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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I’m still confused as to what the gently caress “lockdown” means in the US. Nothing happened and if it drove you crazy that you couldn’t go to a restaurant or theatre, you were already fuckin crazy. There was no lockdown. There was about a month or two of actual "Stay the gently caress home" before the powers that be realized that was an issue because of money flow. There were a few months longer of responsible people trying to deal with it. Then there was about 18 months of insanity until the mRNA vaccines started making things Not Horrible again. As someone who worked (and still does work) at an Amazon warehouse it was just 2-2.5 years of insanity and madness, of people losing their minds. I just work with a lot of conservative assholes so it's a lot easier to say "Lockdown" than "Covid" because a) they're less likely to bitch about "Covid is a hoax, it's 5G internet that made people sick!" b) we all remember the crazy times working here and c) lol, we were never sent home, we had to work overtime during the crazy times.
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Mar 21, 2023 22:26
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ninjahedgehog posted:Also even the weak lockdowns meant that many people couldn't see their friends or family in person for basically a year, which for most non-goons is a pretty big deal. I mean maybe but I wonder how many people didn't literally see their friends and family for a year because I doubt it was many. Like most people cared about the pandemic for 2-3 weeks tops then went back to coughing all over their friends and family while their grandparents died on ventilators.
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Mar 21, 2023 22:34
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I’m still confused as to what the gently caress “lockdown” means in the US. Nothing happened and if it drove you crazy that you couldn’t go to a restaurant or theatre, you were already fuckin crazy. There was no lockdown. The media barrage and ridiculous polarization of every little thing was a big part of it. As you said, it's not like anybody was boarded up in their homes, but a real siege mentality developed and was cultivated by the media, and people had a lot more time to themselves and less time around others that they spent radicalizing and generally becoming disconnected from the already threadbare fabric of of the notion that anybody has any connection or obligation to anybody else in the whole world. A lot of people whose entire life was the office that suddenly closed up and stayed that way for years if you work a boring office job. People already in the habit of just deciding anything that inconveniences them is fake news or a conspiracy against them, alienation ramped up to 11.
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Mar 21, 2023 22:36
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Alkydere posted:There was about a month or two of actual "Stay the gently caress home" before the powers that be realized that was an issue because of money flow. There were a few months longer of responsible people trying to deal with it. Then there was about 18 months of insanity until the mRNA vaccines started making things Not Horrible again. Yeah, we had about six months of actual work closures and remote work and maybe a year of "please wear a mask" after that. I think the emotional toll though was similar to what happened to a lot of people after Trump got elected. In 2016 Americans had to take a good long look at the country and realize, wait, we were the country that actually elected that, we chose that, we're getting the government we actively knowingly picked, we're the baddies. Then four years later those chickens come home to roost and half the country is begging people to take basic safety precautions for the sake of your fellow human beings and the other half is busily shouting MAH FREEDUMS because someone asked them to not actively cough on everybody, and we ended up with this massive death disparity where hundreds of thousands of grandpas and grandmas choked to death in their own spittle while steadfastly refusing the vaccine and refusing to admit COVID was even real. Same basic collective trauma; half the country furious because the other half told them they should be ashamed of themselves, and the second half panicking in constant terror at the realization that the first half of the country was so deluded and selfish they'd rather get us all killed than undergo the slightest possible personal inconvenience. Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Mar 21, 2023 |
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Mar 21, 2023 22:37
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Crows Turn Off posted:Um, The NewsTM said that Trump was getting arrested and then locked in a pillory in the middle of Times Square today, what happened to that?!?! Literally the only person that said that was Trump in an attempt to start a riot.
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Mar 21, 2023 22:39
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I mean the entire thing was years of time when the only moral thing to do was absolutely nothing. At least when your city is getting bombed you can stack up bricks or something. When you have a long, long, long time where you can go out but you can't go out but you can if you are masked and socially distanced but even you know that utter placating horseshit and if you were actually a good person you'd stay home and... There's a reason why there were so many utterly pointless things like "let's all clap for the medical staff at the same time!!" going around. Even well meaning people need to feel like they're doing *something* to placate their fears and if they can't find something then they'll lose their minds until they can invent a reason why they don't need to be scared anymore. For me it wasn't as bad because I was an "essential worker" and 95% of my time with my friends is online anyways because I'm a goon, but if you felt that you were locked in your house and going out was immoral, it can gently caress with your head. CuddleCryptid fucked around with this message at 22:46 on Mar 21, 2023 |
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Mar 21, 2023 22:44
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Charliegrs posted:I mean maybe but I wonder how many people didn't literally see their friends and family for a year because I doubt it was many. Like most people cared about the pandemic for 2-3 weeks tops then went back to coughing all over their friends and family while their grandparents died on ventilators. I feel like this is highly regional. My experience living in a Big Liberal City was that the majority took it seriously until the vaccines came out in the Spring of 2021. Of course there were tons of people who didn't care, but it seemed like the majority respected social distancing, wore masks indoors, and didn't go to large gatherings. Once the vaccines came out people definitely stopped giving a poo poo though.
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Mar 21, 2023 22:51
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Los Angeles did an almost real lockdown voluntarily for a couple of weeks and then masked for 2+ years. It's over now, but I was shocked how long LA kept to masking.
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Mar 21, 2023 23:03
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Still reading but wanted to share Edit: this would qualify under the crime fraud exception so would pierce attorney client privilege if true if I'm understanding the story correctly https://twitter.com/wsteaks/status/1638304291805962240?t=0pSZkOMSWdcA14V278w0ZA&s=19 The detailed legal jargon followed by the immediate smack of the trump spox made me actually lol  A bunch of special counsel stuff is happening right now it seems news wise. Frankly I can't keep track of the different cases so it's a little bit slow to process cr0y fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Mar 21, 2023 |
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Mar 21, 2023 23:26
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Seph posted:I feel like this is highly regional. My experience living in a Big Liberal City was that the majority took it seriously until the vaccines came out in the Spring of 2021. Of course there were tons of people who didn't care, but it seemed like the majority respected social distancing, wore masks indoors, and didn't go to large gatherings. Once the vaccines came out people definitely stopped giving a poo poo though. Oh yeah, definitely regional and job dependent. I live in central Texas along the IH-35 corridor between Austin and San Antonio. One of the more liberal sections of a conservative state so I had plenty of assholes but for the most part people either masked up or just...didn't make asses of themselves when not masking up (for the most part). As said, working at Amazon (which had its headquarters in Seattle hit early on in the pandemic) it also helped that they could go "Wear a mask or you're fired" during a point in time where a lot of people were worried about finding stable employment. Corporate also sent so, so, so many stupid (and some not as stupid) ideas down the pipeline during that time. Lots of "throw poo poo at the wall and lets see if it sticks" work to keep us from maybe not getting sick.
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Mar 21, 2023 23:26
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Charliegrs posted:I mean maybe but I wonder how many people didn't literally see their friends and family for a year because I doubt it was many. Like most people cared about the pandemic for 2-3 weeks tops then went back to coughing all over their friends and family while their grandparents died on ventilators. Is this actually what happened or what you thought happened? Like, I remember locking down for a year only seeing my family occasionally and after we all knew we were secure in our pod of not seeing anyone.
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Mar 21, 2023 23:44
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Mooseontheloose posted:Is this actually what happened or what you thought happened? That’s a you thing not what happened, double so for those of us employed in the industry of serving people with masks under their chins There is no crazy outcry of people forced by stormtroopers to lock down and that’s why xxxxxx
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Mar 21, 2023 23:47
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:That’s a you thing not what happened, double so for those of us employed in the industry of serving people with masks under their chins Fuckin' preach!
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Mar 21, 2023 23:48
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cr0y posted:Still reading but wanted to share For once, I’d love a newspaper reporter to write that, “asked for response to the latest news, the Trump team attempted to misdirect, then blathered on some more about god-only-knows, anyway…”
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Mar 21, 2023 23:49
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I’m still confused as to what the gently caress “lockdown” means in the US. Nothing happened and if it drove you crazy that you couldn’t go to a restaurant or theatre, you were already fuckin crazy. There was no lockdown. It was the period between St Patrick's day and easter when bars, restaurants, gyms and churches were closed, then again in the fall when things got bad again A bunch of cities kept playgrounds and beaches off limits all summer too while lecturing everyone that it was important to keep the bars open. I personally got yelled at by lifeguards at the beach for wading with my kid in late june since the water was off limits The craziest part about COVID is that when controlling for lack of good health care, trump's response that first year was better than most of nato's, and he also got the vaccine developed by shoveling money at it sight unseen. And his supporters hated all that mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Mar 22, 2023 |
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Mar 21, 2023 23:55
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Crows Turn Off posted:Um, The NewsTM said that Trump was getting arrested and then locked in a pillory in the middle of Times Square today, what happened to that?!?! DeSantis rushed to defend the honor of the one person who can prevent his nomination for president, so everything was called off
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Mar 22, 2023 00:20
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Crows Turn Off posted:Um, The NewsTM said that Trump was getting arrested and then locked in a pillory in the middle of Times Square today, what happened to that?!?! To be fair Trump said it was today, and Trump doesn't know anything.
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Mar 22, 2023 00:23
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Charliegrs posted:Like most people cared about the pandemic for 2-3 weeks tops then went back to coughing all over their friends and family while their grandparents died on ventilators. This varied extremely widely by region and state. School closures / remote were 1-1.5 years here.
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Mar 22, 2023 00:23
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mastershakeman posted:It was the period between St Patrick's day and easter when bars, restaurants, gyms and churches were closed, then again in the fall when things got bad again You probably shouldn't toot Trump's horn too hard if you think Trump deserves a lot of credit. He did things like this with the [general] COVID funds: https://www.statnews.com/2021/03/02/trump-administration-quietly-spent-billions-in-hospital-funds-on-operation-warp-speed/ quote:The Trump administration quietly took around $10 billion from a fund meant to help hospitals and health care providers affected by Covid-19 and used the money to bankroll Operation Warp Speed contracts, four former Trump administration officials told STAT. Especially if you think another president wouldn't have shoveled as much money towards it if we look at overall COVID related funds*: https://www.crfb.org/papers/cost-trump-and-biden-covid-response-plans quote:In this paper, we find President Trump has proposed between $530 billion and $870 billion of additional spending and tax relief to address the current public health and economic crisis, with a central estimate of $650 billion. We find Vice President Biden has proposed between $2.0 trillion and $4.2 trillion of additional measures to address the crisis, with a central estimate of $3.1 trillion. If you want to give credit to someone shoveling money towards the COVID vaccine, I'd suggest Germany. Not in raw numbers, of course, but if you look at the percentage of the revenue of their federal budget: https://www.statista.com/chart/24808/top-sources-of-covid-19-vaccine-funding/  Germany's revenue in 2020 was ~1.67 trillion USD and US's in 2020 was ~3.42 trillion USD Kalit fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Mar 22, 2023 |
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Mar 22, 2023 00:23
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The mainstream ideology in America, and thus the rest of the Western world, for the last near half a century has been 'Problems don't exist, and anyone saying otherwise is a filthy commie'. Not surprising at this point there's so many problems boiling over you got people randomly shooting in the streets. (not even getting into how that's basically stochastic terrorism that can't be called that, because it's only a terrorism when a muslim or antifa does it) Of course, to Republicans those problems are solutions, because their solution to everything is to give more money to themselves and their corporate patrons and brutalise the vulnerable more. While Democrats seem institutionally bound to stand around gawping at all these problems that aren't supposed to exist, in between sending the cops to brutalise the people trying to bring attention to the problems, because they aren't supposed to do that. It's okay to cause the problems, it's not okay to complain about them or ask for solutions.
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Mar 22, 2023 01:41
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Most people who live in the area know to avoid Miami Beach around spring break times (also Memorial Day) unless you're trying to pick up college-age women and/or make bad decisions. The local residents hate it while the hotel/bar/club owners love it, which I'm sure is no huge revelation. There's one way onto the island (okay technically two, but everyone takes MacArthur unless you're going to the Fontainebleau) and all the beachside streets are one lane each way with parallel parking, which makes traffic an insane nightmare. I'm not precisely sure why it's gotten so much worse recently, but I'd certainly suspect it's a confluence of our idiot governor, idiot mayor, and people going loving nuts generally but extra nuts down here. Also a dash or two of racism, but that's always a factor.
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Mar 22, 2023 01:56
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This is interesting: https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1638344479101923329 https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1638345486082928642 https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1638348558448447490 My (cannot stress enough IANAL) read is the appeals panel recognizing that going ahead with piercing privilege will have dire consequences if it's later overturned... so this is a chance to make sure the Trump legal arguments are as  as every other one they've presented. If so, they'll swiftly remove the stay (and Trump will go to SCOTUS) while writing their ruling.
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Mar 22, 2023 02:23
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Please let him just miss the deadline lol E: wait this is the classified docs case? Does anyone have any theory on why all this stuff is picking up and moving rapidly at the same time.
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Mar 22, 2023 02:43
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Paracaidas posted:My (cannot stress enough IANAL) read is the appeals panel recognizing that going ahead with piercing privilege will have dire consequences if it's later overturned... so this is a chance to make sure the Trump legal arguments are as Midnight and 6am deadlines feels bonkers for the federal judiciary. What could make something move that fast?
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Mar 22, 2023 02:51
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coelomate posted:Midnight and 6am deadlines feels bonkers for the federal judiciary. What could make something move that fast? Yeaaaaaaa I really feel like something is gonna go down tomorrow.
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Mar 22, 2023 03:00
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Speaking as someone who writes for a living about how COVID laws in different places affected businesses, a fair number of states had laws in place that were at least moderately restrictive all the way into the second quarter of 2021. I think the thing about understanding what was actually going on is that your lockdown experience was insanely contextual. For one thing, it depended on whether you're in a blue state with laws or a red state with no law, and on whether you live in a rural or an urban area. If you're used to doing things that involved a crowd of people, you'd probably see a huge difference. If you relied on public transportation (we don't have that where I live), that probably made a huge difference. If you had kids in a school that closed down or needed childcare because their daycare was closed, that made a huge difference. If you had family in a nursing home, that made a loving enormous difference. The other thing is that the people who actually care — the ones who were going to obey the laws in the first place — were generally more careful than they had to be. A lot of people spent a long time not going to restaurants even after restaurants were allowed to open, and not going to the movies when they were allowed to do that, and not travelling when they were allowed to do that. They weren't locked down by government orders, but they were locked down by perceived necessity and the desire not to be a poo poo. I had at least one friend tell me that it was inconvenient having no glasses, but she had to cancel her optometrist appointment because the visit and the cab ride there and back was just too much risk to bring down on her housemates (not actually immunocompromised). It was a really tough time for people who cared, especially the ones who couldn't really do much about it.
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Mar 22, 2023 03:13
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Kalit posted:You probably shouldn't toot Trump's horn too hard if you think Trump deserves a lot of credit. Never forget that scumfuck taking supplies and distributing them to states based on whether they voted for him or not. People died for the pettiest possible reason but nothing will ever come of it.
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Mar 22, 2023 03:27
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Rand Brittain posted:). It was a really tough time for people who cared, especially the ones who couldn't really do much about it. Every American who cared had their face rubbed in how many people just * didn't*, and vice versa. The people who didn't care got mega mad about being forced into that realization, and the people who did care got immensely sad for the same reasons.
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Mar 22, 2023 03:29
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Kalit posted:You probably shouldn't toot Trump's horn too hard if you think Trump deserves a lot of credit. He did things like this with the [general] COVID funds:
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Mar 22, 2023 03:36
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For the classified documents case, does anyone know if obstruction of justice and making false statements are felonies?
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Mar 22, 2023 04:53
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cr0y posted:For the classified documents case, does anyone know if obstruction of justice and making false statements are felonies? They are both felonies at the federal level. It's a misdemeanor in a lot of states.
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Mar 22, 2023 04:56
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Covid was a huge deal for me. Lost my job, was out of work for a long period of time, couldn't see family or friends, no form of entertainment other than watching movies at home or walking in the woods, going to the grocery and seeing signs like "sorry no chicken" was a trip. I adopted a cat to ease the loneliness which continues to own
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Mar 22, 2023 05:17
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Pretty much the entire handling of covid was perfect to drive as many people as crazy as possible, and revealed a lot of serious problems with society- and worse, how easily many problems could be casually remedied if the authorities actually wanted to. And also how many people were completely unprepared, on personal, mental and political levels, to deal with an actual problem that couldn't be ignored or silenced by having the police take the annoying complainers away. Like, that there were problems at all that couldn't be ignored basically broke a lot of people, but also revealed a lot of true priorities. It should say a lot that Trump genuinely wanted to claim the vaccines as a personal achievement and constantly told his followers to take it, and they continue to completely ignore that, segmenting it away as noise with vague excuses about how They forced him to say it or whatever, while going to trample cops in his name. He doesn't actually have real control over those people, he's just the effective figurehead and rallying point for what they already want to do.
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Mar 22, 2023 05:42
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I mean the US never did a strict lockdown but covid was very disruptive to people's everyday lives, one of the main points in favor of e.g. Australia's covid response is that it wasn't generally more disruptive than ours.
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Mar 22, 2023 05:43
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Whoever predicted that Trump would use spring break against DeSantis was almost right. Not Trump directly, but some of his supporters are already on it.quote:Out-of-control Spring Break videos prompt Trump supporters to paint DeSantis’ Florida as lawless, ungovernable https://www.dailydot.com/debug/ron-desantis-spring-break-antifa/?amp
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Mar 22, 2023 05:57
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James Garfield posted:I mean the US never did a strict lockdown but covid was very disruptive to people's everyday lives, one of the main points in favor of e.g. Australia's covid response is that it wasn't generally more disruptive than ours. Indeed. I think these people are genuinely more mad at the idea of lockdown than any actual lockdown or effects from one they actually experienced.
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Mar 22, 2023 06:34
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Whoever predicted that Trump would use spring break against DeSantis was almost right. Not Trump directly, but some of his supporters are already on it. Sunny Florida, where your teenage daughter can't be gay or learn about her own body's menstrual cycles without a government agent thoroughly examining her genitals first, but where she can get blackout drunk and then die when a horde of other drunk teens push a car over on top of her because it's Spring Break and they want to do something nutty for TikTok.
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Mar 22, 2023 07:03
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Alkydere posted:There was about a month or two of actual "Stay the gently caress home" before the powers that be realized that was an issue because of money flow. There were a few months longer of responsible people trying to deal with it. Then there was about 18 months of insanity until the mRNA vaccines started making things Not Horrible again. So I live in Seattle and work for a major retail establishment. We shut down full operations abruptly in March of... 2020? I want to say? Time is meaningless. Anyway, it came after about two weeks of trying to implement self-police measures like social distancing and then mandatory masking. When it became clear that a part time employee can't really force people to behave responsibly the governor shut down all major retail. While we were 'closed' we still did limited curbside pickup and massive ship-from-store operations, but no one was allowed into the retail space. A fair number of my co-workers were pseudo-laid-off but got paid on the company's dime, which was a nice gesture. This continued until about April of the same year, maybe a little later, again, time is a flat circle, and then we opened with all kinds of strict rules in place, such as mandatory masking, hourly cleaning rituals (that amounted to nothing since that's not how COVID spreads but whatever) and no seating in our food space. The harsher restrictions were in place for about another 3-6 months, finally settling on mandatory masking, which continued until most people were vaccinated. We do not sell any products required for life but at no point did we actually cease selling things. "Shut down" meant "call us from the sidewalk". There was maybe a week where I drove around with a letter from my employer in the car because I was nervous the police might question why I was out of the house and then quickly realized no one gave a poo poo.
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Mar 22, 2023 08:39
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pencilhands posted:Covid was a huge deal for me. Lost my job, was out of work for a long period of time, couldn't see family or friends, no form of entertainment other than watching movies at home or walking in the woods, going to the grocery and seeing signs like "sorry no chicken" was a trip. I adopted a cat to ease the loneliness which continues to own For me it was pretty easy in 2020 at least. I managed not to lose my job thanks to PPP loans even if I took a temporary pay cut, but I was within my means. And I worked from home, socialized largely by internet, got out mostly in bike rides, and most of my eating out was fast food or takeout even pre-pandemic. I wasn't personally touched that badly until people close to me died, preventably, in the winter surge. But the stress on everyone was still incredibly visible, and so many people were caught up in their own perspective that they didn't think about anything else. Locking down hard to reduce deaths especially before vaccines or known countermeasures was objectively correct, and for nerdy shutins like me it was easy. But for other people it was really hard for practical or psychological reasons. And a lot of said nerdy shutins were really hostile, not just to actual antimaskers or denialists, but to literally any claim that was bad for people's mental health, hard on their children (my god do some people without kids act like they're lower maintenance than cats), making logistics of everyday life difficult, or whatever. Even people with their hearts in the right place, working to save lives, ended up contributing to shared misery. One thing that really floored me about 2020 was learning that suicide rates went down.
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Mar 22, 2023 09:11
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, we had about six months of actual work closures and remote work and maybe a year of "please wear a mask" after that. If you look at the way most Americans talk about their friends and family who engage in voting for Trump and supporting covid-denial, they still have not come to terms with this, and in fact are also engaged in active denialism of their own. "My *insert person* is still a good person!" "They love me so that makes them a positive influence!" "Is there really such a thing as "evil", you guys?" I guess that is in itself a sign of collective trauma, in that" sticking with an abuser" sort of way.
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Mar 22, 2023 10:14
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