USCE Winter 2023: change thread titles constantly, almost on a daily basis

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE Winter 2023: change thread titles constantly, almost on a daily basis

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Civilized Fishbot: Apr 3, 2011

selec posted:

Fact-checking should be behind the scenes, a part of a journalistic process that should also be applied to Op Eds, which none of the institutions who have these public-facing fact checkers can be bothered to do, which tells me it�s an ideological exercise, not a journalistic one. YMMV on that assessment but when Bretbug can just publish lies as underpinnings to his arguments on the op ed page, lies specifically refuted by the reportage of the same institution he gets paid by, something isn�t working the way it should.

If you had Dale's job, what would you have done in response to MTG saying something which is obviously illogical (blaming the Biden administration for deaths that took place in 2020)?

I get that you're upset with a lot of what's labelled as fact-checking but I can't see any issue with what Dale specifically did - finding an inconsistency in what a politician says, contacting them to get an answer on the record, printing the inconsistency and the politician's answer.

# ? Mar 1, 2023 20:05

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 16:25

Mr. Fall Down Terror: Jan 24, 2018; by Fluffdaddy

selec posted:

Fact-checking should be behind the scenes, a part of a journalistic process that should also be applied to Op Eds, which none of the institutions who have these public-facing fact checkers can be bothered to do, which tells me it�s an ideological exercise, not a journalistic one.

jaxyon is correct, you are confused on the process of fact checking in journalism versus a fact check column

whether or not your perspective on fact checking is just institutional propaganda is correct, it is not relevant to ddale's tweet, in which he recounts how he called a congressional office to verify a quote and was told to gently caress off

# ? Mar 1, 2023 20:06

Jaxyon: Mar 7, 2016; I’m just saying I would like to see a man beat a woman in a cage. Just to be sure.

selec posted:

Fact-checking should be behind the scenes, a part of a journalistic process that should also be applied to Op Eds, which none of the institutions who have these public-facing fact checkers can be bothered to do, which tells me it�s an ideological exercise, not a journalistic one. YMMV on that assessment but when Bretbug can just publish lies as underpinnings to his arguments on the op ed page, lies specifically refuted by the reportage of the same institution he gets paid by, something isn�t working the way it should.

Literally all of the major papers do the behind the scenes fact checking, that's the part where you call up for comment.

That's literally the thing that happened here.

We get it, you're mad about the "5 pinnochios" form of fact checking. Nobody here likes that poo poo either, but lol at you going off on Dale of all people for doing boring journalism poo poo.

# ? Mar 1, 2023 20:06

Harold Fjord: Jan 3, 2004; Can't post for 48 hours!

Civilized Fishbot posted:

If you had Dale's job, what would you have done in response to MTG saying something which is obviously illogical (blaming the Biden administration for deaths that took place in 2020)?

I get that you're upset with a lot of what's labelled as fact-checking but I can't see any issue with what Dale specifically did - finding an inconsistency in what a politician says, contacting them to get an answer on the record, printing the inconsistency and the politician's answer.

MTG is messaging on deaths that her constituents care about* (or that she thinks her constituents care about, this gets very fuzzy and we can't read intentions etc).

People who care about these deaths aren't concerned if a few of them are being misattributed illogically. We love pedantry here, but the common voter on the street finds a pedant to be annoying terrible and offputting. I think this part is more clearly correct and important:

selec posted:

This is just smart politics on Greene�s part. Her constituents want to tell these people to gently caress off.

# ? Mar 1, 2023 20:10

selec: Sep 6, 2003

Civilized Fishbot posted:

If you had Dale's job, what would you have done in response to MTG saying something which is obviously illogical (blaming the Biden administration for deaths that took place in 2020)?

I get that you're upset with a lot of what's labelled as fact-checking but I can't see any issue with what Dale specifically did - finding an inconsistency in what a politician says, contacting them to get an answer on the record, printing the inconsistency and the politician's answer.

I would never take Dale�s job because I don�t think it�s meaningful, and I think ultimately it�s a waste of resources at best, an actual impediment to good journalism at worst.

Dale�s job would also never be available to me because the system picks the type of people it needs to fill a role; it�s why you never see a leftist CEO, but the country is littered with reactionary social workers. Qualifications for elite journalism are as much about �fit� for the purpose of the system, moreso I would argue than actual qualifications. Do we really think rich dilettantes make amazing diplomats, or is there a reason other than their qualifications they end up in those roles, regardless of their knowledge of the language and culture, or even any meaningful experience in the field?

The system decides what the administrators of the system should be. It�s an impossibility for it to be otherwise. You might as well be asking what I�d do if I woke up to discover I was a unicorn.

But yeah, overall smart politics to beat up on lanyards for her. It wouldn�t play in Raytheon Acres but those people have different values than her constituents, and need a different kind of service. Tlaib is another great example of a politician who really knows what her constituents want her to say/how they want to feel about her and gives it to them.

selec fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Mar 1, 2023

# ? Mar 1, 2023 20:11

Civilized Fishbot: Apr 3, 2011

Harold Fjord posted:

MTG is messaging on deaths that her constituents care about* (or that she thinks her constituents care about, this gets very fuzzy and we can't read intentions etc).

People who care about these deaths aren't concerned if a few of them are being misattributed illogically. We love pedantry here, but the common voter on the street finds a pedant to be annoying terrible and offputting. I think this part is more clearly correct and important:

I disagree, I think we should have institutions in this country which prioritize unpopular or "pedantic" truths over popular or "feels true" lies.

# ? Mar 1, 2023 20:14

Harold Fjord: Jan 3, 2004; Can't post for 48 hours!

Unfortunately in political matters we cannot reasonably expect all the people we discuss to be as optimally refined as we are

# ? Mar 1, 2023 20:15

Judgy Fucker: Mar 24, 2006

Civilized Fishbot posted:

I disagree, I think we should have institutions in this country which prioritize unpopular or "pedantic" truths over popular or "feels true" lies.

Harold isn't saying we shouldn't, he's saying we do. Describing something is not necessarily an endorsement.

And since we live in a ~~democracy~~ democratic republic, how are we gonna give voters their unpopular pedantic truth medicine when those same people elect the ones who would dole it out?

# ? Mar 1, 2023 20:18

CuddleCryptid: Jan 11, 2013; Things could be going better

Isn't this all just a professional version of the truth we have all known for years, that it's far less effort to tell lies than to refute them?

The only functional way to deal with this situation is to just stop covering the problem entirely, which is not ethical in a journalistic sense and the fascists *know that*

# ? Mar 1, 2023 20:32

Civilized Fishbot: Apr 3, 2011

I just can't wrap my head around the idea that there is a problem with contacting an elected official when they say something inane or incorrect, and then publishing both the issue and their response.

The issues raised so far seem to be "other people claim to do the same thing but they're really doing ideology," "only privileged people get to do this as a job," and "I have imagined a voter who does not like this behavior." Which are reasonable complaints about the world but not good reasons to let politicians cheat the public.

# ? Mar 1, 2023 20:48

Aztec Galactus: Sep 12, 2002

Reminder that a nonzero number of Republicans blame Obama for Katrina

# ? Mar 1, 2023 21:16

DeadlyMuffin: Jul 3, 2007

Civilized Fishbot posted:

I just can't wrap my head around the idea that there is a problem with contacting an elected official when they say something inane or incorrect, and then publishing both the issue and their response.

The issues raised so far seem to be "other people claim to do the same thing but they're really doing ideology," "only privileged people get to do this as a job," and "I have imagined a voter who does not like this behavior." Which are reasonable complaints about the world but not good reasons to let politicians cheat the public.

I'm not going to comment on selec.

It makes sense for MTG if she operates under the belief that she knows what is best, and the end justifies the means. That's what she is doing. She doesn't care whether what she says is true or not, she cares about dunking on Biden, and outraging her voters because that's the best path to staying in the news (first priority) and to establishing a fascist government (second priority).

Democracy works to resist this when:
1. Voters give a gently caress about what's true or not
2. There are institutions in place call BS and actually publish what is true

# ? Mar 1, 2023 21:16

Bellmaker: Oct 18, 2008; Chapter DOOF

https://twitter.com/stacycayslays/status/1630601112846778368

So what would it take for Biden to send the National Guard down there? Because this is some apartheid poo poo.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/27/us/jackson-mississippi-capitol-criminal-justice-invs/index.html

quote:

The Mississippi criminal justice bill, which passed the state House of Representatives earlier this month, would create a new, separate court system in a district that includes Jackson�s downtown and a third of its residents. Judges and prosecutors in the district would be appointed by state government officials, encroaching on the power of locally elected judges to hear some cases.

A modified version of the bill stripped of some of its most controversial provisions passed a state Senate committee Thursday � although they could be added back in as the two legislative houses come to an agreement.

Both versions of the legislation would greatly expand the jurisdiction of the Capitol Police, a state government-controlled police force that has been criticized by local leaders for aggressive tactics and multiple shootings by officers.

Taken together, the changes in the House bill would put White, conservative state officials in control of much of the criminal justice system across a significant swathe of Jackson. That prospect has mobilized opposition in a city where more than eight in 10 residents are Black.

How does a city in America not have running water in 2023, and the state government is more focused on having the Capitol Police be the city police than addressing this.

quote:

The city, which has experienced a water quality crisis that has forced residents to rely on neighborhood distributions of bottled water, received about $800 million in federal funding for water infrastructure upgrades, most from a spending bill that passed Congress last year.

But another bill currently being debated in the state legislature would create a new regional board to take control of Jackson�s water and sewer system, with a majority of board members being appointed by the governor and lieutenant governor. That has raised the alarm of the federal monitor appointed to oversee the system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghhaREDM3X8

# ? Mar 1, 2023 21:51

Harold Fjord: Jan 3, 2004; Can't post for 48 hours!

In Ohio cities aren't allowed to not hire racist white people from the suburbs to brutalize Black residents. This is just the next obvious step.

# ? Mar 1, 2023 21:58

Silly Burrito: Nov 27, 2007; SET A COURSE FOR
THE FLAVOR QUADRANT

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

It says in the article that it was a combination of:

- The IRA capping their biggest purchaser (Medicare) at $35.
- The state of California filing a lawsuit against them.
- Several generic insulin competitors coming out with $30 insulin variants soon.

Essentially, they were inevitably going to have to lower the price due to those three things and decided to get out in front for some good press.

Maybe so but I�d like to think Twitter was good for at least one good thing in the world.

# ? Mar 1, 2023 22:14

koolkal: Oct 21, 2008; this thread maybe doesnt have room for 2 green xbox one avs

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/03/01/havana-syndrome-intelligence-report-weapon/

WaPo posted:

The mysterious ailment known as �Havana syndrome� did not result from the actions of a foreign adversary, according to an intelligence report that shatters a long-disputed theory that hundreds of U.S. personnel were targeted and sickened by a clandestine enemy wielding energy waves as a weapon.

The new intelligence assessment caps a years-long effort by the CIA and several other U.S. intelligence agencies to explain why career diplomats, intelligence officers and others serving in U.S. missions around the world experienced what they described as strange and painful acoustic sensations. The effects of this mysterious trauma shortened careers, racked up large medical bills and in some cases caused severe physical and emotional suffering.

Many of the afflicted personnel say they were the victims of a deliberate attack � possibly at the hands of Russia or another adversarial government � a claim that the report contradicts in nearly every respect, according to two intelligence officials who are familiar with the assessment and described it to The Washington Post.

Seven intelligence agencies participated in the review of approximately 1,000 cases of �anomalous health incidents,� the term the government uses to describe a constellation of physical symptoms including ringing in the ears followed by pressure in the head and nausea, headaches and acute discomfort.

Five of those agencies determined it was �very unlikely� that a foreign adversary was responsible for the symptoms, either as the result of purposeful actions � such as a directed energy weapon � or as the byproduct of some other activity, including electronic surveillance that unintentionally could have made people sick, the officials said. They spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe the findings of the assessment, which had not yet been made public.

One agency, which the officials did not name, determined that it was �unlikely� that a foreign actor was at fault, a slightly less emphatic finding that did not appreciably change the consensus. One agency abstained in its conclusion regarding a foreign actor. But when asked, no agency dissented from the conclusion that a foreign actor did not cause the symptoms, one of the intelligence officials said.

The symptoms were first reported at the U.S. Embassy in Havana in 2016.

The officials said that as analysts examined clusters of reported cases, including at U.S. embassies, they found no pattern or common set of conditions that could link individual cases. They also found no evidence, including forensic information or geolocation data, that would suggest an adversary had used a form of directed energy such as radio waves or ultrasonic beams. In some cases, there was no �direct line of sight� to affected personnel working at U.S. facilities, further casting doubt on the possibility that a hypothetical energy weapon could have been the culprit, one of the officials said.

One of the officials said that even in geographic locations where U.S. intelligence effectively had total ability to monitor the environment for signs of malicious interference, analysts found no evidence of an adversary targeting personnel.

�There was nothing,� the official said. This person added that there was no intelligence that foreign leaders, including in Russia, had any knowledge of or had authorized an attack on U.S. personnel that could explain the symptoms.

The second official, who described a frustrating �mystery� as to why longtime colleagues had become ill, said analysts spent months churning data, looking for patterns and inventing new analytic methodologies, only to come up with no single plausible explanation.

Both officials said the intelligence community remained open to new ideas and evidence. For instance, if information emerged that a foreign adversary had made progress developing the technology for an energy weapon, that might cause analysts to adjust their assessments.

But they essentially foreclosed the possibility that Russia or another adversarial government or nonstate actor was behind the mysterious syndrome.

�One always wants to be humble,� one official said. �And we looked at what [additional information] we would need� to change the conclusions. The official added that some work on finding a source for the health conditions continues, notably at the Defense Department, and that intelligence agencies were prepared to lend their support to that effort.

In a statement, CIA Director William J. Burns said analysts had conducted �one of the largest and most intensive investigations in the Agency�s history. I and my leadership team stand firmly behind the work conducted and the findings.�

Current and former CIA personnel who have suffered symptoms have praised Burns for ensuring their claims were taken seriously and that they received medical treatment, whether or not their illness could be attributed to a foreign actor or any other cause.

�I want to be absolutely clear: these findings do not call into question the experiences and real health issues that US Government personnel and their family members � including CIA�s own officers � have reported while serving our country," Burns said. �We will continue to remain alert to any risks to the health and wellbeing of Agency officers, to ensure access to care, and to provide officers the compassion and respect they deserve.�

�Needless to say, these findings do not call into question the very real experiences and symptoms that our colleagues and their family members have reported,� Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines said in a statement.

The intelligence assessment also examined whether an adversary possessed a device capable of using energy to cause the reported symptoms. Of the seven agencies, five determined that it was �very unlikely,� while the other two said it was �unlikely.�

Over the years, government agencies including the State Department and FBI were unable to substantiate the use of an energy weapon.

But the new assessment is at odds with the view of an independent panel of experts, which last year found that an external energy source plausibly could explain the symptoms. The panel, which was convened by the intelligence community, suggested that a foreign power could have harnessed �pulsed electromagnetic energy� that made people sick.

The expert panel�s findings also were consistent with earlier conclusions of the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine, which found that �directed, pulsed radio frequency energy appears to be the most plausible mechanism in explaining these cases.�

David Relman, who headed the National Academies investigation and co-chaired the intelligence community experts panel, and had not reviewed the final intelligence assessment, said the energy weapon hypothesis remains viable.

�There are multiple possible explanations for the apparent discrepancy between the failure to identify a malefactor and the plausibility of directed energy as a mechanism. One should not necessarily discount the latter,� Relman told The Post.

The new intelligence report may represent the official word on the strange health ailment, but it probably won�t be the last word on the matter.

Representatives and lawyers for people suffering with symptoms lambasted the new report as incomplete and opaque. They called on intelligence agencies to disclose more information about how they reached their conclusions and to investigate other leads they said remained poorly examined.

�Until the shrouds of secrecy are lifted and the analysis that led to today�s assertions are available and subject to proper challenge, the alleged conclusions are substantively worthless,� Mark S. Zaid, an attorney representing more than two dozen people experiencing symptoms, said in a statement.

An advocacy group composed of current and former officials also took aim at the intelligence report�s findings, saying it �does not track with our lived experiences, nor does it account for what many medical professionals across multiple institutions have found in working with us. Our doctors have determined that environmental or preexisting medical issues did not cause the symptoms and traumatic injuries to our neurological systems that many of us have been diagnosed with,� the group Advocacy for Victims of Havana Syndrome said in a statement.

Michael R. Turner (R-Ohio) and Jim Himes (D-Conn.), the leaders of the House Intelligence Committee, stopped short of endorsing the report, but didn�t dispute its findings. In a statement they said would �seek to ensure the review was conducted with the highest degree of analytical rigor and that it considered all the available intelligence and perspectives, documenting all substantial differences in analysis.�

Some current and former officials whose conditions remained unexplained say that the CIA and other intelligence agencies did not sufficiently investigate the possibility that an energy weapon was used against them. They argue that analysts could have done more to find correlations between, say, the travel histories of suspected Russian intelligence operatives and the times and places where symptoms were reported.

Intelligence officials counter that analysts looked closely at that possibility and devoted extraordinary resources to the search for a possible cause. A dedicated group staffed by seasoned analysts and led by a senior CIA officer was set up to study the issue. People involved in the analysis have described it as the most complex and difficult challenge of their careers. In the end, they found no pattern to connect reported cases to a potential cause.

The CIA and other agencies also devoted more resources to providing medical care for afflicted personnel, a move that some sufferers applauded, saying that in the first years that symptoms were reported, they were treated skeptically by their managers and medical experts.

A senior official said on Wednesday that the Biden administration would continue to ensure personnel receive medical care and that it would process requests under a law that compensates government employees who experienced symptoms and in some cases had to stop working. Some individuals will be eligible for payments in the six-figure range.

�Nothing is more important than the health and wellbeing of our workforce,� Maher Bitar, the senior director for intelligence programs on the National Security Council, said in a statement.

�Since the start of the Biden-Harris Administration, we have focused on ensuring that our colleagues have access to the care and support they need. � Our commitment to the health and safety of U.S. Government personnel remains unwavering,� said Bitar, who is the interagency coordinator for the response to anomalous health incidents.

Early in the Biden administration, officials encouraged government employees who thought they were experiencing symptoms associated with the health incidents to come forward. That, the intelligence officials acknowledged, led to a flood of reported cases, most of which were attributed to other factors, such as preexisting medical conditions.

The final report�s conclusions are in keeping with an earlier interim assessment by the same group of agencies, which found that the health incidents probably were not the work of another country mounting a global attack.

�We assess it is unlikely that a foreign actor, including Russia, is conducting a sustained, worldwide campaign harming U.S. personnel with a weapon or mechanism,� a senior CIA official said at the time.

Intelligence analysts had reviewed cases that were reported on every continent except Antarctica. The vast majority of them were attributed to preexisting medical conditions or environmental or other factors, the official said.

The earlier, interim assessment had left open the possibility that a few dozen individuals whose symptoms remained unexplained, which the official called �the toughest cases,� might have been targeted in isolated attacks. �Our work is continuing, and we are not done yet,� the official said at the time.

Many of those afflicted were serving in U.S. embassies or diplomatic facilities or were traveling overseas when they fell ill. Children of U.S. government personnel also have reported symptoms.

But in the end, the final intelligence report found that medical experts could not attribute the symptoms to an external cause separate from a preexisting condition or environmental factors, including conditions such as clogged air ducts in office buildings that could cause headaches, the officials aid.

Over time, the state of medical understanding about the condition has evolved in ways that point away from a foreign adversary�s involvement, the officials said.

State Department personnel serving in U.S. embassies are among those who have reported symptoms over the years. Despite the new conclusions, Secretary of State Antony Blinken remains of the view that something happened to those employees who have reported significant ailments, and he is committed to making sure they are cared for, said a person familiar with Blinken�s thinking who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a divisive topic within the department.

Blinken has long doubted that personnel are suffering from mass hysteria or some psychogenic event, officials have said. Previous investigations, notably by the FBI, had raised the possibility that the symptoms had a psychological origin, not a physical one, outraging many sufferers who felt their pain had been marginalized and their claims not taken seriously by medical personnel. Experts have emphasized that even if the illnesses were psychogenic, that doesn�t mean sufferers are imagining their symptoms.

�Those who have been affected have real stories to tell � their pain is real,� Blinken wrote to all U.S. diplomats when the CIA previewed its interim findings. �There is no doubt in my mind about that.� Blinken called the symptoms described by people he met with as �gut wrenching.�

The independent experts panel also cast doubt on a psychological cause. �Psychosocial factors alone cannot account for the core characteristics, although they may cause some other incidents or contribute to long-term symptoms,� they wrote.

Some proponents of the hypothesis that a foreign actor is to blame and who were familiar with the new report�s findings said they felt frustrated and weren�t ready to abandon the possibility that a foreign government, probably Russia, was at work. They have pointed out that the drop in recent reported symptoms has coincided with Russia�s invasion of Ukraine, suggesting that the Kremlin�s resources were spread too thin to continue a possible campaign against U.S. personnel.

�The timing is deeply suspicious,� a State Department official said.

There have been no accounts of Russia introducing a new type of energy weapon on the battlefield in Ukraine.

At the height of public concern about Havana syndrome, U.S. officials who questioned or were even neutral on the possible cause faced significant scrutiny.

The CIA recalled its top officer in Vienna in 2021 after he was accused of not taking claims seriously enough, among other criticisms.

Also that year, the State Department�s top official overseeing cases, Ambassador Pamela Spratlen, left her position after six months amid calls for her resignation. Spratlen had held a teleconference with sufferers who asked about the FBI study that determined that the symptoms were psychogenic. Spratlen declined to say whether she believed the FBI study was accurate, angering diplomats who say their symptoms are the result of an attack, said people familiar with the matter.

Devlin Barrett contributed to this report.

TLDR: multiple intelligence agencies all conclude that it's very unlikely to involve energy weapons or foreign adversaries in general.

Many people remain unconvinced so I assume we will continue the hunt for the magic microwaves.

# ? Mar 1, 2023 23:16

Fart Amplifier: Apr 12, 2003

Bellmaker posted:

So what would it take for Biden to send the National Guard down there? Because this is some apartheid poo poo.

SCOTUS ruling against this and then the state ignoring the ruling.

# ? Mar 1, 2023 23:25

Angry_Ed: Mar 30, 2010; Grimey Drawer

koolkal posted:

Many people remain unconvinced so I assume we will continue the hunt for the magic microwaves.

Saying this reminded me of Trump's claim that Obama spied on him with a microwave :laffo:

# ? Mar 1, 2023 23:26

small butter: Oct 8, 2011

Angry_Ed posted:

Saying this reminded me of Trump's claim that Obama spied on him with a microwave

I think that was Kellyanne Conway, but close enough.

Wow, what a batshit administration that was.

# ? Mar 1, 2023 23:33

TheDisreputableDog: Oct 13, 2005

selec posted:

Dale�s job would also never be available to me because the system picks the type of people it needs to fill a role; it�s why you never see a leftist CEO, but the country is littered with reactionary social workers. Qualifications for elite journalism are as much about �fit� for the purpose of the system, moreso I would argue than actual qualifications.

This is an especially baffling take, given that a bunch of NYT journalists are demanding that any discussion around puberty blockers should banned from the paper.

# ? Mar 2, 2023 01:00

selec: Sep 6, 2003

TheDisreputableDog posted:

This is an especially baffling take, given that a bunch of NYT journalists are demanding that any discussion around puberty blockers should banned from the paper.

Can you cite where in the letter it says that?

# ? Mar 2, 2023 01:16

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

small butter posted:

I think that was Kellyanne Conway, but close enough.

Wow, what a batshit administration that was.

still funny that kellyanne's polling firm was like third-best of this election cycle, easily outperforming mainstream outlets that called for a red wave

# ? Mar 2, 2023 02:03

TheDisreputableDog: Oct 13, 2005

selec posted:

Can you cite where in the letter it says that?

I�m happy to cite the way they hand-waved puberty blockers into the same category as HRT and gender surgery, or claimed the practice was settled science for �decades�. But point taken, in any sufficiently illiberal or authoritarian view of public discourse, there�s a correct and allowed viewpoint which may be discussed.

The point being, the existence of hundreds of these journalists eviscerates your weird rant about being too progressive to work there. Their positions are perfectly leftist.

TheDisreputableDog fucked around with this message at 02:15 on Mar 2, 2023

# ? Mar 2, 2023 02:10

Yawgmoft: Nov 15, 2004

selec posted:

Can you cite where in the letter it says that?

Well the absolute bullshit response from the NYT tried to pretend the letter said that, I suppose.

# ? Mar 2, 2023 02:10

Epic High Five: Jun 5, 2004

I'm not so sure there's too many lefties kicking around in a spat between legacy media journalism and far right politicians who have decided to return to tradition in their conservatism. I don't think Dale is too bad by most standards, but imho there's getting mad at him for being among the useless stenographer class from a macro viewpoint and there's getting mad about how gotchas have never and will never actually matter, and maybe the streams are getting crossed a bit.

You can make whatever points you like TDD so long as you defend them and they're intellectually honest, but nobody is obligated to agree with you and if you think it'd go off like a hermit's still in a wildfire it's not going to go any different by just alluding to things then claiming victory by conspiracy of hundreds of lefties.

# ? Mar 2, 2023 02:25

BiggerBoat: Sep 26, 2007; Don't you tell me my business again.

small butter posted:

I think that was Kellyanne Conway, but close enough.

Wow, what a batshit administration that was.

Well, we might get a sequel!

https://news.yahoo.com/2024-poll-desantis-slides-as-trump-surges-to-1st-head-to-head-lead-in-months-202853979.html

2024 poll: DeSantis slides as Trump surges to 1st head-to-head lead in months

The Florida governor's lead over the former president has evaporated, with Trump now leading DeSantis 47% to 39%.

I'm not prepared to say that either one of them automatically loses to Biden either

# ? Mar 2, 2023 02:38

Youth Decay: Aug 18, 2015

BiggerBoat posted:

Well, we might get a sequel!

https://news.yahoo.com/2024-poll-desantis-slides-as-trump-surges-to-1st-head-to-head-lead-in-months-202853979.html

2024 poll: DeSantis slides as Trump surges to 1st head-to-head lead in months

The Florida governor's lead over the former president has evaporated, with Trump now leading DeSantis 47% to 39%.

I'm not prepared to say that either one of them automatically loses to Biden either

If DeSantis wins the primary enough hardcore chuds will write Trump's name in to hand the presidency to Biden.

# ? Mar 2, 2023 02:45

FlamingLiberal: Jan 18, 2009; Would you like to play a game?

I think Trump ends up winning the primary easily, just because the more GOP voters see of DeSantis the less I think they'll like him

# ? Mar 2, 2023 02:57

Young Freud: Nov 26, 2006

FlamingLiberal posted:

I think Trump ends up winning the primary easily, just because the more GOP voters see of DeSantis the less I think they'll like him

I really want Trump to just ruin DeSantis' remaining time as governor. Like he's mortgaged the entire state for his presidential run, I want him to be surrounded while the state falls apart.

# ? Mar 2, 2023 03:06

the_steve: Nov 9, 2005; We're always hiring!

Angry_Ed posted:

Saying this reminded me of Trump's claim that Obama spied on him with a microwave

Have you seen smart appliances? Hell, you can play Skyrim on your icemaker.

# ? Mar 2, 2023 03:10

cr0y: Mar 24, 2005

Federal charges start dropping and trump makes some devil's deal to endorse desantis in exchange for a pardon....to own the libs.

# ? Mar 2, 2023 03:15

Epic High Five: Jun 5, 2004

DeSantis will crush Trump if he's smart enough to just not do debates and stuff and keeps pitching Fascism for Moderates, Don't Think Too Hard About It and maybe gets a speaking coach, but if he was gonna do the latter he would've by now, and the former may work but Trump's going to make the strategy about as hard as it can possibly be because doing PR stunt rallies and grifting obscene amounts of money was absolutely his favorite part of being and becoming President

# ? Mar 2, 2023 03:17

Wayne Knight: May 11, 2006

DeSantis tries to beat trump in the primaries, fails. Trump loses the election, but then runs for governor of FL to spite DeSantis.

# ? Mar 2, 2023 03:22

Morrow: Oct 31, 2010

If there were ever two republican politicians willing to burn everything around them, it was Trump and DeSantis.

# ? Mar 2, 2023 03:25

nine-gear crow: Aug 10, 2013

BiggerBoat posted:

Well, we might get a sequel!

https://news.yahoo.com/2024-poll-desantis-slides-as-trump-surges-to-1st-head-to-head-lead-in-months-202853979.html

2024 poll: DeSantis slides as Trump surges to 1st head-to-head lead in months

The Florida governor's lead over the former president has evaporated, with Trump now leading DeSantis 47% to 39%.

I'm not prepared to say that either one of them automatically loses to Biden either

Trump's Ohio McDonalds trip shows why he's got this in the bag over DeSantis. Trump bought everyone Big Macs and gave them MAGA hats to help them forget about the fact that every breath they take and every drop of water they bathe in and drink is now filled with carcinogens that will kill them and their kids in a decade and they all piled on top of each other to be the first to kiss his feet again. DeSantis held a press conference that like 20 people showed up to where he said mean things about Disney World and punctuated every third word with "woke" and the cameras practically fell over out of boredom.

Trump is going to poo poo down DeSantis's neck so hard in the primary you won't be able to tell where DeSantis ends and Donald Trump's meaty diarrhea poo poo beings and then it's gonna be another horrifyingly close 49.9/50.1 nail-biter between Trump and Biden that could go literally either way because the US is hella big dumb stupid.

# ? Mar 2, 2023 03:26

TheDisreputableDog: Oct 13, 2005

Epic High Five posted:

You can make whatever points you like TDD so long as you defend them and they're intellectually honest, but nobody is obligated to agree with you and if you think it'd go off like a hermit's still in a wildfire it's not going to go any different by just alluding to things then claiming victory by conspiracy of hundreds of lefties.

I�m not sure if you�re posting with your mod hat on? Either way, thank you for the public lecture.

# ? Mar 2, 2023 03:33

kdrudy: Sep 19, 2009

cr0y posted:

Federal charges start dropping and trump makes some devil's deal to endorse desantis in exchange for a pardon....to own the libs.

Trump would never beg for help, he's always the one on top.

# ? Mar 2, 2023 03:39

small butter: Oct 8, 2011

nine-gear crow posted:

Trump's Ohio McDonalds trip shows why he's got this in the bag over DeSantis. Trump bought everyone Big Macs and gave them MAGA hats to help them forget about the fact that every breath they take and every drop of water they bathe in and drink is now filled with carcinogens that will kill them and their kids in a decade and they all piled on top of each other to be the first to kiss his feet again.

I see what you're saying here, but you're exaggerating the situation in East Palestine. For the time being, the air and water is likely safe.

# ? Mar 2, 2023 03:51

Timeless Appeal: May 28, 2006

Wayne Knight posted:

DeSantis tries to beat trump in the primaries, fails. Trump loses the election, but then runs for governor of FL to spite DeSantis.

I think my big fear was that people were going treat DeSantis like a reasonable conservative, and now you do have CNN instead being like, "Weirdo defended the three-fifths compromise."

I mean at least with Trump you can take solace in the fact that he doesn't know what the three-fifths compromise is.

# ? Mar 2, 2023 03:53

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# ? Jun 8, 2024 16:25

nine-gear crow: Aug 10, 2013

small butter posted:

I see what you're saying here, but you're exaggerating the situation in East Palestine. For the time being, the air and water is likely safe.

Ah, I see. Last I'd heard the situation was "extremely hosed" and the only people who were saying it wasn't were on Norfolk Southern's payroll, so if actual independent experts are saying it's not as bad as that, that's modestly encouraging.

Timeless Appeal posted:

I think my big fear was that people were going treat DeSantis like a reasonable conservative, and now you do have CNN instead being like, "Weirdo defended the three-fifths compromise."

I mean at least with Trump you can take solace in the fact that he doesn't know what the three-fifths compromise is.

The thing there is, Republican voters do not want "reasonable conservatives" anymore, they want TRUMP. None of the knock offs are doing it for them, they want the pure source TRUMP. If DeStantis is positioned as being a Mitt Romney or a Tim Pawlenty to Trump by the media, he's dead.

nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Mar 2, 2023

# ? Mar 2, 2023 03:55

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USCE Winter 2023: change thread titles constantly, almost on a daily basis

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