|
PurpleXVI posted:https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1632255175963340801 I wonder what the CEP is on those.
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 18:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 11:44 |
|
|
A Korean War Vet who won the Silver Star once gave me advice for fighting with a US Entrenching Tool- "Keep in an L, and go for under the chin. You'll cleave a face right off." I nodded solemnly, because dude had the real life experience. I never confirmed the number, but the common held belief was he killed 12 Chinese troops on a hilltop with his shovel when his unit overrun. I don't think it really matters much, but I am not going to argue with weirdo church pastor who had a painting of him killing Chinese soldiers with a shovel in his office. Weirdly, it is one of the finer points that is debated among the low caste known as the Infantry. They love to ruminate on hypothetical, and debate the finer details of misusing tools for the purpose of revoking birth certificates. Which way to put the shovel blade? Where to put your fixed blade knife- leg, arm, gear, belt? What's the best way to swing a dead rifle- proper buttstroke, ore baseball that poo poo? Volumes of unanswerable questions of misery. The funniest part is the answer is always, ALWAYS the same- "Situationally Dependent". In other words, "gently caress it, We'll do it live". When in Iraq, I bought one of the Cold Steel Repro 'Spetznaz' shovels. You can definitely loving kill someone with it. I used it to just gently caress up lumber and sandbags, and throw like a hatchet, but I have no doubts that it is more than capable in melee.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 18:27
|
|
|
bulletsponge13 posted:A Korean War Vet who won the Silver Star once gave me advice for fighting with a US Entrenching Tool- "Keep in an L, and go for under the chin. You'll cleave a face right off." I nodded solemnly, because dude had the real life experience. I never confirmed the number, but the common held belief was he killed 12 Chinese troops on a hilltop with his shovel when his unit overrun. I don't think it really matters much, but I am not going to argue with weirdo church pastor who had a painting of him killing Chinese soldiers with a shovel in his office. For reference, here's a WW2 US field shovel/entrenching tool. I carried one of these (stamped "US AMES 1942") in Norwegian basic training in 2002, though I think our actual field troops use something more compact and lightweight. I've chopped tree roots and hacked off a padlock with one and it didn't even dent the edge. I've got a picture of the one I had in genuine 2002 digital camera quality somewhere - but this one I found on google is obviously nigh identical apart from the markings.  My mom carries one in the trunk of her car in case she needs to hack away some ice or snow to get out of a parking space. Computer viking fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Mar 5, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 18:32
|
|
|
Keep in an L?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 18:32
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:Keep in an L? The blade of the shovel folds. In an L means to lock it down at a 90 degree angle.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 18:34
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:Keep in an L? The whole thing folds, even the blade. It can be locked into an L shape like a garden hoe Efb but here's an image to get the idea. The spike isn't on ones I've ever seen, but otherwise this: 
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 18:34
|
|
|
edit: answered above.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 18:34
|
|
|
Like this. e: I'm slow. Though this one is closer to the right model.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 18:36
|
|
|
sounds like Russia took the L
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 18:36
|
|
|
Christ that's basically a war pick at that point
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 18:40
|
|
|
kemikalkadet posted:Maybe not exactly what you’re after but Perun on YouTube does very detailed deep dives on specific topics around the war. It’s more high level stuff than day to day happenings but they’re always great. I think he’s some kind of defence analyst from New Zealand that makes them in his spare time. Excellent I can listen to it through the car.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 18:41
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:Keep in an L? You can unfold the blade 90 degrees usually, instead of unfolding it 180 degrees.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 18:45
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:Christ that's basically a war pick at that point Correct.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 18:56
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:Christ that's basically a war pick at that point I own an original WW2 US entrenching tool and I actually hosed it up trying to get a buried glacial boulder out of the way but rebent it. It's fairly handy overall.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 20:28
|
|
|
One thing I’ve never understood is why they don’t make versions with extendable shafts. Wouldn’t more leverage make for easier digging?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 20:29
|
|
|
Yeah, but the leverage puts a pretty force on the expanding joint so it’s… not great. Edit: you can find a variety of extendable shovels people keep in their trunks for snow, they’re not great with anything heavier.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 20:35
|
|
|
I assume it's because it's extra weight and a point of failure.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 20:35
|
|
|
on a pretty fundamental level an entrenching tool is intended to be an entirely different tool from a full sized spade, despite both fundamentally being about moving dirt out of a hole
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 20:38
|
|
|
In early 2000's they still taught in FDF that in case we had to go to a "real war" you should keep the edge of your foldable shovel sharpened in case you need hand-to-hand weapon as the traditional puukko, a relatively short knife, wasn't going to be enough. And puukko was really also something they expected reserve corps to bring from home with them mostly as a camping and food-making tool.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 20:39
|
|
|
Was still a thing in late 2000s. During my time as a private we were required to keep our shovel in the L-shape and within arms reach at all times during field practice. Which was a bit weird considering most of us became mortar crew members. The war in Ukraine has shown that our instructor might have been right. Also , that thing was an excellent tool for chopping up fire wood.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 20:49
|
|
|
And now I need to go find that video of the Chinese multipurpose shovel again. This video is a thing of beauty: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ryyAenmzHM
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 21:07
|
|
|
The shovel knows what it is by not knowing what it isn't
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 21:10
|
|
|
Comrade Blyatlov posted:Christ that's basically a war pick at that point I think there are stories from conflicts where finding a sharpened edge on a field shovel means immediate execution of the captured soldier right there and then.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 21:25
|
|
|
Turrurrurrurrrrrrr posted:I think there are stories from conflicts where finding a sharpened edge on a field shovel means immediate execution of the captured soldier right there and then. I think that's just an excuse to execute the POWs as like said, for example that FDF foldable shovel is really sturdy, and sharpening an edge to its side makes it an excellent tool to make kindling, or split the larger pieces into something that works on the smaller stoves. Next: every POW that does not surrender their spork on command. But I've actually heard the same stories.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 21:30
|
|
|
Turrurrurrurrrrrrr posted:I think there are stories from conflicts where finding a sharpened edge on a field shovel means immediate execution of the captured soldier right there and then. Imagine if they found a soldier with a gun!
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 21:52
|
|
|
I find the FDF saying the Pukko isn't enough for fighting amusing, solely because I think that argument is happening in every army in the world at this moment, because it was a never-ending useless debate when I was in. (Science I've seen says if you want to poke holes in important bits, 6" blade is minimum to reach critical vitals.) Chris Ryan, the only member of the infamous Bravo Two Zero patrol in the Gulf War to Escape and Evade, claims that that it was debated among the patrol, with the consensus being his folding knife wasn't enough. If his account is to be believed, it was enough when he needed it.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 22:26
|
|
|
Tiny Timbs posted:Imagine if they found a soldier with a gun! Doesn't all quiet on the western front(an older version of it)have something about serrated bayonets?
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 22:43
|
|
|
Deploying to GW1 we all thought the gerber stilleto was the thing to have but it was expensive so I don’t know anyone that actually bought one. Especially since you could get a ka-bar if you knew someone in supply or wanted to spend like 20 but at the PX.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 22:44
|
|
|
Tiny Timbs posted:Imagine if they found a soldier with a gun! What about a shovel you can put on a gun? 
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 22:46
|
|
|
Flikken posted:Doesn't all quiet on the western front(an older version of it)have something about serrated bayonets? Yes, which also includes talking about using the shovel as a weapon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tz96u4h6424
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 22:57
|
|
|
If anyone remembers the show Deadliest Warrior there was an episode, Green Berets vs Spetsnaz, where for melee weapons the GB had the e-tool while the Spetsnaz had some auto knife throwing thing. Green Berets lost lol, this was also like a decade+ ago when the world believed the bullshit Russia was putting out. I have only heard of one incident where an e-tool was almost used. In 2006 (or 7 I don't remember) our alpha company had a COP get overran by Taliban. Some guys were telling a story how they were out of ammo so they hid in a bunker or something with a door and basically everyone inside armed themselves with something, knives and e-tools from what I recall. They said they could hear the Taliban outside but they never entered, just stole a 240B and bounced. A lot of this is second hand so not 100% sure of the events but the 240B getting stolen I have heard enough that that should be true. Apparently SF went to the border and bought it back.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 22:57
|
|
|
Murgos posted:Deploying to GW1 we all thought the gerber stilleto was the thing to have but it was expensive so I don’t know anyone that actually bought one. I bought a Eickhorn knife and on the spur of the moment got the dagger version with the double edged blade. It was a total pain in the arse and I always felt on the verge of cutting myself when doing advanced tactical string-cutting and cardboard-box-opening Nice thing though:  https://www.eickhorn-solingen.de/epages/62631327.mobile/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/62631327/Products/825132/SubProducts/825132
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 22:57
|
|
|
EorayMel posted:What about a shovel you can put on a gun? Put that to your assault rifle and start digging a firing position, and you'd be glad that the enemy got you before the armory sergeant.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 22:58
|
|
|
Tiny Timbs posted:Imagine if they found a soldier with a gun! Wrong Theory posted:If anyone remembers the show Deadliest Warrior there was an episode, Green Berets vs Spetsnaz, where for melee weapons the GB had the e-tool while the Spetsnaz had some auto knife throwing thing. Green Berets lost lol, this was also like a decade+ ago when the world believed the bullshit Russia was putting out.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 23:07
|
|
|
EorayMel posted:What about a shovel you can put on a gun? https://i.imgur.com/wuSOW6Q.gifv
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 23:13
|
|
|
Deadliest Warrior was pro tier drunk watching. It's like someone paid to make my middle school lunch debates a thing.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 23:16
|
|
|
Don't forget the IRA vs Taliban and/or Theodore Roosevelt vs Lawrence Of Arabia Deadliest Warrior episodes
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 23:18
|
|
|
EorayMel posted:What about a shovel you can put on a gun? Request ambiguous, result: 
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 23:19
|
|
|
Wrong Theory posted:If anyone remembers the show Deadliest Warrior there was an episode, Green Berets vs Spetsnaz, where for melee weapons the GB had the e-tool while the Spetsnaz had some auto knife throwing thing. Green Berets lost lol, this was also like a decade+ ago when the world believed the bullshit Russia was putting out. The funniest thing to me is that Spetznaz does have a ballistic knife, but it's a single shot 7.62x41mm round in the handle. It fires out of the "pommel" side, so you very much still have a blade. It's called the NRS-2. The knife that was in Deadliest Warrior is/was made by an American company and uses a giant rear end spring to launch the blade making it pretty awful as a weapon. The fact the fact checkers (lol they didn't have those) or the Spetsnaz expert, Sonny Puzikas, didn't pick up on that calls the entire episode into question. One thing I won't question is Sonny's ability to shoot a man in training, he's a champ at that.
|
|
#
?
Mar 5, 2023 23:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 11:44 |
|
|
Flikken posted:Doesn't all quiet on the western front(an older version of it)have something about serrated bayonets? Yep, the fact that Pioneer and artillery troops on both sides had serrated bayonets, as was the fashion at the time, for clearing brush was ignored.  edit: learn to proofread. Just Another Lurker fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Mar 6, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 6, 2023 00:00
|
|