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its ok to have things be a tolerable difficulty once in a while. like dsc.VodeAndreas posted:Yeah I've had only the LFR from two clears as a gun, I'm up to five of them including extra chest drops. was good to have you along for the ride! groups always make stuff more fun.
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Mar 12, 2023 09:16
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A buddy and i werent here for seraph but we did the nightfall weekly and got pretty comfortable with mob spawns and callouts and eating poo poo now and then. The last run he specd into warlock osteo strand and trivialized a lot of it while our third guy matchmaker gave us ran around and died a bunch. Idk what the answer is to bridge the gap between casuals and us supposedly hardcore players (lol i have a handful of raid clears and typically dont gently caress with master nightfalls or any of that junk) But im enjoying the content as it is and playing with friends who are also having fun.
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Mar 12, 2023 09:44
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https://twitter.com/SaltagreppoD2/status/1634666412898746369 I guess Saltagreppo wants Well nerfed now.
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Mar 12, 2023 10:03
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The interesting bit of that is unlike Rhulk his melee slams don't seem to affect the well, there's also apparently a bug where you can facetank his slam and melee him at the right time when he hits the ground to make him fairly passive and just follow you around occasionally poking you.
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Mar 12, 2023 10:46
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Pirate Jet posted:https://twitter.com/SaltagreppoD2/status/1634666412898746369 yeah as it turns out when you use the support super that's designed to increase your survivability so you can survive poo poo, you tend to survive poo poo thanks to your increased survivability from your support super kinda like how you can trivialize adds with an add-clear super or delete tough enemies with a burst super the moral of the story is when you use poo poo for its intended purpose, it tends to be pretty good at it it also helps when you use advanced game knowledge to bypass mechanics specifically intended to counter you
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Mar 12, 2023 11:43
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Mill Village posted:So I’m guessing this raid will probably be the easiest raid in the game without Contest mode? I reckon DSC will be easier mechanically but even the L-iest of LFG groups should be able to crank out a 2 phase on nezarec
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Mar 12, 2023 12:12
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arsenicCatnip posted:I reckon DSC will be easier mechanically but even the L-iest of LFG groups should be able to crank out a 2 phase on nezarec ...hold my ghost shell.
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Mar 12, 2023 13:50
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VodeAndreas posted:The interesting bit of that is unlike Rhulk his melee slams don't seem to affect the well, there's also apparently a bug where you can facetank his slam and melee him at the right time when he hits the ground to make him fairly passive and just follow you around occasionally poking you. think this has to do with map geometry. I dunno about everyone else but we did DPS on top of the raised platforms, and I think his attacks go under them rather than hitting the well's sword.
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Mar 12, 2023 15:24
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Kith posted:its ok to have things be a tolerable difficulty once in a while. like dsc. DSC is my favorite raid so this sounds good.
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Mar 12, 2023 16:03
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I'm curious to see how it shakes out on normal with, well, more normal groups. It sounds like most fights have "easy" roles, but it also sounds like encounters 2 and 3 can be heavy on the coordination, and encounter 2 in particular sounds like it could be frustrating for groups with the combination of coordination and the launchers.
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Mar 12, 2023 16:28
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Oxyclean posted:I'm curious to see how it shakes out on normal with, well, more normal groups. It sounds like most fights have "easy" roles, but it also sounds like encounters 2 and 3 can be heavy on the coordination, and encounter 2 in particular sounds like it could be frustrating for groups with the combination of coordination and the launchers. A good runner can probably solo encounter 1 and 2 runners can sweep encounter 2 & 4 before the wipe mechanics. Encounter 3 is the one that needs the most bodies if you want to run through it quickly but even then 2 runnners can just take 2 turns moving planets. Everyone else just needs to focus on add clears which should be MUCH easier on normal.
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Mar 12, 2023 16:33
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Oxyclean posted:I'm curious to see how it shakes out on normal with, well, more normal groups. It sounds like most fights have "easy" roles, but it also sounds like encounters 2 and 3 can be heavy on the coordination, and encounter 2 in particular sounds like it could be frustrating for groups with the combination of coordination and the launchers. This was my first contest mode clear and it still took my team six and a half hours, which makes me pretty apprehensive about ever trying another. I do suspect the reputation of "easiest raid" will die pretty fast once normal players get their hands on it.
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Mar 12, 2023 17:03
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Astrochicken posted:Idk what the answer is to bridge the gap between casuals and us supposedly hardcore players (lol i have a handful of raid clears and typically dont gently caress with master nightfalls or any of that junk) But im enjoying the content as it is and playing with friends who are also having fun. You have normal difficulty, which is normal and suitable for your average person. You have hard, which is a challenge and is suitable for people who want to push themselves. And here's the important thing - when you tune the difficulty upwards, you tune it upwards for hard, not normal. If you really want to welcome casuals in, you make an easy difficulty, for when people - like kith said earlier - just want to chill and play with fun guns in the fun guns game. Again this is absolute basic poo poo that every other game manages to do, but Bungie's design team seem fixated on the idea that hard difficulty is the difficulty everyone should aspire to and be funneled into playing, as opposed to an extra challenge for a small core of players who want more. And that's never been true in any game. The bulk of the playerbase in most games are casuals. And if Bungie are going to go hard on making a game that's just for poopsockers, they're going to find out exactly how toxic a fanbase can get when they're your core playerbase.
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Mar 12, 2023 17:23
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The fan base is already incredibly toxic as it is thanks to streamers
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Mar 12, 2023 17:41
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Pirate Jet posted:This was my first contest mode clear and it still took my team six and a half hours, which makes me pretty apprehensive about ever trying another. I do suspect the reputation of "easiest raid" will die pretty fast once normal players get their hands on it. yeah contest mode generally isn’t Fun in my experience and you need five other mindset freaks addicted to sunk cost and/or willing and able to keep their cool for as long as it takes, so I’m not upset about missing this one lol and you’re right about “easiest raid” stuff given I know a lot of people who this is their first FPS, or they have some kind of disability, and even more people who are FPSheads but too stupid and mean to do anything cooperatively lol
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Mar 12, 2023 17:43
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IMO it's fine if some stuff is "gated" behind harder difficulties. Stuff like raids, dungeons, and exotic missions are a sweet spot IMO, and is really nothing new for the game. And to that point, Seraph Station and The Variable are both pretty tough solo, but like, they're clearly intended to be soloed in a way Whisper or Zero Hour were not. I currently dont know how to feel about Legend The Variable. It seems like an astronomical step up from Legend Seraph Station. I'm curious to see Legend Variable with a full party - Seraph station being generally worse with more players was a big misstep that they maybe fixed if legend campaign was anything to go off of. I think offsetting difficulty with "bring some friends" is another fine way to do things. Stuff like heroic battlegrounds (the seasonal version, not the nightfall) being kind of spicy can actually make them a little more interesting/engaging and doesn't have to be purely a "catering to hardcores" since there's been countless complaints about how strikes and lower difficulty nightfalls end up as this thing where new players are just trying to keep up with experience players who are just mowing down everything. That said, it does feel like there's vanishingly few activities and things to do where you can be a little more loose and fun with your loadout. Strikes? Barely worth doing, and gives you only one surge to match your subclass to if you want the milestone. Heroic Nightfalls? Strongly encourages a proper loadout for survivability and champion counters. Heroic Campaign is basically the same Gambit? Probably want a decent loadout to avoid handicapping your team Neomuna Patrol and Lost Sectors? Everything is so beefy it feels bad to use a bunch of less meta guns. Dungeons, Raid and Exotic Missions all kind of encourage you to use loadouts appropriate to encounters. Dares I guess you can kind of get away with whatever.
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Mar 12, 2023 17:50
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Oxyclean posted:That said, it does feel like there's vanishingly few activities and things to do where you can be a little more loose and fun with your loadout. Yeah, this is the core of the problem- they are gradually eliminating the low effort, low commitment press butan shoot mans modes where you can dive in with whatever and have a good time. They're probably in for a rude awakening once it becomes clear how much of the audience wants to play the game casually at least some of the time and how little actually finds it rewarding to have to tweak their builds for every single activity.
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Mar 12, 2023 17:55
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FFXIV has matchmade raids and boss encounters that scale very well up to the poopsock-tier for the static groups and the bonus is that you can actually put your big story content in them since everyone can pull it off. I've been wanting an ultra casual lfr-tier thing in destiny for a while, you'd think the devs would want more than a fraction of their players seeing the content
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Mar 12, 2023 17:56
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Seperate difficulties, and stop gating anything except cosmetics and titles behind the higher difficulty. It's really simple, and every other game manages to do it. People got all gamer karen at the legendary campaign, I don't think separate difficulties will make them happy.
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Mar 12, 2023 18:02
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Oxyclean posted:
I soloed Legend Variable. In a trio, we could not make it past the first totem pole of the first encounter.
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Mar 12, 2023 18:17
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does it scale to party members like the legendary campaign?
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Mar 12, 2023 18:18
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Pretzel Rod Stewart posted:does it scale to party members like the legendary campaign? Yes! There are literally More enemies, and they have more health and they do more damage. It is so tremendously out of balance with other PvE Content in the franchise that I am confident we'll be gaining weapon upgrades that make it easier over time. This week there's just the 1 secret chest and also the 1 catalyst, right? I can't find any other secrets or ways to interact with those Immune Panes
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Mar 12, 2023 18:23
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I've been using this build and loving it: https://dim.gg/3n35niq/Void-Kelgorath It has pretty good survivability and is a lot of fun to just have everything blow up around you.
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Mar 12, 2023 18:28
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I know it's just whatever my sleep addled brain came up with, but it almost seems like since blimbum failed spectacularly in their effort to make crucru the mlg pro mode they were chasing, thanks to their own incompetence and infrastructure, that now they're swinging the dipshit bat at pve instead. Like was said above: they could make specific tiers for that but didn't ofc. Add to the that the game engine tuned for consoles 1-2 gens ago that struggles under its own weight, the p2p everything, and putting only life support focus on the game, it makes for a cacophony of fart and poop noises. Things have gotten "easier" now that I'm around 1815ish and using a better build, but still getting 2 shot (only because of the mod for resist after you lose shields) and having to duck behind cover way too much is tedious as hell. Leaving out the continued architect deaths from who even knows what and the getting booted into whatever pit or invisible death wall because every enemy can stomp and are all eating space Wheaties laced with PCP. Going off what they've said in the past about development, the other IPs, constantly going back on their word irt the way they run things, and then the eververse/playtime poo poo it just makes me remember the "greed is good" fiasco eve had. Anyways, tried to play on console a bunch yesterday. The fps/damage link is apparent but you still get merked sometimes for no good reason. I forgot how poo poo it is to get your reticle pulled away from your target because something passed by and drug it away, then miss both enemies by a mile when your timing fire the poo poo is off but finger already moving. Probably get back on PC tonight to actually do stuff but I can at least waste time on the couch. Not a fan of not being able to use strand on console since I only bought lf for PC but whatever. If it really becomes an issue I'll just grab it when it's on sale months from now.
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Mar 12, 2023 18:39
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:This week there's just the 1 secret chest and also the 1 catalyst, right? I can't find any other secrets or ways to interact with those Immune Panes Yup, that's all until reset. I wanna get my solo legendary done, just a personal goal really. I gave up the other day when I got physic'd to death 3 times in a row and from a cool and good bug where poo poo just stopped working. Not sure I care to chase solo flawless on this one, just depends on how the run goes the next few times. Speed clear may be right out, I haven't bothered to put effort into that yet.
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Mar 12, 2023 18:44
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Speed clear is very reachable, my solo flawless run was 32 minutes and a good player who puts effort into their build could easily reduce that Teaming up might actually slow you down just because of the greater aggregate hit points you have to chew through
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Mar 12, 2023 18:46
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It’s just so hard to tell what Bungie design philosophy is, when any change to the game represents what they were thinking a year ago, six months ago, a month ago, and now — blended together and then spit out into a sandbox that probably no individual developer at Bungie anticipates ahead of time
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Mar 12, 2023 18:58
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haveblue posted:Speed clear is very reachable, my solo flawless run was 32 minutes and a good player who puts effort into their build could easily reduce that Oh yeah, definitely not doing that in a team. My biggest stumbling blocks other than what I said before is the weird enemy healing and teleporting that got worse this past year. Can't tell you how many times that's caused me to lose time just to re-kill them. I've never had this issue in any other game and it makes me facepalm hard every time. loving glad it's mayhem week, that's been fun in short bursts just to lob poo poo everywhere and get some sneaky gun kills.
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Mar 12, 2023 18:59
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Spanish Manlove posted:People got all gamer karen at the legendary campaign, I don't think separate difficulties will make them happy. They're going to have to accept that not everyone is going to want to try legendary / master, and even people who do enjoy playing at that level aren't going to want to do that all the time.
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Mar 12, 2023 19:01
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Bobby Deluxe posted:which is having everyone play on the same difficulty and pushing players into legendary if they want the catalyst / exotic. I don't see the problem with this. There can be room for difficult things in games. This is also a massive rehash of every difficulty in games argument that has ever occurred where you either get people complaining that poo poo's too easy so why bother; people wanting harder content to make completion, and rewards from completion, more meaningful; and people who bring up a list of excuses on why they don't think content should be hard, such as "catering to tryhards, hardcores, streamers" or wanting to play casually and not put in effort. I hate it, and find it extremely tedious. This poo poo sucks and feels like I'm playing gin rummy with my grandma only every card has some scrubquote on it. However I do agree with some people's takes in that some of the difficulty scaling is really weird and doesn't make sense, like how legendary lost sectors right now are kinda bullshit a bunch of streamers lamented that the contest mode for the raid felt easier than doing the legendary campaign.
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Mar 12, 2023 19:19
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Spanish Manlove posted:People got all gamer karen at the legendary campaign, I don't think separate difficulties will make them happy. I have literally never seen this. The Witch Queen's Legendary campaign was practically universally praised and I think Bungie themselves said two-thirds of players who completed the game did it on Legendary.
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Mar 12, 2023 19:27
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Pirate Jet posted:I have literally never seen this. The Witch Queen's Legendary campaign was practically universally praised and I think Bungie themselves said two-thirds of players who completed the game did it on Legendary. True, but the LF legendary campaign is getting a very different reaction
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Mar 12, 2023 19:30
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haveblue posted:True, but the LF legendary campaign is getting a very different reaction Yeah, because it's a bad campaign, where the difficulty is tuned poorly. It's actually overall easier than WQ's except for bizarre difficulty spikes like Headlong and Calus. Difficulty is a thing you have to carefully manage and ramp up over the course of the campaign, it's not something where you can just turn the numbers up on enemy health and damage and then call it a day. The completion rate and praise for WQ Legendary pretty plainly shows that the playerbase is welcoming of difficult content, they're not welcoming of time-wasting bullshit. If saying that Lightfall's campaign is poorly designed makes me "gamer Karen" then fetch my hairspray I guess.
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Mar 12, 2023 19:34
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It's not hard, a loving difficulty slider like we already had in game solves this glaring issue. Instead of utilizing that for a rework they instead made everything colossally a pain in the rear end and changed the gameplay loop in a way that's seriously different and difficult for the vast majority of players. Sure, when you level your gear and get the builds set up it gets better, but they overcorrected so hard while changing massive functionalities and hardness. That's the rub though, they gutted the system and turned so many knobs at a time that the result is piss-poor. Are there plenty of us that can deal two weeks in? Sure, but most of the people in this thread have thousands of hours in game not to mention d1. What bungie made in years past vs what they just shat out is a different product almost and I think that's worth noting as a player. E: by difficulty slider I mean they change certain aspects of each level, not just bump health and damage etc.
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Mar 12, 2023 19:34
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haveblue posted:Teaming up might actually slow you down just because of the greater aggregate hit points you have to chew through V cool that the game that is so focused on being a cooperative game that you can't set yourself to offline in-game punishes you for... playing cooperatively
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Mar 12, 2023 19:41
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Only big fuckywucky I see is that Legend should be 1810 and have a 10 point delta Legend being Master Lite is quite silly
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Mar 12, 2023 19:42
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Pirate Jet posted:I have literally never seen this. The Witch Queen's Legendary campaign was practically universally praised and I think Bungie themselves said two-thirds of players who completed the game did it on Legendary.
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Mar 12, 2023 19:49
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I don't understand why this social, play with your friends shoot game forces you to solo difficult content to get better gear. If I could have a fire team help me through a master lost sector I'd have some sweet necrotic grips now, which means I'd be playing the new class with the new gun. Instead, voidwalkin again.
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Mar 12, 2023 20:02
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they are adding other means of acquiring exotics at some point (technically they already have with the vex incursion public event, but that's not targetable), so hopefully the long dark shame of lls will be gone this year just in time to vault destiny 2
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Mar 12, 2023 20:19
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magiccarpet posted:I don't understand why this social, play with your friends shoot game forces you to solo difficult content to get better gear. Not empty quotin' Watch out, lots of people this thread will tell you that LLS is "ezpz" and that you just need to "git gud" and that if you can't do LLS, "destiny might not be the game for you" 
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