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i am harry posted:obviously fermenting tomatoes in giant mason jars and living off seasonally available food is The Way. it's just that instead of any sort of acceptable encouragement to change and adapt to that way of living from the current "HERE BUY THIS!" method of everything, they're basically just saying, "Well look, you've had your entire life to drum up books worth of knowledge about how people used to live, and arguably plenty of time to prepare not only your garden, but also your root cellar, for this very moment we've insisted would never come." Exactly. Does Britain have the same thing as Canada where people both deny the existence of a local cuisine and denigrate it? Because that's an obstacle here. I'm sure in part it's a generational thing, though probably not our generation. The Victorians were very excited that the railway made getting more exotic food (from within Canada, then North America) possible, naturally , and incorporated it into their cooking. A side effect of that was killing local farming and markets but I digress. Probably more fair to say would be intense specialization because cereals in particular could be sent easily by train so production became concentrated in the west. Then, better steamship routes made getting ingredients from the Caribbean, then the rest of the world possible. None of this is to say that there wasn't spice, variety, interesting ingredients before, it's just people were very excited to have new things. Sort of like how there are lots of recipes from the 60's that have pineapple. It was new, and people were excited to have it. Maybe 20 years ago it was mango, 10-15 years ago pomegranate, that sort of thing. While all of this is going on, restaurants were starting to emerge. They had always existed in hotels and things like that, so I guess what I mean is popular restaurants. Now here is the part that I don't know if it's specific to Canada. Nearly all of the first restaurants people encountered in any given part of the country were Chinese restaurants. That's down to the small town level, too. The reasons as far as immigration and modifying food for Canadian tastes are interesting (Chinese people could not own businesses except for restaurants and laundries, but made up something like 60% of restaurant owners.) Very cool stuff, there's an emerging scholarship on it, Chop Suey Nation: The Legion Cafe and Other Stories from Canada’s Chinese Restaurants, it's even been included in national museums. (Which sparked a ferocious identity politics debate about if Chinese restaurants are part of Canadian History, Chinese-Canadian or Chinese (in Canada) History. It was a whole thing, and got pretty nasty as far as spats in museology go) Anyway, my point in all of this is why did restaurants open in small towns and why were the first ones Chinese? Well, the very short answer is that it happened at a time when everybody knew how to cook and implicitly knew what their regional, "Canadian" if you like, cooking was. You would not go out to a restaurant to eat the food available at home. The ingredients, spices, flavours were exotic and that was the point. Chinese cooks even played it up, diverging from the typical dishes of their regions of China to create food that was more I suppose you could say bold. I don't know if people realize that most staples of Chinese menus in Canada were invented here, for Canadians. In fact, one famous menu item's Chinese name is a slur, which means "Ghost People Food". So, in the background of all of this you have to remember that people knew and liked their own regional food and ingredients, but there was no point in opening a restaurant to serve them. Upper Middle class people often, and Upper class people universally, employed cooks, recipes were well known, quality of home cooking was good, so nobody would pay for it, I guess is my point. At some point, something changed, I want to say maybe in the 60's, and people became really dismissive of home cooking, which was of course regional cuisine, if you're following me. They either didn't learn to cook the family recipes, or didn't like them, and it became déclassé to not cook at home from more I suppose you could say sophisticated cookbooks, which were international in character. If not international, then homogenized. I wish I knew more about this period because I've seen it referenced by Canadian chefs who are bringing dishes and local ingredients back, but I only know the stereotypes about microwaves, beef stroganoff, and JELL-O in the 60's and 70's. After that, I don't know if culinary skills faded or whatever, but a lot of awareness of local cuisine has faded and so when people hear "potatoes and turnips", if they don't sneer and think of their grandparents' cooking, they probably remember their parents sneering. I guess people grew up hearing about boiled beef and barley and think it was awful, bland and grey (which it wasn't, and why it's remembered that way is probably a part of all of this). So, when you have politicians tell people to cook the regionally available food, that's pushing up against these huge divides that, I want to say consumer culture played a part, have been created for at least two generations. People don't know what's locally available, and they think it's bad, basically. I seem to remember that British people consistently vote Curry their favoured national dish. Rather than being an indictment of British cooking, I think that's a parallel to the case in Canada. Curry was a restaurant food that differed from what was available at home, which made it exciting and different. Now we've lost a connection to home cooking, many people can't cook or don't like to, so - yeah of course their preference is for curry. One last point. This is not just a phenomenon happening to "Canadians", the bland, default, "without culture" that has come to mean stereotypically. Canada had a large wave of Ukrainian and German immigration from the 50-60's in Western Canada. Obviously, they brought their own cuisine with them. What did their kids eat? Chinese food. And so now, people are trying to revive that culinary tradition, writing cookbooks, opening restaurants, because again German immigrants and their kids were not going to go to a German restaurant, so if they didn't learn to cook, German cooking would fade from the culture. Second and third generation German Canadians were about as dismissive as German cooking as I suppose you could say British Canadians are of theirs, but now we're seeing renewed interest, and the same is true across many diaspora groups. I hope this wasn't too discursive, but you're absolutely right that you can't say "cook like your great-grandparents". I mean, it's possible, it would be good for people, the economy, the environment, but it's such an insane thing to tell people. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 17:39 on Feb 23, 2023 |
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Feb 23, 2023 17:36
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as an outside observer it’s really amazing how much things settled down once rishi took over
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Feb 23, 2023 17:37
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Jose posted:it rules that because they forced him on us despite it obviously being a loving disaster they're now forced to follow him everywhere because he's an ex-PM sasquatch sighting
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Feb 23, 2023 17:39
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Gripweed posted:It's still insane to me that he got away with pinning the entire anti-Semitism scandal on Corbyn. Tens of thousands of cases of anti-semitism across only a few years, but it's OK, we got the one bad guy. It was all his fault, the entire culture of casual anti-semitism was because of this one guy, who we fired, please don't look into it anymore. And then when Jewish Labour members complained about it, they got kicked out too without a word of mention from the media. Because the scandal was over because they caught the bad guy. Amazing. imo it's cause there's not many jewish people in the UK and basically no jewish people in the rest of the world know or care about what's going on in the UK. so they could just say whatever they want about antisemitism and feel confident they wouldn't get a significant amount of pushback from anyone as long as they weren't saying "antisemitism is good".
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Feb 23, 2023 17:40
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the 60s is about when two people working outside the house became the norm
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Feb 23, 2023 17:41
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the sex ghost posted:He's basically gonna win by default just by turning up but Keir eating absolute poo poo would be uproariously funny for the 11 seconds before remembering that rishi has got a mandate to do gently caress all while the final copper wires are pulled out of the nation's walls Hung parliament is my ideal situation. Gives kieth and the centrists a big black eye and gives the left a chance at a comeback but doesn’t allow Tory rule to destroy everything
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Feb 23, 2023 17:43
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I expect Labour to win but underperform and for the media to start undermining Keith almost immediately.
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Feb 23, 2023 17:50
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thanks kier. just got loving done chiseling the loving stone with the pledges from the last relaunch, and you drop this on me? gently caress you. you can put it on the side of a bus like normal people
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Feb 23, 2023 18:09
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Zeroisanumber posted:I expect Labour to win but underperform and for the media to start undermining Keith almost immediately. Totally. There are still enough brain worm people to vote Tory to make everything narrow wins, if that. It will start with opinion pieces. Chiles will say how toilets were better under Tory rule. Then full blown 'WHY HAVENT YOU FIXED THE LAST DECADE WITHIN MINUTES KEIR!"
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Feb 23, 2023 18:12
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euphronius posted:as an outside observer it’s really amazing how much things settled down once rishi took over from a media perspective yeah it’s all hunky dory right now, but obviously the strikes have taken a more robust turn recently with the nurses properly going on complete strike for 48 hours (including A&E) in the near future so watch this space
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Feb 23, 2023 20:09
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i am harry posted:obviously fermenting tomatoes in giant mason jars and living off seasonally available food is The Way. it's just that instead of any sort of acceptable encouragement to change and adapt to that way of living from the current "HERE BUY THIS!" method of everything, they're basically just saying, "Well look, you've had your entire life to drum up books worth of knowledge about how people used to live, and arguably plenty of time to prepare not only your garden, but also your root cellar, for this very moment we've insisted would never come." why would you need a root cellar? Or books of knowledge? I think there may be some middle ground here. Farmers > storage > supermarket > people BBC cooking shows focus on seasonal food. Obviously this requires Big Government planning that no one wants to do.. But brexit has happened and the countries we should look to for inspiration on how to deal with the agricultural problems are Cuba and the DPRK who have utilised urban farming and science driven collective farming (w/ some market driven plots) - they've survived both the US blockade and the collapse of the USSR. The funny thing is this problem was our own doing lol
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Feb 23, 2023 20:46
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Canning food is actually not hard and a fun way to pass the afternoon with your partner, I make a dozen or so cans of pickles and tomatoes and veggies in the spring and eat them over the fall. The tomatoes are great for sauces. But I also don't want to go back to the time in my family's history where a knocked-over shelf would mean that it was either hunt squirrel through four feet of snow in subzero weather or starve. And I don't think the opportunity for that is as prevalent in 2023 England as it was in 1960 Wisconsin.
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Feb 23, 2023 21:34
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Zeroisanumber posted:Canning food is actually not hard and a fun way to pass the afternoon with your partner, I make a dozen or so cans of pickles and tomatoes and veggies in the spring and eat them over the fall. The tomatoes are great for sauces. but we already have industrial scale canning why would individuals have to do it. The cans already exist they're already in the shops All this affects is availability of "fresh" fruit and veg on a seasonal basis, favouring local produce throughout the year.
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Feb 23, 2023 21:55
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we’re all going to get scurvy or lead poisoning depending on if we choose to eat the cans outsourced to serco
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Feb 23, 2023 21:57
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Jose posted:he's so loving bad lol Starmer is playing a blinder. Little visible Party dissent, Corbyn seen off, enormous lead in the Polls. Brilliant, hopefully we have a Politician who can manage well as proven, also has experience relevant to the PM role. By stating an aim of economic growth he has posed the question how? A starter for ten, causing the CU and SM debate will open. A lawyer who knows not to ask a question he doesn’t know the answer too. Those who want bluster, ideology and confrontation won’t appreciate the skill of this man. They will continue to be dissatisfied with him as their own ineffective abilities hide what they can’t see.
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Feb 23, 2023 21:58
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"he chairs a good meeting" still his strongest virtue I see
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Feb 23, 2023 22:02
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big scrum master energy
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Feb 23, 2023 22:07
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the sex ghost posted:Surprised no Tories have gone with the line that rationing is good because it's like the war buddy, they won't even let me gently caress the blitz
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Feb 23, 2023 22:37
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Jel Shaker posted:Starmer is playing a blinder. Little visible Party dissent, Corbyn seen off, enormous lead in the Polls. Brilliant, hopefully we have a Politician who can manage well as proven, also has experience relevant to the PM role. lol
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Feb 23, 2023 23:06
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it’s always fun to dip into the guardian comments when they allow them, here’s another cracker At last, we seem to have a grown-up up in the room. Like him or loathe him, he's a drat sight more palatable than the vile, lying Tories. (By the way, I voted for Corbyn, twice). i suspect the final line is a lie
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Feb 23, 2023 23:41
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Zeroisanumber posted:Canning food is actually not hard
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Feb 24, 2023 00:06
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Just realised the turnip lady is the same person who couldn't even pretend to give a poo poo on tv about that lady dying of starvation next to her infant jfc englabd
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Feb 24, 2023 04:51
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I hate this oval office so much https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1628823519948685313?t=ohKrp9l7oaIExBtEA1g-pQ&s=19
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Feb 24, 2023 09:10
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You know what Wes, Bernie didn't win. The person who did win was the poster child for ultra lib economics and bloodthirsty foreign interventionalism. Guess what happened, they ate poo poo.
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Feb 24, 2023 09:28
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keep punching joe posted:You know what Wes, Bernie didn't win. The person who did win was the poster child for ultra lib economics and bloodthirsty foreign interventionalism. no biden won
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Feb 24, 2023 09:35
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i say swears online posted:no biden won Indeed, though he pretty much won by default, which is right wing libs' favourite way to win Just like they're hoping for Starmer
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Feb 24, 2023 10:16
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if trump comes back i wonder if it will put the frighteners onto the labour spads already planning a second term
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Feb 24, 2023 10:43
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i say swears online posted:no biden won Oh yeah I forgot about that guy. At least he likes unions I guess.
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Feb 24, 2023 10:48
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keep punching joe posted:Oh yeah I forgot about that guy. you are thinking of a different joe
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Feb 24, 2023 10:56
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Turtle Watch posted:you are thinking of a different joe You mean Joe Hill? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8Kxq9uFDes
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Feb 24, 2023 11:04
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:You mean Joe Hill? Thats a good Joe
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Feb 24, 2023 11:15
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https://twitter.com/BylineTimes/status/1629094592422223873 This is your reminder that anybody with a UK passport needs no visa or paperwork to simply drive to Ireland and start working and renting there. I mean pets need forms and moving lorries cost a few grand but still.
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Feb 24, 2023 14:20
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Lol renting in Ireland
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Feb 24, 2023 14:42
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It's fine if you're not near Dublin
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Feb 24, 2023 14:43
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gonadic io posted:https://twitter.com/BylineTimes/status/1629094592422223873 I think you mean that, actually, two-thirds of the planet want to migrate to the UK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdenpoDTEy4&t=282s
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Feb 24, 2023 14:44
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Tfw you want to leave the UK but your passport is now worthless through the actions of every government since 2016.
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Feb 24, 2023 15:11
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Then once you're in Ireland it's 10 years residency for a passport or 3 if you're married to somebody with one already. If your parent or grandparent has citizenship, or is still living and was born there you can get citizenship too, can go straight to the EU don't need to live in Ireland at all.
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Feb 24, 2023 15:15
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Going via Ireland is by far the easiest and cheapest way to leave the UK, for just normal people that aren't well off tech workers or whatever.
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Feb 24, 2023 15:17
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Well, either that or move to Scotland/NI and cross your fingers
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Feb 24, 2023 15:19
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https://twitter.com/UKLFI/status/1625441071210659840
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Feb 24, 2023 15:23
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