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Der Kyhe posted:...And this does not include the episodes which are just remakes of older episodes from prior series such as S1E20 Oasis My favourite story about this was when someone (I think it was Scott Bakula) was talking to guest star Rene Auberjonois about how he liked the script, and Auberjonois said ‘yeah, it was really good when I did it for DS9 10 years ago’
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Feb 21, 2023 14:55
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Zaroff posted:My favourite story about this was when someone (I think it was Scott Bakula) was talking to guest star Rene Auberjonois about how he liked the script, and Auberjonois said ‘yeah, it was really good when I did it for DS9 10 years ago’ ...And then again the premise was re-reused pretty much as the A-plot of DISCO S3 finale part 1. So it wasn't only the apples that were recycled and full of poo poo in that season ender. Der Kyhe fucked around with this message at 16:18 on Feb 21, 2023 |
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Feb 21, 2023 15:48
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knox posted:Does anyone rate specific season of Enterprise as on the level of the best Star Trek? I'm an outlier in the thread, but I'd rate every season of Enterprise as on the level of the worst Star Trek. Whatever episode of Discovery I liked least, and there are a multitude of contenders there, I'd rather rewatch that than the best episode of Enterprise.
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Feb 21, 2023 16:06
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Enterprise has a few legit stinker episodes in there but overall its greatest sin is just that it's boring as gently caress. A gunmetal grey morass of Bermantrek that just goes nowhere, does nothing, and never lives up to its potential. Season three picks it up and generally season four is about on par with your standard Voyager episode. I'd still watch it over Discovery any day of the week though, so different strokes I guess.
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Feb 21, 2023 16:12
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Season 4 is in the upper tier of Trek for me, basically every multi parter they did that season nailed it and worked as a really good format for Federation: Origins storylines. Getting all the way to season 4 and knowing it only had a single good season before cancellation though... it's a difficult trek
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Feb 21, 2023 16:16
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One might say... it's a long road.
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Feb 21, 2023 16:41
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I generally liked ENT, even ranking it higher than VOY (though thats not saying a lot), and definitely more so than discovery and picard. Its got a lot of faults, but the thing is it has fun episodes I enjoy and rewatch, discovery doesn't have any episodes I can go back to. No, I take that back, I could probably watch that Mud episode again (even though i never have), but the rest of the show is just one long continuous slog that I couldn't even name you one given episode. I can sort of describe general plots, but I have no idea what episodes they're in or if they're even in one episode alone or across a couple. Even a good serialized show, I can't imagine just popping in a random episode of The Wire, or Breaking bad. Its so strange to just basically read like one random chapter in a book basically. I'm honestly fascinated by someone who would just... boot up a random episode of discovery. Thats so weird to me.
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Feb 21, 2023 16:48
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Drone posted:Enterprise has a few legit stinker episodes in there but overall its greatest sin is just that it's boring as gently caress. A gunmetal grey morass of Bermantrek that just goes nowhere, does nothing, and never lives up to its potential. While much of TNG's set still appears futuristic and modern even today somehow Berman and Co. made Enterprise look dated right from the get go. Thick rear end early 2000's 4:3 LCD monitors from best buy just strapped to everything.
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Feb 21, 2023 16:54
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Season 4 of Enterprise is my least favorite. Most of it is just fanwankery, trying to fill in plot holes. The trip and tpol stuff is good though.
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Feb 21, 2023 16:58
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Tom Guycot posted:I generally liked ENT, even ranking it higher than VOY (though thats not saying a lot), and definitely more so than discovery and picard. Weirdly, my 'random timekiller Star Trek of choice' of late has been Voyager, because there's a bunch of episodes I only watched once when they were first broadcast and have forgotten 99% of what happens in them. Whereas TOS, TNG and DS9 I've seen every episode at least twice, and many probably more. Why not ENT, which has a slew of episodes I've never seen at all? Simply because I prefer VOY's kinda-okay McDonald's meal characters to the thin gruel of ENT's crew.
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Feb 21, 2023 17:04
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Payndz posted:The same applies even more so to Picard. "I'm really in the mood for some random Star Trek. What shall I rewatch? I know - Picard 2x07!" Picard 2x07 is a hell of a pick though, you get Head Baltar the shrink, young Picard telling his mother he doesn't want to be a 'prince' like his father but like her (a queen), perfectly justifiable spousal imprisonment because 24th century France doesn't have mental health services and weird vampire dream monsters. It's like the most batshit episode of the show
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Feb 21, 2023 17:08
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No Dignity posted:Picard 2x07 is a hell of a pick though, you get Head Baltar the shrink, young Picard telling his mother he doesn't want to be a 'prince' like his father but like her (a queen), perfectly justifiable spousal imprisonment because 24th century France doesn't have mental health services and weird vampire dream monsters. It's like the most batshit episode of the show
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Feb 21, 2023 17:18
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Payndz posted:The same applies even more so to Picard. "I'm really in the mood for some random Star Trek. What shall I rewatch? I know - Picard 2x07!" Every time I try to get excited about watching ENT again I stop when I start to remember just how... uninteresting and boring the characters are, especially when contrasted with the cast of say DS9. Every character in DS9 is portrayed to the audience as being mature and experienced in their particular field and they are given back stories that give them depth. Every character in Enterprise comes off as being one note and hilariously green.
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Feb 21, 2023 17:18
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Payndz posted:The same applies even more so to Picard. "I'm really in the mood for some random Star Trek. What shall I rewatch? I know - Picard 2x07!" The worst is they're doing it as a big serialized story but also... making sure none of it matters at all. I didn't even finish season 1 and never watched season 2, and starting off watchign season 3 I don't feel like I've missed anything, or there are any questions I have about whats going on. Like Picard is a robot now- doesn't matter. Characters died and disappeared in bars- doesn't matter. Borg time travel poo poo? Doesn't matter. The whole thing is disposable so why even do these slogs of a season? At least if it was episodic you might find an episode in a season that works. Like, SNW has been overall really good. But theres stuff like the gorn episode which I hated fiercely, but thats ok! Because I can go watch Spock Amok or another one and everything isn't chained to one bad idea.
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Feb 21, 2023 17:22
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Penitent posted:Every character in Enterprise comes off as being one note and hilariously green. Which, could have worked! Nobody on earth has experience crewing a long range high speed exploration vessel! They're all green, growing and learning on the job. But Enterprise just... couldn't execute.
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Feb 21, 2023 17:23
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No Dignity posted:Picard 2x07 is a hell of a pick though, you get Head Baltar the shrink, young Picard telling his mother he doesn't want to be a 'prince' like his father but like her (a queen), perfectly justifiable spousal imprisonment because 24th century France doesn't have mental health services and weird vampire dream monsters. It's like the most batshit episode of the show I still can't believe Terry Matalas had the unmitigated balls to try and compare that episode to A Beautiful Mind. Holy poo poo.
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Feb 21, 2023 17:30
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nine-gear crow posted:I still can't believe Terry Matalas had the unmitigated balls to try and compare that episode to A Beautiful Mind. Holy poo poo. i think terry matalas has not seen any of the things he supposedly references. its the only way any of it makes sense
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Feb 21, 2023 17:50
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Beeftweeter posted:i think terry matalas has not seen any of the things he supposedly references. its the only way any of it makes sense It was literally "Well, Akiva Goldsman wrote A Beautiful Mind and won an Oscar for it, and Akiva Goldsman works on this show, and this episode ALSO deals with mental illness and delusion, ergo this episode is like A Beautiful Mind Akiva Goldsman did not write the episode Terry Matals compared to A Beautiful Mind, and in fact seemingly had no input over the show aside from Episode 1 and Episode 10." So, you know, classic Terry [image of a Pakled going "we are smart!" here] Matalas.
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Feb 21, 2023 17:58
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Beeftweeter posted:i think terry matalas has not seen any of the things he supposedly references. its the only way any of it makes sense I've always wondered how much executives and directors and people in that area of production actually consume media. When I picture these types "watching" the old show they're basing their new show off of, it's like a dozen people in a room putting on clips while talking over it. Do these guys actually sit on a couch and binge a show ever?
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Feb 21, 2023 18:14
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I've had some dealings with Hollywood people, and one of my takeaways was "how the hell do you find the time to watch all the stuff you're supposed to watch to keep up with current trends and your competition while at the same time working ludicrous hours making your own stuff?"
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Feb 21, 2023 18:44
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I find the Les Moonves and Jeff Zucker types to be more interesting in the US media business. Utterly unrepentant shitheads who take pride on being the guys who "got Conan sacked" or "got Star Trek finally cancelled". Why do these "I hate everything this channel produces and will ensure that this place runs on pure spite towards our audiences" keep getting platforms, and why the ever-loving gently caress anyone think that this is good for business?
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Feb 21, 2023 19:12
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Well it does seem like being a shithead to everyone underneath you and spiteful to what you create does a poo poo ton of business. Well maybe not quite as much in the past year or two with the bills coming in, but they will ensure that those underneath them will be paying those as well
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Feb 21, 2023 19:14
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It's not about being 'good for business' or great art in late stage capitalism; it's about milking a property for every last cent and then taking a golden parachute.
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Feb 21, 2023 19:14
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Tom Guycot posted:I generally liked ENT, even ranking it higher than VOY (though thats not saying a lot), and definitely more so than discovery and picard. Enterprise is, by and large, aggressively fine. It's chicken nuggets, and some of the episodes come out of the oven a little better than others. I had never watched it back when it originally aired (I was basically Done With Trek after DS9 ended), but going back and watching it 20 years later, I find it weirdly refreshing after the constant  GALAXY ENDING PERIL of Disco and Picard.
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Feb 21, 2023 19:56
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something dark is always coming
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Feb 21, 2023 20:25
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drat, consensus all over the place. Thanks for the replies, I'm watching random Enterprise episodes and will probably watch all of S3-S4. I have no desire to watch any modern Trek besides maybe Picard stuff due to gf favorite character being Data.
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Feb 21, 2023 21:03
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knox posted:drat, consensus all over the place. Thanks for the replies, I'm watching random Enterprise episodes and will probably watch all of S3-S4. In Enterprise S1-2 it's at least worth watching all the Vulcan/Andorian episodes and season 2 from the Borg episode onwards. Also Strange New Worlds is the good stuff, I wouldn't write that all just because it's new trek
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Feb 21, 2023 21:09
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ENT felt desperate for viewers even as it was airing, you could tell the creatives on that show were burned out modern trek has been awful enough that the entire concept of this thing being a shared universe is now working against it
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Feb 21, 2023 21:11
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No Dignity posted:In Enterprise S1-2 it's at least worth watching all the Vulcan/Andorian episodes Yeah, any ENT episode with Jeffery Combs in the guest credits is gonna be a good time.
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Feb 21, 2023 21:14
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Tighclops posted:ENT felt desperate for viewers even as it was airing, you could tell the creatives on that show were burned out that's why you jump ahead 100 years! everybody's fuckin dead! all the aliens are different now!
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Feb 21, 2023 21:23
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The ENT andorians are some of my favorite star trek makeup jobs in the whole series. Its simple, but the constantly moving antenna to punctuate sentences and moods adds so much character to their personalities that just makes them pop like no other costume. That was a big disappointment in SNW for me honestly. I loved Hemmer and thought he was such a rad character and a great addition to bring back an enar as a full cast member, but the makeup effects were just a step back from what the makeup teams were doing 20 years earlier.
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Feb 21, 2023 21:24
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Tighclops posted:ENT felt desperate for viewers even as it was airing, you could tell the creatives on that show were burned out ENT was a executive-torpedoed "design by committee"-show that wasn't what the Voyager fans or DS9 fans could enjoy. The per-episode writing was really, really lazy, weak most of the time when the script wasn't recycled or just otherwise stereotypical crap, and the overall arc of temporal war was just not going anywhere and was out-of-place to begin with considering the setting. It wasn't helped by the fact that the actual acting talent was mistyped, or didn't exist in some of the main characters at all because they switched the actually interesting backstory for a cheesecake character. And from the historical perspective its really damning that rewatching the show now just leaves you with the question "why the gently caress they didn't do what S4 did for the first three seasons?". Der Kyhe fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Feb 21, 2023 |
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Feb 21, 2023 21:40
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Tighclops posted:ENT felt desperate for viewers even as it was airing, you could tell the creatives on that show were burned out A shared universe that doesn't acknowledge eachothers' contributions to that universe, given how Discovery is now so far in the future it's basically in an alternate reality from the other shows, and stuff from Lower Decks and Prodigy are legally prohibited from even appearing in Picard as background details. Strange New Worlds is the only show willing to acknowledge the existence of other Modern Trek ventures, namely Discovery very briefly, and Lower Decks coming up later this year. But that's it.
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Feb 21, 2023 21:42
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Enterprise was also hamstrung by UPN itself. Berman and Braga actually wanted to a) take a year off to recover from burnout before starting to work on Enterprise and b) wanted the entire first season to take place on Earth, with the NX-01 being launched in the season finale. Not only did the network go “gently caress you, we want a space show in space and it needs to be here fall 2001”, they kept trying to wrench in stupid poo poo, like getting popular bands to appear on the ship weekly. It’s a minor miracle the show ended up the way it did.
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Feb 21, 2023 21:47
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Wait no don't watch Enterprise...ah drat I'm too latenine-gear crow posted:A shared universe that doesn't acknowledge eachothers' contributions to that universe, given how Discovery is now so far in the future it's basically in an alternate reality from the other shows, and stuff from Lower Decks and Prodigy are legally prohibited from even appearing in Picard as background details. Strange New Worlds is the only show willing to acknowledge the existence of other Modern Trek ventures, namely Discovery very briefly, and Lower Decks coming up later this year. ENT wanted to have its cake and so on by inventing entire massive antagonists races that we've never heard of like the Xindi and Suliban but also by introducing Golden Age Trek fan faves like the borg and ferengi and "Maybe one day they'll make a NEW directive, one that is superior to all the others. Prime, so to speak"
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Feb 21, 2023 21:49
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Der Kyhe posted:And from the historical perspective its really damning that rewatching the show now just leaves you with the question "why the gently caress they didn't do what S4 did for the first three seasons?". if you check the writing credits, braga is on basically all of them for seasons 1-3 and basically none of them for season 4 lmao
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Feb 21, 2023 21:52
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You can also track the exact moment Braga got back in the writers seat in season 4 too lol
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Feb 21, 2023 21:54
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Paper Lion posted:if you check the writing credits, braga is on basically all of them for seasons 1-3 and basically none of them for season 4 lmao Yeah I know, I got better when Manny Coto got aboard in S3 and was "good Star Trek" when he was the show runner for S4, besides the last episode.
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Feb 21, 2023 21:55
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nine-gear crow posted:A shared universe that doesn't acknowledge eachothers' contributions to that universe, given how Discovery is now so far in the future it's basically in an alternate reality from the other shows, and stuff from Lower Decks and Prodigy are legally prohibited from even appearing in Picard as background details. Strange New Worlds is the only show willing to acknowledge the existence of other Modern Trek ventures, namely Discovery very briefly, and Lower Decks coming up later this year. The last time I tried watching this stuff was the first season of Picard and it retroactively made me less interested in TNG
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Feb 21, 2023 21:58
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Tighclops posted:The last time I tried watching this stuff was the first season of Picard and it retroactively made me less interested in TNG Lower Decks, SNW and Prodigy are all legitimately good shows, but I don't blame you if Picard just sucked the wind out of your sails.
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Feb 21, 2023 22:01
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