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(Thread IKs: skooma512)
 
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endlessmonotony
Nov 4, 2009

by Fritz the Horse

Nix Panicus posted:

Thorn isn't aware they're right wing

Wow. That isn't even a burn, that's just plain baffling.

How can someone's views be that far from what they see themselves as? I read this loving thread and I'm still going "wait you think that would ever work?".

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webcams for christ
Nov 2, 2005

Marx Headroom posted:

hes not wrong that students tend to stay within the same level of academic peformance throughout their career regardless of interventions, which suggests that some genetic basis of intelligence (that we have yet to understand) is a deciding factor in outcomes

what he glossed over* was that these discrepancies dont exist across race. so some kids tend to be naturally dumber/smarter compared to their peers (and we currently have no way to fix this), but no races tend to be dumber/smarter than others

you kind of have to compare the research to figure this out, hence occasionally looking at lovely stuff like the bell curve. theres nothing inherently wrong with engaging with it seriously.

and like, theres nothing inherently anti-left about natural talent deciding outcomes within cohorts. there are absolutely leftist ways to accommodate this conclusion and provide fair, just education systems for all students. we cant provide these systems unless we understand how the needs of these kids actually works, and that means confronting the reality of the situation, even if the science leads to uncomfortable places. you cant just throw out science, in fact good science should be the basis of a rational communist society. you can do the science better but you cant just ignore the conclusions you dont like.

if you refuse to even consider things like intelligence scores and academic testing then youre ignoring the actual needs of kids and frankly youre not really committed to acadmic justice

yeah it's a touchy subject to say the least, but I think writers like Freddie deBoer have done a fairly good job wading in.

however it's extremely difficult, if not impossible to disentangle genetic/biological aspects of academic performance outcomes from early childhood development, socialization, and environment

e: yeah this


ArmZ posted:

if we're talking about practicalities, a lot of what can be changed about a person's development is determined before they turn 6. we know what the right answer is: universal young mother/parent and infant/pre-k programs. but the people in charge simply won't spend the money.

slave to my cravings
Mar 1, 2007

Got my mind on doritos and doritos on my mind.

I looked at the article and it only mentions “remote work” in a single sentence lol

the headline completely mismatches the actual article which is saying commercial real estate is in trouble

Zodium
Jun 19, 2004

Marx Headroom posted:

hes not wrong that students tend to stay within the same level of academic peformance throughout their career regardless of interventions, which suggests that some genetic basis of intelligence (that we have yet to understand) is a deciding factor in outcomes

what he glossed over* was that these discrepancies dont exist across race. so some kids tend to be naturally dumber/smarter compared to their peers (and we currently have no way to fix this), but no races tend to be dumber/smarter than others

you kind of have to compare the research to figure this out, hence occasionally looking at lovely stuff like the bell curve. theres nothing inherently wrong with engaging with it seriously.

and like, theres nothing inherently anti-left about natural talent deciding outcomes within cohorts. there are absolutely leftist ways to accommodate this conclusion and provide fair, just education systems for all students. we cant provide these systems unless we understand how the needs of these kids actually works, and that means confronting the reality of the situation, even if the science leads to uncomfortable places. you cant just throw out science, in fact good science should be the basis of a rational communist society. you can do the science better but you cant just ignore the conclusions you dont like.

if you refuse to even consider things like intelligence scores and academic testing then youre ignoring the actual needs of kids and frankly youre not really committed to acadmic justice

*I dont see why he wouldve needed to bring this up bc they were discussing gifted student programs, not whether Asians are better at math or whatever, so idk why people are acting like hes a race scientist or something

im begging you to read van der maas

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud
Apr 7, 2003



15m is just the start, this is going to be completely loving catastrophic for rural healthcare

HallelujahLee
May 3, 2009

ArmZ posted:

if we're talking about practicalities, a lot of what can be changed about a person's development is determined before they turn 6. we know what the right answer is: universal young mother/parent and infant/pre-k programs. but the people in charge simply won't spend the money.

add in actual paid maternity leave as well and other nice benefits

Zodium
Jun 19, 2004

why do goons love latent variable theories so much. loving hell

webcams for christ
Nov 2, 2005

Zodium posted:

why do goons love latent variable theories so much. loving hell

because they're the easiest to wildly speculate about without having to provide observable evidence

i am harry
Oct 14, 2003

Thorn Wishes Talon posted:

yeah... crazy! this type of thing never happens in other countries

stop with this bitchass dnd posting

america loving sucks that’s one of the core tenets of this forum.

HallelujahLee
May 3, 2009

yeah it tends to happen alot in poor nations that simply cant even afford to repair infrastructure and yet its very common in the richest one

Pittsburgh Fentanyl Cloud
Apr 7, 2003


It turns out that living in the richest society to ever exist in human history doesn't mean a whole lot if you're giving 90% of that wealth to fifty people.

Pepe Silvia Browne
Jan 1, 2007
money money everywhere but not enough to pay the service staff

MickeyFinn
May 8, 2007
Biggie Smalls and Junior Mafia some mark ass bitches

Hey ma, I’m doing my part!

Nodelphi
Jan 30, 2004

We are all quite capable of believing in anything as long as it's improbable.

Ham Wrangler

Pepe Silvia Browne posted:

money money everywhere but not enough to pay the service staff

Feudalism reinvented as a disruptive breakthrough.

Woke Mind Virus
Aug 22, 2005

stop posting doom in doomsday economics

Pepe Silvia Browne
Jan 1, 2007

Nodelphi posted:

Feudalism reinvented as a disruptive breakthrough.

"but sire, the masons require more shillings to repair the castle walls!"

"BAH, MASONS! if they knew anything, they would own the castle! These walls stood fine when my father was king, and no greedy mason's penny pinching will cause them to fall!"

Mr Hootington
Jul 24, 2008

I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY
The xenophobia comes calling. Prepare to die binance
https://twitter.com/FirstSquawk/status/1641048787593445376?t=gGjw-4ZTaAOlSgIhR1psug&s=19

Pf. Hikikomoriarty
Feb 15, 2003

RO YNSHO


Slippery Tilde

Hockenheim posted:

poo poo seems pretty bad lol

Marx Headroom
May 10, 2007

AT LAST! A show with nonono commercials!
Fallen Rib

webcams for christ posted:

yeah it's a touchy subject to say the least, but I think writers like Freddie deBoer have done a fairly good job wading in.

yeah that dude is my main exposure to this stuff, but its compelling. he coincidentally explained his education views this morning if anyone wants to burn 30 mins on some good crunchy leftist data nerd grump writing

he seems to agree with you about too many variables:

quote:

I think that the urge to reduce the racial achievement gap only to [economic disparities] underestimates how profoundly multivariate racial inequality is in this country; there are innumerable environmental, social, and cultural differences between racial classes that could be influencing academic outcomes.

Unfortunately, it’s harder to change many variables of small effect than one variable of great effect. Part of the reason that I’m a big supporter of just giving people money is that parents who have more monetary resources are more likely to be able to change these many variables of small effect than government would be able to directly.

Pepe Silvia Browne
Jan 1, 2007

the real problem with crypto.... it's too chinese

HallelujahLee
May 3, 2009

uh oh

Mr Hootington
Jul 24, 2008

I'M HAVING A HOOT EATING CORNETTE THE LONG WAY
What if we structured society not based on wealth but by intelligence?

Zodium
Jun 19, 2004

Marx Headroom posted:

yeah that dude is my main exposure to this stuff

of course he is lol

freddie's r

Gunshow Poophole
Sep 14, 2008

OMBUDSMAN
POSTERS LOCAL 42069




Clapping Larry

Mr Hootington posted:

What if we structured society not based on wealth but by intelligence?

im nothing like thos ebeastly Gammas, no

HallelujahLee
May 3, 2009

Mr Hootington posted:

What if we structured society not based on wealth but by intelligence?

goons screwed either way

Cpt_Obvious
Jun 18, 2007

Academic performance has little to do with "intelligence". Training is far more important than any innate quality anyway.

RadiRoot
Feb 3, 2007
ugh i need a new job. :bang:

Cpt_Obvious
Jun 18, 2007

It's doubly true when the "facts" you're meant to regurgitate for grades are garbage.

NeatHeteroDude
Jan 15, 2017

Cpt_Obvious posted:

Academic performance has little to do with "intelligence". Training is far more important than any innate quality anyway.

Zodium
Jun 19, 2004

iq is useful for measuring serious cognitive problems either in general or specific areas, like if a kid scores two-three standard deviations below norm, or for measuring intra-individual variability in cognitive performance, like if your iq or performance in a specific area suddenly drops. there is no material g, it's a statistical construct based on an observed positive manifold, and freddie de boer needs to stop posting about behavior because he's always wrong.

NeatHeteroDude
Jan 15, 2017

The assessments used by classroom teachers to quantify academic performance usually aren't anything close to standardized and a poorly written assessment on adding 2 digit numbers can return the same score as an assessment for long division if you administer them to the same student population.

When teachers suck at assessment (many do and refuse to read any research about how to do it better) you end up with kids selected for the ability to process and respond to a tests' neuroses instead of kids who actually know how to generalize and apply knowledge and skills

HallelujahLee
May 3, 2009

are you telling me our education system is a decayed rotting husk

Zodium
Jun 19, 2004

HallelujahLee posted:

are you telling me our education system is a decayed rotting husk

it was designed wrong, as a joke

i am harry
Oct 14, 2003


I think we can safely say binance hid extensive links with literally everything you could link with.

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

I know a lot of very smart people who floundered in university while Homework Kid Strivers graduated with high honours - and don't seem to have learned much.

I wonder if more schools allowing students to challenge exams for credit would help. A lot of people know the material but hate doing work that doesn't interest them.

genericnick
Dec 26, 2012


Toxic Tuesday?

Zodium
Jun 19, 2004

van der maas ftw

i am harry
Oct 14, 2003

the human brain has evolved to focus and specialize in something. that’s why you’re always posting multi paragraph things about history and pfc always talks about himself.
that we have decided everyone needs a basic understanding of 100x what anyone actually needs to know, in lieu of any encouragement to specialize, is why we’re going to die out.

That Works
Jul 22, 2006

Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy


Frosted Flake posted:

I know a lot of very smart people who floundered in university while Homework Kid Strivers graduated with high honours - and don't seem to have learned much.

I wonder if more schools allowing students to challenge exams for credit would help. A lot of people know the material but hate doing work that doesn't interest them.

As someone who teaches in higher ed, the biggest problem is the economization of it. Our Uni would rather us have max number of asses in seats flying through the program as fast as we can churn them out.

Instead, class sizes should be small, instruction much more direct and personalized. The work I do in a room full of 20 students and the way I can evaluate, train and help those students improve is easily 5-10x better than what I can do when its 200 students in the same course.

I go from individually grading written responses and reviewing them with the students to help ones who are struggling to just brrrrrrting a stack of scantrons through 3x a semester and telling the kids who whine to gently caress off because I can't give good feedback to hundreds of them per week.

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kazmeyer
Jul 26, 2001

'Cause we're the good guys.

GameStop stock news: They released their 10-K detailing stock holdings which has set off the howler monkeys. Currently the leading theory is the SEC made them lie about how many shares are held or available to prevent capitalism from foundering, but they secretly gave out the real numbers in an NFT they released this week, and the company's about to begin leading an exodus from Wall Street an establish a new stock market where there won't be this kind of blatant manipulation.

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