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McCarthy claimed to have identified 57 people. Heinz 57???? This is irrefutable proof that the ketchup people are Q. Sorry Bucky, you need to “ketchup” with the latest evidence.
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Mar 24, 2023 18:40
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John Heinz didn't die in that plane crash, he's still alive and disguised as John Kerry. It all adds up.
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Mar 24, 2023 18:43
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If you don't get it, it's because you haven't looked closely enough at my mspaint collage
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Mar 24, 2023 18:49
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to be fair to bucky since he's not allowed to respond itt, he didn't directly say in that quote that the capitalists directed mccarthy to be weird about communism. this could be another of those examples of argument by innuendo where it isn't directly stated, simply heavily implied and thus kept deniable in the face of direct criticism it is, however, extremely poor scholarship of american history to point out mccarthy as the inflection point for the red scare and not, say, the 1918 red scare or the following Red Summer, a period of racial riots motivated by nativist white supremacy which was very closely tied to fears of bolshevism and labor agitation. this is the kind of thing that happens when the majority of someone's research is googling to find conclusions that fit the narrative rather than reading books and articles to determine where the consensus of other people's conclusions may be - and it entirely undercuts the contextual argument about how the capitalist classes opposed the globalist UN by making americans scared of communists in the mid 1950s
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Mar 24, 2023 19:19
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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:to be fair to bucky since he's not allowed to respond itt, he didn't directly say in that quote that the capitalists directed mccarthy to be weird about communism. this could be another of those examples of argument by innuendo where it isn't directly stated, simply heavily implied and thus kept deniable in the face of direct criticism No, see, history is a bunch of big events that everyone has kind of heard about from cultural osmosis and then just a vast slurry of whatever in between where we can scribble in the word "JEWS?!?!??!". Anyone actually bothering to remember even middle school history class is cheating. (Possibly a Rothschild????)
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Mar 24, 2023 20:03
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FFT posted:"Expect an October surprise" is prophecy on par with "Winter is coming" Wikipedia posted:The term "October surprise" was coined by William Casey when he served as campaign manager of Ronald Reagan's 1980 presidential campaign.[2] However, there were October election-upending events that predated the coining of the term.[1][2] The earliest example given comes from 1840. So yeah this is zero proof that FBIanon was an insider at Wikileaks or close to Roger Stone or whatever. And there is still no proof other than "Well it's more probable than not that that's the truth!" If I bought that argument, I'd be an anti-vaxxer who thinks Damar Hamlin's heart attack was due to the covid vaccine.
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Mar 24, 2023 22:38
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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:bucky just posts the same red-string conspiracy brained nonsense, but against Q except in favor of Q.  The thing with Q is that it is full of lies. Hillary Clinton didn't get arrested, for example. So where the lies are here? quote:tries to substitute an actual conclusion with bludgeoning the reader into compliance by sheer weight of effort. instead of proving any conclusion the author simply stacks piles of screenshots near each other and hopes that you leap to the same conclusions they did. I did in fact make a very clear conclusion. Q was born when Cicada met MAGA3X. It took a large amount of effort, yes, and I showed all the working. I really was trying to tell the whole story, and it's entirely possible I overshot. If I zoomed out too far, fine, my bad. I've made (and offered) a shorter version (still 12,000 words lol), and am working on a shorter version still. quote:bucky positions mccarthy instead as a deliberate capitalist plot to build support for themselves by unleashing mccarthy on the population to purposefully stir up anti-communist sentiment for their own ends. this is conspiracy brained nonsense that simply substitutes "the capitalists" for Q or "the jews" or whatever bullshit You’ve got it the wrong way round. In describing how Q came to be, McCarthyism is part of the context. I wasn’t implying the capitalists deliberately pulled his string. On the contrary, I explicitly describe it as a personal crusade - they called him the worst, then he came out swinging. Then when the JBS came along, they picked up where he left off. I appreciate you taking the time to lay out some more historical context, but it doesn't undercut anything at all. Even if that was what I was saying, responding with “actually anti-communist sentiment started in 1908 instead of the 50’s” does nothing to dispute the fact that Q was born when Jack and Manny went to Defcon. I do also mention fears of bolshevism when referencing how all this began with Nesta Webster, and Labor Agitation is another key foundation of the whole thing. This is the kind of thing that happens when your intention in scanning a document is to look for anything you can grasp to dismiss it, rather than actually evaluating it sincerely. Twelve by Pies posted:The earliest example given [of October surprise] comes from 1840. So yeah this is zero proof that FBIanon was an insider at Wikileaks or close to Roger Stone or whatever. Bucky Fullminster posted:They didn't say "Something surprising might happen in October". They said "More leaks will come. The time is not yet right." Are you doing this deliberately? quote:And there is still no proof other than "Well it's more probable than not that that's the truth!" tell me you don't understand how science and statistics works without telling me you don't understand how science and statistics works. Also there are several things that arguably do constitute proof, and it's all in there. tigersklaw posted:"if you can’t find a single thing wrong with it, the entire thing is true” - a sane person hahahaha, what the hell is happening. "Ok sure it's all true, but it's actually not". A Gish Gallop is too many false things to respond to. All you have to do here is find one. For example, we can see a crucial mistake in the thesis offered by the Q watchers. Dale Beran went on QAA and told them that a guy called Arturo said something about FBIanon. But he didn't. He was talking about MegaAnon. But that error literally led them to dismiss the entire thing, which has now essentially defined the entire conversation from that point on, so everyone rejects it. It's genuinely hosed. This thing has done serious damage, and understanding how it happened is important. This thread is the single most suitable place in the world for that debate and/or discussion. Banning it is baffling. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) Bucky Fullminster fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Mar 26, 2023 |
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Mar 26, 2023 14:54
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Oh god, would you just go away, please?
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Mar 26, 2023 15:06
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Actually, I'm Q. Sorry you wasted your time on that screed, Bucky!
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Mar 26, 2023 15:15
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ashpanash posted:Oh god, would you just go away, please? That is a very weird thing to go out of your way to post in a thread which has seen no conversation for 3 months. It's not like you're forced to be here, if you're not interested in a discussion you can always go literally anywhere else in the entire world.
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Mar 26, 2023 15:18
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"If I sound like Charlie Day ranting about Pepe Silva, that's ok because there are Pepe Silvas everywhere" is not exactly a convincing argument IMOBucky Fullminster posted:A Gish Gallop is too many false things to respond to. All you have to do here is find one. No, a gish gallop is intentionally throwing up too many things to respond to - that can be things that are speculative, or misleading, or irrelevant, not just blatant falsehoods. Unpacking that kind of gobbledygook takes ten times the effort that it takes to come up with it in the first place, which is why nobody wants to respond to your "JUST DEBATE ME, BRO" pleas and spend a bunch of time exposing their brain to high-proof conspiracy energy waves when there's absolutely nothing to be gained by doing so
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Mar 26, 2023 18:13
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Bucky Fullminster posted:That is a very weird thing to go out of your way to post in a thread which has seen no conversation for 3 months. It's not like you're forced to be here, if you're not interested in a discussion you can always go literally anywhere else in the entire world. *makes sure monitor is on* People have said they do not like you or your posting, specifically. No posts are better than your posts.
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Mar 26, 2023 19:17
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Bucky Fullminster posted:Are you doing this deliberately? Why yes, I am deliberately pointing out that there is a history of surprising things happening in October in election years to try and sink a candidate's chances of winning, and that saying "more leaks will come in October" is not proof of anything because it's literally something any random person posting on the internet could have predicted and posted. I'm doing it deliberately to point out that using it to prove that FBIanon being some sort of high level conspiracy is nonsense. quote:tell me you don't understand how science and statistics works without telling me you don't understand how science and statistics works. Here's another statement that applies to statistics and science: Correlation does not equal causation. And you're doing a hell of a lot of claiming correlation is causation in your entire piece so lol at trying to claim I'm the one who's ignorant of them.
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Mar 26, 2023 19:20
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I do miss reading about Q-posts and stuff but unfortunately nobody seems willing to wade into the cesspools that are Parler and Gab, nor am I recommending anyone do so.
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Mar 26, 2023 19:27
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pseudanonymous posted:I do miss reading about Q-posts and stuff but unfortunately nobody seems willing to wade into the cesspools that are Parler and Gab, nor am I recommending anyone do so. Do those places still have it? Or has it died down there, too? SEems like the wind is really knocked out.
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Mar 26, 2023 19:28
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Bucky Fullminster posted:You’ve got it the wrong way round. In describing how Q came to be, McCarthyism is part of the context. I wasn’t implying the capitalists deliberately pulled his string. On the contrary, I explicitly describe it as a personal crusade - they called him the worst, then he came out swinging. Then when the JBS came along, they picked up where he left off. I appreciate you taking the time to lay out some more historical context, but it doesn't undercut anything at all. Even if that was what I was saying, responding with “actually anti-communist sentiment started in 1908 instead of the 50’s” does nothing to dispute the fact that Q was born when Jack and Manny went to Defcon. so mccarthyism has nothing to do with your argument really, you just wedged it in there as something people have heard of which makes your overall speculative argument seem more grounded in reality. basically faking a lit review here by putting concepts near each other and hoping they interact somehow. this is extremely weak scholarship my friend Bucky Fullminster posted:This is the kind of thing that happens when your intention in scanning a document is to look for anything you can grasp to dismiss it, rather than actually evaluating it sincerely. you demand people respond to your claims specifically, and when i did that you said that i couldn't interpret your argument correctly and that my criticism was invalid anyway, because the thing i criticized isn't actually part of your core argument make up your mind. do you want direct criticism or not? i think you only want praise for your argument, not any sort of criticism at all
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Mar 26, 2023 19:38
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The only reliable place I can find "Modern day" explicitly-QAnon-that-admits-it-is-such content is by going to my local fundamentalist Christian newspaper's website, clicking through a lovely-looking link on their sidebar, clicking on another lovely-looking link on their sidebar, and then I can listen to an hour-and-a-half long daily podcast that often veers into topics such as armies of human/chimp hybrids or the imminent return of Planet X to our solar system, all read by a woman with an affected radio voice that clearly doesn't actually believe it. The whole experience is awful and I do not recommend it. Although I suppose Grant Stinchfield did do a fawning "Now, these beliefs might seem a little out there, but up next we have Praying Medic on the line, and he's gonna tell us all about what this Q thing is all about!" profile earlier this month, but I'm not sure if that counts.
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Mar 27, 2023 00:41
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Qanon as such isn’t necessary any more because the fascists can be more or less out and open while hyping each other up to kill undesirables. Trump himself isn’t necessary any more either, for through him a thousand trumps have bloomed.
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Mar 27, 2023 00:45
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I AM GRANDO posted:Qanon as such isn’t necessary any more because the fascists can be more or less out and open while hyping each other up to kill undesirables. Trump himself isn’t necessary any more either, for through him a thousand trumps have bloomed. It's still very much alive, it's just that most of the most nutso influencers were deplatformed after 1/6. Like, the crazy lady I used to post who would talk about how trump was a time traveler and how she could see angels after she stared at the sun has completely disappeared. Crunch Buttsteak posted:The only reliable place I can find "Modern day" explicitly-QAnon-that-admits-it-is-such content... I mean, if you want it, https://greatawakening.win/ is still around. [edit] my favorite right now is that Jon Fetterman has been replaced by a doppelganger. It's making the rounds on Twitter but the Qanon folks can always up the ante by adding "clones" or "lizard DNA" or something extra nutty into the conspiracy. New Yorp New Yorp fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Mar 27, 2023 |
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Mar 27, 2023 01:11
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Crunch Buttsteak posted:The only reliable place I can find "Modern day" explicitly-QAnon-that-admits-it-is-such content is by going to my local fundamentalist Christian newspaper's website, clicking through a lovely-looking link on their sidebar, clicking on another lovely-looking link on their sidebar, and then I can listen to an hour-and-a-half long daily podcast that often veers into topics such as armies of human/chimp hybrids or the imminent return of Planet X to our solar system, all read by a woman with an affected radio voice that clearly doesn't actually believe it. The whole experience is awful and I do not recommend it. If you don't mind i would very much like to hear this
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Mar 28, 2023 04:29
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quote:SERVED!!!! Entire Fairport NY School Board & Superintendent Served For Disseminating CHILD PORN (rumble.com) THIS IS THE WAY. quote:– BerlinWallCrosser 70 points 1 day ago +71 / -1
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Mar 28, 2023 05:32
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Blotto_Otter posted:"If I sound like Charlie Day ranting about Pepe Silva, that's ok because there are Pepe Silvas everywhere" is not exactly a convincing argument IMO Sure. That's not the argument I'm making though. Please, everyone, stop responding to things I am not saying. There are plenty of words there and I chose them all quite carefully, you don’t need to make any more up. quote:a gish gallop is intentionally throwing up too many things to respond to - that can be things that are speculative, or misleading, or irrelevant, Cool, so which part is speculative, or misleading, or irrelevant. You still haven't actually said anything. Give us a tangible example of what you're referring to. If there are as many of these things as you say, it should be easy. Just throw a dart at it or something. If after a full week of everyone trying to take it apart, no one has been able to find a single thing that's actually wrong with it, maybe it isn't actually nonsense after all, and this is in fact what really happened. Why is that so implausible? Like why is this such a thing for you guys? Why are you so reluctant to admit this? What’s the obstacle here? It obviously had to be someone, this is who it was. Everyone was kind of right. It was a troll, it was a LARP, it was an ARG, it was a cult, it was propaganda, it was a grift, it was lucky. It was all of those things. I cut 14,000 words of background detail from the piece, and got it under 45 minutes. So it's not a novel any more. Can I share that one, or was the length not really the problem and that would be banned as well? Or would people then say "it needs more connective tissue". Vahakyla posted:Seems like the wind is really knocked out. Of the specific Q larp? Sure. Of the movement it energised? Absolutely not. Of the disinformation machine that led to its creation? Absolutely not. I AM GRANDO posted:Qanon as such isn’t necessary any more because the fascists can be more or less out and open while hyping each other up to kill undesirables. Trump himself isn’t necessary any more either, for through him a thousand trumps have bloomed. Exactly. It's a horrible situation, and this is simply how we got to that point. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Mar 29, 2023 08:43
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Bucky Fullminster when you inevitably post your blog again consider breaking the blog posts up. Instead of one one hundred minute chunk post ten ten minute chunks.
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Mar 29, 2023 08:54
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Relevant Tangent posted:Bucky Fullminster when you inevitably post your blog again consider breaking the blog posts up. Instead of one one hundred minute chunk post ten ten minute chunks. Thanks but surely that’s even more annoying? I hate having to Open new pages and go back and forth for the same number of words
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Mar 29, 2023 09:01
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the reason to break stuff up into chunks is it makes you write better you can't assume people will read a one hundred minute post, and most people are going to see the time commitment you're asking and quite reasonably say lol gently caress off if you can't name the conspirators in ten minutes without all the cruft (c'mon you really think leading with the Illuminati is helpful) then nobody is going to bother at least if you've broken it up into chunks it shows you put some thought into it and you could then link the one part out of ten that might be worth reading (a hypothetical you, you will get banned if you link your blog again afaict)
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Mar 29, 2023 09:08
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Relevant Tangent posted:it makes you write better The 100 minute thing kind of did that funnily enough. I actually hit the number a few weeks ago, and didn’t want to go over it, so any time I want to do to add something I had to go trim some fat from somewhere else, which I think made it significantly tighter. But yes, it’s still prohibitively long, which is why I just made another one which cut 14,000 words and got it under 45 minutes. I don’t think it’s possible to make it less but anyone is free to try. I did also try splitting it in two at least - pre and post 2016 - but felt it didn’t really work. It just needs to be a film or video series really.
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Mar 29, 2023 09:22
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Just think how many times you could be banned for posting a cool hip video essay instead of a crusty old blog.
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Mar 29, 2023 09:34
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Bucky Fullminster posted:The 100 minute thing kind of did that funnily enough. I actually hit the number a few weeks ago, and didn’t want to go over it, so any time I want to do to add something I had to go trim some fat from somewhere else, which I think made it significantly tighter. I got it down to zero minutes quite easily.
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Mar 29, 2023 14:43
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Bucky Fullminster posted:The 100 minute thing kind of did that funnily enough. What exactly were you trying to accomplish here? Are you trying to show who made the initial Qanon posts? Or are you trying to create a grand unified theory about the history of conspiracy theories from 1776 through 2020? Because the former could and should be done in an article that can be read in ten to fifteen minutes without opening on the founding of the goddamn Illuminati in 18th century Bavaria, and the latter sure as poo poo ain't happening in a goddamn Medium post (to be clear, I am absolutely not suggesting that you personally go and write a book about the history of conspiracy theories, it would not be good and I will not be reading that either)
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Mar 29, 2023 15:27
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Bucky Fullminster posted:It just needs to be a film or video series really. It really doesn't
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Mar 29, 2023 15:45
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Bucky Fullminster posted:If after a full week of everyone trying to take it apart, no one has been able to find a single thing that's actually wrong with it, maybe it isn't actually nonsense after all, and this is in fact what really happened. lol. He thinks everyone has been pouring over his screed trying to poke holes in it.
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Mar 29, 2023 15:52
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Hi Bucky, it's not that people think you are wrong or your writing is factually incorrect, it's that nobody wants to read a rambling 20k word blog post. I'm not banning you because I hate you and think your blog is wrong, but because it's obnoxious to keep promoting your own work and insisting that people read and debate you on it. If you can't make your point concisely in a few sentences and entice a reader to check out the whole thing, you probably don't have a very interesting thesis. I put a large chunk of your blog in the Leper's Colony, as a teaser for the full article. If you want, you can start a thread in PMF. But please stop posting about it in D&D.
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Mar 29, 2023 16:02
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bucky, the writing advice is valid and you should pursue it because writing is a good creative hobby also consider that your motivations here are going to continue to drive you to bash your head against a wall because you need to win. you need to have a victory and you need to see the validation of having your work accepted and approved of. that isn't going to happen on this forum because your argument is broadly gibberish and too many people can tell that it is gibberish. if your argument were just long that can be fixed, the problem is also that it is nonsense and you are heavily in denial about this because of your thought processes which make you blind to detecting gibberish. since you cannot detect gibberish you are strongly attracted to the writings of Q and the entire Qniverse - luckily your politics provide a second safety check so that you do not agree with any of these ideas, but you DO spend a tremendous amount of time picking the arguments apart when the more common reaction is simply to dismiss Q nonsense as absolute gibberish since you will not accept that your blog is gibberish, it simply makes more sense to you that dozens of people who have never met you or each other are flatly refusing to accept your work in a coordinated way... why? because they're scared of the truth? because they've been corrupted by some hostile force? what would cause so many people to have similar reactions to your work? what do those people have in common other than having been prompted to read your work? also, consider what you aim to achieve here. say everyone agrees 100% with everything you write. what changes about the world? what can anyone do to correct this damage or prevent it from happening again? or is the main thing that happens is that people generally praise you for your insight? are you so focused on getting people to agree with this because it will save the world somehow, or because it will make you feel very good about yourself? if it would make you feel good about yourself, then couldn't it also be true that you defend your work for the main reason of not feeling bad that you've spent so much time creating an unpopular work? what exactly is it that causes you to keep slamming your hand on this particular hot stove - are you fixing anything about society or are you attempting to address some harm done to yourself by people on this forum? Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 16:10 on Mar 29, 2023 |
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Mar 29, 2023 16:06
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im not trying to bait you or anything by posting this stuff in a thread you're threadbanned from. im pretty sure i know how you would respond anyway. just think about it, you know? i'm certainly not interested in any kind of work discussing the motivation of internet strangers from someone who seems to be so unaware of their own behaviors and motivations
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Mar 29, 2023 16:15
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Seems to me bucky doesn't have full control of the length because he doesn't control the breath of the conspiracy, nor what clues the conspirators have left us. Bucky has been diligently tracking every clue and weaving it into a coherent narrative. Editing for readability is a later step - and one he seems eager for help with. But ya gotta engage the work in good faith to offer helpful edits. The meat is there, this isn't made up cherry picked strings on a corkboard. It is complicated and often deliberately obscured, so the fact that it isn't yet written as a children's book or haiku should not be used to dismiss the reasoning, evidence, and conclusions offered. E: Bucky's work is also 100% hypertext, more similar to a wiki page than a manifesto. This makes it both more and less readable, contrasted with a traditional print article. Being already familiar with the evidence cited enables one to read it quickly; the more novel the information is to the careful reader, the more time must be taken following links and independently researching the referenced events and media before progressing with confidence the argument has not gone astray. I find the text very useful where qnuts are posting propaganda publicly. The q recruiters also list a dataset and offer a narrative. Bucky's blog is great for interrupting recruiting, as it includes a broader spread of data points, takes greater care to reflect reality, and provides a more coherent account with fewer ad hoc explanations and less cognitive dissonance (contrasted with the narrative offered by the fascist propaganda sockpuppet in public digital space). In practice, handwaving the qanon poo poo as a 4chan prank just encourages naive lurkers to dive into the rabbit hole. Bucky's narrative is an alternate, competing rabbit hole that inoculates any earnest naive researcher from falling down the fascist one. E2: okay, so that addresses the value of Bucky's narrative when you run into a bad faith fascist propagandist in public digital space. I wanna also point out the value when you cross a true believer. True believers, decieved as they are, are even more powerful recruiters than sockpuppets. The point of sockpuppets is to produce sufficient numbers of decieved true believers to get a second, larger wave of persuasion. This article, read by a true believer, will cause significant cognitive dissonance. The '4chan prank' narrative will not. The q true believer already thinks they're Flynn's digital soldier serving a political outcome. Bucky readjusts that narrative, rather than dismissing it. Uglycat fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Mar 29, 2023 |
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Mar 29, 2023 16:51
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Uglycat posted:True believers, decieved as they are, are even more powerful recruiters than sockpuppets. this is the only relevant part of your post, and it applies to both groups of conspiracy-minded people, qanon types and you/bucky. Mr. Fall Down Terror put it the best so far - nobody is responding with substance because there's nothing of substance to respond to. It's a word salad of gibberish that makes no clear or cogent points save to list things that have happened then gesticulate wildly at other things that have happened in an attempt to connect them. Typically, the things being listed aren't really explored beyond their power to evoke a specific feeling (McCarthyism!!!!! for example) and are disconnected from their true historical context and meaning in order to cram them into the rambling word salad blog post which renders them completely meaningless. It's an earnest and serious attempt to do the Family Guy joke where Lois says 9/11 as the whole content of a political speech, in blog form.
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Mar 29, 2023 17:21
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Uglycat posted:The meat is there, this isn't made up cherry picked strings on a corkboard. It is complicated and often deliberately obscured, so the fact that it isn't yet written as a children's book or haiku should not be used to dismiss the reasoning, evidence, and conclusions offered.
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Mar 29, 2023 17:28
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Uglycat posted:The meat is there, this isn't made up cherry picked strings on a corkboard. It is complicated and often deliberately obscured, so the fact that it isn't yet written as a children's book or haiku should not be used to dismiss the reasoning, evidence, and conclusions offered. the purpose of a cook is to take ingredients, process them and prepare them so that something better than the ingredients - a cooked meal - is the result bucky's argumentative style is a very common one you see in conspiracy circles, more like just leaving all the raw ingredients on the table and asking for people to simply expand their understanding of what a meal is. things like "heat" or "cooking" are just distractions from the larger point, right? is this a sign of brilliant insight, or a sign of a chef who cannot make something better out of the ingredients they have? complex thoughts require complex writing, this is true. this isn't a complex though - nobody is surprised that right wing politicians coopt paranoid, conspiratorial views for their own ends. nobody is surprised that conspiracy theories flourish online. the complex part is the poorly done attempt to fit this into a broader conspiratorial universe. this thread may be the worst place to force recognition of your ideals because this is one of the threads where people who enjoy sniffing out conspiratorial nonsense like to hang out. trimming out reasoning, evidence, and conclusions from this giant bad argument is a good start, but none of that is going to avoid the fact that bucky starts with bad reasoning, bad evidence, and bad conclusions because fundamentally they're not trying to dismantle a conspiracy theory, they're just trying to build an equally complex opposing conspiracy theory
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Mar 29, 2023 17:29
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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:the purpose of a cook is to take ingredients, process them and prepare them so that something better than the ingredients - a cooked meal - is the result I just wanted to complement you on this analogy and alert you to the fact that I'm absolutely stealing it at some point.
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Mar 29, 2023 17:32
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if it helps i can randomly capitalize some words and wedge in long digressions about *rolls dice* the Battle Of Midway, 1942 and Henry Ford's Expansion Of The River Rouge Plant
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Mar 29, 2023 17:40
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