 1 HP.

Anyway there's a handful of other rules about how things work but this isn't really meant to be a comprehensive overview of the rules, it's meant to be a review. So I'll get to reviewing. How did I like it? Well...that's kind of hard to answer. It's certainly a neat game, but a couple of things made my first game a little underwhelming and a bit disappointing. It was kinda just RNG with a really weird situation that probably shouldn't pop up, usually, and what I think may fix the problem I had.

So as I explained, when you spawn an encounter you draw from the colored bags. Well it just so happens that due to weird luck, I got two medallion halves that spawned before I even took my first turn. This seems really great at first, because hey, you need the medallions to win the game! They were two different medallion halves but that's not a big deal. So I'm running around, fighting a few monsters, and then I have to Explore and lay down some new tiles. On an encounter spawn, I happen to pull another medallion half. This one of the third medallion. So there's three halves on the board, and I can't combine any of them because they're all from different ones. And this is where the issue arises.

Characters can only hold one item. You can drop an item, but you still can only hold one at a time. Also, whenever you Explore, you discard any tokens on tiles that you discard due to exploring. This meant that I couldn't go down the staircase I had on the grid, because if I did, the medallion half I didn't have would go into the discard pile...and then I'd have to wait until all the tiles of that color were used up before I had a chance to get it again. Also, since you can only hold one item at a time, with me having two halves already, it meant I didn't really care about any items that spawned on the grid, because I needed the medallion halves (and the minotaur can steal medallion halves, so leaving them on the ground is risky). This meant I was doing the board game equivalent of zoning back and forth between areas in a video game for multiple turns in a row. I'd Explore to lay down new tiles. Sometimes there'd be no encounter spawns, meaning it was a wasted exploration. So I'd just Explore in the opposite direction and get rid of those. Even if I spawned an encounter, I'd just go "Oh, no medallion tokens, might as well Explore the other way and get rid of all those" since I didn't care about the items, and didn't need to fight the monsters.

This was compounded by the fact I didn't have a healer, the minotaur will usually spawn on an Exploration, and both Healing Potion items were already in the discard pile because I seriously drew them both on the opening setup and had to discard them to Explore. So I was failing to pull any new medallion halves, while the minotaur kept spawning and usually getting an attack or two off, whittling down my HP which I couldn't restore. And then I got to 0, and that was that.

So as I said, a few things went wrong here. One was I didn't bring a healer. Having a healer meant that I would at least be able to withstand the minotaur's attacks better while I was fishing for a medallion half. Another was just the sheer good/bad luck of getting three medallion halves almost right away, but all three being from different medallions, meaning I couldn't complete one and had to play in a kind of unfun manner to avoid discarding one.

This could be easily solved by just bringing a healer next time, true. And I'm probably extremely unlikely to draw three different medallion halves in the first couple of turns in the game next time as well. Still, I can't help but feel that maybe a house rule might help. If I try again and a similar problem happens again, I might use one for future games. It wouldn't be a big change, it would just basically be that medallion halves don't count as your held item. That would allow characters to keep a medallion half while not making items useless for them, though I'd say they can still only carry one medallion half at a time. I'm hesitant to implement this rule though, again unless a similar situation occurs next time, for the simple fact that I understand that it's probably purposeful to make you choose between leaving a medallion half on the ground for the minotaur to potentially steal so you can keep an item, or giving up your item slot to make sure it's protected.

Anyway, it feels weird to make a judgement call on this game after such a bizarre first play. I'll definitely play again with better character choices and hopefully less weird RNG, and probably better be able to judge how it feels after that. But I hope my overview was helpful to people, and maybe some people can say what they think looks good/bad about it from the pictures I've posted and the rules I've explained!

Bubble-T
Dec 26, 2004

You know, I've got a funny feeling I've seen this all before.

Chainclaw posted:

Mage Knight kind of sucks. I really want to like it, there's a ton of parts I like, but it's got issues that keep it off my table. It's very long setup and teardown, especially compared to a lot of more modern games in the genre. The way you use cards to do everything, including moving, can result in a lot of feel bad moments where you burn good combat cards to just barely move, and you burn good movement cards in combat. In solo this is annoying but not a big deal. In a multiplayer game it can be frustrating when you're stuck with the leftovers of the other players with better draws.

Ojetor posted:

I'm prolly one of the biggest Mage Knight stans around and even I will admit competitive Mage Knight is bad. Skill differentials are extremely punishing, there's zero catch up mechanisms at all, and the exponential power curve means once a player falls behind they will very quickly fall very far behind. All of a sudden all the easy map nodes are cleared, you can't reach anything valuable, and have no hope of clearing any battle without taking a dozen wounds, if you can win a battle at all. Not really a good situation 1 hour into what's likely going to be a 4+ hour game.

Lord help you if you're playing with PvP rules on top. At least Through The Ages has formal rules for conceding, MK just hangs you out to dry.

I've seen people argue that you can just play "friendly" competitive, but in that case just go ahead and play co-op. You can still compare fame counts at the end if you really care that much.
Agreed with the setup/teardown time and that the PvP rules aren't good.

The bolded points are typical of inexperienced players, which does make it hard to get new people in but then it's Mage Knight, not a game you break out at a casual gathering. Mage Knight's movement mechanics in particular are a big part of what makes the game worth learning.

I play a lot of 3 player friendly competitive Mage Knight with my partner and son, it feels very different to co-operative for me. Tactic choice is really important and ensuring you don't just follow another player around the map is a huge part of the game.

Jedit
Dec 10, 2011

Proudly supporting vanilla legends 1994-2014

Ubik_Lives posted:

I love the player interactions in Brass. It's not a solitaire economic euro where you make your own little engine and run it, but players are constantly creating opportunities for each other, and also cutting each other off. Someone puts down a coal mine, and everyone looks at how they can use it. I really enjoy just watching the board evolve and constantly weighing up short term vs long term payoffs.

What I don't love about Brass is teaching it. If someone told me that Brass was an April Fools joke by Martin Wallace parodying himself by splitting everything into two and making the two parts slightly different to each other, I'd buy it. On your turn you take two actions, except for the first turn, where you only take one. You play a card from your hand, but only the build industry action cares about what is on it. To build industry, you spend either a location card, which lets you build anything at that location (that it allows), or an industry card, which lets you build that industry but it has to connect to your existing network. Each player can only have one industry per town, except for the second half of the game, where it's unrestricted. To build you spend coal and iron. Iron represents a once off building cost, where transportation costs don't represent a significant portion of the price of the item, so you tell Terry to grab a wheelbarrow and get it from anywhere on the map. Coal represents a contract for continuous supply of a cheap commodity, so you need both a transportation link to the coal source, and you must always choose the closest source (Coal: Closest Connected). And so on. I do really like the game, but it does take a while for people to internalise everything.

I've never had a problem teaching Brass. You're thinking of it bottom up when it's easier to do it top down. Each action requires discarding any one card. The Build action - which you explain last - requires you to build what or where is on the card you discarded, and you have to build in your network if it was an industry card. When using resources to build or ship, you have the three mnemonics: Closest Connected Coal, Iron Is Independent, Beer's a Bit of Both (your own beer can be used like iron, other player's beer is used like coal).

The thing about Brass is that it's actually two mini-games about building transport networks with accumulated score. The Canal era is best thought of as a protracted setup phase, almost like a draft in which you set up your advantages for the Rail era where the majority of points are scored.

Eraflure
Oct 12, 2012


Twelve by Pies posted:

Punching out cardboard is very satisfying to me, I dunno if it's just me.

ONE OF US

PRADA SLUT
Mar 14, 2006

Inexperienced,
heartless,
but even so
ngl, would rather have games come pre-punched and ready to play. Unwrapping and punching and prepping poo poo sucks

The Eyes Have It
Feb 10, 2008

Third Eye Sees All
...snookums
I think describing Brass:Birmingham as a game where players are competing, but also at the same time constantly creating opportunities for each other (or locking them out) is a good way to sum up its main attraction. If that sounds like your jam, you'll like it.

For example, when you create coal mines or ironworks or breweries, they hit the board fully stocked but only score once they empty out. So someone using "your" stuff is good! Well, as long as you weren't banking on using it yourself first and never get a chance to, anyway. That's still better than building something that never gets used and just sits on the board like a fat toad (because it only scores if it empties.)

Jewmanji
Dec 28, 2003

PRADA SLUT posted:

ngl, would rather have games come pre-punched and ready to play. Unwrapping and punching and prepping poo poo sucks

Real-life Grinch here.

Infinitum
Jul 30, 2004


Honestly all Roxley Games are pretty great.

I rate Steampunk Rally Fusion and Radlands a lot.
Both KS games were incredible value for money, arrived before the estimate, and production quality is top notch.

Dr Kool-AIDS
Mar 26, 2004

PRADA SLUT posted:

ngl, would rather have games come pre-punched and ready to play. Unwrapping and punching and prepping poo poo sucks

I went to a board game night with some friends one time where the host said his favorite part of board gaming was unboxing it and everything, so I thought it would be safe to play switch while he and my brother worked on punching a new game, but then he got mad at me for not helping. I thought he enjoyed it!

Just so I don't sound like an antisocial weirdo, other people were playing switch too.

Infinitum
Jul 30, 2004


If you went to a game night, the game wasn't punched already by the host, you weren't there to help punch it out, and you were later going to be playing that game - gently caress that guy

PRADA SLUT
Mar 14, 2006

Inexperienced,
heartless,
but even so

Infinitum posted:

If you went to a game night, the game wasn't punched already by the host, you weren't there to help punch it out, and you were later going to be playing that game - gently caress that guy

just punch the host

Dr. Video Games 0069
Jan 1, 2006

nice dolphin, nigga
Of the tens of thousands of cardboard tokens I have punched out, I have slightly torn the art on perhaps 3. Yet I have never punched a token without fear of tearing it.

El Fideo
Jun 10, 2016

I trusted a rhino and deserve all that came to me


Infinitum posted:

Honestly all Roxley Games are pretty great.

I rate Steampunk Rally Fusion and Radlands a lot.
Both KS games were incredible value for money, arrived before the estimate, and production quality is top notch.

The production samples coming back for Skyrise look amazing, I'm really looking forward to that one.

Infinitum
Jul 30, 2004


Watching the latest NRB Blood on the Clocktower game and it's definitely a game I would play, and I would love, but if you don't have a regular crew that enjoys werewolf/mafia and is comfortable with that terminology & mindthink it really would be a bit of dust collector.
The NRB crew make it look effortless in being able to descern which roles are in play based off different game state interactions, which is something a non-regular crew filled with newbies wouldn't be able to grok out.

I would def be happy in a semi permanent story teller position, but I'm just not sure if it's a game I need need for my collection atm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSxsdMGy4XA

El Fideo posted:

The production samples coming back for Skyrise look amazing, I'm really looking forward to that one.

I did look at it, and in the end it was very hard to justify personally with Chinatown already in my collection - so I passed on it
Really does look like a lot of fun tho!

Production value is top notch as always, but the superfluous raised plastic islands seems wasteful to me.

fr0id
Jul 27, 2016

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!

PRADA SLUT posted:

ngl, would rather have games come pre-punched and ready to play. Unwrapping and punching and prepping poo poo sucks

I know they failed to ban you for liking Kingdom Death but I really think you should be thread banned for this opinion.

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

by Fluffdaddy
I swear punching out Gloomhaven left me dehydrated.

Serotoning
Sep 14, 2010

D&D: HASBARA SQUAD
HANG 'EM HIGH


We're fighting human animals and we act accordingly

Dr. Video Games 0069 posted:

Of the tens of thousands of cardboard tokens I have punched out, I have slightly torn the art on perhaps 3. Yet I have never punched a token without fear of tearing it.

The key is punching in the same direction as the cardboard was stamped i.e. from cut side to uncut side and keeping even pressure across the entire chit.

an actual dog
Nov 18, 2014

Infinitum posted:

Watching the latest NRB Blood on the Clocktower game and it's definitely a game I would play, and I would love, but if you don't have a regular crew that enjoys werewolf/mafia and is comfortable with that terminology & mindthink it really would be a bit of dust collector.
The NRB crew make it look effortless in being able to descern which roles are in play based off different game state interactions, which is something a non-regular crew filled with newbies wouldn't be able to grok out.

I would def be happy in a semi permanent story teller position, but I'm just not sure if it's a game I need need for my collection atm.

I first played BotC at a game night with a guy who also wasn't sure if he was going to actually play it a ton, so he printed out a bunch of stuff and we had to look at the roles on our phones, very jank stuff. And despite all that, it ruled!

He eventually went in on the big boy, which is worth it. It makes more complicated scripts work lol. But for Trouble Brewing you can start without it.

It's worth noting that game night group was just people who showed up. Not everyone liked it as much as I did, but it works with more than just people who are experienced with this kind of game. Like it's not like everyone on NRB knows what they're doing, lol.

So yeah, it's definitely not a game that everyone needs, but it might be worth a second look.

fr0id
Jul 27, 2016

Goodness no, now that wouldn't do at all!

Podima posted:

I swear punching out Gloomhaven left me dehydrated.

Stop punching your board games one-handed

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Podima
Nov 4, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

fr0id posted:

Stop punching your board games one-handed

Nah that's reserved for the train games

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