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I've never minded going through old areas in a Metroidvania, enemies from areas older than the previous one or two tend to explode when you look at them funny, and unlike a turn-based JRPG there's no separate "battle screen" with its own intros and end screens to break up the flow.
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Feb 22, 2023 08:50
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The closest I can think of are the Souls style ones where everything stays dead until you hit a bonfire equivalent.
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Feb 22, 2023 09:14
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if you want to avoid having to oneshot tons of trash enemies as you backtrack back and forth, what you're really looking for is a fast-travel system
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Feb 22, 2023 09:18
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Item Getter posted:Do any games in this genre make enemies in previously visited areas eventually stop spawning? It kind of seems like a common issue with these games that you eventually get tired of fighting the same groups of enemies every time while backtracking looking for items and such. Or a passive ability to make weaker enemies stop appearing like some JRPGs with random encounters have. Late-game super powered abilities like Screw Attack that trivialize most enemies aren't exactly the same thing since they still require a minimal level of engagement. Part of the idea of putting extensive backtracking in the game is to use going through old areas as a way to extend the amount of gameplay without having to make entirely new areas, so ideally it'd be fun to go through old areas after a while of being away. It does get particularly annoying towards the Castlevania end of things though, where they really like making transit through long hallways into a war of attrition, a marathon through a gauntlet. I think there are some games where earlier areas get all the old enemies killed by story events leaving them spookily quiet, but I don't remember specifically which ones. Often it's the other way around where lategame enemies pop up in old areas to refresh things. Sakurazuka posted:The closest I can think of are the Souls style ones where everything stays dead until you hit a bonfire equivalent. Technically in Dark Souls if you go far enough away from an area where you killed some enemies, they will respawn without you resting at a bonfire, but the fact that the game is hard and the world puts so many areas closer together with shortcuts makes it hard to notice.
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Feb 22, 2023 16:10
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In Dark Souls II eventually enemies stop spawning if you kill them enough (like 10 - 15 times) and you have to use an item to bring them back at a bonfire which bumps them up to the next difficulty level. But that's more explicitly a "make it easier to ram your head into the boss" mechanic than anything.
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Feb 22, 2023 16:20
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Feldegast42 posted:In Dark Souls II eventually enemies stop spawning if you kill them enough (like 10 - 15 times) and you have to use an item to bring them back at a bonfire which bumps them up to the next difficulty level. But that's more explicitly a "make it easier to ram your head into the boss" mechanic than anything. It's also a "lol gently caress your farming" mechanic.
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Feb 22, 2023 16:36
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You can just turn on Covenant of Champions to fix that tho. But admittedly I don't think anyone ever conclusively datamined to figure out if CoC fucks with drop rates the way it feels like it does...
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Feb 22, 2023 17:56
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In Alwa's Legacy, I accidentally killed the dad in the Sylvan Temple by drowning him. I feel bad.
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Feb 23, 2023 11:17
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Yeah that made me stop playing the game lol not even sure if there's a way to save him.
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Feb 23, 2023 11:26
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I believe there is, but if you accidentally kill him, you can get the necromancer to resurrect him.
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Feb 23, 2023 15:25
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I've been playing Psychonauts 2 (really stretching it to call it a Metroidvania, as revisiting levels with new abilities isn't required to progress.) But it made me remember why I loved the original and something that's lacking from most Metroidvanias, each level is so creative and different. Forest, desert, swamp, sewer/ dungeon, volcano/ forge, icy tundra - sound familiar? So many developers are hamstrung by the same biomes/ areas and it's sad to see. It's a videogame, it can be whatever you can think of.
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Feb 23, 2023 16:42
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I've been binging metroidvanias lately, mostly due to not having been able to upgrade my gpu for 9 years, so I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents. Been playing Ato. It's a pretty decent little game with a focus on 1v1 sword duels. Compact map, fun upgrades, good waypointing. You can complete it in a couple of sittings. Very chill (except when it's not.) I laughed when you finally get the sword that you've been building up to the entire game and it does absolutely nothing! Better than a lot of the crap I've tried out lately. Ghost Song. Janky controls, awful checkpointing, horrible combat. Shame because I really like shooty metroidvanias. Dark Light - this just didn't vibe with me at all. Felt like I was playing a poo poo, 2D diablo 2 type game. Elderand. boring and you can't stagger enemies at all. Phoenotopia. Anime verbal diarrhea. Gave up before I got to the main part of the game. Super Gear Quest: not my thing at all. Didn't find it funny or endearing Outbuddies DX - You expect a certain amount of ugly with these games but this was just too much. Depths of Sanity - jesus, if you play all fps games with the walk button held down this is the metroidvania for you. Slow, ugly, simplistic map, agravating enemies and poo poo upgrades. Metroidvanias's I've loved recently. Islets - movement felt joyful and exploration was very satisfying. Axiom Verge - just all round solid. the drone might be my favourite upgrade in any metroildvania. Grime - feels like more like a 2D souls but it scratches that itch and the combat is very well implemented. Sundered - I know many people were cool on this when it came out but the randomisation really doesn't matter and the core loop, once you get some upgrades is very fun. You don't need to be scared of the hordes for long and the combat is very satisfying. Unsighted - this is just loving rad. Once you get the hang of the (essential) parry system the game just flies. Steamworld Dig 2 - I loved this and didn't want to stop playing. But I had to. Because it's very short. Haiku The Robot - Best in class map design, progression, secrets and world building. Loved it and wanted 2-3x more! Edit: phew, that was a big edit! Spermanent Record fucked around with this message at 15:39 on Feb 27, 2023 |
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Feb 27, 2023 15:12
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Beat steamworld Dig and steamworld Dig 2. Highly recommend. I think HAAK is next
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Feb 27, 2023 15:31
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RC Cola posted:Beat steamworld Dig and steamworld Dig 2. Highly recommend. I played/completed Steamworld Dig back in 2014 for 5.7 hours, and remember nothing of it other than it was 'meh' and I was really bored and desperate. Something about gemstones as you go down? Anyways, I assume the sequel is very different?
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Feb 27, 2023 21:44
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Serephina posted:I played/completed Steamworld Dig back in 2014 for 5.7 hours, and remember nothing of it other than it was 'meh' and I was really bored and desperate. Something about gemstones as you go down? Anyways, I assume the sequel is very different? Yeah its much better. 1 was ok. 2 was good and more of a metroidvania with sequence breaking and plot
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Feb 27, 2023 23:07
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Steamworld dig 2 was really good and I wish there was more of it
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Feb 28, 2023 00:52
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steamworld dig 2 was great. i wish the ending wasn't such a downer though 
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Feb 28, 2023 01:07
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Ciaphas posted:steamworld dig 2 was great. i wish the ending wasn't such a downer though It does lead directly into steamworld heist which is also good! Also HAAK is good so far. Any tips and tricks? Trying to play without a guide and have fun. Is it easy to 100% or not worth it?
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Feb 28, 2023 01:44
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HAAK gives you tools to 100% -- completion percentages, stuff marked on map (I think that requires upgrades? It's been a bit) -- but there is a lot of hidden stuff. I did 100% it, but what I did, and suggest you do, is get as close as you can and then consult a guide for the last little bits.
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Feb 28, 2023 03:25
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I found SteamWorld Dig 1 pretty fun, but of course it's not a full-on exploration game. You just go down further and further hunting for more resources. There are a couple of plot points that you might like before jumping into Steamworld Dig 2: TWIST: Actually 2 games came before Steamworld Dig 2, and the series originated as DS game with SteamWorld Tower Defense that I don't think you can even play anymore. That details the story of the development of Steambots that were originally built by humans to mine and protect their gold, but at some point that went awry because they wouldn't let humans who had grown lazy and indolent access any of the gold that they had been entrusted with. SteamWorld Tower Defense depicts their war against the humans as they try to attack the Steambots to get the gold. By the time of SteamWorld Dig, all humans had gone underground and lived as mutated "shiners". SteamWorld Dig is about Rusty inheriting his uncle's mine and digging and finding some strange technology to upgrade himself, and when he dug down far enough, he found Vectron, an abandoned world of devices powered by a mysterious force of "electricity", and an ancient supercomputer at the center of it all that had absorbed Rusty's uncle and lured Rusty there because it needed a steambot with a "powerful heart" to takeover and usher in a new age. Rusty killed Voltbot, but the final scene implies maybe he was tainted by Vectron technology? It's ambiguous. The game series has weird goal of being a new different genre for each game, and the one they're doing next is a game about managing a mine and workers. Ciaphas posted:steamworld dig 2 was great. i wish the ending wasn't such a downer though Not as down as you'd think. Not like Steambots need air to breathe.
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Feb 28, 2023 03:41
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I'm replaying Super Metroid and I've concluded that the best part of this game is the platforming/physics/kaizo mario aspect of it. The movement upgrades unlock new areas but most can be substituted with nightmare level walljumping. Are there any games that come close to replicating that? I haven't played that many indie metroidvanias, my sense is they mostly are of the igavania lineage and/or go for metroid tone and vibes rather than the physics per se like axiom verge
icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 09:04 on Feb 28, 2023 |
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Feb 28, 2023 08:59
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I think most titles since have been a bit more careful about sequence breaking, with very locked down movement patterns and any 'breaks' being very intentional. I can't think of any breaks off of the top of my head that aren't either condoned, or involve some very buggy behavior. For a similar-yet-different idea, where the sequence breaking comes from hindsight and/or acquired player skills, there's TUNIC which hides cleverly evil shortcuts in plain sight. But that's not a 'vania.
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Feb 28, 2023 09:20
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"Sequence breaking through player skill" is a good way of putting it, yes. That's almost more like a straight up platformer than anything else, hence kaizo mario
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Feb 28, 2023 11:20
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icantfindaname posted:I'm replaying Super Metroid and I've concluded that the best part of this game is the platforming/physics/kaizo mario aspect of it. The movement upgrades unlock new areas but most can be substituted with nightmare level walljumping. Are there any games that come close to replicating that? I haven't played that many indie metroidvanias, my sense is they mostly are of the igavania lineage and/or go for metroid tone and vibes rather than the physics per se like axiom verge Unsighted gets this, the entire game is designed to be sequence broken using advanced movement tech and alternate uses of equipment
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Feb 28, 2023 11:42
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icantfindaname posted:I'm replaying Super Metroid and I've concluded that the best part of this game is the platforming/physics/kaizo mario aspect of it. The movement upgrades unlock new areas but most can be substituted with nightmare level walljumping. Are there any games that come close to replicating that? I haven't played that many indie metroidvanias, my sense is they mostly are of the igavania lineage and/or go for metroid tone and vibes rather than the physics per se like axiom verge Metroid Dread, fittingly enough.
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Feb 28, 2023 13:13
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I have mixed feelings about Dread. Well, both of the Mercury Steam titles really. One thing I really appreciate about it though is that there's a sequence break that doesn't require any particular skill, but rather careful tracking of the map and your abilities and backtracking to earlier areas as soon as possible. If you do, you'll stumble across the orange teleporter which leads you to an item (pulse radar) you're intended to find later. The purpose of that item though is to facilitate searching for additional hidden items/paths. So the game explicitly rewards you for playing it breadth-first search. I thought it was really clever.
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Feb 28, 2023 16:16
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Trip report. HAAK is one of the best games I've ever played
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Feb 28, 2023 18:34
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The EMMIs really kill any desire to replay Dread for me. Their whole design just kind of sucks all the momentum out of the game for me.
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Feb 28, 2023 18:38
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RC Cola posted:Trip report. HAAK is one of the best games I've ever played I got a few hours into it, but the whole "this game is hard, git gud!" vibe the game was throwing out there really put me off.
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Feb 28, 2023 19:40
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Yeah the EMMIs wore out their welcome towards the end but they were pretty cool the first few times. My main issue with Dread was more that it lacked the shear atmosphere of Super or Prime, although mechanically the series has never been better.
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Feb 28, 2023 23:28
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Dread had too many interchangable zones without a strong personality and the EMMI encounters got the danger/consequence ratio the wrong way around (they should have been less bullshit to deal with but given you a normal death and reset to checkpoint if they did kill you) but overall it was still a pretty good time, at least as good as Fusion if not as perfectly formed as Super/Zero Mission
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Feb 28, 2023 23:35
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Yeah the big problem I had in Dread was the world never quite cohered together like I like Metroidvanias to do.
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Feb 28, 2023 23:36
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It's not strictly a metroidvania because nothing's locked behind upgrades, but Kandria is a very good open world 2D platformer that some people here will definitely go for.
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Mar 1, 2023 00:57
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RBA Starblade posted:The EMMIs really kill any desire to replay Dread for me. Their whole design just kind of sucks all the momentum out of the game for me. Conversely if you removed the SA-X from Fusion it would've changed the game's atmosphere tremendously.
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Mar 1, 2023 01:36
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If you watch a Speedrun of Dread and see how they handle the EMMIs you will change your tune. You just gotta get good.
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Mar 1, 2023 01:49
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Yeah by the time I was halfway through the game I was just straight up ignoring EMMIs - the sections they are in are devoid of anything necessary to collect while they're alive, so it's just beelining to a nearby door, stealth be damned.
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Mar 1, 2023 03:15
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RC Cola posted:Trip report. HAAK is one of the best games I've ever played What did you like about it? I played up to the first hub and it seemed good but not great. What changes?
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Mar 1, 2023 04:35
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Other than this thread, how do you folks keep up with metroidvania releases and news? I popped my head in here because it's one of my favorite genres and I'm seeing a bunch of stuff I haven't even heard of. I want to be aware of and have a big important opinion about every game in this genre past and future
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Mar 1, 2023 18:46
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I only started reading this thread recently, but it's probably a pretty good one-stop shop for keeping up with releases. There's a Metroidvania subreddit, but nobody agrees on how broad or narrow the genre definition should be, and reddit being reddit, it winds up being a mess, although I have found some gems in there. There are also various YouTube channels that specialize in the genre.
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Mar 1, 2023 19:00
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Manager Hoyden posted:Other than this thread, how do you folks keep up with metroidvania releases and news? I popped my head in here because it's one of my favorite genres and I'm seeing a bunch of stuff I haven't even heard of. I want to be aware of and have a big important opinion about every game in this genre past and future
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Mar 2, 2023 02:20
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