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SlowBloke posted:Keep in mind that 2000C have been in service until very recently with several modernization programs. In some respects, it might be more modern avionic-wise than some F16 options that were suggested some time ago. I suspect most of the F-16s being offered are about on par avionics wise, we used up a lot of legacy F-16s as target drones, most of the ones in the fleet that will likely be given to Ukraine probably went through at least two modernizaitons.
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Mar 2, 2023 15:35
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The Mirage could just be used as launch platform for long range weapons like Storm Shadow.
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Mar 2, 2023 15:42
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You guys keep saying Storm Shadow, and I keep picturing a GI Joe SkyStriker inserting a White clad Ninja from a drop tank. What is the Storm Shadow.
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Mar 2, 2023 15:55
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Baconroll posted:The Mirage could just be used as launch platform for long range weapons like Storm Shadow. Some Mirages can also carry ASMP if we want to play with spicy rocks. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-sol_moyenne_port%C3%A9e
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Mar 2, 2023 15:57
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bulletsponge13 posted:You guys keep saying Storm Shadow, and I keep picturing a GI Joe SkyStriker inserting a White clad Ninja from a drop tank.  350 mile/560 kilometre long range fire and forget preprogrammed cruise missile.
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Mar 2, 2023 16:06
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zone posted:
"Stealth" is the interesting word missing here.
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Mar 2, 2023 16:12
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digging the dirigible aesthetic tbh
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Mar 2, 2023 16:13
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So a white clad ninja dropped from a flying tank, close enough.
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Mar 2, 2023 16:13
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stealie72 posted:Could be Putin, continuing to fight the last war (3 wars ago?), trying to sway public opinion by trying to convince Russians that Ukrainians are coming for them at home, as though everyone isn't watching the war live online? it's my understanding that the russian public is trying their hardest to not know what's happening in the war
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Mar 2, 2023 16:18
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This thread has liked a UK air warfare YouTube channel a couple times and seems to think positively of it. They had a video a while back talking about how even though AUF and Russia are operating the same airframes the Russians have more modern radars and EW capabilities, giving a noticeable advantage an air to air engagements. I think they specifically called out Russian radar as able to simultaneously scan and target, scan and target at a greater angle off flight path, and also able to target lock Ukranian aircraft using low enough power it might not trigger Ukrainian missile lock warning sensors. I would hope that even if these are older airframes they might have better electronics than Ukraine currently has. Given the small numbers and the extensive ground based air defense I doubt this would suddenly open the skys up to Ukraine. But a small group of planes that neutralizes Russia's electronics advantage could maybe be a critical edge in say protecting a specific offensive maneuver from Russian airpower? E: also I think more western aircraft in general will make it easier of Ukraine to use western supplied air to air and air to ground weapons?
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Mar 2, 2023 16:29
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_while_scan Here's the term you are speaking of and the wiki article on it.
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Mar 2, 2023 16:33
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zone posted:
https://www.thinkdefence.co.uk/2022/11/storm-shadow/ Note the photo of the destroyed Iraqi bridge.
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Mar 2, 2023 16:44
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Soylent Pudding posted:This thread has liked a UK air warfare YouTube channel a couple times and seems to think positively of it. They had a video a while back talking about how even though AUF and Russia are operating the same airframes the Russians have more modern radars and EW capabilities, giving a noticeable advantage an air to air engagements. I think they specifically called out Russian radar as able to simultaneously scan and target, scan and target at a greater angle off flight path, and also able to target lock Ukranian aircraft using low enough power it might not trigger Ukrainian missile lock warning sensors. A big factor in air-to-air warfare is in the missiles, and Russia has newer and more capable missiles. Russian air defenses have forced Ukrainian jets low, while Russian jets have been pushed up and away to stay out of range of Ukrainian defenses. This leaves AFU firing up at RU planes firing down, giving Russian jets a kinetic advantage. On top of that the Russians have active homing missiles that turn on a radar at the end of their run, freeing the launching aircraft to turn away to evade incoming fire. The Ukrainians have to point their noses at Russian jets for the entire flight time of the missile, that is much riskier. Because of these two factors, if two jets shoot a missile at each other, the Russian jet can freely turn away to evade while the Ukrainian missile will miss if the launching plane has to evade.
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Mar 2, 2023 16:59
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Thanks for the explanations! My other question is whether something like these Mirages and presumably western missiles would negate some of those advantages? Though for the full answer I'd probably have to ask on the war thunder forums.
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Mar 2, 2023 17:03
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mllaneza posted:A big factor in air-to-air warfare is in the missiles, and Russia has newer and more capable missiles. Russian air defenses have forced Ukrainian jets low, while Russian jets have been pushed up and away to stay out of range of Ukrainian defenses. This leaves AFU firing up at RU planes firing down, giving Russian jets a kinetic advantage. On top of that the Russians have active homing missiles that turn on a radar at the end of their run, freeing the launching aircraft to turn away to evade incoming fire. The Ukrainians have to point their noses at Russian jets for the entire flight time of the missile, that is much riskier. Russia isn't flying high either. They are just flying out of range and normally staying in Belarus and Russian airspace even during missile strikes. If they got close enough to Ukraines border, Ukraine does have SAMs capable of hitting them. Russia is also flying just like Ukraine, low and tight inside Ukraine's border for the same reason Ukraine does.
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Mar 2, 2023 17:21
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Eh. It would give parity in some ways but still be at a disadvantage. Plus all the long range SAMs etc are still a factor.
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Mar 2, 2023 17:23
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It seemed like Russia might have an edge in a 1v1 dogfight but the ten thousand anti-aircraft systems floating around, plus a lack of ability to easily replace airframes, keeps Russia from exercising this the way we think of it (because we're used to the US doing it in Iraq/Afghanistan).
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Mar 2, 2023 17:24
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Nessus posted:It seemed like Russia might have an edge in a 1v1 dogfight but the ten thousand anti-aircraft systems floating around, plus a lack of ability to easily replace airframes, keeps Russia from exercising this the way we think of it (because we're used to the US doing it in Iraq/Afghanistan). Russia could easily probably take down the Ukraine air force if they wanted to, but they are playing it cautious for the exact reason you mentioned.
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Mar 2, 2023 17:26
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Set posted:
The high-ranking officer interviewed here is 100% a dude , who spent most of his time as a major and was then promoted to lt.colonel right before retirement. Lacking the necessary communication skills to get their message across and then complaining that people aren't listening to him makes it pretty obvious.
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Mar 2, 2023 18:00
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CommieGIR posted:Russia could easily probably take down the Ukraine air force if they wanted to, but they are playing it cautious for the exact reason you mentioned. I'm under the impression that the biggest issue keeping the Russian air force inactive is the danger posed by friendly fire from their own SAMs. I guess anything that improves Ukraine's suppression of enemy air defense capabilities is welcome at this point. Speaking of which, I'm surprised we haven't seen much drone Wild Weasel operations. One would think someone would by now have cobbled together a target drone that presented a similar radar cross section to a Su-25, with the capability to send home the coordinates of the radar painting it.
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Mar 2, 2023 18:01
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https://twitter.com/DefMon3/status/1631049970378854402
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Mar 2, 2023 18:15
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I am probably wrong in my analysis, and it might be the tradition of Slavic Stubbornness, but I get the feeling Ukrainian Intelligence has good intel that this push for Bahkmet is more make or break for the Russian effort than it seems. I just can't imagine the completely brain dead tactics of repeatedly running face first into mine field and arty to take the rubble that used to be a city.
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Mar 2, 2023 19:01
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Well, there's a load of them getting pretty thorough training up in various unpleasant parts of the UK. I guess maybe not 100% but 10,000 every 120 days seems significant, and that's just one country. https://rusi.org/events/open-to-all/british-armys-contribution-training-ukrainian-forces Not that it's necessarily related but this attack has excellent TTPs https://twitter.com/PaulJawin/status/1631189395356131332?s=20
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Mar 2, 2023 19:22
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knox_harrington posted:Well, there's a load of them getting pretty thorough training up in various unpleasant parts of the UK. I guess maybe not 100% but 10,000 every 120 days seems significant, and that's just one country. That's a pretty well coordinated assault.
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Mar 2, 2023 19:24
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knox_harrington posted:Not that it's necessarily related but this attack has excellent TTPs What are TTPs?
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Mar 2, 2023 19:28
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That NYT article about Vuhledar stars a self-taught tank commander so…yeah, tracks The difference is probably that some dudes ARE getting training and also that the AFU isn’t mulching their conscripts in failed human wave attacks, so some of them are surviving long enough to get good (like the self-taught tank ace)
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Mar 2, 2023 19:31
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Subjunctive posted:What are TTPs? Tactics, techniques, procedures. Army shorthand for all the things that go into a successful assault (in infantry context).
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Mar 2, 2023 19:40
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Vengarr posted:That NYT article about Vuhledar stars a self-taught tank commander so…yeah, tracks Honestly with all the articles and news of how difficult it was to hold the ruins of Bakhmut, I thought there would be worse casualties for the AFU than they spoke of. It could have been far worse than this.
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Mar 2, 2023 19:40
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Subjunctive posted:What are TTPs? Sorry: Tactics, Techniques and Procedures. The infantry rapidly dismount and form a baseline directed towards the enemy so they are difficult to hit and can get a weight of fire down if needed. Everything is pretty slick.
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Mar 2, 2023 19:42
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Vengarr posted:That NYT article about Vuhledar stars a self-taught tank commander so…yeah, tracks Yeah, I think also that article mentioned their A list tank commanders are away getting Abrams/Leopard training.
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Mar 2, 2023 19:42
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Icon Of Sin posted:Tactics, techniques, procedures. Army shorthand for all the things that go into a successful assault (in infantry context). knox_harrington posted:Sorry: Tactics, Techniques and Procedures. The infantry rapidly dismount and form a baseline directed towards the enemy so they are difficult to hit and can get a weight of fire down if needed. Everything is pretty slick. Thank you both!
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Mar 2, 2023 19:47
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knox_harrington posted:Not that it's necessarily related but this attack has excellent TTPs
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Mar 2, 2023 19:52
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Not much information in there, they're not stating if the 101st was reconstituted. Might have been the case. Good luck to the new guys.
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Mar 2, 2023 19:57
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Slugworth posted:Why does the armor pull back? Are the guns mounted on m113s not useful in a situation like this, so it's better to just not be a target for anti armor weapons? that and it's a big visible metal box that says "hey all our guys are right here"
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Mar 2, 2023 20:01
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Slugworth posted:Why does the armor pull back? Are the guns mounted on m113s not useful in a situation like this, so it's better to just not be a target for anti armor weapons? Uber drivers need to get the fares in during surge periods! They probably aren't going to provide fire support themselves, that should be pre-positioned off to a side already so it's suppressing the target at an oblique angle. I feel like I'd want something bigger than a 50 cal in this context, probably mortars providing a steady rate. Firing over the top of the advancing inf is not a great idea. As previously said, they're also pulling a lot of attention to the spot the dismounts are at, so best clear the area. knox_harrington fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Mar 2, 2023 |
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Mar 2, 2023 20:15
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So apparently before damaging that A-50, the Belarusian partisans just casually landed a drone on it's radar disk and then flew back out, recording the whole thing. That seems... not great in terms of base security. ETA: Not linking the video directly, because it's in that one weird subreddit filled with combat footage and I don't know how to link only the video.
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Mar 2, 2023 20:25
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CommieGIR posted:Russia isn't flying high either. They are just flying out of range and normally staying in Belarus and Russian airspace even during missile strikes. Russian tactical strike aircraft are lobbing rockets and flying low. Russian CAP aircraft can orbit at altitude over friendly ground and look down on the FLOT with advanced air to air radars and missiles, while staying away from SAM fire. Russian air to air jets enjoy a significant advantage over Ukrainian aircraft.
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Mar 2, 2023 20:29
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Loezi posted:So apparently before damaging that A-50, the Belarusian partisans just casually landed a drone on it's radar disk and then flew back out, recording the whole thing. That seems... not great in terms of base security. https://twitter.com/AlexBondODUA/status/1631303676043165696
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Mar 2, 2023 20:32
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https://twitter.com/faineg/status/1631319179931578368 This is going to suck hard for Russia.
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Mar 2, 2023 20:33
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Subjunctive posted:Thank you both! Incidentally that's where the infosec usage of the term is borrowed from. More terms are borrowed from military terminology like C2 for example.
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Mar 2, 2023 20:42
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