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Psikotik
Dec 17, 2002

Random more like ranDUMB
College Slice
Had a match completely disappear from the Snap.fan website tracker, couldn't even go back to review it because it was snapped out of existence by ascii Thanos. Not sure how that happens.

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Snazzy Frocks
Mar 31, 2003

Scratchmo
i like that every time both i and the opponent drop daredevil on 2 theres a spiderman emote exchange

Hot Dog Day #82
Jul 5, 2003

Soiled Meat
I was watching Jeff Hoogland today on twitch while I was at work, and he logged off in mid frustration during his stream about the state of the game. It was my first time really watching hjm, but it feels like the game in a weird spot if the content creators are turning on it :/

LGD
Sep 25, 2004

Hot Dog Day #82 posted:

I was watching Jeff Hoogland today on twitch while I was at work, and he logged off in mid frustration during his stream about the state of the game. It was my first time really watching hjm, but it feels like the game in a weird spot if the content creators are turning on it :/

not really, I mean it's not a good sign or anything and is bad in aggregate (and I'm not making claims about the overall health of Snap) but it also doesn't mean much if anything for any individual content creator who plays a game as something of a full time job to ragequit a single stream given burnout/playing on tilt/changing metas not favoring preferred strategies or play-patterns/incentives for people responding to that content/etc.

BoldFace
Feb 28, 2011

Hot Dog Day #82 posted:

I was watching Jeff Hoogland today on twitch while I was at work, and he logged off in mid frustration during his stream about the state of the game. It was my first time really watching hjm, but it feels like the game in a weird spot if the content creators are turning on it :/

I wouldn't draw conclusions from that alone. As I understand, he had bit of a reputation as an obnoxious streamer and persona even back in his MtG days.

buffalo all day
Mar 13, 2019

Hot Dog Day #82 posted:

I was watching Jeff Hoogland today on twitch while I was at work, and he logged off in mid frustration during his stream about the state of the game. It was my first time really watching hjm, but it feels like the game in a weird spot if the content creators are turning on it :/

lol I just watched this since you mentioned it. he signed off because a guy playing brood and groot galactused him. not exactly an oppressive meta deck. was pretty funny tbh

GarudaPrime
May 19, 2006

THE PANTS ARE FANCY!

Ubersandwich posted:

I wonder if they are going to introduce a "true ladder" mode, where you just play people at your rank. No regards for CL or recent wins or matchmaking formulas, just play at (or around) your rank. Obviously they only know if there are enough people to support such a mode. As more of the player base has a collection above 600 CL, a true ranked mode may be more fun or at least interesting to see. Didn't they mention something about different competitive modes in the works?

I have almost no experience playing competitive collectable card games online or in person, so I'm not sure if this is an idea that has been tried and shown to not work before.

Tian a developer for the game and more specifically a designer for the matchmaker and bot AI, did a really informal interview/hangout with a streamer (Dera) a few days ago and dropped some truly interesting things about matchmaking (along with a bunch of other really interesting things).

He was asked specifically why they have MMR instead of rank as the primary determiner (after CL no longer applies) instead of just using your rank.

I have to paraphrase a bit (and encourage you to track down the actual vod) but basically his response was:

There are trade offs. Specifically using just your rank to matchmake makes below average players feel worse as they will "get stuck" at a lower rank, average players will also get stuck at a certain rank as well. Decoupling rank and MMR is only good for better then average players, who will climb more quickly to their actual rank.
Decoupling rank and MMR creates an incentive to not play the first half of a season as your competition will be softer later in a season when less skilled players finally climb to your current rank and better players have climbed out of it.
He agrees the current system isn't tuned right and will probably implement a hearthstone system which uses weighted MMR for matching at lower ranks but gradually drops off towards the top ranks where your rank will matter more then your MMR.
Also you can't get matched more then three ranks above or below your current rank, so an infinite player can't ever be matched with a player below 70.

What it really highlights is that matchmaking and ladder play are about making players feel a certain way first and foremost and then about actually determining "skill" at the game.

He dropped really interesting stats too.
50% of players are rank 40 and below
4-5% of players are rank 80 and above
1% of players are infinate.
(those numbers are for players who play 30+ games a season and are last seasons stats)

He was also asked point blank about "MMR tanking" at infinite and said he had a solution for the problem and seemed genuinely annoyed people could do it currently. However he also said given how few players are infinite and how few of those are actually MMR tanking it wasn't a priority (I may be paraphrasing this part to much)

He also confirmed the matchmaker cant see your deck and that bots don't cheat by inventing cards they cheat by knowing your play ahead of time.

GarudaPrime fucked around with this message at 22:47 on Feb 27, 2023

Hot Dog Day #82
Jul 5, 2003

Soiled Meat

BoldFace posted:

I wouldn't draw conclusions from that alone. As I understand, he had bit of a reputation as an obnoxious streamer and persona even back in his MtG days.

Oh for sure! I’m sure it’s only a tiny sliver of the games population that even watches those twitch streamers. Still, it was the first time I’ve seen one that just gave up suddenly like that haha. I don’t know, it was very odd and I have no one else to share it with than you goons here.

Mr Beens
Dec 2, 2006

Hot Dog Day #82 posted:

I was watching Jeff Hoogland today on twitch while I was at work, and he logged off in mid frustration during his stream about the state of the game. It was my first time really watching hjm, but it feels like the game in a weird spot if the content creators are turning on it :/

A lot of the streamers who haven't gone all in on Snap are iffy on the long term health of the game and the monetisation. Zeddy has released multiple scathing videos on it during and after the beta. Regiskilbin also.

I'm not sure Snap is a good "streamers" game? They are all putting out content based on 90% collections, showing off decks that most of their audience can't run or aim for in any way.
I enjoy the game, but can't imagine getting any joy out of watching someone else play. Plus watching whales use cards that are 6 months or so away from me getting them just highlights the grind even more.

Snazzy Frocks
Mar 31, 2003

Scratchmo
can bots have titles? i noticed most of the ones in s2 land didn't

RevKrule
Jul 9, 2001

Thrilling the forums since 2001

buffalo all day posted:

lol I just watched this since you mentioned it. he signed off because a guy playing brood and groot galactused him. not exactly an oppressive meta deck. was pretty funny tbh

I'm in a bad place mentally with the game right now but I don't get how you can get that upset about this. It seems like the smart move considering every other Galactus deck telegraphs the play a mile away. Isn't the name of the game, especially at high levels, to mask your major play as best as possible to get the win? Sounds like the guy disguised his Galactus deck as a Surfer deck, that or maybe one of the random card givers gave him Galactus and they saw the chance to surprise for the maximum amount of cubes they could.

Either way, I can't be mad at that play.

goferchan
Feb 8, 2004

It's 2006. I am taking 276 yeti furs from the goodies hoard.

buffalo all day posted:

theres no programming for ego/agatha, their moves are entirely random with the exception that agatha will always play herself when it's possible

I think the only other consistency is that they will keep playing cards until you run out of energy (but not necessarily use all your energy efficiently). So if you have Lizard, Storm, Jubilee in hand and Ego plays Lizard it will always also play Storm. But it might just play Jubilee first and float one energy.

flatluigi
Apr 23, 2008

here come the planes

BoldFace posted:

I wouldn't draw conclusions from that alone. As I understand, he had bit of a reputation as an obnoxious streamer and persona even back in his MtG days.

yeah, hoogland honks, don't count him as representative for anything

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?



There are definitely days where I just get my rear end kicked repeatedly no matter if I switch decks every game, it just seems to happen

However, that is not the norm and more of the exception

buffalo all day
Mar 13, 2019

RevKrule posted:

I'm in a bad place mentally with the game right now but I don't get how you can get that upset about this. It seems like the smart move considering every other Galactus deck telegraphs the play a mile away. Isn't the name of the game, especially at high levels, to mask your major play as best as possible to get the win? Sounds like the guy disguised his Galactus deck as a Surfer deck, that or maybe one of the random card givers gave him Galactus and they saw the chance to surprise for the maximum amount of cubes they could.

Either way, I can't be mad at that play.

it’s worth a watch honestly, hoogland is playing this terrible bast darkhawk bounce deck and flailing cards around and then the other dude plays wave and snaps with an empty lane and hoogland just like plows ahead and says “if the brood groot deck galactus’s me I’m signing off” and then yup the card plops down on the empty lane and the stream ends

Toozler
Jan 12, 2012

I mean, props to him for keeping his word

A man's gotta have a code

Dr Intergalactic
Apr 21, 2010

CRASH!
:sharpton:
AGAIN!

GarudaPrime posted:


He also confirmed the matchmaker cant see your deck and that bots don't cheat by inventing cards they cheat by knowing your play ahead of time.


As I suspected.

Bottom Liner
Feb 15, 2006


a specific vein of lasagna

Toozler posted:


A manchild's gotta have a code

RevKrule
Jul 9, 2001

Thrilling the forums since 2001

buffalo all day posted:

it’s worth a watch honestly, hoogland is playing this terrible bast darkhawk bounce deck and flailing cards around and then the other dude plays wave and snaps with an empty lane and hoogland just like plows ahead and says “if the brood groot deck galactus’s me I’m signing off” and then yup the card plops down on the empty lane and the stream ends

Just watches this. Yeah, it reads like a Surfer deck even with Wave and his opponent just got a perfect clean out this location of cards. Opponent just outplayed him and it just reads like a rage quit when he signs off.

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

RevKrule posted:

Just watches this. Yeah, it reads like a Surfer deck even with Wave and his opponent just got a perfect clean out this location of cards. Opponent just outplayed him and it just reads like a rage quit when he signs off.
Putting galactus in dumb random decks is outplay?

quite stretched out
Feb 17, 2011

the chillest
getting a destroyer from the hub and the other guy turn 5 morph copying it is possibly my favourite interaction ive ever had in this game so far

Youremother
Dec 26, 2011

MORT

Funniest thing that happens in this game is someone plays a Nova on the middle or right location turn one, location revealed and it's Wakanda, and they instantly concede. This keeps on happening to me.

the_american_dream
Apr 12, 2008

GAHDAMN

No Wave posted:

Putting galactus in dumb random decks is outplay?

Could be surfer or Galactus with a backup plan

the_american_dream
Apr 12, 2008

GAHDAMN

Mr Beens posted:

A lot of the streamers who haven't gone all in on Snap are iffy on the long term health of the game and the monetisation. Zeddy has released multiple scathing videos on it during and after the beta. Regiskilbin also.

I'm not sure Snap is a good "streamers" game? They are all putting out content based on 90% collections, showing off decks that most of their audience can't run or aim for in any way.
I enjoy the game, but can't imagine getting any joy out of watching someone else play. Plus watching whales use cards that are 6 months or so away from me getting them just highlights the grind even more.

Seems like an awful game to stream monetary wise but depending on the streamer it’s not bad to watch. I’ve figured out that I have way more fun and climb more when I’m done with work and not sober so I’ll turn on bynx or teddy Freddybabes and sometimes specimen in the background while working

PJOmega
May 5, 2009

buffalo all day posted:

theres no programming for ego/agatha, their moves are entirely random with the exception that agatha will always play herself when it's possible

Even that isn't guaranteed. I don't have the details since I was on the other side, but I played Wave on 3 across from their Electro. They started spamming confused emotes on 4, and played nothing. Turn 5 comes around and Agatha drops, much to my surprise and confusion.

Quackles
Aug 11, 2018

Pixels of Light.


Fate Accomplice posted:

how do max quality cards affect boosters?

if I make a deck with 11 maxed out cards do all the boosters go to the 12th?

You can get boosters for max quality cards. The split system means they can safely assume that your Infinity-quality card begat a shinier Common.

the_american_dream
Apr 12, 2008

GAHDAMN
Gonna suck a bit playing against Kang without my own. But my turn 5/6 in the decks I main are what they are if I draw correctly so whatever. Try and stop me fuckers

GateOfD
Jan 31, 2023

So kawaii..
after hitting 100 for a few seasons i took a long break and knocked back down to lv10
kind of neat to arrive in a whole new meta world

Twisted Eye
Jan 6, 2011
Literally two games in a row today, I had Collector and Morbius on the table, MODOK in hand, Bar Sinister ready to roll...and no Swarm in sight. Stop teasing me Game!

On the other hand, I won my next game against a guy whose entire turn six was throwing Taskmaster down on Knowhere (the Cosmo-like location) so I can't complain too much

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


I finally finally ground my way up to 70, which is my benchmark goal for the season. I have a hunch (let’s call it healthy optimism) that I have a decently high MMR cuz I play against what appear very high skill level players. Since matchmaking is tied to MMR not rank, is it basically going to be a progressively more difficult grind going forward? My snapping game is not as good as my card game, for what it’s worth.

buffalo all day
Mar 13, 2019

Sandwolf posted:

I finally finally ground my way up to 70, which is my benchmark goal for the season. I have a hunch (let’s call it healthy optimism) that I have a decently high MMR cuz I play against what appear very high skill level players. Since matchmaking is tied to MMR not rank, is it basically going to be a progressively more difficult grind going forward? My snapping game is not as good as my card game, for what it’s worth.

I didn’t think it changed much from 70-100 one way or the other except that folks in the 90s are pretty careful and apt to retreat more

Bottom Liner
Feb 15, 2006


a specific vein of lasagna

Sandwolf posted:

I finally finally ground my way up to 70, which is my benchmark goal for the season. I have a hunch (let’s call it healthy optimism) that I have a decently high MMR cuz I play against what appear very high skill level players. Since matchmaking is tied to MMR not rank, is it basically going to be a progressively more difficult grind going forward? My snapping game is not as good as my card game, for what it’s worth.

Devs said this week that 70 is when you hit the pool that includes infinite players.

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Bottom Liner posted:

Devs said this week that 70 is when you hit the pool that includes infinite players.

I’ve been playing, in large part, players who made infinite last season (they got that card back).

DrBouvenstein
Feb 28, 2007

I think I'm a doctor, but that doesn't make me a doctor. This fancy avatar does.
I got up to like 82/83 early last week, and by Sunday I was down to 71, and an annoyingly high number of decks beating me were Shuri->Red Skull ->Taskmaster.

Hard to counter. A couple times I got lucky with a Cosmo predicting the lane they played Shuri in, or the rare time they had priority and I could put a Shang-Chi down, but man, unlike almost everyone else I am PRAYING for that Shuri nerf.

But since I just got Black Panther from the token shop, I suspect he'll get nerfed first... probably just give him a flat +4 on reveal, not a double?

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!
Shuri usually isn't usually run with Black Panther. He's also generally not a candidate for a nerf. I'd appreciate a shuri nerf because running Aero+Shang Chi in everything (or else instalosing to shuri) is not very interesting.

buffalo all day
Mar 13, 2019

Not sure how you beat the full cosmo->shuri->red skull->taskmaster combo but then again that’s the absolute nut draw and good decks should win if they get the perfect draw

Ed: magneto on 5 to draw off cosmo?

buffalo all day fucked around with this message at 02:20 on Feb 28, 2023

No Wave
Sep 18, 2005

HA! HA! NICE! WHAT A TOOL!

buffalo all day posted:

Not sure how you beat the full cosmo->shuri->red skull->taskmaster combo but then again that’s the absolute nut draw and good decks should win if they get the perfect draw

Ed: magneto on 5 to draw off cosmo?
You aero the red skull then shang it if you have prio. You can also aero the red skull and cosmo the non-cosmo'd lane but that loses to a lot.

No Wave fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Feb 28, 2023

Studio
Jan 15, 2008



buffalo all day posted:

Not sure how you beat the full cosmo->shuri->red skull->taskmaster combo but then again that’s the absolute nut draw and good decks should win if they get the perfect draw

Ed: magneto on 5 to draw off cosmo?

Imo Aero + 1 Drop is usually better than Taskmaster

GateOfD
Jan 31, 2023

So kawaii..
spider-women sure turned into an amazing card

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Snazzy Frocks
Mar 31, 2003

Scratchmo
I don't like that taskmaster can scan a dead card and still get the buffed state it died as

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