(Thread IKs:
weg, Toxic Mental)
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steinrokkan posted:Not another CoLoR rEvOlUtIoN The same color as Putin's morning dump: red-brown.
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 04:28 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 13:40 |
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do we have any poles in here? I stopped by the beer store and wanted to try some new beer so I got a couple pint bottles of Okocim based solely on their slogan "O.K. Beer", it's p good IMO. Kurwa!
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 04:37 |
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Comstar posted:Is that because the Russian tanks are pretty much stationary? Russian tank warfare hasn't changed much since gorzny v1. Run up in a line the. Try to space out at the contact line. If you blow up the front tank and the rear tank the tanks end up crunching into each other trying to all move out into a line. Some go forward some try to go back etc there isn't much coordination. Russia has never had a great and vast NCO corp to make soldiers not idiots. All of these issues are part that and also part of being an army under a paranoid authoritarian State. Success is hampered by fear of backstabbing and jealousy. Tank warfare requires strong command and control and a lot of field ingenuity based on local areas topography ala best placement, best location for attack, synchronized infantry assaults to give tanks breathing room. As well as strike craft and now drone Intel. Combine arms warfare is NOT for an army with no ncos to speak of.
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 04:39 |
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https://twitter.com/Flash_news_ua/status/1633239944633229313
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 04:48 |
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I know the city took a beating but I'm still somewhat surprised it took this long, since Russia retreated months back.
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 04:59 |
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Cicero posted:I know the city took a beating but I'm still somewhat surprised it took this long, since Russia retreated months back. Kharkiv is very close to the border with Russia, Belgorod is only 80km away
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 05:01 |
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Noel's update is longer today. Here's the OP and some maps https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1633241721415794688?t=CNY6NSVSLk-hHKwsO04Itg&s=19 https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1633241755746291712?t=W-tYsl35caAQ7xsmEYlelA&s=19 And some prisoners came home! https://twitter.com/NOELreports/status/1633135428894183427?t=8BRZPhY0u6Lt82lBCCrtsA&s=19
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 05:04 |
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Roblo posted:Brave bastard. His name is going to get remembered. Cool. what is it
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 05:17 |
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 05:20 |
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https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1633075716760690689
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 05:21 |
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Deadly Ham Sandwich posted:Brits wish they had squirrel. Now they're so broke they are eating fish 'n chips without the fish. Just the chips. And no that's not hyperbole. Brexit really hosed over fishing hard. not even the chips! They're eating scraps! The leftover part of the deep fried batter at the end who has no potato now?!
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 05:25 |
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HonorableTB posted:do we have any poles in here? I stopped by the beer store and wanted to try some new beer so I got a couple pint bottles of Okocim based solely on their slogan "O.K. Beer", it's p good IMO. Kurwa!
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 05:33 |
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zone posted:https://twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1633187365299662848 Go home idiots
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 05:47 |
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some plague rats posted:Cool. what is it https://news.yahoo.com/details-life-tymofiy-shadura-shot-152500664.html actually thats wrong: "Oleksandr Matsievsky" https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1633745091054432256 Flavahbeast fucked around with this message at 07:36 on Mar 10, 2023 |
# ? Mar 8, 2023 05:48 |
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Icochet posted:Go home idiots Run in any direction and you are likely going to do better than what the army admin has in plan for you.
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 05:48 |
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By the way, in response to 'negotiations ends wars, not weapons', I dunno, maybe someone could tell Russia that. I mean, in reply to negotiations they tried to attack Kyiv directly and assassinate the Ukrainian government. So it sounds like they're the ones intending on using weapons to end the war.
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 05:53 |
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This is the most Gen-X thing to ever exist. It oozes 1993 Seattle grunge scene (I live here)
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 05:56 |
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Oscar Wilde Bunch posted:For all the Nordstream chat, if they wanted to keep using it, couldn’t they just, like, repair it? In the day somebody explained that when there's such a catastrophic breach and the whole pipe is infiltrated with sea water for any amount of time, it pretty much requires a complete rebuild.
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 05:56 |
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Oscar Wilde Bunch posted:For all the Nordstream chat, if they wanted to keep using it, couldn’t they just, like, repair it? As I understand it the biggest issue with that is seawater ingress into the pipelines due to there being, yknow a giant gaping hole in them. As you can imagine the sea water causes major corrosive damage so the sections of pipe that were affected need to be replaced. As far as how long the affected sections are, I don't know. I don't know if there are any shutoff valves and at what intervals they're situated. Maybe the entire pipeline is affected and it all needs to be replaced? The Russians have a pipe laying vessel (Fortuna) and a pipe production plant in Chelyabinsk so they might be able to do a lot of the work themselves, but remember that Nord Stream is a large part made using western technology, which they've lost access to. So they very likely won't be able to without outside help. Also, if you remember when Russia was still using """Maintenance""" of NS1 as an excuse to blackmail Germany into opening NS2 by starving them of gas, they had a whole bit about a compressor that they couldn't get due to sanctions. You know, the compressor that was made by German company Siemens and was being serviced in Canada. My point being that they simply don't have the required domestic capability to support the pipelines. As long as there are sanctions, they can't do anything to fix NS. And even if by some miracle they were to be lifted, Germany isn't ever trusting Russia with their energy security ever again, so Nord stream is dead and buried.
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 06:02 |
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The bigger issue is that once the pressurization is lost at the depth the pipeline is running, it's hosed. When there's no gas flowing through they pump through pressurized methane to keep the water pressure from imploding the pipes. Blowing up the pipe understandably doesn't do much to help pressure implosion.
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 06:04 |
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More to the point: Why repair it if nobody is going to buy the gas? At least not any time soon. I think up until mid last year Russia probably could have withdrawn and relations would have returned to something like they were before the invasion. That's not happening now.
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 06:08 |
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A history of the strategic value of Bakhmut 24 January 2023 - "US and Western officials" quote:https://edition.cnn.com/2023/01/24/politics/ukraine-shift-tactics-bakhmut/index.html 7 February 2023 - Yehor Cherniev, a Ukrainian lawmaker and head of the Ukrainian delegation to the NATO parliamentary assembly quote:https://time.com/6253515/bakhmut-battle-ukraine-russia/ 4 March 2023 - U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin quote:https://www.voanews.com/a/us-defense-chief-says-ukraine-s-bakhmut-has-more-symbolic-than-strategic-value/6991380.html 6 March 2023 - "Analysts" quote:https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/ukraine-vows-to-hold-bakhmut-as-russia-continues-fight-to-capture-the-city 7 March 2023 - "Analysts" quote:https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/03/03/bakhmut-battle-ukraine-russia/ 7 March 2023 - "Military experts and close watchers of the Ukrainian battlefields" quote:https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-war-bakhmut-significance/32307329.html 7 March 2023 - "Analysts" quote:https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-64864496 7 March 2023 - Institute for the Study of War quote:https://www.euronews.com/2023/03/07/ukraine-to-continue-fight-for-bakhmut-as-russian-troops-struggle-to-make-gains 7 March 2023 - President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensky quote:https://edition.cnn.com/2023/03/07/europe/ukraine-volodymyr-zelensky-cnn-interview-bakhmut-intl/index.html
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 06:32 |
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Fixing the pipeline wouldn’t have been a huge deal when you take Europe’s industry into account. Destroying it is an empty gesture when there’s nothing dependent on it on the other side.
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 06:40 |
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I'm not sure what you're suggesting fizzy, do you think something holds a static strategic value which doesn't change based on shifting factors?
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 06:43 |
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https://twitter.com/mr_gh0stly/status/1633185095237480449 Sure, and I'm the king of Rainbow Candyland. Czar Monke I has no claim, historical or otherwise, over one single inch of Ukraine or Crimea. Cope all you want about it.
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 06:46 |
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when you're so Czarist you're Caesarist
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 06:49 |
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HonorableTB posted:I'm not sure what you're suggesting fizzy, do you think something holds a static strategic value which doesn't change based on shifting factors? I'm suggesting that pundits, think-tanks and "analysts" and/or the papers that report their views, are not always reliable or dependable. Do you think that the strategic value can change within the span of 1 week or 1 day from "little strategic importance" / "not intrinsically significant" to "Russian troops will have “open road” to capture key cities in eastern Ukraine if they seize control of Bakhmut"? The articles I quoted are not from pre-war or last year, they are from this year up to yesterday.
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 07:02 |
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fizzy posted:I'm suggesting that pundits, think-tanks and "analysts" and/or the papers that report their views, are not always reliable or dependable. Yes, I absolutely think that strategic value can change within the span of 1 week or 1 day. History, especially military history, is absolutely filled with examples of shifting strategic priorities based on conditions that arose on short or no notice In this case though, the shifting strategic importance is one of political importance as well. IE, it didn't become important, until it did. It became important when it became a way to cause 5 Russian casualties for each Ukrainian and the value of Bakhmut shifted to exhausting the Russian offensive, which it has now done. Military obfuscation was also at work. A good number of the articles you linked were intended and direct misdirection, I would say. HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 07:11 on Mar 8, 2023 |
# ? Mar 8, 2023 07:07 |
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HonorableTB posted:Yes, I absolutely think that strategic value can change within the span of 1 week or 1 day. History, especially military history, is absolutely filled with examples of shifting strategic priorities based on conditions that arose on short or no notice That may be true, but in this case, the strategic value of Bakhmut (as elucidated by Zelensky) lies in its proximity and road connections to other cities in eastern Ukraine. That geographical location and those roads were not created or changed within the span of a week or a day.
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 07:10 |
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Excuse me, Crimea actually belongs to Finland.
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 07:13 |
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fizzy posted:That may be true, but in this case, the strategic value of Bakhmut (as elucidated by Zelensky) lies in its proximity and road connections to other cities in eastern Ukraine. That geographical location and those roads were not created or changed within the span of a week or a day. Your point is valid for sure. The location and such didn't change. What changed in this case was Ukraine realizing the Russian military was willing to pay an utterly insane butcher's bill to take the city and the Ukrainian army seems to be more than happy to let them do that since it's also taking all of their strategic initiative out of the picture for this offensive. I also still believe that Bakhmut's value was artificially inflated to distract from a Ukrainian counteroffensive in Zaporizhzhia. Blowing up Bakhmut's value into something it isn't is a great way to get a whole bunch of Russian troops moving over there to try and take it, meaning they aren't in the south.
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 07:13 |
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fizzy posted:That may be true, but in this case, the strategic value of Bakhmut (as elucidated by Zelensky) lies in its proximity and road connections to other cities in eastern Ukraine. That geographical location and those roads were not created or changed within the span of a week or a day. I think Zelensky might have motivations to make statements that, say, would keep Russia slamming its dick in the car door regardless of whether he felt them to be literally true.
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 07:14 |
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tiaz posted:I think Zelensky might have motivations to make statements that, say, would keep Russia slamming its dick in the car door regardless of whether he felt them to be literally true. That's an uncomfortable line of thinking, though, since it implies that other official statements about the state of the war may also be exaggerated or downplayed to lure or motivate Russia into taking sub-optimal actions. Inflate enemy casualty figures and downplay own-side casualty figures to demoralise the opponent and incentivise Ukraine's allies to keep up their arms supplies, exaggerate battlefield successes for the same purposes, and so on. Unfortunate implications all around. It's much more plausible that Zelensky is spitting straight facts and that pundits are generally just pulling words out of their rear end to fill article inches and get TV appearance invitations.
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 07:25 |
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fizzy posted:That's an uncomfortable line of thinking, though, since it implies that other official statements about the state of the war may also be exaggerated or downplayed to lure or motivate Russia into taking sub-optimal actions. Inflate enemy casualty figures and downplay own-side casualty figures to demoralise the opponent and incentivise Ukraine's allies to keep up their arms supplies, exaggerate battlefield successes for the same purposes, and so on. Unfortunate implications all around. It's much more plausible that Zelensky is spitting straight facts and that pundits are generally just pulling words out of their rear end to fill article inches and get TV appearance invitations. well ... I have bad news for you, buddy. I mean, I can't know what's in his heart. He does have to carefully husband the perception that he generally tells the truth. He's done that very well and I do think he's usually being honest, but in general Ukraine definitely foments a (to them) desirable perception for the purposes of demoralizing Russians, securing continued Western support, domestic stability, and so on. Everyone does it. We do it all the time. To be clearer I'm not saying he's straight-up lying to you; HonorableTB's post was very good and maybe a less spicy way to put these things.
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 07:30 |
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fizzy posted:That's an uncomfortable line of thinking, though, since it implies that other official statements about the state of the war may also be exaggerated or downplayed to lure or motivate Russia into taking sub-optimal actions. Sorry to be blunt but I don't think anyone on either side is stupid enough to believe that everything Ukraine or Russia says through their leaders or media is being 100% earnest and honest all the time. Is there some war you're thinking of where either side was above dishonesty?
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 07:31 |
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I'd say, with my amateur understanding of the situation, that this is playing out something very similar to Severodonetsk from last year. After allowing the Russian offensive to culminate and overextend themselves, the Ukrainians counterattacked locally, inflicted heavy losses on the forces on that axis, particularly Kadyrov's gang of tiktokers, and only then retreated to other prepared positions, even though then as now they had to take quite a few losses themselves. This set up the correct conditions for what happened at Kharkiv later that year after they built up their men and weapons for that offensive. Among the pro-Russian military sources, such as Girkin, Murz, etc. they also suggest that a very similar situation is taking place around Bakhmut and formerly near Soledar. Russia simply blinded itself to the bigger strategic picture because Monke and his boyars were looking for something to sell as a win to the Russian people, who haven't really had a whole lot of that to boast about for a while until poo poo went down near both these towns, which stems from the orders given to Gerasimov, Prigozhin, and Shoigu to drive to the administrative borders of Donetsk and Luhansk oblasts by March 31 (a goal they've already failed, under the current circumstances.) Girkin himself complained, as did Prigozhin, that what was left of the best Wagner soldiers and core russian regular army units, especially the VDV, were currently suffering hideous casualties in terms of men and equipment. The mobiks have fared even worse. Operationally, according to this pair, the loss of any experienced soldiers or leadership in the assault units are often enough to force a retreat or complete failure of a group's objectives. What's worse is that all the assaults that were supposed to improve Russian conditions along the front (Kreminna/Svatove, Kupiansk, Vuhledar, Marinka, and Avdiivka) have all failed to greater or lesser degrees, in some cases catastrophically, resulting in the loss again of a great deal of men and equipment, which further leads to the weakening of defensive lines elsewhere as men and materiel have to be brought up to replace those lost in the failed attacks. There was even mention yesterday, I think, of equipment and men being moved from the Kreminna grouping to try reinforcing the battered units of RuAF around Bakhmut, resulting in a slowdown of the local offensives there. And finally, Murz mentioned, dripping completely with despair, that the new western trained and armed mechanized brigades of Ukraine would prove more than a match for those who were left after all the reserves that were meant for both attack and defense are being, or have been, lost in the futile, front-wide offensive attempts since the beginning of the year. Andrey Morozov posted:For 100+ years now, defense, when it exists and works, has been based on three things - experienced mid-level personnel, working communications that allow them to lead troops, that is, first of all, on communications personnel, on signalmen, and on artillery, that is, again, on experienced skilled gunners.
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 07:40 |
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Id like to see Russia absolutely go ape poo poo if finland claimed dynasty to the Roman Empire. It would be just so good..even jokingly. They'd go nuts. You'd see the Tsarism out on full display. Like you do with Russia's military investments. Something I had said in the beginning of the war is that if we saw Russians digging trenches they have completely lost. I feel like that is more true than ever. Has Russia has had to solidify their defenses they've done so haphazardly with men that are completely and utterly shattered. You have all the experienced people being sent into pointless assaults that result in their death and every single one of them is a brain drain on the Russian military. We talked a week or so ago. Right before the thread was closed, about colonels leading loving platoons. That's how stretched the Russian army is in terms of brain power. Zone, what's interesting about your quote is the part where they say you can counter the pmcs with large brigade / regiments because those pmcs can't field unit of those size at an equal experience level. It's a few shepherd dogs (Wagner) to a ton of sheep. They have to herd then into these mass attacks. Fortunately this does not work in defense, in defense everyone has to be pretty individually able to make the right decision quickly. That's just not happening because the training level is run up dig a hole and start shooting people, most don't get to the last step and die digging a hole. Sad poo poo. I feel for the Russian population, they're propagandized to hell and are being used for imperialist ains that will end with their deaths and shattered families, not the riches they believe they are owed. WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 07:53 on Mar 8, 2023 |
# ? Mar 8, 2023 07:44 |
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It's always been true that Bakhmut is a better fortified stronghold than the terrain behind Bakhmut. If Russia has enough strength to force Ukraine back from Bakhmut, then it also has enough strength to force Ukraine back from the less-defensible lines behind Bakhmut. So Ukraine's options are either 1) hold Bakhmut, 2) destroy enough of Russia's forces at Bakhmut that they cannot effectively advance further, or 3) get pushed back to Slovyansk and watch another small city get turned to rubble. When you're looking at a map of Ukraine playing armchair general, option #3 seems a lot more palatable than it does when you're sitting in the presidential office knowing that you have to answer to the people. The truth in the "analysts'" statements is that from a military perspective Ukraine can afford to fall back and let Russia exhaust itself faster over the greater distance. The truth in Zelensky's statement is that from a human perspective, Bakhmut is the best place to blunt the Russian advance before it overruns and destroys hundreds of thousands of additional homes.
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 07:52 |
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The talk of Russian tank brigades advancing in columns and getting bogged down over and over dredged up a memory of this article I read many years ago. https://20thcenturywargaming.wordpress.com/2013/06/16/why-cold-war-warsaw-pact-tactics-work-in-wargaming/ quote:Some Soviet weapons were largely inferior (perhaps at 2/3rds of the effectiveness of western weapons), in particular at long range. Their method of counter acting this was aiming to keep the advance moving in column until hit by effective enemy fire (e.g. first tank is blown up), then spend a minute forming into line abreast, followed by a charge. quote:The scene was set in a WWII aircraft hanger used by BAE Systems limited for some experiments on situational awareness on the modern battlefield. The game was played over a 1/300 scale model, representing a portion of West Germany near the ‘Hof Gap’, that was large enough to be walked on. It’s an interesting dive into older soviet doctrine and the logic behind it and why perhaps certain behaviours you keep seeing from the Russians are occurring. Old theory meeting modern reality.
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 08:11 |
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# ? May 30, 2024 13:40 |
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Okay, Russians are Romans now. Finally this war is justified!
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# ? Mar 8, 2023 08:19 |