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jeeves posted:The grim dystopia of Trek’s 2024 at least gave un-housed people buildings to live in even if they are in walled in-ghettos… And they have universal health care!
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Mar 4, 2023 18:25
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And WOOSH!! I'm invisible!!!
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Mar 4, 2023 18:32
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The most unbelievable aspect of that episode was the thought of Americans adopting Celsius.
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Mar 4, 2023 20:17
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Eighties ZomCom posted:The most unbelievable aspect of that episode was the thought of Americans adopting Celsius. there's still time!!
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Mar 4, 2023 20:35
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Watched "Crossover" from DS9. It's interesting to return to this mirror world where things are generally worse for people. Is it an alternate universe– a split in the timeline? I think it's something stranger and more based in symbols than physics. It's always unpleasant to see our characters behave so nastily but it was refreshing to see Quark do good things. We also get Bashir blowing away Mirror!Odo in spectacular fashion. Then it was "Preemptive Strike" from TNG, the penultimate episode. Not the most terribly interesting or unique story but as someone who was wondering where Ro had gone, this was a decent sendoff. That Bajoran pita they were eating, I want to try that.
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Mar 4, 2023 23:38
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DoubleCakes posted:Watched "Crossover" from DS9. It's interesting to return to this mirror world where things are generally worse for people. Is it an alternate universe– a split in the timeline? I think it's something stranger and more based in symbols than physics. It's always unpleasant to see our characters behave so nastily but it was refreshing to see Quark do good things. We also get Bashir blowing away Mirror!Odo in spectacular fashion. it's the same universe as "mirror, mirror" in TOS. DS9 further explores it but it also shows up in enterprise ("in a mirror, darkly") and discovery (multiple episodes and characters, all pretty bad)
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Mar 4, 2023 23:51
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Somebody post the hasperat recipe I know it's out there
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Mar 4, 2023 23:52
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DoubleCakes posted:Then it was "Preemptive Strike" from TNG, the penultimate episode. Not the most terribly interesting or unique story but as someone who was wondering where Ro had gone It was supposed to be DS9, Forbes turned down the role as first officer and they made Kira instead
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Mar 5, 2023 00:07
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Weird I always pictured hasperat as a type of spicey stew but apparently its some sort of rolled sandwich.
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Mar 5, 2023 02:49
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It's a combination of "hasper" which is a delicately-spiced flatbread traditional on Bajor, and "rat" which is a sewer rodent that's a delicacy on Bajor.
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Mar 5, 2023 03:07
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Hollismason posted:Discovery was trash because they tried the season long arc prestige show and honestly it just doesn't work for Star Trek I'm still not convinced it couldn't, but after Disco, they should stop for at least a decade and only resume once the table's been set by more episodic shows.
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Mar 5, 2023 03:40
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DS9 had a lot of stand-alone episodes in between those arc episodes, which Disco rarely had
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Mar 5, 2023 03:45
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FlamingLiberal posted:DS9 had a lot of stand-alone episodes in between those arc episodes, which Disco rarely had Yeah, Ira Behr likes to huff his own farts and boast that he brought serialized storytelling to television, but the only time DS9 went full-serial was the final nine episodes. Otherwise things were always happening in the background and occasionally an episode would focus on them.
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Mar 5, 2023 03:59
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Timby posted:Yeah, Ira Behr likes to huff his own farts and boast that he brought serialized storytelling to television, but the only time DS9 went full-serial was the final nine episodes. Otherwise things were always happening in the background and occasionally an episode would focus on them.
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Mar 5, 2023 04:01
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Timby posted:Yeah, Ira Behr likes to huff his own farts and boast that he brought serialized storytelling to television, but the only time DS9 went full-serial was the final nine episodes. Otherwise things were always happening in the background and occasionally an episode would focus on them. Does he really claim that? That's hilarious even if you discount Babylon 5.
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Mar 5, 2023 04:18
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FlamingLiberal posted:DS9 had a lot of stand-alone episodes in between those arc episodes, which Disco rarely had Joss Whedon is a monster, but the Buffy model is a winner. Monster-of-the-week standalones that built to a big payoff.
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Mar 5, 2023 04:36
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Beeftweeter posted:it's the same universe as "mirror, mirror" in TOS. DS9 further explores it but it also shows up in enterprise ("in a mirror, darkly") and discovery (multiple episodes and characters, all pretty bad) tbh the ds9 ones aren't all that hot either, although the cast seemed to be having a ball doing them
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Mar 5, 2023 04:43
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Feldegast42 posted:tbh the ds9 ones aren't all that hot either, although the cast seemed to be having a ball doing them i completely agree, they're not excellent episodes by any means. the ds9 ones are kind of like the two-parter on enterprise: they're just sort of hammy vehicles for the cast to goof around in and for weird poo poo to happen to the characters that would otherwise be completely out of bounds. this is the way discovery totally lost sight of this though, which really makes the whole thing suffer because they decided to make it part of the larger whole. terrible choice imo
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Mar 5, 2023 04:49
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Beeftweeter posted:i completely agree, they're not excellent episodes by any means. the ds9 ones are kind of like the two-parter on enterprise: they're just sort of hammy vehicles for the cast to goof around in and for weird poo poo to happen to the characters that would otherwise be completely out of bounds. this is the way
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Mar 5, 2023 04:58
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DS9 also built on a huge amount of back story before committing to its serialization. There's tons of episodes that are one offs that deal with the Dominion and Changelings. Then finally everything comes to ahead.
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Mar 5, 2023 05:18
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FlamingLiberal posted:The most disappointing thing to me is that when they wanted to make a good stand-alone episode they could. In Season 1 the episode that similar to 'Cause and Effect' from TNG has the crew getting killed by Harry Mudd in a timeloop. Then in Season 2 the episode where they go back to Talus IV from 'The Cage' is also pretty good. yeah, imo you're not wrong. most of the disco episodes i'd say were actually good are the ones that are one-offs similarly some of the "short treks" are pretty good, and some of them are literally set on discovery — "calypso" is the example that comes to mind, and it doesn't even feature any of the actual cast. it's one guy we never see again and the ship's computer e: if you have paramount+ https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/video/jtw1dLB8cbhey8G_CO1Sy71rplDuvH_q/ (and if you don't, it's, uh, around) Beeftweeter fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Mar 5, 2023 |
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Mar 5, 2023 05:29
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Beeftweeter posted:i completely agree, they're not excellent episodes by any means. the ds9 ones are kind of like the two-parter on enterprise: they're just sort of hammy vehicles for the cast to goof around in and for weird poo poo to happen to the characters that would otherwise be completely out of bounds. this is the way I really disagree. Mirror, Mirror was a serious episode that had something to say about imperialism and about the characters, it wasn't just a comedy romp. I much prefer Discovery trying to take that approach than Ds9's approach of wasting everyone's time with some wacky bullshit that has nothing to do with the rest of the series. (And, of course, there's the nasty subtext in DS9's Mirror Universe that a, the Empire was right to believe that cruelty was strength, and b, mirror-Kira becoming more and more of a depraved bisexual cartoon villain in every appearance. I honestly consider them the most reactionary episodes Star Trek has ever done.) Angry Salami fucked around with this message at 05:55 on Mar 5, 2023 |
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Mar 5, 2023 05:53
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Angry Salami posted:I really disagree. Mirror, Mirror was a serious episode that had something to say about imperialism and about the characters, it wasn't just a comedy romp. I much prefer Discovery trying to take that approach than Ds9's approach of wasting everyone's time with some wacky bullshit that has nothing to do with the rest of the series. mirror, mirror is a good, serious episode, you're right; it does have something to say, and it says it well. that was more in reference to the DS9 set, which is a bit more of a complex subject the mirror episodes of DS9 do not start out as being ridiculous. "crossover" is mostly serious: it tells us what happened to the terran empire, how humans are now subjugated under the cardassians, klingons and bajorans ("the alliance"), and also has a lot to say about what that means for them similarly "through the looking glass" is not on its face a silly episode either, but it is less grandiose about its aims, and that's fine. the rest of them though? i agree, if the goofiness is off-putting to you, don't watch them; you won't like them. ultimately though the entire premise of having a "mirror universe" itself is examined, and (imo of course) they rightfully conclude that it's pretty silly. "evil" characters become caricatures, but that line is blurred because, well, it's the mirror universe — there are no "good" characters from our point of view i'm not going to defend what they did with the intendant at all because i also disagree with it, but i think characterizing what the theme is as, in essence, "might makes right" is missing the point. ultimately we're talking about space imperialism no matter which way you cut it, and, well: it is the mirror universe, after all, and our heroes stem from the terran empire. they're not trying to make that point, i think. it's more that a human is a human, no matter if they're from the terran empire, or the federation this is basically the same point "mirror, mirror" makes; spock is spock, and kirk recognizes this. it leads to lasting change, which doesn't turn out to be a good thing in that setting. later in DS9 the alliance is overthrown because they eventually get sloppy and sadistic, while being comfortable in doing so. these are the same things that leads to the terran empire's downfall in the first place it's appropriate, i think
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Mar 5, 2023 06:11
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oh lol i completely forgot to mention discovery, probably because i've only seen them once or at most twice anyway, i don't believe there are entire episodes set within the mirror universe, except perhaps the final episodes of the first season? my issue with them is not really about the setting, it's that they had a pretty decent character in lorca and then kneecapped this by making him from there (same with georgiou). it's just a lazy way to explain why a starfleet captain might be a bad person, i think. it would have been much more interesting and less of a cop-out to make lorca just a hosed up guy from "our" universe we don't need bad characters to come from somewhere else. there are bad people everywhere, why do this
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Mar 5, 2023 06:19
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Remember how Lorca was sensitive to bright light and then they went "actually, humans from the mirror universe are slightly more sensitive to bright light!" So we could've suspected he was from the mirror universe, if, you know, if we'd known that I guess
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Mar 5, 2023 07:36
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In the not mirror universe there's probably a two second medical tricorder procedure to fix the light sensitivity too, any medical intern could do it.
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Mar 5, 2023 08:34
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davidspackage posted:Remember how Lorca was sensitive to bright light and then they went "actually, humans from the mirror universe are slightly more sensitive to bright light!" Lorca actually dug up a doctor, and paid him 20 menthol Kools to do a surgical shine job on his eyeballs.
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Mar 5, 2023 09:04
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LividLiquid posted:Joss Whedon is a monster, but the Buffy model is a winner. Monster-of-the-week standalones that built to a big payoff. Yeah I've always though the buffy model would work for Trek. It would've worked particularly well for Voyager.
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Mar 5, 2023 11:15
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Beeftweeter posted:this is basically the same point "mirror, mirror" makes; spock is spock, and kirk recognizes this. it leads to lasting change, which doesn't turn out to be a good thing in that setting. Come to think of it, I'm a little surprised no one has used this incident as support for a Dimensional Prime Directive: interference with a less-ethically-advanced civilization, even if well-intentioned, can lead straight to disaster.
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Mar 5, 2023 16:16
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Powered Descent posted:Come to think of it, I'm a little surprised no one has used this incident as support for a Dimensional Prime Directive: interference with a less-ethically-advanced civilization, even if well-intentioned, can lead straight to disaster. there kind of is. we're told that "normal" transporters don't exist in the mirror universe to prevent the exact kind of thing that happened in "mirror, mirror". obviously that means it was unilaterally imposed by one side, but it makes sense, i think: the event is not very well known here — it seems to be handwaved away as Normal Space Stuff — but it's infamous there, because it led to the fall of an empire
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Mar 5, 2023 16:26
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Powered Descent posted:interference with a less-ethically-advanced civilization, even if well-intentioned, can lead straight to disaster. But that's all star trek is!
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Mar 5, 2023 17:40
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Brawnfire posted:It's a combination of "hasper" which is a delicately-spiced flatbread traditional on Bajor, and "rat" which is a sewer rodent that's a delicacy on Bajor. 
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Mar 5, 2023 18:01
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Discovery, a Star Trek show that surely didn't seem to like being one, gets their monkey pawn wish and is released from all the burden of trying to cursorily follow the existing canon.
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Mar 5, 2023 20:34
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Beeftweeter posted:there kind of is. we're told that "normal" transporters don't exist in the mirror universe to prevent the exact kind of thing that happened in "mirror, mirror". obviously that means it was unilaterally imposed by one side, but it makes sense, i think: the event is not very well known here — it seems to be handwaved away as Normal Space Stuff — but it's infamous there, because it led to the fall of an empire
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Mar 5, 2023 21:38
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Der Kyhe posted:Discovery, a Star Trek show that surely didn't seem to like being one X, a Y show that surely didn't seem to like being one fits into a whole lot of streaming content right now
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Mar 5, 2023 22:16
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Hollismason posted:DS9 also built on a huge amount of back story before committing to its serialization. There's tons of episodes that are one offs that deal with the Dominion and Changelings. Then finally everything comes to ahead. Yeah it wasn't so much serialization as just allowing circumstances to change over time in a way that had been considered syndication poison.
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Mar 5, 2023 22:58
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Feldegast42 posted:X, a Y show that surely didn't seem to like being one fits into a whole lot of streaming content right now I completely agree. Discovery was an appaling one; the S1 and S2 arcs were relatively interesting stories that would have been at home in the preceding 50-year canon, but they just couldn't help themselves from redesigning everything for just the sake or re-design. And then they decided to timejump into the 32nd century, and not only a possible 32nd century, the only 32nd century that can never ever ever happen.
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Mar 5, 2023 23:14
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Der Kyhe posted:the only 32nd century that can never ever ever happen. i gave up on watching discovery, so i'm not sure what this means and i'm genuinely curious. could you elaborate?
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Mar 5, 2023 23:39
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Beeftweeter posted:i gave up on watching discovery, so i'm not sure what this means and i'm genuinely curious. could you elaborate? They made it clear that via time traveling, there was a person stuck in the future where all intelligent life in the galaxy was wiped by the AI enemy they were working against. That person had a time-traveling gizmo that enabled that person to jump back in time to try to fix the timeline, but had been unsuccessful so far. So the DISCO crew cooks up a plan, and it, and only it works, involving taking the USS Discovery to 32nd century because it was the key for the AI enemy to not erase every biological lifeform in the galaxy. Basically they are forcing the hand for canon and future shows to say that DISCO needs to happen as is, or everyone dies. So unless USS Discovery jumps to the future, Kirk, Picard or Sisko does not happen. And the future they jumped into was a generic "Starfleet and Federation has fallen"-future the writers have been wanking over for a decade as a reboot series. Der Kyhe fucked around with this message at 23:47 on Mar 5, 2023 |
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Mar 5, 2023 23:45
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Der Kyhe posted:They made it clear that via time traveling, there was a person stuck in the future where all intelligent life in the galaxy was wiped by the AI enemy they were working against. That person had a time-traveling gizmo that enabled that person to jump back in time to try to fix the timeline, but had been unsuccessful so far. oh i did see up to there (and a little bit further but not much i guess), i guess i just didn't really think it through. i see your point, and yeah, that future setting was why i basically dismissed the series after that lol i guess there's something of an argument to be made about there being multiple possible timelines as the outcome of every decision a la "parallels", but i never got the sense that disco was trying to accomplish anything like that. to me it just seemed like they realized they painted themselves into a corner with the prequel setting, decided that wasn't the show they wanted to make, and then used a hamfisted plot device to try and course-correct i mean, i also get why spock, pike and the enterprise show up in that season; they were setting up a spinoff. but i thought it was really bizarre that they were just like "ah yeah, discovery? that never happened and nobody will ever mention it again". that is one hell of a way to make the audience not care at all about it
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Mar 5, 2023 23:58
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