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skooma512)
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Egg Moron posted:i'd do good too if i was connected to the internet i bet Keep in mind that the "crisis" all of these people who teach undergrad were freaking out about last year was that students were simply googling the answers. Now they're freaking out that ChatGPT will do their homework. Functionally, I don't see the difference. The students still aren't learning, except incidentally, and it's still obvious in their work, unless you are teaching a huge class and grading by scantron anyway. If anything, I think what this "proves" is a lot of high school and undergraduate education is still rote memorization that is then, as someone said up thread, queried for use on scantrons. The problem, and this has been pointed out to me in the AI art thread, is that the people most excited about this, talking to tech journalists etc. are people whose education consisted of doing the above, more or less, they found reading and writing boring, didn't care about art or literature, so of course a machine that can fill out multiple choice questions that are written to have very straightforward answers to be read and graded automatically by machine, or short answer questions written so a tired TA can quickly grade 200 of them, they're convinced that it understands idk loving by G. E. M. de Ste. Croix.
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Mar 15, 2023 20:41
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I'm doing my part trying to get a house in Austin lol at me
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Mar 15, 2023 20:42
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Banks are like the fainting goats, they look fine till you spook them and then they go into shock absolutely greatest system
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Mar 15, 2023 20:43
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Frosted Flake posted:Keep in mind that the "crisis" all of these people who teach undergrad were freaking out about last year was that students were simply googling the answers. Now they're freaking out that ChatGPT will do their homework. Functionally, I don't see the difference. The students still aren't learning, except incidentally, and it's still obvious in their work, unless you are teaching a huge class and grading by scantron anyway. If anything, I think what this "proves" is a lot of high school and undergraduate education is still rote memorization that is then, as someone said up thread, queried for use on scantrons. education is in an uproar over this, and as an educator I'm rooting for it because it will destroy the shambling corpse that is traditional scholasticism. find a different way to assess what kids know and can do, if you feel the need to still assess that. maybe it's not so important, but nobody wants that smoke
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Mar 15, 2023 20:44
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I can't wait for the next Zoltan note.
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Mar 15, 2023 20:45
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some of the more interesting CS updates from Bloomberg   and Matt Levine: 
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Mar 15, 2023 20:49
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the best and most useful class I had as an undergrad chemist was my 2nd semester of analytical chemistry where we were given a problem and we had to research and design an experiment. my group had to devise a low tech and a high tech test for proteins that had additional sugar molecules attached as a potential early biomarker for breast cancer. it wasn't just memorizing reactions and stuff it was actual science which is the point of a science education
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Mar 15, 2023 20:49
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I didn't mean to start a new page. One of my mentors once had to grade a 30 page paper written by a Hotep who had written "real" history of Egypt (in a class about the 6th century AD). Despite receiving an F, the student went over his professor's head to submit it to journals of antiquity, who promptly reached out to the school asking what the hell we were doing, which led to the school asking the department the same question. The department kept a copy of the paper, it's passed into legend and is still brought out whenever a new TA or adjunct is pulling their hair out or despairing at their students' work . In terms of how he strung together historical information, the quality of his prose, ability to marry form and substance, engage with the scholarship, show a grasp of good historical writing, ChatGPT might have an edge, but I think there's another argument. It's possible that we've been half-educating people, at least at the high school level, for a while. I've been told, though I don't know if I agree or not, that most students don't really learn these skills until their Masters. Paradoxically, it means they are getting into grad school on the basis of memorizing the answers to fill out on scantrons. So, you know, rather than ChatGPT becoming human, we've turned undergrads into ChatGPT and given up on really pushing them academically. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 20:56 on Mar 15, 2023 |
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Mar 15, 2023 20:52
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anime was right posted:may you live in interest-rate times
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Mar 15, 2023 20:52
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Paradoxish posted:You know everything is good when national regulators need to make daily announcements that everything is good, stable. It's because information (especially doomer poo poo) spreads like wildfire these days, thanks to social media. So frequent announcements are needed in order to balance out the constant "omg is everything collapsing???" tweets like this one:
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Mar 15, 2023 20:53
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Frosted Flake posted:They're having a liquidity crisis because they have to convert gold teeth and wedding rings into cash quickly. i'm selling these fine leather jackets
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Mar 15, 2023 20:54
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Frosted Flake posted:I didn't mean to start a new page. One of my mentors once had to grade a 30 page paper written by a Hotep who had written "real" history of Egypt (in a class about the 6th century AD). Despite receiving an F, the student went over his professor's head to submit it to journals of antiquity, who promptly reached out to the school asking what the hell we were doing, which led to the school asking the department the same question. The department kept a copy of the paper, it's passed into legend and is still brought out whenever a new TA or adjunct is pulling their hair out or despairing at their students' work . quoted for truth
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Mar 15, 2023 20:54
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college teaches you how to bullshit old white people and bully underpaid administrators and it doesnt matter if its google or chatgpt, as long as you learn the lesson
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Mar 15, 2023 20:58
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hopefully we save the banks by banning twitter
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Mar 15, 2023 20:59
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So was the AI correct on the 15th doomsday claim or what? I'm too poor to keep up with high societies financial shenanigans.
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Mar 15, 2023 20:59
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The Demilich posted:So was the AI correct on the 15th doomsday claim or what? I'm too poor to keep up with high societies financial shenanigans. Almost. One of the biggest banks in the world nearly had a run on it before the Swiss national bank said they would backstop it.
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Mar 15, 2023 21:03
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Al! posted:college teaches you how to bullshit old white people and bully underpaid administrators and it doesnt matter if its google or chatgpt, as long as you learn the lesson 
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Mar 15, 2023 21:04
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RC Cola posted:My company is talking about doing layoffs would you like to be a founder at my new startup? we are actively pursuing our series A and remain optimistic. the product is a reusable dog poo poo catching bag and the company is called Shittr.
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Mar 15, 2023 21:05
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never missed a bill but columbia gas keeps emailing me that they are there for me in troubled times
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Mar 15, 2023 21:05
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I was stuck working all day and I missed a lot of fun pretend it's lunchtime and I just posted Oops! All Crime Banks
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Mar 15, 2023 21:06
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Frosted Flake posted:In terms of how he strung together historical information, the quality of his prose, ability to marry form and substance, engage with the scholarship, show a grasp of good historical writing, ChatGPT might have an edge, but I think there's another argument. It's possible that we've been half-educating people, at least at the high school level, for a while. I've been told, though I don't know if I agree or not, that most students don't really learn these skills until their Masters. Paradoxically, it means they are getting into grad school on the basis of memorizing the answers to fill out on scantrons. Yeah this hits the nail on the head. We don't teach thinking skills alongside writing skills. Real writing is never so devoid of thought and context as what we ask students to write. So they learn to produce something that looks like writing but isn't. It presents ideas but doesn't require students to engage with those ideas. The reason ChatGPT blows teachers away and looks as good as student writing is because those students never really learned to write. Students can definitely get through high school without really learning to write, because writing instruction is geared toward standardized testing and five-paragraph essays, which are both simulacra of writing. It's also entirely confined to the humanities. Undergrad, at least in my experience, does try to go beyond that. But we're hampered by their poor starting position and the limited time we have with them. I assume there is also not a great WAC tradition in many institutions.
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Mar 15, 2023 21:06
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Credentialism was a consequence of the Supreme Court deciding employers couldn't give IQ tests to job applicants. The whole modern college system with its barely disguised IQ tests at entrance and graduation are mostly an elaborate work around for this.
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Mar 15, 2023 21:06
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Banks operate mostly on faith
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Mar 15, 2023 21:07
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my checks clear on a hope and a prayer 🙏
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Mar 15, 2023 21:08
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Subvisual Haze posted:Credentialism was a consequence of the Supreme Court deciding employers couldn't give IQ tests to job applicants. The whole modern college system with its barely disguised IQ tests at entrance and graduation are mostly an elaborate work around for this. Employers can absolutely give tests that are functionally equivalent to IQ tests to applicants, they just have to call it a "X Job competency test" or whatever and theyre golden
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Mar 15, 2023 21:10
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Well that was a fun day. I wonder what will happen tomorrow
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Mar 15, 2023 21:13
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gently caress, stop teasing me with a good time
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Mar 15, 2023 21:13
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Vox Nihili posted:Banks operate mostly on faith capitalism largely works like orks from 40k
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Mar 15, 2023 21:15
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I'm glad this thread seems to finally be getting what they want lol
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Mar 15, 2023 21:17
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the content we crave!
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Mar 15, 2023 21:17
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The very thick and stable adult bank, extremely wet and ready (for backing by the Swiss state financial authority)
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Mar 15, 2023 21:18
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Slow News Day posted:It's because information (especially doomer poo poo) spreads like wildfire these days, thanks to social media. So frequent announcements are needed in order to balance out the constant "omg is everything collapsing???" tweets like this one: this has 1600 likes. also I don't keep tabs of the 2 yr yield but this sounds right?
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Mar 15, 2023 21:23
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Do you think China has anything to do with the Saudi bank not giving CS more money alongside the whole Iran deal?
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Mar 15, 2023 21:26
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having a banking crisis not on US banking hours fees unamerican. What are they going to do? start collapsing again while the east coast is still asleep tonight?!
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Mar 15, 2023 21:27
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Yeah, lol at Bonesaw kicking this all off by cutting off Credit Sus
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Mar 15, 2023 21:28
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SourKraut posted:gently caress, stop teasing me with a good time number, stop teasing just gently caress me already i crave it
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Mar 15, 2023 21:28
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we need constant announcements from our leaders because DOOMERS are out there spreading messages like this
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Mar 15, 2023 21:29
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Oglethorpe posted:Do you think China has anything to do with the Saudi bank not giving CS more money alongside the whole Iran deal? In the sense that holding this particular bag was more politically advantageous when no one was talking about alternate world reserve currencies? Sure. Probably not like a phone call from Xi situation or whatever though
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Mar 15, 2023 21:29
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My brother is just finishing out his PhD, and he's been in a semester long fight with the department because students will fight tooth and nail over their grades now, despite their work not being very good, clearly copying each other, lazily plagiarizing etc. etc. The department wants them to be graded, not on a curve, but based on how good that work is for them, which seems paternalistic and condescending first of all, and requires him to somehow get to know 100+ students over the course of a semester. The advice he's getting is what I've heard people grumbling about elsewhere: forget academic integrity, or wissenschaft, or any of that poo poo, just get these kids out the door, degree in hand. Basically, a B now is a readable series of paragraphs in English that were not copy-pasted from wikipedia and communicate some sort of idea. They just want this cadre out, and hope that kids who finish high school in person post-pandemic will do better. I don't think that's likely, but it shows that with or without ChatGPT, things are not going well. One thing he said, he's in a more "scientific" field than I am, is that CS students in particular, engineers generally, see all school work more or less as problems that you work on collaboratively, calculate, copy the correct answer, whatever, rather than individual inquiry. So, as it was relayed to me, ChatGPT seems miraculous because it "knows" things the same way they do, it's just more efficient at looking it up. I don't mean to condescend, I have no idea how to code, I'm not good at math, precisely because those things require me to think differently than I'm used to. Theory, research and literature I like, calculations and process, I have no stomach for. If this is the difference between disciplines, with one taking the approach that problems are formulaic, there's an answer that just needs to be punched in, and the better you are at that the smarter you are, that makes sense. Because our economic system privileges one, and has probably privileged that mode of thought as well. If you are the kind of person who believes in min-maxing your life, sees education as job training and so the liberal arts as worthless, you aren't wrong. I mean, you are wrong of course, in how things should be, but writing brilliant essays does not get you hired out of university to make $100k a year. There are skills and patterns of thought than can get you recruited by a SV company, where you will use them to think in the same way, and make lots of money, further affirming how smart you are. It makes sense that these people are the ones who most believe ChatGPT has real intelligence, and also why they would be the ones taking its prediction of a market crash to heart. I don't mean to denigrate them per se, I can see how that happened. My wife graduated summa cum laude from three prestigious universities and has saved both her textbooks and some of her work. Now, I'm not saying I could be an economist, but you're writing papers in response to a textbook that argues: Microeconomics posted:When you finish university, your income will be determined largely by what kind of job you take. If you become a computer programmer, you will earn more than if you become a petrol station attendant. This fact is not surprising, but it is not obvious why it is true. No law requires that computer programmers be paid more than petrol station attendants. No ethical principle says that programmers are more deserving. What, then, determines which job will pay you the higher wage? Ideology aside, in my opinion that's not a university level reading and comes across as borderline insulting but that's what we're working with here, and the people who did really well in that class are considered the smartest in society. Which is appropriate, because if you believe they're the smartest, you probably also believe that the system described therein is the most fair and efficient allocation of resources. Those are the people who are talking about AI. Now of course, since I'm working from the assumption that belief in AI, success in the economic system and belief in the economic system are intertwined, basically because this is who the universities have been, if not incentivized to produce, than who find the greatest success after graduating, the AI predicting the economy will collapse to people who have a, shall I say antimaterialist worldview, is perfect because they're the most likely to believe it, their economic position is based on these beliefs, the economic position ensures that their actions will have consequences on the market as a whole. Yet, if they panic and tank the market, they will only understand that as a prophesy fulfilled because everything in their lives has led them to this point and they aren't going to question those assumptions. I mean, they're literally unable to comprehend real reasons why computer programers are paid more than gas station attendants other than they are smarter and better deserving, because that's more or less what they've been taught since Marx was driven from the academy, they're not going to change their entire understanding of society now. They'll just tank the markets and believe that it was cosmically ordained and foreseen by an oracle. Mind you, a gas station attendant probably wouldn't. Frosted Flake has issued a correction as of 21:40 on Mar 15, 2023 |
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Mar 15, 2023 21:29
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Woke Mind Virus posted:we need constant announcements from our leaders because DOOMERS are out there spreading messages like this just constant i mean constant or otherwise you might think this system is in distress
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Mar 15, 2023 21:32
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