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I was so disappointed when he agreed with Ziyal that Garak's hot in In Purgatory's Shadow and realised it was Changeling Bashir II talking and not him
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Mar 6, 2023 19:53
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END CHEMTRAILS NOW posted:And if you were Cardassian, you'd definitely prefer Sisko. Picard doesn't even know how to count to five. an alternate ending where the cardassian guy realizes there was just a bug in their universal translators and he was just trying to establish that he would tell the truth the whole time
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Mar 6, 2023 19:54
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No Dignity posted:I was so disappointed when he agreed with Ziyal that Garak's hot in In Purgatory's Shadow and realised it was Changeling Bashir II talking and not him This is honestly even better, because it means even the Founders can tell he’s got the horn
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Mar 6, 2023 19:57
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END CHEMTRAILS NOW posted:And if you were Cardassian, you'd definitely prefer Sisko. Picard doesn't even know how to count to five. Sisko: AND ANOTHER THING Cardassian: *breathing heavy* yeah? Sisko: GET THE HELL OUT OF MY OFFICE Cardassian: oh. actually, um, do you mind if I stay sitting for a few moments longer *picks up baseball* so uh, baseball huh. what's that all about?
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Mar 6, 2023 20:03
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zoux posted:Like Kira is way more "Maquis" toward Sisko in the first few episodes than Chakotay was through the whole run of Voyager. And he was right back "Go over my head again and I'll have your head" is so not a thing you'd expect the main commander in a ST series to say. DS9 was basically a template for how to do mixed crews in a way that was interesting but still very Star Trek-y. Voyager's writers pretty clearly didn't have the confidence to handle crew conflict without making it antagonistic and mean (just look at the holodeck mutiny sim episode), so they just melted everyone into a bland Starfleet instead.
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Mar 6, 2023 20:09
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That DICK! posted:an alternate ending where the cardassian guy realizes there was just a bug in their universal translators and he was just trying to establish that he would tell the truth the whole time "Guldamn it, one of the lightbulbs burnt out again."
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Mar 6, 2023 20:16
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Bajorans on DS9 were very different, there was always the potential for conflict lurking in the background because of the different priorities of Bajor and the Federation. Its the external factors that made the mixed crew interesting. If you plopped Kira in as the first officer of Voyager, she wouldn't be much more compelling than Chakotay - the only conflicts she would have would be almost entirely personality- or preference- based. No Kai Winn plotlines, no lingering scars of occupation plotlines, no grudges with a threatening empire because all that stuff had been left behind in the Alpha Quadrant. ultimately Chakotay's Maquis were just 'War Crimes Starfleet' so their only role was to be wrong about things. Which works for a few episodes but they have to be right about something for there to be interesting conflicts and tensions. loving Neelix had more conflict with the crew than the Maquis did, because Neelix had links outside Voyager.
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Mar 6, 2023 20:34
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They did one episode where they really looked into Maquis/SF friction, the one where Chakotay decks that guy. And it was pretty good! But I guess they counted everything as resolved after that.
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Mar 6, 2023 21:15
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zoux posted:the one where Chakotay decks that guy. I don't have a ton to put behind this, but that bit drives me nuts. The Maquis were former Federation citizens or otherwise neutral colonists with some semblence of community and organization. Then Chakotay's like "Want to handle it like in the Maquis?" and decks the guy, I do'nt know Chakotay, I have trouble believing that's how the Maquis handled it. Like some sort of stereotypical street gang fight or orks fighting to see who da biggest and da baddest is? If I were Tuvok, I would have simply beaten up every Maquis officer above me in hand to hand combat and then given the order to surrender.
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Mar 6, 2023 21:24
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MikeJF posted:Have the progressive houses join and the dub houses just form a failing bass drop ftfy
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Mar 6, 2023 22:11
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MillennialVulcan posted:I don't have a ton to put behind this, but that bit drives me nuts. The Maquis were former Federation citizens or otherwise neutral colonists with some semblence of community and organization. Then Chakotay's like "Want to handle it like in the Maquis?" and decks the guy, I do'nt know Chakotay, I have trouble believing that's how the Maquis handled it. Like some sort of stereotypical street gang fight or orks fighting to see who da biggest and da baddest is? I got the sense that the Maquis were the sketchier elements of that population. Oh and about 50% starfleet washouts.
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Mar 6, 2023 22:17
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END CHEMTRAILS NOW posted:And if you were Cardassian, you'd definitely prefer Sisko. Picard doesn't even know how to count to five. lol I'm stealing this.
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Mar 6, 2023 22:19
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zoux posted:Memory Alpha seems like it is on another tier from the rest of the fan wikis. I like to read the entries on episodes after I watch them, they have so much BTS stuff in them. On the other hand: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Breast But I guess there's always got to be a few weirdos.
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Mar 7, 2023 00:55
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Kibayasu posted:On the other hand: https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Breast look if you're a long running sci fi franchise, your wiki needs a page to explain titties, its the law.
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Mar 7, 2023 01:25
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Arivia posted:why do robots have GENDER Gender is a mechanical construct.  Thanks folks, I'll show myself out!
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Mar 7, 2023 01:32
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My gender is a spheroid region 705 meters in diameter
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Mar 7, 2023 02:20
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We've never needed a gender before.
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Mar 7, 2023 03:34
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Where we’re going, we don’t need genders
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Mar 7, 2023 03:35
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I watched All Good Things... and I realized that I had seen it before. In fact, because of the bookending parallels between it and the pilot, I remembered it as the pilot because of it's use of the Q courtroom stuff. I recognized that scene where Q takes Picard to the origins of life on primordial Earth and when I watched the actual pilot (years ago now at the start of this TNG marathon) I was confused as that scene wasn't in it. As a finale, it's kind of flat? It's a lot of jumping around with not an ample amount of substance but the concept is quite strong. Riker's conflict with Worf and Troi made me realize that I've never had that moment where Riker felt like a confident capable character. He's always been in the shadow of Picard and his arc over the entire show didn't amount to much? He hit his climax in The Best of Both Worlds and even then he didn't come off as that competent.
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Mar 7, 2023 03:41
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DoubleCakes posted:As a finale, it's kind of flat? I mean, there's a first time for everything, but I have never seen All Good Things... referred to as "flat."
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Mar 7, 2023 03:50
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DoubleCakes posted:I watched All Good Things... and I realized that I had seen it before. In fact, because of the bookending parallels between it and the pilot, I remembered it as the pilot because of it's use of the Q courtroom stuff. I recognized that scene where Q takes Picard to the origins of life on primordial Earth and when I watched the actual pilot (years ago now at the start of this TNG marathon) I was confused as that scene wasn't in it. riker doesn't really have an arc, that's true; he's the first officer, his job can basically be boiled down to "enforcer" for captain picard. basically once a decision is reached, it's up to him to get the crew to fall in line i guess there's an argument to be made that that is riker's arc, though. he's given promotions several times, just to decline them. he even comments in BoBW that he's resenting becoming too comfortable in that position ...which is fine imo. i can relate to that a lot, actually: when i was younger i was much more ambitious, slowed down a bit with experience, and got stuck in something of a rut as well, lol. it might not be the most dramatic arc, but it's certainly a realistic one Timby posted:I mean, there's a first time for everything, but I have never seen All Good Things... referred to as "flat." lol right? "all good things..." is a fantastic episode, and i do have some complaints about it, but it's certainly not boring. the jumping around is intentional, Q is loving with picard so that he can properly put him "on trial". saving humanity is incidental, i guess thematically it's on point, and as a narrative device it was effective enough that  cribbed from it for some desmond episodes (i don't remember which ones specifically, iirc there are at least a few)
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Mar 7, 2023 05:11
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AGT isn’t just one of the best Trek series finales, it’s one of the best series finales in general and that’s a really hard thing to land.
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Mar 7, 2023 05:15
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Earlier in season 7 boy howdy is "Liaisons" an episode, aliens kidnap Captain Picard and do a Misery on him to learn about that weird human "love" thing sure is a plot.
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Mar 7, 2023 05:16
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All Good Things… is probably a top ten TNG episode for me and one of my favorite series finales. The premise is fun and has appropriately high stakes, we get a nice bookend with some resolution to Q’s relationship with Picard, we see possible futures for the main cast, and Picard joining the poker game is a very satisfying conclusion to his character.
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Mar 7, 2023 05:23
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Big Mean Jerk posted:AGT isn’t just one of the best Trek series finales, it’s one of the best series finales in general and that’s a really hard thing to land. yeah, agreed. i would have been happy with it as a bookend, the movies are in comparison a far worse continuation (and obviously picard is just heinous). the ending hits almost the perfect note: the show isn't really over, the crew has more adventures together. we just don't see them and that would have been completely fine
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Mar 7, 2023 05:23
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Beeftweeter posted:yeah, agreed. i would have been happy with it as a bookend, the movies are in comparison a far worse continuation (and obviously picard is just heinous). the ending hits almost the perfect note: the show isn't really over, the crew has more adventures together. we just don't see them no no no it’s not over until we get to see Picard ride a dune buggy and become a deadbeat dad for some reason
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Mar 7, 2023 05:27
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Big Mean Jerk posted:AGT isn’t just one of the best Trek series finales, it’s one of the best series finales in general and that’s a really hard thing to land. Series finales are incredibly hard to stick, yes. We've been blessed in recent years by Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul and a few other shows, but all too often series end with the creators crawling up their rear end and doing self-indulgent bullshit (looking at you, How I Met Your Mother). And even Trek doesn't have a great history with finales; Endgame and These Are The Voyages are dogshit, and What You Leave Behind falls apart in the second half. All Good Things..., though, is just a masterpiece in giving every character something to do, and reinforcing the overall theme of The Next Generation: The sky's the limit.
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Mar 7, 2023 05:29
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One of the reasons why "All Good Things" is so perfect is it manages to be a series finale for a series that doesn't have a definitive arc while still feeling like an ending for us, the audience when we know it's just a Tuesday for them. It's just a sublime microcosm of the characters that's telling us "they aren't done, but we're done following them and that's ok."
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Mar 7, 2023 05:34
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trek finales usually are terrible: "turnabout intruder" is misogynistic as all hell, "what you leave behind" is up its own rear end about being a send-off, "endgame" is just a mess, and "these are the voyages" isn't even an episode of enterprise, for gently caress's sake in comparison to those "all good things..." is a masterpiece. as noted it's not just the best trek finale, it's one of the best finales i've seen out of any series e: oh, i forgot "the counterclock incident". it's fine, actually. the story is a bit weird, and it doesn't really make logical sense, but i like to think more adventures also just happened off-screen until TMP Beeftweeter fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Mar 7, 2023 |
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Mar 7, 2023 05:45
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bull3964 posted:One of the reasons why "All Good Things" is so perfect is it manages to be a series finale for a series that doesn't have a definitive arc while still feeling like an ending for us, the audience when we know it's just a Tuesday for them. It wasn't just a Tuesday for Picard--Patrick Stewart is in literally every scene, and he was so exhausted that he started fighting with director Winrich Kolbe, which ultimately cost Kolbe the directing job on Generations--but, yes, otherwise, you said it far better than I could.
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Mar 7, 2023 05:46
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Timby posted:All Good Things..., though, is just a masterpiece in giving every character something to do, and reinforcing the overall theme of The Next Generation: The sky's the limit. To keep in genre, Babylon 5 had a fantastic ending. Two of them in fact. One picks up the characters 20 years later which was shot when they thought they were cancelled after S4, and another checking in on human history going forward ultimately a million years. Both were excellent, but the character driven one still made me tear up on a fifth viewing. "Oh look, the sun's coming up." Goddamnit.
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Mar 7, 2023 05:46
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bull3964 posted:One of the reasons why "All Good Things" is so perfect is it manages to be a series finale for a series that doesn't have a definitive arc while still feeling like an ending for us, the audience when we know it's just a Tuesday for them. It's pretty impressive that they managed to deliver a conclusion that included call-backs and nostalgia to the beginnings of the series in a way that worked within the continuity of the plot. Having Tasha back as well as the Season 1 uniforms and look was a cool touch.
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Mar 7, 2023 05:47
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Beeftweeter posted:trek finales usually are terrible: "turnabout intruder" is misogynistic as all hell, Turnabout Intruder is a horrible, misogynistic episode and emblematic of Gene Roddenberry's view of women, but it was produced in an era when "series finales" weren't really a thing (outside of The Fugitive in 1967). So while it was the final episode of The Original Series, it wasn't the series finale, if that makes sense. I'm not sure series finales really became A Thing until MASH in, what, 1983?
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Mar 7, 2023 05:49
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Beeftweeter posted:trek finales usually are terrible: "turnabout intruder" is misogynistic as all hell, "what you leave behind" is up its own rear end about being a send-off, "endgame" is just a mess, and "these are the voyages" isn't even an episode of enterprise, for gently caress's sake I wouldn’t even count Turnabout Intruder or TATV at this point. Turnabout wasn’t intended to be a finale and they were still filming it when the cancellation news came down. Plus Uhura’s not even in it. Hard to have a real finale without your whole cast. TATV isn’t even considered that season’s real finale by the actual cast and showrunner, it was total junk thrown together by Berman-Braga as a cap to the entire 87-05 era of Trek.
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Mar 7, 2023 05:51
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Penitent posted:Having Tasha back as well as the Season 1 uniforms and look was a cool touch. yeah it really was, the bridge redress, command division o'brien and the old worf wig were pretty neat too. excellent way of communicating what period of time it was without being explicit about it
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Mar 7, 2023 05:53
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Penitent posted:It's pretty impressive that they managed to deliver a conclusion that included call-backs and nostalgia to the beginnings of the series in a way that worked within the continuity of the plot. I appreciate them also having the restraint to not slip in a scene that was basically "Picard's actions in the past mean Tasha somehow lived and is now just here in the new version of the present". A schmaltzier show would have done that.
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Mar 7, 2023 05:57
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Timby posted:Turnabout Intruder is a horrible, misogynistic episode and emblematic of Gene Roddenberry's view of women, but it was produced in an era when "series finales" weren't really a thing (outside of The Fugitive in 1967). So while it was the final episode of The Original Series, it wasn't the series finale, if that makes sense. Big Mean Jerk posted:I wouldn’t even count Turnabout Intruder or TATV at this point. yeah true. personally i always thought "all our yesterdays" was probably way more appropriate as a finale, even if it wasn't intended as such either; it has the same "not the whole cast" problem, but it'd be a way more fitting conclusion than "turnabout intruder", which doesn't even really have any redeeming characteristics of note as for "these are the voyages", yeah, i don't even really consider it an episode of enterprise, it barely keeps up the pretense that it is one. similarly they could have stopped with "terra prime" and i think people would have been far less pissed off
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Mar 7, 2023 05:57
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nine-gear crow posted:I appreciate them also having the restraint to not slip in a scene that was basically "Picard's actions in the past mean Tasha somehow lived and is now just here in the new version of the present". A schmaltzier show would have done that. I'm surprised they managed to also keep themselves from somehow shoehorning Sela into the finale considering they already had Denise Crosby. I'm really glad they had Andreas Katsulas reprise Commander Tomalak.
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Mar 7, 2023 06:09
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I think All Good Things and Futurama's The Devil's Hands Are Idle Playthings are quite probably the two best series finales of all time, almost certainly for non-serialized shows, and for basically the same reasons. * They're both excellent episodes of their series in their own right. * They both serve as microcosms of all the major themes, ideas, and messages of their respective series. * They provide a sense of finality and closure and serve as a fitting capstone to their series. * But they also feel open. The adventures continue, but we will not, and don't need to, see them. "Oh, Picard, the trial never ends." * They are both retroactively shat on by the series being brought back from the death by vastly inferior pretenders.
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Mar 7, 2023 07:30
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Angry Salami posted:We've never needed a gender before. Gender and gender! What is gender!
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Mar 7, 2023 07:58
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