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Well at least now we know why Tiger's here, did someone tally up the motives for people being here? I think of the routes we saw only horse had no clear connection as of yet?
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Mar 23, 2023 23:40
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Yay Tiger! Another ending as happy as Pig's! Many routes have ended with each contributor admitting to exaggerating during the trial. They excuse it by claiming that Morris was "clearly guilty" of killing Bowen. But as we go through each route, that mountain of evidence is crumbling. It's almost like he got railroaded into a guilty verdict by a corrupted system.
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Mar 23, 2023 23:51
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Regallion posted:Well at least now we know why Tiger's here, did someone tally up the motives for people being here? I think of the routes we saw only horse had no clear connection as of yet? Technically from the first updates we know everyone but Dragon has a connection to the trial of Aaron Morris. As for the actual reasons: -Mouse: ???, apparently replaced the judge for the case. If ??? is Brian it seems he wants her to truly solve the case -Ox: ???, but 100 bucks he's corrupt and helped fix the trial. -Tiger: As we just saw, lied in her testimony. Also whatever her diorama meant. -Bunny: Cop who was complicit in the corruption, probably helped fix the trial. -Dragon: ??? but apparently met Amadeus at Dog's bar, and according to Rooster she killed his parents and might be related to the ring. -Snake: Brian's teacher, exaggerated his testimony a bit. -Horse: According to Rooster (and going by his murder persona) he was Amadeus' henchman and probably killer for hire? -Sheep: Threw Morris under the bus to clear suspicion off her. -Monkey: No relation to the trial but supported Brian's paranoia. -Rooster: His parents were blackmailed by Amadeus and wanted revenge. -Dog: Ex-cop who knew about the police corruption. -Pig: Painted Aaron in the worst light on her articles.
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Mar 24, 2023 00:04
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I think it's pretty interesting how Red states "Dragon will be assigned a role that forces her to act." at the end there. If we had Dragon guard the weapons cache it may have ended up becoming Dragon's route instead of Tiger's, but who knows. We'll find out soon enough. Anyway, back to the thought - with just Dragon's and Ox's left, Tiger may actually end up being the only one that has not been forced to act (unless she actually became one of the traitors in the prior routes, but I don't think she ever did - please free to correct me on this). Either way, it's nice to see that the group got together and helped Tiger at the end. 
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Mar 24, 2023 00:13
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Sketchie posted:I think it's pretty interesting how Red states "Dragon will be assigned a role that forces her to act." at the end there. If we had Dragon guard the weapons cache it may have ended up becoming Dragon's route instead of Tiger's, but who knows. We'll find out soon enough. She did, her personality is Selfless. But like Monkey she confessed and willingly sacrificed herself for the group.
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Mar 24, 2023 00:16
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Wow, this is...an excessively sensible route. Aside from the fact that tiger is way too good at covering up a murder, this felt really down to earth. I also love a route where people actually just talk out their problems; I think I'd be really frustrated if Tiger kept killing and nobody would even bother to check the tablets of the 2 dead people. Can't wait to see the myriad ways you can gently caress it up!
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Mar 24, 2023 00:27
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:Guys, I'm starting to think Ox miiiight be a corrupt prosecutor. Just maybe. Perhaps, and we'll likely learn more in his route, but that's not how I view what he's saying here. He's emotionally intelligent enough to know that Tiger needs some support, and also is pragmatic enough to understand that while she did technically kill two people, they were not only dead folks walking, but were also actively engaged in trying to kill everyone else. Tiger is certainly no hero, but her actions very likely saved a number of lives. And he's right, this isn't a cut and dry case where she just snapped and randomly killed people. Dragon attacked her first, and Snake deliberately goaded her for unfathomable reasons that I'm sure made sense to him at the time. Also, is it just me or is it incredibly funny that they didn't check Snake's tablet until after they talked about what to do with Tiger? You'd think that would be the first priority for Ox or Bunny to pick up the tablet before heading back to the cafeteria.
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Mar 24, 2023 00:46
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For grins, I'm going to summarize the "canon" ending of each of the routes we know so far, as well as the dialogue from, presumably, Red, about the route. I'm not including all the dialogue, just the stuff about their personal thoughts on what happened. Prologue: R: Do you believe in destiny? G: Huh? Where did that come from? R: Just humor me. Do you believe in destiny? G: Uh, I guess that depends on what you mean. R: Perhaps I should ask in a less obtuse way. Do you believe that your future is fated, bound to happen no matter what? G: Of course not! The only one in charge of my life is me and me alone! R: Hm. Well, I for one disagree. The belief that we have any control over what will happen is simply the arrogance of humans. R: I suppose you would call me a 'predeterminist.' G: I'm not familiar with the term. R: Basically, it's the belief that since everything in the past already exists, and everything in the world moves on a cause-and-effect basis, everything in the future has to happen. The world's deck is shuffled, as it were, and all that's left is to deal out the cards, one by one. R: Any semblance of 'free will' that we have, well, it's more of a coping mechanism than anything else. Your genes and history were decided without your input, and like it or not, those two factors really make the decisions. G: drat. That's a bleak way of looking at things. R: I actually think of it as a good thing. Whether or not I'm 'in control' of myself doesn't really matter to me. I'd easily trade that away for the benefits 'predetermination' provides. G: Benefits? R: Another question: have you ever heard of Laplace's Demon? Actually, seeing as you hadn't even heard of 'predestination', I suppose the answer is rather obvious. R: Laplace's Demon is a hypothetical created by Pierre-Simon Laplace in 1814. This Demon of his is quite the clever creature: it knows the precise location and moment of every single atom in the whole wide universe. As if that wasn't enough, this demon's so clever that based on the information it has, it can predict where those atoms were and where they'll go. R: If this Demon really existed, it could accurately recount every single historic event, regardless of location or time period. And, if it existed, it could predict every single thing that was yet to come with 100% accuracy. G: I'm not seeing those benefits you were talking about. R: Well, obviously this example is extreme. But in a more controlled setting, geniuses can function much like Laplace's Demon. Through careful analysis of the past, of cause and effect, probable futures can be gleaned. R: Think... Think... Humans are no more than fleshy wind-up toys. R: Think... Think... Peer into the coding, the innermost mechanics, the clockwork within their minds. R: Think... Think... Become a demon. Play with toys. Control the future. Two - Mouse's Route Alive: Mouse, Maybe Rooster Dead: Dragon, Monkey, Ox, Bunny, Horse, Pig, Tiger, Sheep, Dog, Snake, Maybe Rooster R: We're not looking for a total slaughterhouse like this the less victims the better. There should be a better way. Four - Tiger's Route Alive: Mouse, Ox, Tiger, Bunny, Sheep, Horse, Rooster, Monkey, Dog, Pig Dead: Dragon, Snake R: In that scenario, likely the only victims will be Dragon and Snake. An almost flawless victory. Theoretically ideal. However, this scenario is highly unstable. Let's find a more solid path to walk. Five - Bunny's Route Alive: Mouse, Dragon, Monkey Dead: Ox, Bunny, Horse, Rooster, Pig, Tiger, Sheep, Dog, Snake R: However, any race where the Prayer Statue is activated is a race which will end incredibly bloodily. That's not the story we're aiming for. Seven - Snake's Route Alive: Mouse, Ox, Bunny, Horse, Rooster, Monkey, Pig Dead: Tiger, Dragon, Sheep, Dog, Snake R: There are certainly far worse outcomes, but this path is a bit too unpredictable and deadly. Surely Mouse can make better decisions than this, right? Eight - Horse's Route Alive: Mouse, Sheep, Rooster, Monkey, Pig, Ox Dead: Horse, Tiger, Dragon, Snake, Bunny, Dog R: Better paths definitely exist. Nine - Sheep's Route Alive: Mouse, Ox, Bunny, Snake, Monkey, Rooster Dead: Tiger, Dragon, Dog, Horse, Pig, Sheep R: From the start, this line of action may be too unreliable. Ten - Monkey's Route Alive: Mouse, Dog Dead: Ox, Tiger, Bunny, Dragon, Snake, Horse, Sheep, Rooster, Pig Missing?: Monkey (note that her collar activated in Pig's route, as there was blood on the neck of the body, so how far could she have gone?) R: More to the point, there are too many key sacrifices with this line of play. Not to mention... it's all a bit much, no? On the whole, there's not much potential with this traitor pairing. Jack - Rooster's route Alive: Mouse, Dog, Snake, Tiger, Sheep Dead: Dragon, Rooster, Ox, Horse, Bunny, Monkey (executed offscreen by collar), Pig (Desperate, executed offscreen by collar) R: Revenge is messy. The true path should be clean. Queen - Dog's route Alive: Mouse, Sheep, Monkey, Rooster, Pig Dead: Dog, Bunny, Dragon, Ox, Horse, Tiger, Snake R: This isn't a particularly attractive route to choose. King - Pig's route Alive: Mouse, Sheep, Rooster, Dog, Bunny, Dragon, Ox, Horse, Tiger, Snake Dead: Pig, Monkey (executed by Rooster and Bunny) R: In all likelihood, this plot will be thwarted, and a majority of the cast will be spared. This scenario makes fulfilling the objective particularly challenging. And cleaning up after the fact will be... difficult. No, this may be a good enough ending for Mouse, but it won't do for me. Of note, Tiger's route is the most palatable to Red thus far. Pig's route is said to be good for Mouse, but is not acceptable to Red. We still have two more routes to go, so we'll have to see how the commentary lines up after those, but it is interesting to see.
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Mar 24, 2023 01:42
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:Technically from the first updates we know everyone but Dragon has a connection to the trial of Aaron Morris. Don't forget that Mouse's dad was the defense attorney in Brian's father's case too. That might be why she was the replacement picked.
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Mar 24, 2023 02:42
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Geez Ox, remember how at the start of the investigation you had confiscated the sniper rifle? Why didn't you even think to use it when Tiger started braining Snake? 
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Mar 24, 2023 07:46
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Ox's line doesn't suggest he's corrupt, but he is a very efficient attorney. He's correct in that his (and theoretically Mouse's) job is to get the best outcome they can for their client, so I'm really inclined more to side with him than Mouse in this particular argument--whoever represents Tiger should absolutely pursue every legal angle they can to get a desirable outcome, that's what lawyers are for. If Mouse thinks otherwise, then she's going to have a lot of problems, especially if she's going to become a public defender. On more plot relevant notes, we're seeing the pattern here now: one exaggerated testimony may not change the outcome, but many can change perception from a case with room for doubt to a "slam dunk", especially with efforts to sway public opinion that way. Even those present that know their own testimony is exaggerated don't feel guilty because they believe, based on the other testimonies, that he was clearly guilty, so it worked beautifully.
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Mar 24, 2023 14:45
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ZCKaiser posted:On more plot relevant notes, we're seeing the pattern here now: one exaggerated testimony may not change the outcome, but many can change perception from a case with room for doubt to a "slam dunk", especially with efforts to sway public opinion that way. Even those present that know their own testimony is exaggerated don't feel guilty because they believe, based on the other testimonies, that he was clearly guilty, so it worked beautifully. Maybe the universe ??? wants is the one where everyone confesses and realizes "wait, poo poo, everyone did the same". Also my reaction to Ox was mostly on how he dismissed principled defense attorneys as "poo poo" and, while it's true it could be just pragmatism, he does sound like he takes cases based on how likely he is to win, and if you add up Rooster's accusations... And let's not forget, everybody but Mouse (and arguably Monkey) has some poo poo in this plate, why would Ox be different?
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Mar 24, 2023 16:07
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GiantRockFromSpace posted:Maybe the universe ??? wants is the one where everyone confesses and realizes "wait, poo poo, everyone did the same". Oh, I'm not saying he's not, just that "I will use the arguments that give my client the best chance" doesn't make him corrupt. If hypothetically Tiger's case were to go trial, she would certainly not take the stand, and Ox would do well to make the argument that the only people she killed were people who A) intentionally started poo poo with her in a deadly situation and B) were given a role that incentivized them to hurt or kill Tiger. Whether they actually intended to would be irrelevant and unprovable. He likely wouldn't SAY "it was almost certainly a good thing Tiger killed them", but he'd very much imply it. The big question of "is Ox corrupt" basically boils down to if he actively knew any of the testimonies were exaggerated and/or played a role in the exaggerations and fabrications. His job either way was to try and prove Morris's guilt, and him putting his all into it doesn't make him automatically part of the conspiracy. (That said, it seems increasingly unlikely he wasn't at least partially aware of things.)
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Mar 24, 2023 19:57
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Unrelated but while going back and rereading old updates, this was an early one re: Brian:Update 5 posted:
The fact that Rooster interrupted now just seems more suspicious than ever. You don't have interruptions like that in most RPGs without it being meaningful in some way.
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Mar 24, 2023 22:31
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He's been accused of succumbing to public pressure, especially considering there was an el-
Oh who cares about any of that? The kid's a complete nutcase, through and through, a dastard and a dullard. Try to psychoanalyze the comings and goings of the psycho with a headcase and you'll end up as crazy as them.
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 content warning: police violence ...in a sense. (hi, Bunny) And with that, another route is behind us! We're running out of those around here, huh? Anyway, Tiger's is an interesting one, but also as I said in a previous update, it's one that's kinda complicated to LP, especially this late in the game- more on that in a moment. As far as inspiration for this route goes, Themis cites the manga QED, in regards to wanting to do a route where the main thrust is a single murder scenario and how, at the start, it looks like the obvious person did it, then more evidence comes out that throws that suspicion into question, then in the end the obvious person ends up still being the one that did it. Whether that was successful here? It's subjective, if I'm being honest, but the route itself is pretty solid nonetheless. The setup for this bonus update is going to be different from the others, because this route itself is different from the others. Hey, you know how there've been multiple routes where at the end I went 'yeah, Themis wanted to track something over the course of the route but realized it'd be a lot of work and was too big of a scope'? Well, this is the one route where that setup was able to be realized  Specifically, similar to the suspicion point system from Bunny's route, Tiger's route keeps a note of your actions over the course of the route and how you did determines what ending you get. However, unlike Bunny's route, it's not just one person who's tracking your actions, but two- Tiger, obviously, but the other person is actually Ox. You need to get enough points with both of them in order to get the ending we saw last update, and the other three possible outcomes are based on whether you fail to get enough points with either one or both of them.What makes this route a bit of a pain to LP in terms of text is the fact that two of the choices for Tiger's points are ones NOT ACTUALLY ON TIGER'S ROUTE, but rather, in the early stage.  Therefore, if you miss both of those points before you get onto Tiger's route, you basically have to hit everything else perfectly right in order to get enough points for her- and if I made any kind of deal about the pre-route actions this late in, it'd tip the hand as to what the route's deal is pretty early. Therefore, I just took control and ensured we got enough points for both. The actions for Tiger that earn you a point with her are, as follows: if you talk to her at the very beginning (before the rules are explained) and are chill with her, if you don't push it when talking with her and Dragon in the gym before you find the weapons (her weirdness about PE stems from her disability, so pushing things gets on her nerves), voting for her as a guard over Dragon, trusting her before the investigation, and forgiving her after the investigation. All very emotional, and all tied into building a rapport with her and showing that Mouse legitimately gives a poo poo about her. Ox, on the other hand, are all very technical and investigation tied, to an extent: the first one is by correctly solving the auditorium puzzle (thus showing Mouse knows her stuff), correctly noticing the fact that Dragon should have had no reason to visit Tiger (thus showing Mouse is capable of logic and deduction), and then correctly handling the deduction afterwards if you say you don't think Tiger was the culprit, you instantly block off access to three of Ox's five points, making it impossible to get the best ending on the route. (Also, Snake ends up being the one to explain how Tiger did things, but its basically the same thing Mouse says but shorter so it's not really worth showing.) Alternatively, after saying she's the culprit, you get an additional point for each part of your deduction you got right Dragon attacking Tiger, Tiger using the sniper rifle, and Tiger's testimony itself proving Tiger wrong, respectively. Now that you understand how this route works, it's time to show the outcomes when you fail to get enough points with both Tiger and Ox- starting with what happens if you fail to get either. [Fail to earn the trust of both Tiger and Ox.] The point where things start branching off is towards the end, when Ox, Bunny, and Mouse have run off into a nearby restroom to regroup, and that's where we'll pick up. [BGM: Constriction]   Look, I'll go out there. I've got experience as a policeman with talking to people with criminal tendencies in tense situations. I should be able to calm her down. Then I can handle it. No, let me. I've talked with Tiger a lot, and I know I can come to an understanding with her. No, we should let Bunny handle this. He's been trained for situations just like this. You, on the other hand, are completely untrained.Not enough points with Ox means he defers to Bunny here. But  Don't fight me on this, Mouse. Trust me, this is for the best. ...I don't like this. But fine. On one condition I get to be waiting right around the corner in case anything goes wrong. Sure, if you want. Great. Then let's hurry.[BGM: Bullfighter]  Bunny quickly made his way down the hallway back to the lobby, with me right behind him. Then, Bunny turned the corner and started approaching Tiger. I couldn't see their conversation, but I could hear it. Tiger, Tiger, hey, breathe. You. You don't want to hurt anyone, do you Tiger? What are you here for? I'm here to help you, Zahara. No you're not! Woah, okay, calm down. I'm perfectly calm! Easy. I just want to discuss things. I don't believe you!I couldn't bear it anymore.  I ran out from behind the corner and started shouting at Tiger. Tiger, please, just listen to us! We're just trying to come to an understanding! No you're not! Don't bullshit me!Not enough points with Tiger means she refuses to listen to Mouse. Without listening to another word, Tiger began charging at the two of us. I got out of the way, but Bunny was pinned by her. It was cowardly, but I just abandoned Bunny. He was a lost cause. I needed to warn Ox about what was coming. *blam!* Before I could run far down the hallway, however, I felt a shock to the back, then the front. Something had gone through me. A bullet? That was my last thought before death, confusion at what had killed me. After that, I bled out. Chaos was happening around me, but I couldn't focus on any of it. Too busy dying.  [Ending 4 of Clubs]  In this scenario, Tiger is in a highly unstable state. If Mouse hasn't proven herself worthy enough, Bunny will take charge of the negotations effort. Mouse might try to intervene, but if Tiger doesn't trust Mouse enough, that'll just make things worse. In the end, if Mouse can't gain trust from either Ox or Tiger, the school will devolve into a full-on battleground with many casualties.Next up is what happens if you earn enough points with Ox, but not enough with Tiger. [Fail to earn Tiger's trust.] Earning Ox's trust means the scene in the bathroom plays out like it did last update, where Ox decides to let Mouse be the one to try to talk Tiger down. Therefore, the branch point instead is when Mouse tries to convince Tiger to come quietly... [BGM: That Pesky Rodent]  I bet if you come peacefully, I can convince the group to forgive you. This can all be like it never even happened. You really want that? Yes. Trust me!
No, this isn't right. You wouldn't forgive me this fast. This is some sort of trick, isn't it?! Tiger, no, I swear it's not.Tiger started approaching me.  You think I'm an idiot? That you can just toy with me?It was at that moment I heard a scuffle from behind me. I turned to see that Bunny had emerged, holding out his pistol. ...Where'd he get a pistol?! *bang bang!* Before I could say anything, he fired two shots at Tiger. They hit her in the shoulder. Unfortunately, it seemed to more enrage Tiger than stop her. She rushed towards us like a bull, completely knocking us both over. Before I could stand back up, I saw her standing over me. She helped lift me up... by grabbing me by my head. That's where my memory stops. ...Because after that, she began slamming it into the brick wall behind me. Two impacts, and I was dead. ...She slammed me against it five times. I wish there was a silver lining to end this on, but... this just sucks.  [Ending 4 of Diamonds] In this scenario, Tiger is in a highly unstable state. If Mouse has proven herself worthy enough, she can probably convince the others to let her take charge. But if she hasn't won Tiger's trust, the negotiations will definitely go poorly. Poor negotiations will lead certainly to death, and likely to Mouse's.And lastly, what happens if you earn enough points with Tiger, but not enough with Ox. [Fail to earn Ox's trust.] Failing to earn Ox's trust means in the restroom, like above, he decides to let Bunny handle things, with Mouse trailing along behind. The branch point, therefore, is when Mouse decides to get involved in Bunny and Tiger's conversation... [BGM: Bullfighter]  Tiger, please, just listen to us! We're just trying to come to an understanding! You are? We are. What's there to understand? I'm a murderer. Maybe. But we can help with that. What? Think about it there's absolutely no one around here. We can come up with a story that puts no one at fault puts Brian at fault. So?[BGM: Silence]  So? So, it means that you can return to your life just like it was before all this. It can be great. ...Really? Of course! You just need to calm down, and work with us. Then everything's going to be all right.Tiger started to look down, conflicted. *bang bang!*  It was at that point Bunny instantly whipped out a pistol and fired two shots into Tiger's chest. NO!Before I knew what had happened, Tiger started falling to the ground. *bang bang!* Not content to leave it at that, Bunny then fired two more shots into her head before letting up. [BGM: Weak Pig]  Whew. That was close. I'm a terrible shot, so I needed to get a bit closer and make sure she wasn't on her guard before attacking. ...Or else things could've gotten pretty ugly. WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT?! Oh, you must be curious why I had a pistol on me. When we were doing our earlier investigations around the area, I decided to pocket a pistol. Just in case something like this ended up happening. No, dipshit, I mean why did you have to kill her like that?! She was calming down! Mouse, do you seriously believe that? She had just murdered two of us on nothing more than a mere whim. You really think she can just turn that off? No, even if she did come along peacefully, she would've been more of a liability than anything else. But that doesn't mean you had to kill her like that!! Uh, yeah I did. Do you think any of us would've stood a chance against her if she started a fight on her terms? Dragon attacked her and lost! Maybe Horse could hold his own, but that's about it. Besides, you're assuming she was really calming down... and not about to realize that I was full of poo poo, and just start murdering us 'til she could escape alone. Look, I know it wasn't pretty. But it had to be done.I didn't have anything left in me to say. I was just too angry and sad to speak. Instead, I walked into a nearby room and just collapsed. Later, the group would reconvene. As it happened, both the ambitious and hateful personality were now dead, so no need to worry about any traitors. We found the Minor Trinkets, and escaped as a group. But it was a hollow victory. Brian had properly turned us against each other, exposed our evils. He had gotten what he wanted.  [Ending 4 of Hearts] In this scenario, Tiger is in a highly unstable state. If Mouse hasn't proven herself worthy enough, Bunny will take charge of the negotiations effort. If Tiger trusts Mouse enough, Mouse can intervene and help things go smoother. However, if in charge, Bunny will absolutely kill Tiger. And that's not needed, is it?Next update, we start on a different path towards a different route.
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Mar 28, 2023 01:12
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Good to know you're still trash, Gerry. Also hm, guess that means that the guard vote doesn't lead to Dragon's route after all.
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Mar 28, 2023 01:39
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Wow, we're nearing the finish of this LP, huh? Now we're down to just Dragon and Ox. There's likely going to be a "true" route as well. Funny how time flies.
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Mar 28, 2023 03:12
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It's interesting how Mouse mentions details about something that happened after she died on the Four of Diamonds ending.quote:Two impacts, and I was dead. ...She slammed me against it five times. "My head hit the wall, and then I died" in and of itself wouldn't stand out too much to me in a first-person narrative like this, but I feel like knowing how many times someone smacked you around post-mortem points to either a simulation or time loop shenanigans (or something like that).
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Mar 28, 2023 04:31
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ApplesandOranges posted:Good to know you're still trash, Gerry. From that update: "Then with a vote of 9 to 3, we'll let Tiger be the guard." Mouse would have just made it 8 to 4.
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Mar 28, 2023 08:07
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ApplesandOranges posted:Good to know you're still trash, Gerry. While we know there is a better way and have a benefit of unlimited lives, his behavior is perfectly reasonable - tiger already proved herself capable of performing murder based solely on emotions (snake) and as such having her around is basically risking death for no real reason, that way he ensures that she won't just get angry and bash someone's head against the wall. He did use a nasty trick to do it, but well, justified under the circumstances.
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Mar 28, 2023 08:33
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Does anyone have a simple breakdown for the early choices? This game could use some kind of flow chart for the early decisions, and I don't think we ever got an explicit screen showing what options we had. (Maybe on-purpose) Check-Ins: Pig+Horse, Snake, Tiger+Bunny+Rooster, Ox+Dragon+Monkey, Dog+Sheep (These probably don't matter much) Round 1: Discussing Brian and their connection to the Aaron Morris case Round 2: Snake + Rooster (Darkroom: minor), Horse + Sheep (Training: Sheep's Clothing), Ox (Library: the file or if you help Ox, ???) Round 3: Dog + Bunny (Open-Aired Forum: Second Caw), Tiger + Dragon (Gym: weapons cache), Pig + Monkey (cafeteria: minor) Oh, writing this makes it super clear, huh? Sheep's Clothing + Second Caw = everyone survives. I guess we're doing that route near the end. Dog: Snake + Rooster > Dog + Bunny > Victorious/Defeated > (Round 4: Ox, search in groups) Snake: Snake + Rooster > Tiger + Dragon > Ambitious/Hateful > (Round 4: lock up the weapons) Rooster: Horse + Sheep > Pig + Monkey > Desperate/Content > (Round 4: Ox, let's split up) Sheep: Horse + Sheep > (Sheep Don't Trust) > Tiger + Dragon > Determined/Selfless Bunny: Snake + Rooster > Dog + Bunny > Victorious/Defeated > (Round 4: Mouse, search in groups but stay nearby) Pig: Horse + Sheep > Pig + Monkey > Desperate/Content > (Round 4: Monkey, let's search in pairs; Let Pig untie Monkey) Monkey: Horse + Sheep > Pig + Monkey > Desperate/Content > (Round 4: Monkey, let's search in pairs; Have Mouse untie Monkey) Horse: Horse + Sheep > (Sheep Should Trust) > Tiger + Dragon > Determined/Selfless Mouse: Ox > (read the file) > Pig + Monkey > Clever/Dumb Tiger: Snake + Rooster > Tiger + Dragon > Ambitious/Hateful > (Round 4: guard the weapons) Based on this, Round 2 and 3 determine traitor pairings. But since there are 9 combos, and only 6 traitor pairings, there are probably some repeats. We need to see these: - Snake + Rooster > Pig + Monkey [Rooster and Monkey are suss, so this is the "learn the truth" route] - Horse + Sheep > Dog + Bunny [We get 2 personality change trinkets from Sheep's Clothing followed by Second Caw. The everyone survives route] - Ox > Dog + Bunny (likely Ox's route) - Ox > Tiger + Dragon (likely dragon's route)
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Mar 28, 2023 09:09
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I just remembered that we found the Kalvar's Poison on one route that leads to ultimately nothing.
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Mar 28, 2023 10:39
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NeoRonTheNeuron posted:Does anyone have a simple breakdown for the early choices? This game could use some kind of flow chart for the early decisions, and I don't think we ever got an explicit screen showing what options we had. (Maybe on-purpose) Without giving specifics, I will confirm that there are multiple option combinations that can result in routes, I only am using combinations that let us see everything for the LP itself- for example, you can go with Ox or Snake/Rooster in Round Two and still be able to get onto Tiger's route with the right following combination of options in Round 3. There are some fan-made flowcharts that are...very messy (and I'm obviously not going to show them because the LP is still ongoing), but that's part of why I never had you guys vote for the actual choices in rounds 2/3, just because it'd be easy to keep hitting the same route
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Mar 28, 2023 13:21
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Should be noted that we haven't had the 'Sheep trusts/distrusts' choice influence other routes aside from the Horse/Sheep routes yet, despite that question being before Round 3 pair pickings. So if we're going by the logic that the Sheep's Clothing + Second Caw combination is important, then that would also very likely be an important choice; telling Sheep not to trust people might not lead to her using/holding onto Sheep's Clothing well for the good of the group, for instance. Especially since she's one of the two left that hasn't been a traitor pairing yet (and we saw from her route that uh, she doesn't make great decisions when she's forced to be one).
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Mar 28, 2023 14:13
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Oh well. My attempt at charting will have to remain incomplete for now. Already one of my predictions has been deemed inaccurate! I agree that telling Sheep to trust would help us avoid wasting Sheep's Clothing for the "everyone survives" route.
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Mar 29, 2023 06:34
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NeoRonTheNeuron posted:Oh well. My attempt at charting will have to remain incomplete for now. Already one of my predictions has been deemed inaccurate! At the end of each route, the narration explains what is required for that route to happen. For Dog's route for instance: "If the Second Caw is found in the first three rounds, Dog will be assigned a role that forces him to act. If a man of his talents and temperament finds the Taming Whip, he will definitely make good use of it." And for Bunny's route: "If the Second Caw is found in the first three rounds, Bunny will be assigned a role that forces him to act. If he finds the Prayer Statue, he will definitely use it." Should help your flow charting out.
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Mar 29, 2023 07:16
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That wording is also particular; for some other routes it states something like "if nothing is found in the first three rounds but trinkets and weapons, XX will be assigned a role that forces them to act." This might mean that finding the Second Caw would force the Dog/Bunny traitor combo. This is obviously starting to meta-game a bit, but I think that would imply that Ox > Tiger + Dragon would be the Ox/Sheep traitor combo. Whether that combination would only be Ox's route or also Dragon's route, I guess we'll see.
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Mar 29, 2023 10:46
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 It's time to get started on another route. In Round Two, Mouse will accept Ox's offer to explore the library together. The two set off on their own, and once there split up to cover more ground. Mouse notices that something is up with one of the computers, but before she can investigate further, Ox calls out to her. (I'm just going to note here that going to see what Ox wants is NOT route determinant, I'm just showing what you encounter if you go to see what he wants since we're getting close to the end and I want to cover all my bases  )[BGM: Stampede of Truth]  Hey Mouse, I think I've found something. Could you come look at this with me?I walked over to Ox. So, what is it? This book didn't follow the Dewey Decimal System. ...You noticed that? I was looking for something like that. Anyways, I opened it, and I found this.Ox held up a small, black disc. What's that? I'm not sure. When I first saw it, I thought it'd be an item. But there doesn't appear to be an input code on it, which the Jade Emperor mentioned items have. Well, that's a bummer. So, where exactly was this? The book actually had the center of its pages cut out, turning it into a makeshift hidey-hole. That's kind of neat. Kind of clichι. I've seen something like that in a number of cases at this point. Brian wasn't really original in his hiding spots, was he? That's really what you're going to nitpick in all of this? Anyways, there was also a weird message written in red inside the 'compartment'. It read I have stolen blood from my kin. Ew. Weird. Weird indeed. Any idea what that could mean?  I was telling you about it hoping you would. Hmm. Sorry, I can't really think of anything. Then it appears we're at an impasse. But this is definitely something, right? Perhaps. Or, perhaps it could simply be a red herring. Seems kind of elaborate for a red herring. No one's accused Brian of not being elaborate. Anyways, the round's running out of time. We should probably get back to the cafeteria, then. I guess we should. You input your actions for this round in this room, then come join us. I will.With that, Ox walked out of the room. Mouse runs, as usual, and then returns to the cafeteria. The results are posted everyone ran, of course and then everyone splits up once more. For Round Three, Mouse decides to go explore with Bunny and Dog, and the three end up in a forum-style classroom, where they solve a true/false puzzle and find a Major Trinket. With that, they split up to input their votes and return to the cafeteria, where the results show that once again, the group as a whole have all ran only for the group to witness the additional rules given after Round Three ends: VICTORIOUS can only win if they finish first with no more than two other people, and DEFEATED wants to finish last, which will result in only the two of them surviving. Like before, the Jade Emperor gives everyone 15 extra minutes to process this new information. Tiger tries to get the people with victorious and defeated to speak up, but nobody comes forward. Ox attempts to get the group to resume searching for trinkets, but several members express doubt at how safe that would be. Dragon proposes they explore in groups of three rather than pairs, to make it easier for the group to stay safer as a whole. She also proposes that Tiger, Horse, Bunny, and herself each be in one of the groups, as all four are good enough at fighting that they can prevent any altercation that might be attempted. No one voicing any complaints, Dragon then follows this up by proposing that the four fighters in turn pick a teammate her choice being Ox, who she is suspicious of. Horse chooses Sheep, Bunny chooses Dog, and Tiger chooses Snake. Monkey and Rooster each pick a pair to join, which pushes Mouse to decide fast which of the two pairs left she wants to search with... [BGM: Stampede of Truth]  I'll go with Ox and Dragon. It's good to be able to work with you. There are worse picks for a third. I guess that leaves me with Bunny and Dog? Oh no. I should've picked something sooner. You're not happy being with us? I'm offended. To speed things up since time is now more of the essence, I say we should only reconvene at the cafeteria once every two rounds. Sound good? Sure thing, no one gave a poo poo about that in the first place. I don't Ox, drop it, its not worth arguing. ...Fine. So is this fine with everybody? This situation works, right?[BGM: Silence]  For this route, Mouse isn't concerned about the group sticking close together. Yeah, let's get to searching! We can totally do this. Now that's the spirit! Let's kick Brian's rear end for thinking we can be hosed with! Yeah, yeah, whatever, just get to searching. We don't have time for this poo poo.And just like that, our four groups of three split up. [BGM: Rooster Style]  So, where do we want to look? Does it really matter? Not really, but we have to make some sort of decision. Well no poo poo, Sherlock, I'm just saying we don't need to waste time with a big decision about this, let's just start looking around. Fine. There were some classrooms on the first floor I haven't had a chance to search through. Let's start there. Aight, so that's where we'll go. Great teamwork, gang. Is that what that was? Didn't we just talk about not wasting time? Right, let's get started. And get started we did. We began walking around the first floor, searching classrooms as a group. When the three of us worked together, we were able to cover a lot more space than we otherwise would have been able to. Working with Dragon and Ox made scrounging around classrooms a cinch. However, there was one problem. We weren't actually finding any Minor Trinkets. It couldn't be helped the school was unnaturally large, so we were bound to run across a number of whiffs. Still, I couldn't help but be annoyed that we were seemingly wasting time. I had to tell myself that that wasn't the right way of thinking about it. I wasn't wasting time. I was eliminating possibilities. ...Dragon didn't seem to share my optimistic spirit.  Oh for the love of gently caress! We've been searching for a while, and yet we've found jack poo poo. Calm down, would you? I don't see what shouting about it is going to do for the problem. It's going to stop me from hitting things. ...Then shout away. Actually, better idea, let's take a momentary break from the search. What? Ox, you can't be giving up already! Where's your spirit? I'm not giving up on anything. I'm saying we should stop, split up, and enter our actions for the round. Yes, there's still a fair amount of time left, but it wouldn't hurt to get that out of the way sooner rather than later. At this rate, it is highly unlikely we will be able to use the Minor Trinkets, so I don't see the harm in just pressing run now. Fine by me. No reason not to just input the actions now, instead of waiting 'til the end. Yeah, good thinking Ox. I'll stay in this classroom, and you two can use the neighboring classrooms. Why do I have to move? Seriously? Does every decision have to be a thing with you? I'm just Oh, forget it. I'll move to the next classroom. Okay? Hey, don't misunderstand me. I'm fine moving. I just wasn't cool with you bossing me around like that. Who caaaaaaaaaaaaaares.[BGM: Silence]  Hey, didn't we talk about not wasting time on pointless conversations earlier? Which rooms we use for the half a minute it will take to operate our tablets seems to fall under the 'pointless conversation' umbrella. Whatever.Without another word, Dragon stormed out of the room, and with a sigh, Ox followed her. ...Okay, so there was room for improvement on the whole 'teamwork' front. We could work on that. Anyways, since those two were gone, I could use this opportunity to choose an action on the tablet. It wasn't something I had to think about much. I just pressed the RUN button, and that was that. Then, I waited for the two to return. It didn't take long at all for Dragon to return. However, Ox took a bit to come back. And when he did, he looked perturbed. [BGM: Bullfighter] 
Ox, what's wrong? I... I might die soon. What?! Yeah, I think most of us are kind of in that situation right now. It's tense for all of us. I obviously don't mean just because of the general death game. Look, when I went into the other room and turned on my tablet, a message popped up on it. A message? It said: 'You've been poisoned! Your veins are now infected with Kavka's Toxin. This deadly venom will kill you at the end of the next round. Your only chance for survival is to drink the antidote. What is the antidote, you may ask? Blood from the dead body of the one that poisoned you.'A cold shiver went over my body as Ox spoke. That can't be... are you serious?  Woah. loving metal. Metal?! That's your first reaction?! I just call it how I see it. I shudder to think of the machinations of your mind. Well, gently caress you too. Dragon! Ox has just been poisoned, this isn't the time for this. ...You know? You're right, I'm sorry. I already promised I wasn't going to have any pointless deaths on my watch, so I guess I gotta help figure out what's going on. Thank you. Anyways, what's the deal with that message? It's talking about 'venom', right? Do you think this has something to do with Snake? Didn't that prick refuse to tell us what his ability was? Maybe this is it! I doubt it. This is entirely different to all of the other abilities. An effect of this scale seems more to the tune of a Major Trinket, wouldn't you say? Yeah, that sounds right. The Jade Emperor said that each animal was represented in a Minor and a Major Trinket. This must be the work of Snake's Major Trinket. Additionally, it is a fair assumption that the person who used it is either the person with the 'victorious' personality, or the one with the 'defeated' personality. After all, they benefit from deaths. On the other hand, the fact that you two apparently didn't receive this notification means that the Trinket has limits. The culprit would have likely poisoned everyone if given the chance.[BGM: A Bite That Persists]  Perhaps the Trinket can only poison one person at a time, or maybe it's a one time use. But when could someone have even gotten their hands on a Major Trinket? I made us search in groups to stop something like this from happening. Someone could have found it before the end of the third round. Then they decided to keep it hidden for some unclear reason. Wow, Ox. Even though you're in a horrifying position, you're still remaining composed. We were on the verge of death the moment we got here. This merely speeds up the timetable. Hell of a way to view things. Don't think most'd see it the way you do. While from a distance it might not seem it, being a prosecutor is actually one of the most stress-inducing jobs there is. Every day, I'm involved in one way or another with numerous cases that will define other people's whole lives. One slip up and I let justice falter. One over-exertion and an innocent man might be put to death. One careless statement, and the people working for me will snatch my position. I don't take my work lightly. I've spent the last four years in a state of nonstop tension. At this point, I'm numb to it. Wow, that's... sad? Yeah, I think sad's the word for it. I would've preferred impressive, but whatever. Still, I envy you. Not many are in a position where they can hold their own death so lightly. Do not get me mistaken. In no way do I hold my life in low gravitas. I do not intend on passing without a fight. I will find who has poisoned me. And I will not show them mercy.  Oh, how dramatic! I'm loving your energy, Ox.The speakers in the room had suddenly kicked to life, and the Jade Emperor's voice played with its familiar distortion. Brian! Why are you chiming in now? Simply to mock me? Pretty much. I've got to say, I'm so glad you get to squirm. Don't get me wrong, Mouse, Dragon, and all of you deserve to be here. But you, Ox? You really need a kick in the teeth. I was looking forward to seeing how hamster fodder like you would hold up in this place. And now? It looks like your death will be caused by a tool of corruption, the one who carried out a malicious cover-up and killed my dad. How's that for irony? Irony? Anyways, I should leave you to your little mysteries. Figure out who poisoned you. Or don't, and die. ...I'm hoping for the latter. Ciao.And like that, he was gone. God, what a smarmy prick. That kid needs a kick in the groin. He needs a lot more than that. But... what was that about a tool of corruption? A coverup? He was just trying to get in your head. I don't think so. Why bluff about something like that? But no, he can't be right. Morris was guilty, no matter what angle you looked at it from. Evidence, testimony, motive, common sense, they all aligned perfectly. There's no way that could be faked, I didn't Ox, snap out of it! This is why he'd bluff about something like this, he knew it'd get in your head! But if there truly was some sort of cover-up involved... and if the person behind that cover-up poisoned me? This could be a clue! Eh, I'm with Mouse on this one. Don't get overly worked up about this. I'm not getting overly worked up! ... Okay, fine. I'm sorry you two, but for the sake of my life, I'm going to have to ask that I abandon the search for Minor Trinkets. The poison won't kick in until the end of the next round. That leaves me with plenty of time to investigate on my own. I trust that you'll understand. Of course, do what you need to. Try and figure out who did it! Yeah man, go for it. I doubt you're the type to be too dangerous when left to his own devices anyways, so there's no problem with you going on your own. I take offense to that. I could be in quite a lot of trouble on my own, if I chose to be. Oh, so you want us to tail you? No, that won't be necessary. That's what I figured. Well then, I shall be off.With that, Ox excused himself to go begin his quest for self-preservation.
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Mar 30, 2023 00:49
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Oh hey, hello Brian.
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Mar 30, 2023 00:56
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Yeah, it makes sense that Brian probably dislikes Ox the most, if Ox was the prosecutor in his dad's trial. Kavka though...That's familiar. I have an idea of where this is going and I don't know if I like it or not. We'll see how this goes.
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Mar 30, 2023 01:00
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Bunny and Dog get shafted. It seems like 3 or 4 routes are with their traitor pairing, with routes determined by major trinkets. (Saying there's something else might lead to Dragon's route)Jade Emperor posted:Don't get me wrong, Mouse, Dragon, and all of you deserve to be here. Even Mouse deserves to be here? Wow. Rooster's Route for Kavka's Toxin posted:Kavka's Toxin. Use this item once per round on any player not in front of you in the race. By doing so, they will be notified that they have been 'poisoned'. They will know that they will die at the end of the next round, unless they find the 'antidote'. The 'antidote' they need to drink will be randomly selected from a variety of pre-selected options. Hm... so the antidote is a trap. This is really bad for Ox.
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Mar 30, 2023 02:03
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NeoRonTheNeuron posted:Hm... so the antidote is a trap. This is really bad for Ox. 
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Mar 30, 2023 02:08
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This particular item has a namesakeWikipedia posted:An eccentric billionaire places before you a vial of toxin that, if you drink it, will make you painfully ill for a day, but will not threaten your life or have any lasting effects. The billionaire will pay you one million dollars tomorrow morning if, at midnight tonight, you intend to drink the toxin tomorrow afternoon. He emphasizes that you need not drink the toxin to receive the money; in fact, the money will already be in your bank account hours before the time for drinking it arrives, if you succeed. All you have to do is ... intend at midnight tonight to drink the stuff tomorrow afternoon. You are perfectly free to change your mind after receiving the money and not drink the toxin. Not really seeing a connection there as the original mostly seems focused around a supposed paradox wherein knowing you won't actually have to drink the poison makes you incapable of intending to drink the poison. I guess it's kind of an inversion where not knowing you shouldn't drink the "antidote" means you inherently want to drink it? FoolyCharged fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Mar 30, 2023 |
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Mar 30, 2023 02:24
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NeoRonTheNeuron posted:Bunny and Dog get shafted. It seems like 3 or 4 routes are with their traitor pairing, with routes determined by major trinkets. (Saying there's something else might lead to Dragon's route) That's not that unusual; the Monkey/Pig traitor pairings leads to three routes (Monkey, Pig, Rooster). We're not sure who found the Toxin this round; the obvious pick is Bunny/Dog, but Sheep found it in the one route that we did.
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Mar 30, 2023 03:06
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Unrelated, but with the whole 'Rooster is suspicious' in mind...Mix. posted:
If Rooster was the 'Jade Emperor' and he wanted to go after the blackmailing ring that killed his parents... Ox was certainly a target of his vendetta on his route...
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Mar 30, 2023 04:26
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ApplesandOranges posted:Unrelated, but with the whole 'Rooster is suspicious' in mind... Also, knowing the poison doesn't actually kill but trying to remove it will kill turns the quoted line from mysterious to an open call out of Ox.
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Mar 30, 2023 04:28
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ApplesandOranges posted:Unrelated, but with the whole 'Rooster is suspicious' in mind... In addition to the vendetta, the Jade Emperor was speaking similarly to the way Rooster speaks. Any ideas on I have stolen blood from my kin. book? I hope there's a bigger picture meaning behind it since it doesn't seem to determine route (similar to Snake and the chessboard).
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Mar 30, 2023 07:43
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FoolyCharged posted:Also, knowing the poison doesn't actually kill but trying to remove it will kill turns the quoted line from mysterious to an open call out of Ox. Could also be pointing out Bunny, the 'I'm totally the good cop!'. ...Also oh man the reason they thought it was Brian was because Monkey (hmm) pointed out Brian's butterfly tattoo on his hand and Rooster wears gloves. Okay this theory is starting to get legs, I love/hate it. ApplesandOranges fucked around with this message at 08:31 on Mar 30, 2023 |
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Mar 30, 2023 08:27
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Yeah, the Jade Emperor really did sound like Rooster there, didn't he? So, we know the venom is a trap, so the question is if we can figure that out and stop Ox (or, failing at that, stopping a future victim of it should Ox die). Speaking of Ox, we see so much that insists he's corrupt, and yet all his reactions suggest he genuinely wasn't in on it--he seems baffled at the idea the trial could have been rigged, because the evidence was so overwhelming. But we've seen from Sheep, Tiger, and Pig how easy it is to make uncertainties look certain. Could Ox really be the centerpiece of a conspiracy he has no idea exists? Hmm... "I have stolen blood from my kin" could be a poetic way of saying they've hurt their family in some way. Or indicate that the identity they're hiding behind is a family member, perhaps, though that interpretation is even more of a stretch.
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Mar 30, 2023 14:00
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Interestingly, the routes have given me the impression that Ox either could be directly corrupt, or honest but either blind or easily manipulated to do corrupt things. I feel like you could argue it either way.
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Mar 30, 2023 18:00
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