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McNally posted:Now I'm starting to worry what kinds of things I'm lumped in with through the aLgOrItHm Tons of musket poo poo if my experience is anything to go by.
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Feb 26, 2023 21:11
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My Spirit Otter posted:Goddamnit. The goddang tankie admin squad closing the gbs thread has made this thread move too fast. Totally. I know it’s a bit of posting about posters and forum drama so if I get a probe for it cool. All of this is very indicative of the fact that moderation in GIP is sane/ rational, and willing to cut out problematic people swiftly instead of catering to shitheads. There’s a reason the current events thread here has been one of the best sources of information on the forums for years and in my opinion, it’s because moderation has allowed for natural conversations to happen when it’s slow and clamp down on hostility, swiftly, and harshly when it’s polarizing.
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Feb 26, 2023 21:12
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:Whole bunch of stuff in this thread, here's a sample... Wait, Ian is the Nazi and Karl the chill one? I would have bee6n good money it was the other way around
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Feb 26, 2023 21:12
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McNally posted:Now I'm starting to worry what kinds of things I'm lumped in with through the aLgOrItHm You show up alongside SCP Explained, Legend of Zelda content, PBS Spacetime, various 8-10hr white noise channels I leave on when I sleep, and a bunch of channels that point out marvel/star wars Easter eggs, at least for me 
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Feb 26, 2023 21:13
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steinrokkan posted:Wait, Ian is the Nazi and Karl the chill one? I would have bee6n good money it was the other way around I don't know if Ian is an outright White Supremacist, but he sure loves siding with them. Its more likely that Ian's access to half the firearms he reviews depends on him being chummy with less than progressive people and he just knows which way his bread is buttered, for better or for worse. But thats enough for me. Its hard enough enjoying firearms without dealing with the Far Right in general.
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Feb 26, 2023 21:18
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Humbug Scoolbus posted:Whole bunch of stuff in this thread, here's a sample... Yikes
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Feb 26, 2023 21:18
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If anyone is looking for a YouTube channel on muskets...
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Feb 26, 2023 21:25
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McNally posted:If anyone is looking for a YouTube channel on muskets... i thought your channel was on terrible shirts
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Feb 26, 2023 21:29
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Shaman Tank Spec posted:Love 'em. Hope you guys in turn will put up with a Finnish Defence Force reservist who isn't super into the fascist country next door who keep threatening to invade or nuke us and would like to see Ukraine kick their asses. Rust Martialis posted:Hey, as a resident of Denmark, I understand the feeling here, but in times like this we simply need to put up with Sweden. See, this is the kind of incoming posting I appreciates
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Feb 26, 2023 21:29
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https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1629485577530748928 T-55 Obr.2023 when?
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Feb 26, 2023 21:30
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:i thought your channel was on terrible shirts
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Feb 26, 2023 21:33
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McNally posted:Now I'm starting to worry what kinds of things I'm lumped in with through the aLgOrItHm In my case; British muzzleloader & capandball are your compadres most of the time... the ones regarding fermented vegetables and ship history are my problem. 
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Feb 26, 2023 21:33
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:i thought your channel was on terrible shirts You have to be right-side up to see them properly.
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Feb 26, 2023 21:34
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The Azov that exists in Russian propaganda and the arguments of international fellow travelers is basically fiction. That Azov caused the current war by forcing Zelenskyy into it and as an organized paramilitary paralyzed the Ukrainian state while Nazis did as they pleased. Azov were very nazi when they were formed, recruiting heavily from right-wing affinity networks. You couldn't be too anti-semitic though because their funder was a Jewish oligarch which led to some members being thrown out. Still, Azov remained pretty nazi during and for a time after the 2014 war. IIRC the founder left the military hoping to ride a tide of rising right-wing authoritarianism to political power but that didn't go well ( a bit lol for the propagandized narrative.) The politicized nature of the group softened dramatically as they were more closely integrated with the regular military, had regular officers transferred in, recruited more widely from the region rather than just from rightwing facebook,etc. ; they basically became a regional unit that still had a lot of Nazis in it. Which isn't great, but they weren't the armed wing of the Nazi party or anything. Then they all got killed or captured or wounded defending Mariupol, and the unit that was Azov isn't even that anymore.
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Feb 26, 2023 21:34
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Aren't Wagner also really Nazi? I mean, it's not like every side gets to have Nazi parity but it seems to make the entire criticism a farce. Which of course is some of the point of whatabout-ism...
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Feb 26, 2023 21:39
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Yeah Wagner has some mega Nazis, the pretence that the war is about denazification is propaganda.
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Feb 26, 2023 21:42
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Nessus posted:Aren't Wagner also really Nazi? I mean, it's not like every side gets to have Nazi parity but it seems to make the entire criticism a farce. Which of course is some of the point of whatabout-ism... Yes, so are the groups in charge of the separatist regions. And a "funny" moment was when, days before the war, somebody came to the Eastern Europe thread in D&D with a list of banned pro-Russian political groups in Ukraine to demonstrate that Ukraine was a tyrant state that was opposing its Russian minority... And all of those groups were sonnenrad wearing jackbooted Nazis with programmes that boiled down to "we want to complete the work the Soviets left unfinished in the 30s"
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Feb 26, 2023 21:44
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Nessus posted:Aren't Wagner also really Nazi? I mean, it's not like every side gets to have Nazi parity but it seems to make the entire criticism a farce. Which of course is some of the point of whatabout-ism... Maybe not Nazi but carrying a lot (all) of the characteristics. I was under the impression there was a lot of pressure on Ukraine to distances themselves from the Azov extremism by their foreign partners which subsequently happened, to a greater or lesser extent.
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Feb 26, 2023 21:45
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mikerock posted:Isn't Azov a totally different organisation now than it used to be? My understanding is that it was definitely ultra-nationalist when it was raised as a volunteer battalion after the Crimean annexation and the Donbas invasion/insurgency in 2014, but it was brought into the regular forces, reorganised, and purged of the far-right elements a few years later. It's pretty much a mixture of what you're saying and what Soul Dentist posted. You've got the origins down and there was a reorganisation when they were absorbed, but there wasn't a "legit" purge, so some of the hardliners were definitely still part of the regiment/in leadership positions. Then, what SD posted came about and there was a large influx of volunteers before the invasion and especially during the siege of Mariupol on account of locals sticking it out and giving a solid finger, but ultimately the majority of Azov was encircled and slowly decimated to de facto non-existence as a military unit, with the survivors getting shuttled out in POW buses during the PR campaign that ensued. Iirc, there was a reasonably-significant prisoner exchange that saw a bunch of Azov survivors returning to Ukraine, which surprised me, because i had anticipated not a single one of them coming back alive with the Russian narrative of "denazification" being pushed. tl;dr: yes, Neonazi hardliners and hangers-on cosplayers were a part of the Azov membership/leadership, but the regiment got completely decimated and the tough-rear end sonsabitches that muscled through the absolutely miserable siege/encirclement probably weren't the kind that were kissing their Sig-rune patches before going to sleep, and - at this point - anyone in the media trying to paint the survivors as a systemic problem of Ukraine is doing so in bad faith. You'll find more card-carrying Neonazis in random eastern-German villages or Alabama than in what Azov is today /edit: vvv also this Duzzy Funlop fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Feb 26, 2023 |
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Feb 26, 2023 21:45
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:The Azov that exists in Russian propaganda and the arguments of international fellow travelers is basically fiction. That Azov caused the current war by forcing Zelenskyy into it and as an organized paramilitary paralyzed the Ukrainian state while Nazis did as they pleased. And at this point, Russia and Wagner have demonstrated that hey have a much larger Nazi problem regardless.
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Feb 26, 2023 21:48
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:The Azov that exists in Russian propaganda and the arguments of international fellow travelers is basically fiction. That Azov caused the current war by forcing Zelenskyy into it and as an organized paramilitary paralyzed the Ukrainian state while Nazis did as they pleased. Besides, it's not a particularly large formation that never had a significant number of seats in the parliament, afaik there's been attempts to gain track, but the outcomes were meagre. There's not even a notable right wing party in the parliament like in most european countries as of now. If somebody comes up with "Nazi problems in Ukraine", ask that person to point to the number of seats they hold in parliament.
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Feb 26, 2023 21:51
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Well, the Russians actually did treat the Azov prisoners worse than normal. For starters, they machine gunned/ fragged a bunch in a massacre which they then tried to blame on a Ukrainian artillery strike. Then those who were exchanged were in such terrible condition, it looked like they were liberated from a German concentration camp. One of the higher profile swapped POWs died recently due to health complications caused by the malnutrition he had suffered in captivity.
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Feb 26, 2023 21:52
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CommieGIR posted:And at this point, Russia and Wagner have demonstrated that hey have a much larger Nazi problem regardless. The existence and acceptance of the Rusich Group in particular makes any Russian claims about denazification pretty transparently false.
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Feb 26, 2023 21:52
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steinrokkan posted:Well, the Russians actually did treat the Azov prisoners worse than normal. For starters, they machine gunned/ fragged a bunch in a massacre which they then tried to blame on a Ukrainian artillery strike. Then those who were exchanged were in such terrible condition, it looked like they were liberated from a German concentration camp. One of the higher profile swapped POWs died recently due to health complications caused by the malnutrition he had suffered in captivity. I suspect this is going to be a lot more common than just Azov people. We already know the Russians are outright murdering some POWs, disappearing others, and torturing. Azov was just the flavor of the week. Doubling down on warcrimes is practically Russia's M.O. at this point.
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Feb 26, 2023 21:56
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CommieGIR posted:And at this point, Russia and Wagner have demonstrated that hey have a much larger Nazi problem regardless. Plus you have to keep in mind that in Russian politics, "Nazi" is equal to "anti-Russian", which is wildly different to how the term is used in the West, fundamentally linked to anti-Semitism and the Holocaust. Hence calling Zelenskyy a Nazi isn't incoherent in Russia, while it's patently incoherent in, say, Paris or London or Washington.
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Feb 26, 2023 21:56
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Wow. I remember seeing Karl around Ian for the first time in his German camo, talking up German WW2 equipment and touting his German heritage and thinking that he would be a chud. Over time, I learned he's a good dude, and I'm happy to have been proven wrong.
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Feb 26, 2023 21:56
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Power Khan posted:Besides, it's not a particularly large formation that never had a significant number of seats in the parliament, afaik there's been attempts to gain track, but the outcomes were meagre. There's not even a notable right wing party in the parliament like in most european countries as of now. If somebody comes up with "Nazi problems in Ukraine", ask that person to point to the number of seats they hold in parliament. Yeah, last I checked it was....1 seat. Of 450.
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Feb 26, 2023 21:57
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I don't know which specific Ukrainian units were doing it, but I've seen some of their tanks with the painted white cross identifier changed to be a straight up Balkenkreuz. Not great optics, imo. Though at a certain point it does seem a bit pointless to optics-police the state which has been invaded and is actively having their children stolen and culture suppressed in the occupied areas.
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Feb 26, 2023 21:57
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Def Mon evening update. There's been some posts about a counterattack in the north of Bakhmut, but I don't think this is confirmed in any way. https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1629926468825300993
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Feb 26, 2023 21:59
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Generation Internet posted:I don't know which specific Ukrainian units were doing it, but I've seen some of their tanks with the painted white cross identifier changed to be a straight up Balkenkreuz. Not great optics, imo. Optics heh https://twitter.com/PaulJawin/status/1629416456059330560
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Feb 26, 2023 22:02
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CommieGIR posted:Yeah, last I checked it was....1 seat. Of 450. Yeah, and that's National Corps, which is a coalition formed by the former head of Azov who got booted out of the unit because you can't serve the government and be in the military at the same time. If I remember right, he also got in legal trouble over some real estate.
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Feb 26, 2023 22:03
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Do we know much about how these prisoner swaps are even organized? From what I've read about those that have been publicized, they feel a bit like they are in Ukraine's favor with Russia getting comparatively fewer of their guys in return for how many they release, and I'm having difficulty imagining why they Russian government would feel like they are getting a good trade. Is it likely just local Russian commanders offering up however prisoners they have on hand in the hope of getting a few Russian POWs they happen to care about released?
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Feb 26, 2023 22:04
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Generation Internet posted:I don't know which specific Ukrainian units were doing it, but I've seen some of their tanks with the painted white cross identifier changed to be a straight up Balkenkreuz. Not great optics, imo. I think you mean the Cossack Cross, which has been used a lot in the Ukraine conflict. Its been used as a defacto Ukrainian unit identifier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossack_cross quote:During the ongoing Russo-Ukrainian War, Ukrainian forces have marked their vehicles with both the aforementioned Wehrmacht and the Cossack Cross. While the simplified Cossack Cross used in combat is visually similar to the Balkenkreuz, the Cossack Cross can be distinguished by its lack of "flanks" and is instead a solid white cross with no negative space within the arms, such as the white crosses used by German armoured vehicles during the Invasion of Poland.
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Feb 26, 2023 22:07
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Nessus posted:Aren't Wagner also really Nazi? I mean, it's not like every side gets to have Nazi parity but it seems to make the entire criticism a farce. Which of course is some of the point of whatabout-ism...
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Feb 26, 2023 22:14
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Generation Internet posted:I don't know which specific Ukrainian units were doing it, but I've seen some of their tanks with the painted white cross identifier changed to be a straight up Balkenkreuz. Not great optics, imo. You're getting things confused on two levels: the Balkenkreuz is a specific version of the Iron Cross, which is not flared like Cossack Cross you're mistaking for it. The Iron Cross is not a neo-Nazi symbol and is the current emblem of the modern German army.
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Feb 26, 2023 22:24
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Nessus posted:Aren't Wagner also really Nazi? I mean, it's not like every side gets to have Nazi parity but it seems to make the entire criticism a farce. Which of course is some of the point of whatabout-ism... https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/putin-nazi-pretext-russia-war-ukraine-belied-white-supremacy-ties-rcna23043 quote:The Wagner Group is named after the 19th century German composer Richard Wagner, whose music Adolf Hitler adored. The group’s leader, Dmitry Utkin, reportedly wears Nazi tattoos, including a swastika, a Nazi eagle and SS lightning bolts. Wagner mercenaries are reported to have left behind neo-Nazi propaganda in the war zones where they’ve fought, including graffiti with hate symbols. The group is literally named after a composer closely associated with Nazi marches, and who expressed antisematism later in his life. quote:Wagner's hostile writings on Jews, including Jewishness in Music, correspond to some existing trends of thought in Germany during the 19th century.[255] Despite his very public views on this topic, throughout his life Wagner had Jewish friends, colleagues and supporters.[256][257] There have been frequent suggestions that antisemitic stereotypes are represented in Wagner's operas. The characters of Alberich and Mime in the Ring, Sixtus Beckmesser in Die Meistersinger, and Klingsor in Parsifal are sometimes claimed as Jewish representations, though they are not identified as such in the librettos of these operas.[258][n 23] The topic is further complicated by claims, which may have been credited by Wagner, that he himself was of Jewish ancestry, via his supposed father Geyer. However, there is no evidence that Geyer had Jewish ancestors.[259][260] When your whole group is named after a guy chiefly associated with Nazi marches and Racism/Antisemitism, they just might be Nazis. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Feb 26, 2023 |
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Feb 26, 2023 22:24
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Pablo Bluth posted:One of the founders is reportedly Dmitry Utkin, who just happens to have Waffen-SS collar tattoos on his neck. It would be like if an American political party passionately embraced the symbols of a defeated rebel movement!
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Feb 26, 2023 22:26
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Jarmak posted:You're getting things confused on two levels: the Balkenkreuz is a specific version of the Iron Cross, which is not flared like Cossack Cross you're mistaking for it. The Iron Cross is not a neo-Nazi symbol and is the current emblem of the modern German army. That only proves that all westerners are secret homonazis
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Feb 26, 2023 22:26
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Power Khan posted:Def Mon evening update. There's been some posts about a counterattack in the north of Bakhmut, but I don't think this is confirmed in any way. Def mon needs to be left in the gbs thread. I dont understand why kitconstantine was so obsessed with him, he comes across as a douchebag and is unfunny as gently caress, especially when his posts are """sponsored""" by the opposition.
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Feb 26, 2023 22:32
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Nessus posted:It would be like if an American political party passionately embraced the symbols of a defeated rebel movement! 
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