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zoux posted:"Change of Heart" pisses me off because the whole time Worf and Dax have been together they've been miserable, constantly fighting and disagreeing, and you can't understand why they'd stay together. Then they do that episode and Worf is chill and cool and he and Dax get along great and work well together and the actors have great chemistry and I'm like WTF have they been doing this whole time. Also they should've killed Dax is this episode instead of Dark Wizard Dukat but idk if the decision had been made when they wrote it. I think that the Worf and Dax relationship was written as a sort of retry on what they experimented on with TNG before Riker and Troi became The Couple. It gives the writers the option to do Klingon relationship stories, gives Dax something to do, and there wasn't Marina Sirtis fighting tooth and nail to make it not stick as a plot point.
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Mar 27, 2023 19:22
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Perhaps, but the only dynamic they had was Jadzia going "I'm chill and don't care about stuff" and Worf getting mad at her about it, it's so refreshing to see them trading little jokes and supporting each other in Change of Heart. I hate the Worf/Dax relationship but I probably wouldn't if it had been like Change of Heart the whole time. Prior to that, the only rationale given for their relationship is one or the other talking about something that happened off screen. Also what we see of Klingon relationships isn't really what we're getting with Worf, because Worf is a try-hard. Martok getting roasted by his wife the second she sets foot on DS9 and him genially playing along was great. Even Quark's Klingon wife was a better Klingon relationship than Worf/Dax. "I shall endeavor to die, this year if possible" lol
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Mar 27, 2023 19:31
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zoux posted:Perhaps, but the only dynamic they had was Jadzia going "I'm chill and don't care about stuff" and Worf getting mad at her about it, it's so refreshing to see them trading little jokes and supporting each other in Change of Heart. I hate the Worf/Dax relationship but I probably wouldn't if it had been like Change of Heart the whole time. Prior to that, the only rationale given for their relationship is one or the other talking about something that happened off screen. Martok talking marriage with Sisko is one of those scenes I enjoy even if it falls partway into the typical 90's nagging wife stereotype. It manages to take the one aspect Klingons get to do - battle - and extend it semi-believably into a seemingly unrelated part of their culture, a lot like the Klingon lawyer in Rules of Engagement. If the Klingons actually were well rounded people then someone letting their partner's pet who they hate out of the house on purpose because they knew it would run off and die in the forest would be a horrible story to tell about marriage but in the context of Klingons it more like Martok was caught off guard because he was blindly in love. I figure he quietly acknowledges that if he really wanted to keep that pet targ then he should have been more alert to Sirella trying anything to get rid of it and prepared for that. A modern show would probably still feel compelled to have Sisko bring up the human perspective even if the Klingons were still their one note culture but instead DS9 has Sisko understand and accept the METAPHOR!!! instead of being completely literal.
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Mar 27, 2023 21:36
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I liked how it wasn't "my dog ran away," but was instead "my dog had THE HEART OF A WARRIOR and could not resist the CALL TO BATTLE...which is why he ran away."
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Mar 28, 2023 02:56
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Der Kyhe posted:I think that the Worf and Dax relationship was written as a sort of retry on what they experimented on with TNG before Riker and Troi became The Couple. It gives the writers the option to do Klingon relationship stories, gives Dax something to do, and there wasn't Marina Sirtis fighting tooth and nail to make it not stick as a plot point. I don't think Riker and Troi were ever really a couple on TNG, they were just a nebulous ??? relation that had some vague implications at the beginning but never actually manifested to anything during the show's runtime because the show didn't really want to explore growing long-term relationships. If you wanna kiss somebody, they better be dead or on the opposite side of the galaxy by the time the credits roll. With the exception of O'Brien getting married like a normal guy because he was just a background character and his entire romance was offscreen and not caught up in worries about the dramatic status quo.
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Mar 28, 2023 04:54
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I'm engaged with ChatGPT to script out some backstory to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngsqaRD2HI8 and it's going swimmingly. Now I know his motivation and his muse. The future is now.
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Mar 28, 2023 05:49
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I'm going through TNG for the first time, I saw episodes here and there on cable growing up but generally I was a Star Wars kid. My main feeling about the first two seasons was that it was actually one of the more absurd shows I think I've ever seen. And I don't mean that in a bad way, just in the sense that like, you don't typically see shows go for the "everyone is infected with a spore that makes them horny for each other." in like the first 3 episodes of the very first season. Usually you'd expect a show to find it's footing first and establish these characters before having them going on Sherlock Holmes adventures or a trip to the hedonist sex planet. I admire that they just said gently caress it and jumped in with both feet. I was also pretty dumbstruck by the climax of the season 1 episode Conspiracy where Picard and Riker melt that alien dude and his head explodes and then the alien thing crawls out of the scraps of his ribcage. What? Did people flip out when they saw that air in 1988?
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Mar 28, 2023 19:38
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Basebf555 posted:I'm going through TNG for the first time, I saw episodes here and there on cable growing up but generally I was a Star Wars kid. It's true the original series had the forbearance to put off the horny spore episode to the fourth episode. It's always rubbed me wrong that the first post-pilot episode of TNG was a straight rip of one of the most iconic TOS eps. Those bug aliens were the forerunner to the Borg, they were setting them up to be a big time, recurring enemy but it got changed into the Borg somehow
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Mar 28, 2023 19:41
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Yea, the worm people only ever get mentioned in LD later on and also in the Star Trek MMO
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Mar 28, 2023 19:43
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Basebf555 posted:I was also pretty dumbstruck by the climax of the season 1 episode Conspiracy where Picard and Riker melt that alien dude and his head explodes and then the alien thing crawls out of the scraps of his ribcage. What? Did people flip out when they saw that air in 1988? I was six, and hell yes I freaked out.
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Mar 28, 2023 19:46
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CainFortea posted:Yea, the worm people only ever get mentioned in LD later on and also in the Star Trek MMO they were apparently debating bringing them back for the latest season of picard but swerved for other stuff
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Mar 28, 2023 19:48
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Basebf555 posted:I was also pretty dumbstruck by the climax of the season 1 episode Conspiracy where Picard and Riker melt that alien dude and his head explodes and then the alien thing crawls out of the scraps of his ribcage. What? Did people flip out when they saw that air in 1988? They probably just got some angry letters back then. But it sure as hell was burnt into the back of my eyeballs, drat. Would've been cool had we had a Trek series that was all about that kind of goopiness, like Farscape with some of its more visceral aliens.
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Mar 28, 2023 19:53
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They brought them back in some DS9 novels and made them some offshoot of the Trill because...well because.
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Mar 28, 2023 20:06
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Angry_Ed posted:They brought them back in some DS9 novels and made them some offshoot of the Trill because...well because. Oh, so like Dark Trill? I mean it only makes sense, how could a galaxy have TWO organisms that take a host? That's unrealistic! Of course they're related!!!
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Mar 28, 2023 20:16
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The head explosion is shocking but the hollowed-out torso is genuinely horrifying. Along with the generally creepy tone established in the whole episode. It's so drat bleak and gritty and unsettling for Trek. In a not entirely good way.
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Mar 28, 2023 20:25
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Sir Lemming posted:The head explosion is shocking but the hollowed-out torso is genuinely horrifying. Along with the generally creepy tone established in the whole episode. It's so drat bleak and gritty and unsettling for Trek. In a not entirely good way. Yeah I remember an Art of Star Trek book having the concept art of the bluegills and Remmick's hollowed-out burnt husk of a corpse, and commentary saying that the episode might have been a bit too much
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Mar 28, 2023 20:27
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Sir Lemming posted:The head explosion is shocking but the hollowed-out torso is genuinely horrifying. Along with the generally creepy tone established in the whole episode. It's so drat bleak and gritty and unsettling for Trek. In a not entirely good way. That weird, unsettling tone is precisely why I love Conspiracy so much. In a season that mostly played it safe instead of forging its own identity for the new series, Conspiracy dared to go with a premise unlike anything v that came before - or after - it. F_Shit_Fitzgerald fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Mar 28, 2023 |
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Mar 28, 2023 20:48
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Lower Decks and Strange New Worlds got early renewals (5 and 3 respectively) before their next season aired.
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Mar 28, 2023 22:00
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As they should.
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Mar 28, 2023 22:05
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OP i'd encourage you to read the memory alpha episode articles while you're doing your rewatch, they are, ah, extremely detailed. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Conspiracy_(episode) - Writer Tracy Tormé, adapting a story by Robert Sabaroff to The Next Generation, had hoped to make "Conspiracy" a commentary on the Iran/Contra Affair, but this potentially controversial notion was nixed. A plot by Starfleet officers out to undermine the Prime Directive (already introduced six episodes before, in "Coming of Age"), turned out to be the result of an infestation of alien insects, not part of Tormé's original approach. - The episode was critiqued by Maurice "Maury" Hurley. "I wrote this thing called 'Conspiracy' and I was intentionally trying to shake things up and do a different kind of story [....] Maury came back to me and said it's not Star Trek," Tormé remembered. "It's too dark, it's got a dark ending, it's unhappy, it's this and that, and he turned it down. Somebody overruled him, maybe it was Rick Berman, but somebody loved the script and thought it's exactly what we should be doing, but Maury and I had a very bad relationship from that point on." -The original version of the script did not feature alien parasites; the conspiracy in question was simply a military coup within Starfleet. Gene Roddenberry vehemently opposed such an idea, since he believed that Starfleet would never stoop to such methods; there was just no way Tormé could get away with suggesting that the Federation was anything less than a perfect government. Thus, the alien angle was introduced at his insistence. Star Trek: Deep Space Nine later featured a similar plot, however, in the two-part episodes "Homefront" and "Paradise Lost". -Indeed, the whole idea of the episode, its violence, and its unresolved ending caused quite a stir, but Robert Justman, Rick Berman, and Rob Lewin backed Tormé against the objections of Maurice Hurley, and the show stood pretty much as he had intended it, with the topical references subtly shoved under the carpet. Things did not go so well for writer Tormé in the future; he was left with the feeling that, as far as creative freedom for writers, the second half of Star Trek: The Next Generation's second season was the best part of the series as a whole. -The ending in Tormé's original script had threat of the parasites definitively ended. Justman felt this was too anticlimactic and suggested ending the episode with the implication that the parasites were the vanguard of a much more powerful threat.
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Mar 28, 2023 22:19
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I may have posted it here before, or in another Star Trek thread somewhere, but I always thought that would have been a good foreshadowing or whatever the gently caress for a TNG movie. At the end of that episode Data says something like they sent out a signal, or a beacon (I forget exactly) and then when it cuts to space, you can hear some kind of Morse Code sounding stuff just before the credits. They could have had that signal going to somewhere obscure like the other side of the Beta Quadrant, since by the time the TNG movies came about, there had been enough stuff set in Gamma and Delta Quadrant. Bug aliens come to the alpha quadrant and try to gently caress poo poo up, TNG crew come and save the day blah blah blah.
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Mar 28, 2023 23:24
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wesleywillis posted:I may have posted it here before, or in another Star Trek thread somewhere, but I always thought that would have been a good foreshadowing or whatever the gently caress for a TNG movie. I'm almost certain the writers hadn't yet nailed down galactic geography into the four Greek-letter quadrants at the time this episode was made.
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Mar 28, 2023 23:29
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wesleywillis posted:I may have posted it here before, or in another Star Trek thread somewhere, but I always thought that would have been a good foreshadowing or whatever the gently caress for a TNG movie. It was foreshadowing for what eventually became the Borg. The Borg were cheaper to do than the worm aliens.
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Mar 28, 2023 23:32
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Which is funny because then on Enterprise they reference that with the Borg sending out the signal at the end that I assume is meant to be why there is a cube heading towards Federation space in 'Q, Who'.
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Mar 28, 2023 23:47
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Powered Descent posted:I'm almost certain the writers hadn't yet nailed down galactic geography into the four Greek-letter quadrants at the time this episode was made. Yeah, I'm not saying they'd have done an episode(s) for the following season, but rather a TNG movie. By the time the TNG movies came out we'd heard of Alpha, Beta Gamma and Delta hadn't we?
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Mar 29, 2023 00:17
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wesleywillis posted:Yeah, I'm not saying they'd have done an episode(s) for the following season, but rather a TNG movie. By the time the TNG movies came out we'd heard of Alpha, Beta Gamma and Delta hadn't we? Ah, I thought you meant the original episode would say it had gone to the Beta quadrant, my mistake.
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Mar 29, 2023 00:29
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Brawnfire posted:Oh, so like Dark Trill? Well, nearly every humanoid in the Galaxy is related so that checks out.
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Mar 29, 2023 00:34
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F_Shit_Fitzgerald posted:That weird, unsettling tone is precisely why I love Conspiracy so much. In a season that mostly played it safe instead of forging its own identity for the new series, Conspiracy dared to go with a premise unlike anything v that came before - or after - it. It's definitely interesting, but I'm also glad they took one look at that and said "yeah let's not do that again" I would dispute them playing it safe though, if anything I like season 1 because they're trying so many different things.
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Mar 29, 2023 01:00
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wesleywillis posted:I may have posted it here before, or in another Star Trek thread somewhere, but I always thought that would have been a good foreshadowing or whatever the gently caress for a TNG movie.
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Mar 29, 2023 01:03
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Knormal posted:They should do an episode where the bug fleet shows up, but by the time they got there their ships are all 40 year old technology and they get quickly obliterated. The federation has been preparing by building dilithium powered cans of RAID.
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Mar 29, 2023 01:20
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The new STO ship is neat!    (Although personally I think the Kusanagi Class was an even better take on the concept.) I like it when they create lineage versions of classes. MikeJF fucked around with this message at 04:46 on Mar 29, 2023 |
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Mar 29, 2023 04:40
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I was like That’s an Akira and then i saw that was the point
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Mar 29, 2023 04:48
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zoux posted:I was like That’s an Akira and then i saw that was the point Yeah they'll often do older/newer version of existing ship. Like when they made an Excelsior era version of the Shenzou from Discovery    Or the Ambassadorstitution and the Sovereistution   or the galaxiranda 
MikeJF fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Mar 29, 2023 |
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Mar 29, 2023 04:54
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i was watching "the mark of gideon" and god i hate ambassador hodin lol interestingly the episode was co-written by stanley adams (cyrano jones), who had some rather strong opinions about overpopulation
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Mar 29, 2023 05:01
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In HD, when they're shooting the big bug in Remmick's burned-out chest cavity, you can see blood dripping from his bonesArivia posted:they were apparently debating bringing them back for the latest season of picard but swerved for other stuff They gave a bogus reason of "the bugs kill their hosts and we didn't want to commit to that" but that's bullshit because we saw Admiral Quinn alive and well at the end of the episode. Farmer Crack-Ass fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Mar 29, 2023 |
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Mar 29, 2023 05:08
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wesleywillis posted:The federation has been preparing by building dilithium powered cans of RAID. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BCHoXoSR5I How Wolf 359 goes down this time
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Mar 29, 2023 05:17
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MikeJF posted:The new STO ship is neat! That looks awesome
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Mar 29, 2023 05:18
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MikeJF posted:Yeah they'll often do older/newer version of existing ship. Those constitution variants are a bit derpy, but me gusta mucho that galaxiranda! It's even got Cheyenne-style nacelles, that's great attention to detail EDIT also it goes without saying that TOS movie aesthetic anything is automatically the GOAT
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Mar 29, 2023 09:20
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Barry Foster posted:EDIT also it goes without saying that TOS movie aesthetic anything is automatically the GOAT
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Mar 29, 2023 09:30
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You can't trick me into reinstalling sto with your pretty starships with big nacelles and round saucer sections, you think I'm some kind of animal?
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Mar 29, 2023 09:57
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