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Shaman Tank Spec posted:Yeah, as someone who played and loved both Niohs that's what I also suspect, but the game does a pretty awful job of presenting the information in any reasonable format. Fair, it could do with a more robust tutorial about what all the various elements do and what affects what. Will probably clear up a lot once people start posting builds for certain weapons/spells. That's one change I really do like, instead of tying magic to items or MP it just costs stamina which you're constantly regening through combat. Makes it feel a lot better to try them all out a lot versus saving it up for bigger encounters.
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Feb 25, 2023 12:37
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Yeah, I really don't like the limited use thing for spells in Nioh, it meant I just saved them. The prompt for how you're supposed to spirit summon to beat the boss should absolutely just be a pop-up lol. I'm not gonna loving do any tooltip reading in the middle of a boss fight. I downloaded the Steam demo and beat him on my first try, though, so I'm pretty happy about that.
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Feb 25, 2023 12:55
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Shaman Tank Spec posted:I don't think this game has much of a chance of being a smash hit. At the end of the day you're limited to one play style (which goes against what people liked about Elden Ring, the massive freedom), the level based system will feel like a step back from Elden Ring, the level design is kinda bad compared to From games, ancient China isn't traditionally the setting with the most mass appeal outside of China, and the game's gonna launch with a reputation for being "Sekiro, but even more bullshit". That reputation might not be 100% earned, but it's gonna be there. I’ve never played either Nioh, but Stranger of Paradise had terrible loot until DLC 2, at which point it got really good if you enjoy diablolike build optimization. It seems to have been a purposeful decision to make loot meaningless until post game to keep the difficulty curve under control through the story, then let players who really like rpg mechanics just shatter it.
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Feb 25, 2023 12:59
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Vermain posted:it's a good way to give the game a more granular "easy mode" that's also build neutral: you don't want players grinding out actual levels and ruining your planned character progression curve, so you have a secondary leveling system that's mission-dependent and based more around exploration than raw combat to give people an out if they really get stuck Ya i think people are downplaying it, it's a really smart twist to Sekiro's combat. Basically it rewards you even more for being aggressive than Sekiro. Shaman Tank Spec posted:I don't think this game has much of a chance of being a smash hit. At the end of the day you're limited to one play style (which goes against what people liked about Elden Ring, the massive freedom), the level based system will feel like a step back from Elden Ring, the level design is kinda bad compared to From games, ancient China isn't traditionally the setting with the most mass appeal outside of China, and the game's gonna launch with a reputation for being "Sekiro, but even more bullshit". That reputation might not be 100% earned, but it's gonna be there. Don't know how fair it is to compare games to Elden Rings. I think for Team Ninja if they get 2-3m that's good enough, they are not as big as Fromsoft and you can tell they reuse even more assets than Fromsoft. Sekiro did insanely well, if you compare all of Fromsoft's games to Elden Ring ya they did worse than it. But Sekiro was ultra hard completely new IP and it had sold 5m companies in it's first year. That is before even more people joined the Fromsoft cult after Elden Ring. Latter sales mean less since they are discounted but since Sekiro is published by Activision I have rarely ever seen it below even $30 bucks on sale. Also this is their first proper multiplatform game and Microsoft paid them for day one gamepass. So I am guessing they need to sell even less copies to be profitable. If it gets good reviews and just on being from the makers of Nioh it should sell 2m copies. There isn't much coming out in March anyway. I think it will do as good as Nioh. Stranger of Paradise was a good game but the visuals/performance put a lot of people off. This doesn't seem to have that issue barring perhaps PC but apparently pc demo isn't the same as the launch ver. Ulio fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Feb 25, 2023 |
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Feb 25, 2023 15:05
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Ulio posted:Don't know how fair it is to compare games to Elden Rings. Oh not fair at all, but you know that's going to happen. Elden Ring was such a huge hit above anything From have ever done that it's going to bring a lot of attention to Wo Long, and then people are gonna be real disappointed when it's not going to be that. Personally I had such a good time with the demo, warts and all, that I took the assignment for my publication's review. I obviously can't say anything about the full game before the review embargo is up beyond saying I have the game, but I did have a small lol when I beat the first level boss (obviously quite a bit more easily than when I was beating my head against the demo's boss shaped wall) and the achievement for killing the boss popped up. Because this is the Xbox version it also told me what percentage of players also have that achievement: 0,3%.
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Feb 25, 2023 15:25
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Hey this game's great. I COULD grind my morale up to make fighting this tiger easier, or I could stubbornly run straight to it every time I die and bash my head against it until I figure it out! I did learn that defense from armor mitigates a lot of the damage it deals. Not sure what the difference between blue and green weight is, but at yellow you lose your cool flippy dodge and get a dark souls roll, and at red you can't deflect at all which is probably unplayable, it even puts a status effect icon on your screen to let you know you've hosed up. Haven't figured out whether weight helps with blocking but it did in Nioh so you know, probably.
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Feb 25, 2023 15:45
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If you are struggling with the Tiger demon you can go around the house to the right, scale that, and get the drop on him. Game owns for me, finished the demo, bought the game, now re-running second area trying different weapons. I love the Paodao so far, makes me feel like Gan Ning from Dynasty Warriors, and the staff is tops (you can beat the ever loving poo poo out of the first phase of the first boss with it). I am going to try dual swords and spear next. It's Chinese Sekiro with magic and more weapons and character customization, so I'm pretty happy. It really has a distinct feel from Nioh, despite sharing a few things. Hope there is just a bare fist style at some point. I hope there's more item shenanigans in the main game like Ninjutsu in Nioh, and the ability to learn and customize martial arts on weapons. Feels very Dynasty Warriors meets Sekiro in terms of combat and characters, and I like the balance so far. I hope the Lu Bu Boss fight ends when he just gets bored with you though, in true DW Koei fashion  .
TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Feb 25, 2023 |
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Feb 25, 2023 16:26
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A Bystander posted:Was not even aware there was a tiger to fight. It's funny to me that the tiger gets called a secret when, for me, it was on the most visually obvious path and finding where to go after that took me like 10 minutes of running around in circles.
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Feb 25, 2023 16:28
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lets hang out posted:Hey this game's great. I COULD grind my morale up to make fighting this tiger easier, or I could stubbornly run straight to it every time I die and bash my head against it until I figure it out! What's the difference between morale and fortitude? I think it was fortitude I was looking at earlier, that number at the top right of the screen that goes up every time you plant a flag. I guess morale is the number that shows up in the middle of the screen and seems to go up as you kill enemies? lets hang out posted:I did learn that defense from armor mitigates a lot of the damage it deals. Not sure what the difference between blue and green weight is, but at yellow you lose your cool flippy dodge and get a dark souls roll, Yeah my survivability went way up when I put on some heavier armor, and I did find that at 70% you get a mid roll dodge. ProTip: If you double tap O to roll, you can hit O a third time to do another smaller dodge for no extra stamina. lets hang out posted:and at red you can't deflect at all which is probably unplayable, it even puts a status effect icon on your screen to let you know you've hosed up. Haven't figured out whether weight helps with blocking but it did in Nioh so you know, probably. Over/under on how many days until some streamer is doing a Red Encumbrance Run?
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Feb 25, 2023 16:56
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Takes No Damage posted:What's the difference between morale and fortitude? I think it was fortitude I was looking at earlier, that number at the top right of the screen that goes up every time you plant a flag. I guess morale is the number that shows up in the middle of the screen and seems to go up as you kill enemies? I think morale is the temporary number you get, and the higher it is (and the bigger the difference to the enemy) the stronger you are, until you die or take those red unblockable attacks, at which point you will lose a bunch of it, but never going below your fortitude level. E: also holy poo poo the chasm between the bosses of level 1 and level 2 is insane. Spent hours learning the first boss, blew through the second level bosses with three tries, and on the first try, respectively. These are the demo second level bosses of course. Shaman Tank Spec fucked around with this message at 17:18 on Feb 25, 2023 |
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Feb 25, 2023 17:08
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WarEternal posted:It's funny to me that the tiger gets called a secret when, for me, it was on the most visually obvious path and finding where to go after that took me like 10 minutes of running around in circles.  I was playing the demo last night after work and died to the tiger like five times in a row before putting it down. Was just thinking like "dang, I guess that's this game's equivalent of that first tough yokai, like the yoki in Nioh 1 or the enki in Nioh 2."
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Feb 25, 2023 17:09
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Shaman Tank Spec posted:Oh not fair at all, but you know that's going to happen. Elden Ring was such a huge hit above anything From have ever done that it's going to bring a lot of attention to Wo Long, and then people are gonna be real disappointed when it's not going to be that. I think its gonna do fine, its coming out at an empty period and they already got a bag from Microsoft and its on all platforms. I think the Elden Ring comparision will happen more to Armored Core 6 or w.e soulslike Fromsoft themselves release. It's fair to compare this to Nioh in terms of success/gameplay.
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Feb 25, 2023 17:23
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Jack Trades posted:Just gotta farm those dudes before the tiger until your morale is high enough and then it's piss easy. lol. It is nice to have options to make it a lot easier for players that need it.
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Feb 25, 2023 17:44
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A few qualms I have: -The loot system is still a bit annoying to deal with. I'm glad that there are fewer drops than Nioh overall, but as many weapon types as there are, it also means you can go a long time without seeing your preferred weapon drop. In my second playthrough I saw multiple weapon types that I didn't see at all in my first - the spear is really cool! I suppose that's why the more Dark Souls-like upgrade system is included, but: -Do you really have to find the upgrade lady in the stages? In the demo you just automatically go from stage to stage, and it seems like the map has a much smaller role than it did in Nioh 2, since you can only really see it at a flag point. Maybe this is something reserved for the full game, but I hope you just get the ability to do all maintenance from a menu - and I'm also unsure what this means for optional stages. Will there be a twilight equivalent this time? -The weapons, while very cool, definitely blend together a bit more than they did in Nioh. Really the main difference seems to be speed and whatever special moves are attached to them - it's not like they make you play differently, ultimately, since parrying is generally the main mechanic. This might be a problem for the people who want Builds, but I guess we'll have to wait and see. There's still the whole elemental system to dig into.
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Feb 25, 2023 17:56
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:lol. It is nice to have options to make it a lot easier for players that need it. Kotaku was right. Every piece of challenge in a videogame should have a skip button.
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Feb 25, 2023 17:58
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Ulio posted:I think its gonna do fine I don't think it's going to flop or anything, as you said being on Gamepass helps a lot at least for player figures, but I don't think it's gonna be their biggest hit or anything. But we'll see!
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Feb 25, 2023 18:06
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it is still extremely funny to me that their approach to storytelling hasn't changed since nioh 2, in that they just kind of assume you know what three kingdoms is and makes no attempt to inform you otherwise
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Feb 25, 2023 18:10
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Vermain posted:it is still extremely funny to me that their approach to storytelling hasn't changed since nioh 2, in that they just kind of assume you know what three kingdoms is and makes no attempt to inform you otherwise It's kinda wild to me that China seemingly has two stories: Journey to the West and Three Kingdoms. Making an entertainment product set in China? Well take your pick! I initially thought that they were just lightly borrowing from the Three Kingdoms stuff with the Yellow Turbans and all that, but nope: the gang's all here like it was Game Master Anthony's birthday!
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Feb 25, 2023 18:15
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We're you expecting a Koei game set in the Three Kingdoms to not go full Romance/ DW on you? This is Koei
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Feb 25, 2023 18:19
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Bold of them to reference the most famous novel in history
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Feb 25, 2023 18:26
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TulliusCicero posted:We're you expecting a Koei game set in the Three Kingdoms to not go full Romance/ DW on you? I was hoping they would've gotten it out of their systems after nine Dynasty Warriors.
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Feb 25, 2023 18:27
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Tfw no Outlaws on the Marsh based soulslike
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Feb 25, 2023 18:39
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My Crab is Fight posted:Tfw no Outlaws on the Marsh based soulslike i'm still wishing for a taipeng rebellion game one of these days Shaman Tank Spec posted:also holy poo poo the chasm between the bosses of level 1 and level 2 is insane. Spent hours learning the first boss, blew through the second level bosses with three tries, and on the first try, respectively. These are the demo second level bosses of course. it feels weird because the second mission is supposed to be one of the gentler bridging missions, like what nioh 2 did, where you'd have serious story boss missions mixed in with "defeat this slightly more powerful normal enemy" missions, but the structure of the demo is such that it feels off in terms of basic intuitive pacing Vermain fucked around with this message at 18:54 on Feb 25, 2023 |
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Feb 25, 2023 18:51
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Shaman Tank Spec posted:I was hoping they would've gotten it out of their systems after nine Dynasty Warriors. See I'm always up for more DW, so this game is my jam atm Vermain posted:i'm still wishing for a taipeng rebellion game one of these days I would loving love this
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Feb 25, 2023 18:53
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Takes No Damage posted:That's one change I really do like, instead of tying magic to items or MP it just costs stamina which you're constantly regening through combat. Makes it feel a lot better to try them all out a lot versus saving it up for bigger encounters. Probably my favorite change so far.
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Feb 25, 2023 18:56
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wizardry and martial arts being tied solely to spirit is such a loving great change, especially for the kind of high-flying wuxia action the game's trying to cultivate. comboing an enemy and then finishing with a fire blast feels so natural in this game, in a way it never did in elden ring or, hell, even nioh 2 i also really like the fact that wizardry is available to everyone at no cost, since it adds so much more to do for every single build beyond just basic attacking with your weapon and occasionally pulling out a martial art, and you don't need to dump points into an otherwise useless stat just for that luxury
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Feb 25, 2023 19:02
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^^^ Yeah also beginner protip: put your first level into an element that gives you magic points as that effectively unlocks spells. I put my first few points into wood for HP so I didn't get magic for a little bit.CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:
 Right now my go-to combo is deflect, two regular attacks then either triangle attack, martial arts move or quick spell like the fire burst. You can mix and match your combos quite a bit depending on what kind of movement you need and is virtually stamina neutral. Gonna be fun to watch speedrunners min/max what moves do the most stamina damage and just chain stagger each boss to death.
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Feb 25, 2023 19:08
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The Lu Bu Boss fight better have butt rock or I will be very disappointed.
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Feb 25, 2023 19:14
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demo owns, though I do wish the whole triangle+circle button thing was a pop-up, as someone else in the thread said
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Feb 25, 2023 19:58
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Takes No Damage posted:Yeah also beginner protip: put your first level into an element that gives you magic points as that effectively unlocks spells. I put my first few points into wood for HP so I didn't get magic for a little bit. wizardry point gain is only based on level, not specific stats, as evidenced by my pure wood character with 3 different wood spells to use i'm not sure if it's your total elemental level or if it's just that every X point invested in an individual stat grants universal wizardry points, i'll have to test that out later
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Feb 25, 2023 20:36
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Edit: nvm
Azran fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Feb 25, 2023 |
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Feb 25, 2023 21:43
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Shinji2015 posted:Yeah, agreed. I got curious to see what would happen if I got my morale up super high before the first boss, so I got myself up to lv. 25 beforehand, and I just shredded him. I'm sure later bosses will have higher morale and later levels won't be as easy to grind it on, but right now it seems like an easy way for a player to just ignore a boss's gimmick if you're patient enough oh is that why both the bosses in the second level felt hilariously easy to me? I made sure to do everything in the level and ended up having higher morale than both of them, didn't realize it made such a huge difference
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Feb 25, 2023 21:58
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Augus posted:oh is that why both the bosses in the second level felt hilariously easy to me? I made sure to do everything in the level and ended up having higher morale than both of them, didn't realize it made such a huge difference morale does factor into it, but i think the ape and the boar are both a lot easier to read with the speed of their telegraphs being what they are. stage 1's boss has a weirdly hard first phase because of how much backflipping he does and how it's sometimes difficult to tell how long he's getting staggered by your attacks for, so you can end up with situations where you'll interrupt a chain to do a spirit attack, and then get instantly clobbered with a critical attack due to animation lock
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Feb 25, 2023 22:09
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Vermain posted:wizardry point gain is only based on level, not specific stats, as evidenced by my pure wood character with 3 different wood spells to use I got one investing in a low level stat so im pretty sure its based on total level.
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Feb 25, 2023 22:25
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The demo is super fun! Already more engaged in combat than I was in Nioh 2. Interested to see how the deflect mechanic shakes out with different bosses and enemy types.
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Feb 25, 2023 22:32
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The controls are really wonky to me and I’m having trouble getting on with them. Like I have two different “block” buttons but ones nigh useless and the other is the central mechanic of the game, and I keep pressing the wrong one. And clicking the stick to run is never good in any game. Then a whole face button seems wasted on jump, when everything you jump for (parkour, aerial sneak attacks) Nioh just did contextually to the same effect without wasting a whole button on it.
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Feb 25, 2023 22:53
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Vermain posted:morale does factor into it, but i think the ape and the boar are both a lot easier to read with the speed of their telegraphs being what they are. stage 1's boss has a weirdly hard first phase because of how much backflipping he does and how it's sometimes difficult to tell how long he's getting staggered by your attacks for, so you can end up with situations where you'll interrupt a chain to do a spirit attack, and then get instantly clobbered with a critical attack due to animation lock Yeah, the boar's morale is at 20, and even if you're maxed out the difference isn't as huge as it can be with the first boss, so I don't think it matters as much. The first boss's easily the hardest one in the demo, and especially if you don't know about needing to use Guardian Beast to end his second phase
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Feb 25, 2023 23:14
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Is Nioh 2 worth playing if this is right around the corner? I got stuck on the early snake boss and gave up.
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Feb 25, 2023 23:18
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I wasn't going to preorder until I had a chance to play the demo on PC and Wo Long's regional price here more than doubled early last week  This is what I get for not buying as soon as the store page is up.Noam Chomsky posted:Is Nioh 2 worth playing if this is right around the corner? I got stuck on the early snake boss and gave up. I'd say yes mostly because Wo Long feels like a different game. It's kinda like Dark Souls and Bloodborne; you can see the shared DNA but it's not the same game.
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Feb 25, 2023 23:36
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I'll also add that the Nioh 2 snake boss is a notorious lovely road block and once you manage to grind through it the rest of the game is way more fun and much less frustrating.
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Feb 25, 2023 23:41
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