|
Gah gently caress everything.
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2023 07:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 10:13 |
|
|
If we see this game again it isn’t going to be this year. gently caress
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2023 16:28
|
|
|
 goddammit I just want to do fun dungeon hoodrat poo poo with friends.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2023 18:26
|
|
|
And here come the videos. This is just the first of many, I promise you. Every creator is gonna be on this for the views. This one comes from Penguinz0, better known as MoistCritikal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3cqMqUV4hg&t=1s BTW, that video is decent to watch if you want catch up on whats going on, and has been.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2023 20:24
|
|
|
gently caress capitalism and gently caress IP lawsShowTime posted:Also, did Agartha just make it to mainstream off this poo poo? no, it was only ever popular off dark and darker addicts which is a fraction of the dark n darker pop, it's otherwise imo fighting for the same players as MO2, chiv2, mordhau, etc except those games have vastly more refined combat systems (tho ExAg's is a lot more consistent than people give it credit for, there's just a lot of stupid poo poo to be aware of) it did manage to spike to almost 1000 users, but that was on wednesday for whatever reason; I assume it was due to some dark n darker streamers were playing it, maybe some will turn towards it a bit (likely not sobad again lol) also judging by the times the game pop spikes and the regions that are active, it looks like ExAg is more popular in europe/asia regions, compared to DaD which was popular everywhere but *especially* northam (based on their released player data for past playtests) jonahveil was the first dark and darker streamer and ironically he was playing ExAg when he heard about DaD, but I think he's just going back to MO2 instead I'd stream ExAg and narrate the mechanics and how poo poo works to hopefully get more people playing, but deep down I know I should spend my time doing literally anything else than playing this game ...buuuut time to go quest more in agartha
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2023 20:43
|
|
|
ShowTime posted:And here come the videos. This is just the first of many, I promise you. Every creator is gonna be on this for the views. This whole video seems like he's just guessing what's going on with no real facts. He said he doesn't know what the allegations are on what was stolen, but then focuses half the video talking about how they use unreal marketplace assets so they couldn't have stolen anything, despite there being no mention of stolen models. Then he said police found nothing in the raid. I'm pretty sure if they're looking for stolen code, analysis of the data would take a lot more then a week, and the results would not be released until the lawyers have closely looked over it. Don''t get me wrong, I'm sure Nexon is doing lovely things, but I'm not convinced that Iron Mace is completely innocent either. Hopefully they come to some sort of settlement and can move on with development.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2023 20:59
|
|
|
First Gundam Evolution now this...I can't catch a break.
|
|
#
?
Mar 25, 2023 21:34
|
|
|
Charlie is definitely missing a lot of facts and Nexon may have a legitimate case due to the nature of their role at Nexon/Project P3 and the scalping of other workers. If this isn't cancelled outright they will owe some serious royalties I think because they worked on basically the exact same game, ripped off the exact same formula/style/all the classes etc, used the same workers that were on P3 they scalped, and the one guy potentially had copied a hard drive of the old code/assets to reference, even if he didn't copy and paste it. They have even more of a case if they can prove the guy sabotaged the project/team just to splinter off and steal the concept with his team, which honestly, it kind of looks like. Not to mention all the vague "trade secret" laws Korea seems to have, leaving P3 to immediately use all of their information to make the same kind of game in itself may be a no-go.
Akumos fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Mar 26, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 02:08
|
|
|
Yeah, something that people keep mentioning is that (most of) the assets came from the UE marketplace, but nothing about what's actually being alleged has to do with those, it has to do with design documents, internal tools to make the game, and the original source code. To be blunt none of us have any loving clue if they actually illegitimately took those things or not.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 02:22
|
|
|
https://www.eurogamer.net/ncsoft-attempts-to-block-teras-launch https://www.eurogamer.net/tera-publisher-rejects-ncsoft-lawsuit This seems much worse and TERA still launched
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 03:56
|
|
|
Akumos posted:Charlie is definitely missing a lot of facts and Nexon may have a legitimate case due to the nature of their role at Nexon/Project P3 and the scalping of other workers. If this isn't cancelled outright they will owe some serious royalties I think because they worked on basically the exact same game, ripped off the exact same formula/style/all the classes etc, used the same workers that were on P3 they scalped, and the one guy potentially had copied a hard drive of the old code/assets to reference, even if he didn't copy and paste it. They have even more of a case if they can prove the guy sabotaged the project/team just to splinter off and steal the concept with his team, which honestly, it kind of looks like. Not to mention all the vague "trade secret" laws Korea seems to have, leaving P3 to immediately use all of their information to make the same kind of game in itself may be a no-go. I don’t give a poo poo bitch. I want to play the freaking wizard war. gently caress you!
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 06:17
|
|
|
Nexon is a bitch rear end company, so their claims should be thrown out and everyone allowed to steal from them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 06:20
|
|
|
I said come in! posted:Nexon is a bitch rear end company, so their claims should be thrown out and everyone allowed to steal from them. That’s right
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 06:27
|
|
|
Smythe posted:I don’t give a poo poo bitch. I want to play the freaking wizard war. gently caress you!
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 06:37
|
|
|
Akumos posted:Charlie is definitely missing a lot of facts and Nexon may have a legitimate case due to the nature of their role at Nexon/Project P3 and the scalping of other workers. If this isn't cancelled outright they will owe some serious royalties I think because they worked on basically the exact same game, ripped off the exact same formula/style/all the classes etc, used the same workers that were on P3 they scalped, and the one guy potentially had copied a hard drive of the old code/assets to reference, even if he didn't copy and paste it. They have even more of a case if they can prove the guy sabotaged the project/team just to splinter off and steal the concept with his team, which honestly, it kind of looks like. Not to mention all the vague "trade secret" laws Korea seems to have, leaving P3 to immediately use all of their information to make the same kind of game in itself may be a no-go. It's undeniable that they applied a lot of the game design and know-how from their previous game project in D&D, but really the question is whether they did it illegally or not. I haven't read anything about non-compete clauses in their contracts, so what they did probably isn't illegal? Then again I don't know how Korean courts handle these things. As far as I know, you have to do some REALLY egregious copying in order to get successfully sued in the western world.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 07:14
|
|
|
Smythe posted:I don’t give a poo poo bitch. I want to play the freaking wizard war. gently caress you!
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 07:15
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nSz16ngdsG0
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 09:53
|
|
|
Smythe posted:I don’t give a poo poo bitch. I want to play the freaking wizard war. gently caress you!  I said come in! posted:Nexon is a bitch rear end company, so their claims should be thrown out and everyone allowed to steal from them. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 10:13
|
|
|
Akumos posted:That's a shame, the game was good. Thankfully the game itself/formula is incredibly simple to remake, proven by the fact they made it in like a year with market assets. Someone else will just come in(probably many) and make the same or very similar games. There is already a mod on mordhau that is basically Dark & Darker but without the out of game stash/vendor aspect. Hopefully some actual AAA dev comes in and makes it and makes it a polished game that doesn't have such a gimmicky trade and inventory system. I get why people liked it but after one playtest I wanted to shoot myself trying to buy simple items. The fun for me was the PvP, not the market or inventory being super hardcore and limited. I would be totally fine with this game in a more casual format with the same formula.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 16:25
|
|
|
I said come in! posted:Nexon is a bitch rear end company, so their claims should be thrown out and everyone allowed to steal from them.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 17:09
|
|
|
I hope the devs of this game aren't dumb enough to steal code and poo poo that could be easily traced back to them. they have always been pretty adamant that all this is very spurious and there is no basis for concern. they could but full of poo poo so who knows. hopefully we have some answers soon.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 17:12
|
|
|
comedyblissoption posted:copycats will suck because theyll completely miss the point and mindlessly copy mordhau/chivalry like that dumb Agartha game lol that people still think chiv/mord combat will have mass appeal the dark and darker combat system was so good for easily accessible but hard to master melee combat and like 90% of that is due to making everything slower than most melee or shooter games, literally no one except the fighter could even sprint E: but agartha still gets my time because I like overcomplicated melee systems, I just vastly prefer dark and darker Tempora Mutantur fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Mar 26, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 17:39
|
|
|
well I guess ironmace are true posters cause they just posted a bunch of poo poo publicly about the case in their discord announcements, hopefully that somehow only helps them
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 17:57
|
|
|
What do they say?
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 19:08
|
|
|
Here's the contents of the handful of posts in their announcements channel today. Lol'd at some of the excellent burns in there. You can tell how annoyed they are at the interruption.Dark and Darker discord #announcements posted:Link to the DMCA takedown from Nexon
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 19:22
|
|
|
Dunno about y'all, but them airing out the laundry on discord is not a good look in my opinion. It kinda gives off a guilty "let me get it out before you do so they believe me" kinda vibe. Not saying they are or aren't, because I have the faintest clue about all of this. I just want to go back to smashing heads in with axes. 
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 19:34
|
|
|
That's a very good explanation they provided just enough to be satisfied with public information and reasonable on what could be withheld for proprietary reasons. It does an excellent job in currying public favor in the court of opinion, doesn't go that far in telling your former boss to go gently caress itself, but having tangible evidence in accessible links and providing detailed responses to counter Nexon's claims is way way better. This is just a very shrewd and decent way to try and keep your player base on your side while also starting a negative pr campaign against your former boss.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 20:31
|
|
|
New copium dropped  E: The ChatGpt part is pretty cringe imo DisgracelandUSA fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Mar 26, 2023 |
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 20:46
|
|
|
Game Dev here - I've been using Unreal 4/5 since before it was launched. Looking over the .CSV that listed the file names it very much looks to me like Nexon filed a DMCA because Ironmace uses the at least some of the same middleware/unreal store content that Nexon does. Assuming that list is accurate and actually what Nexon was taking action on this strikes me as completely frivolous and frankly pretty reckless or petty on Nexon's part.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 21:50
|
|
|
Makes sense if the game was just beginning to blow up and a bigger company sees them potentially doing really well while they aren't making that cash on something they canned that was similar.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 22:40
|
|
|
swordfish duelist posted:Dunno about y'all, but them airing out the laundry on discord is not a good look in my opinion. It kinda gives off a guilty "let me get it out before you do so they believe me" kinda vibe. Friend, I promise you, even a "medium-small" game studio (ie a multimillion dollar company with dozens of employees at a minimum), who has been raided by police and then had a DMCA claim filed on them, has run their public statement(s) past a lawyer or two first. IANAL to be clear, but my job involves a ton of legal analysis and working with lawyers in very tense public policy contexts, and IMO that statement is a perfect use of publicly available info and the kind of poo poo you'd put into your PR releases in response to a suit anyways, except theirs also has specific publicly available citations that make the plaintiff look dumb as poo poo in the court of public opinion. It's just "the plaintiff's claims are false and we look forward to proving so in court" except they also cited evidence of the first part to put the social heat on Nexon. Considering one of their downside scenarios is that they eventually win in court but lose the race to release the game while the sizzle is still hot, putting a little non-court-based pressure on Nexon is probably pretty smart. So unless Korean courts have really weird muzzle rules or something I'm not aware of, that statement is as close to perfect as I would expect in the circumstances.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 22:44
|
|
|
Franks Happy Place posted:Friend, I promise you, even a "medium-small" game studio (ie a multimillion dollar company with dozens of employees at a minimum), who has been raided by police and then had a DMCA claim filed on them, has run their public statement(s) past a lawyer or two first. That's good to hear. Like I said, I don't know jack or poo poo about court proceedings and poo poo regarding DMCA claims and what have you. I still think the chatgpt part was absolutely unnecessary lol
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 23:14
|
|
|
That ChatGPT response was unsettlingly accurate, though, to the point where I'd think they tailored the prompt. Literally every feature of the game was mentioned, including stuff that wouldn't be the first thing you think of with a PvP dungeon crawling game.
|
|
#
?
Mar 26, 2023 23:17
|
|
|
Quite a backlash against Nexon on their social channels, but they don't seem like the kind of company that would care.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2023 03:21
|
|
|
They probably saw it coming- and I'm guessing it's not like Nexon games are gonna lose any meaningful playerbase over this.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2023 04:04
|
|
|
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zx-yi57cdyQ&t=326s There's a shitload of hearty LOL's to be had in this video if you are an Ironmace supporter, but by far and away my favourite is the fact that apparently Nexon's law firm claimed, as one of the allegedly stolen, proprietary assets... WWise engine files. Licensed, third party content they don't own, and that the entire loving game industry uses. A Rudy Guliani tier dick-stepping. Again IANAL and extra super I am Not Korean, but... Nexon are hosed lol
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2023 04:16
|
|
|
They don't have to win to come ahead if they're acting out of spite for a game concept they rejected ending up successful. Atleast as long as they can prove reasonable evidence for believing this but I don't know what anti-slapp laws S. Korea has.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2023 04:19
|
|
|
ChaseSP posted:as they can prove reasonable evidence I'm curious, how would you rate their evidence? Do you think their claim of owning the proprietary rights to having files called "Torch" and "Lockpick", a class called Barbarian, and using the WWise engine, is good evidence of copyright infringement? And before you say "South Korean court", remember this is a DMCA request leveled at Steam, and Arnold & Porter are definitely not a South Korean law firm.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2023 04:26
|
|
|
Not gonna claim law expertise eithee, this looks like bullshit assuming Nexon doesn't have definitive evidence to support their accusations. Just makes me wonder what the gently caress they're doing then.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2023 05:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 31, 2024 10:13 |
|
|
It's almost always impossible for outsiders to make truly meaningful predictions about a case that's being litigated in any way, because both sides are incentivized to stay quiet about key parts. Also, any one of the following could apply: -One side is holding a nuclear Uno Reverse card up their sleeve and is hiding it; -Both sides are actually currently negotiating a deal, and this is just pressure being added to the pile; -One or both sides have delusional leadership/decision makers who are the ones paying the lawyers to do inadvisably stupid things on their behalf; -One or both sides have really, really bad lawyers. (These last two happen a lot more than you would think) When you add all those parts together, you're just trying to get an approximate gauge of who has the stronger case based on their complaint or whatever is actually public. Which, in this case, Nexon's actual filed complaint is at first blush so dumb and niche it seems to suggest Nexon is suffering from some amount of #3 or #4, but who knows, judges are extremely stupid when it comes to anything tech and you never know about Point #1, especially when they are personally suing one of the people involved. I think I'd rather be audited by a tax authority than go through discovery.
|
|
#
?
Mar 27, 2023 05:27
|
|