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comedyblissoption posted:also the unfolding narrative kchama posted is internally inconsistent. it says that the project was wiped in a malicious way that was not recoverable so they could no longer work on the project, but then they said they received a copy of the treacherous private server. which is it? According to Mr. A’s own account, when IA came for the files, he consulted his lawyer and on his lawyer’s advice wiped the server. comedyblissoption posted:theres probably a billion clones being worked on right now so maybe someone can recreate the magic When the project leads who know everything about the project quit and your files disappear, it’s probably impossible to recreate it as had been greenlit. This is why P3 as it existed was cancelled and the remaining asked to work on another project. Kchama fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Mar 31, 2023 |
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Mar 31, 2023 05:11
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comedyblissoption posted:it says that the project was wiped in a malicious way that was not recoverable so they could no longer work on the project, but then they said they received a copy of the treacherous private server. which is it? What Ironmace is saying is: we wiped it, didn't use it for Dark and Darker. What Nexon is saying is: but we have it, we see what you did. Each side is just posturing. Can't really go off this for anything. They say this, we say that, lawyers and the court will decide. comedyblissoption posted:
This is a lot of what the main stuff is: what was recovered. Nexon is arguing that Ironmace had a private server Nexon allowed for a partial part of development, but then disallowed. Then Nexon said, no, shut it down, which Ironmace did not. Also, as an aside, that kind of embellishment isn't necessary and just distracts. Nexon and it's defenders could say they rushed in and heroically defended the last vestments of the remaining virtues of their blessed sovereignty and it would play as much as that poo poo you are putting out. I'm impartial, almost leaning towards to Ironmace because I want to play Dark and Darker (gently caress, I made this thread) but that embellishment doesn't do any justice other than to try and sway one side against another. comedyblissoption posted:did ironmace just say yeah there was a server you permitted and knew about from the previous project you cancelled and here's the code from it for the current project cya. That's a chunk of this. Ironmace is saying that they stopped developing after told not to, Nexon is saying they didn't. Insider info from an anonymous source is being released that says Ironmace did not stop developing off that. Ironmace is even saying they continued to develop on the private server because the poo poo Nexon developed wasn't good enough (that's from their Discord Q&A). Nexon is arguing they said stop developing on private server and created an atmosphere that allowed home development while still letting that development exist on Nexon servers. Nexon is saying Ironmace didn't do that and just continued with private server development. That's just what both sides are saying. Completely impartial, I don't give a gently caress other than I want to play Dark and Darker, get off my nuts if you don't like how it plays, either way.
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Mar 31, 2023 05:19
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Kchama posted:A Korean site called 'Blind' that people use to anonymously air stuff. Another employee on the LF/P3 team talked about what happened. I realize this isn't Debate and Discussion, but come on man, that's not a source, that's one step above something you heard a dude say while you were on the shitter at a bus station. Even if it wasn't anonymous it's from someone who is self reporting as an employee at the plaintiff company. (As an aside it occurs to me that an employee leaking internal info about this case on an unsecured shitpost website is probably almost as bad as an employee using expired authorization to justify hosting an unsecured offsite work server, but weirdly, one of these is a sign of bad ethics and the other is a rock solid source? But I digress.) But ok, you're going to take an anonymous shitpost at face value to defend this very specific large corporation that does not need your help for no real reason at all but your sense of... fairness? Duty to truth? A half dozen posts in this thread on the same theme, none prior to this incident? That's a lot of uncompensated labor, comrade. As long as I live I will never understand the impulse of a free born human being in TYOOL 2023 to hop on the internet to defend the honor of any large corporation, billionaire, or government agency vs the little person. Further, I just can't imagine being a game enthusiast of any kind and seeing the world get one less cool fun game that hundreds of thousands of people are very excited about, at the behest of a giant corporation, and being anything other than extremely skeptical about the motives and/or angry. Like if you lack any reflexive cynicism about this kind of poo poo after everything that happens in our world every single day, let alone the earliest history of computers and the internet, to the point where you feel compelled to do free PR for your laird Nexon Corporation, I guess you've got an extremely resilient sense of something or other that must have fled my brain long since. Oh and let's get a link to this post too, Google Translate makes reading this poo poo pretty easy and I'd love to see the evidence laid out from this Nexon Deep Throat risking their career and maybe a fine or prison sentence or whatever for leaking inside info about an active police investigation and DMCA suit.
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Mar 31, 2023 05:34
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Franks Happy Place posted:I realize this isn't Debate and Discussion, but come on man, that's not a source, that's one step above something you heard a dude say while you were on the shitter at a bus station. Even if it wasn't anonymous it's from someone who is self reporting as an employee at the plaintiff company. As I said, I am not advocating one way or another about it, I am simply reporting what it said. It is Nexon's/Nexon's Employee Account of what's going on, which is good to lay out since we've basically heard nothing from their POV. People who have dug into it deeper (such as Kira) has confirmed that it jives with the reporting in Korea on the topic, so there's some merit to the anonymous sourcing.
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Mar 31, 2023 05:42
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i appreciate relaying korean shitposts on the internet
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Mar 31, 2023 05:43
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I really hate to say this because I want to play dark and darker but some blind site is also where this entire shitfest was first reported before it became real news, back before the last playtest iirc so while you're otherwise right to be skeptical, this uh, has happened before regardless: all you're gonna hear is rampant speculation until the case is over and/or we somehow get a playtest in spite of it, so like, don't stress over it or what the speculators are saying expect that dark n darker is dead, hope that it isn't
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Mar 31, 2023 05:45
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comedyblissoption posted:i appreciate relaying korean shitposts on the internet Quantifying it as a 'shitpost' seems pretty disingenuous, to be honest. Yeah sure it's anonymous, but stuff has come out to support it and Nexon's probably not giving the greenlight for its employees to speak openly about it with the court case going on. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24g-JV82Zok Here's a video from a Dark & Darker fanboy who delves into things deeply.
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Mar 31, 2023 05:47
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I mean the biggest red flag for me is that they clearly still have some access to the game/code but just scrapped it until the last second when they saw the playtests were going to make the game profitable for Ironmace. They are just in it for the money. Sure they brought a lawsuit against the guy in 2021, but they didn't even attempt to salvage the project. Clearly they didn't have that much faith in it or they would have tried to continue developing it. For that reason alone I don't really support their case and hope Ironmace wins. They had faith in the idea they wanted to create, and seemingly they were the only people capable of making it anyway, so I consider it theirs.
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Mar 31, 2023 05:47
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Akumos posted:I mean the biggest red flag for me is that they clearly still have some access to the game/code but just scrapped it until the last second when they saw the playtests were going to make the game profitable for Ironmace. They are just in it for the money. Sure they brought a lawsuit against the guy in 2021, but they didn't even attempt to salvage the project. Clearly they didn't have that much faith in it or they would have tried to continue developing it. For that reason alone I don't really support their case and hope Ironmace wins. They had faith in the idea they wanted to create, and seemingly they were the only people capable of making it anyway, so I consider it theirs. According to the blind post, it had been in early alpha and all the major devs on it left. How do you salvage something when the core team members are all gone? That's a sincere question. The main people left behind seemed to be animators and artists.
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Mar 31, 2023 05:55
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Absolutely everything we have is from anonymous sources, other than claims from the two companies involved, which are just claims. You can like this company, you can like that company and that's gonna affect your opinion. You shouldn't be getting upset at anyone who is just talking about the information we all have. All anyone here is talking about is what we are hearing from any source. You all can dial back the getting upset about this person saying this or that that I don't agree with. This is all very interesting to watch and I'm curious how its gonna play out.
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Mar 31, 2023 05:58
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Both companies are lying to make themselves seem better. All of this is real sad because this could be an awesome game, and it will never see the light of day now. Regardless who is right or wrong, Nexon will bleed out Ironmace.
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Mar 31, 2023 06:00
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Kchama posted:According to the blind post, it had been in early alpha and all the major devs on it left. How do you salvage something when the core team members are all gone? That's a sincere question. The main people left behind seemed to be animators and artists. I mean, what credibility does that post have? I'm unfamiliar with Blind, so should we be believing it or could anyone absolutely post anything there? They post seemed very in depth and acknowledged several points, which lends a bit of credibility. And why would someone go though that effort to mimic that, but at the same time, could it just be the Korean me or you posting that?
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Mar 31, 2023 06:00
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if they still have the assets and code and design documents, you...hire employees to continue the project
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Mar 31, 2023 06:01
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Reporting information is not defending Nexxon Jesus Christ get a grip goons. I want to play D&D too but it's all gonna be rumor and heresay until things play out. Feel free to remain skeptical of any and all information but don't transfer your feelings about the situation onto some poor dude and come out swining implying he's a nexxon scab or something.
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Mar 31, 2023 06:02
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Right, all that Kchama did was present a side that had not been talked about until now, and it's got some play. The information could be wrong or right, but until now, the main sentiment has been "Ironmace good, Nexon bad". Let's just be impartial until we shouldn't be. That subreddit is full of just poo poo posting about Nexon trying to trademark absolutely everything fantasy related, from swords to character sprites, and it turns out that it isn't any of their case.
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Mar 31, 2023 06:06
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comedyblissoption posted:if they still have the assets and code and design documents, you...hire employees to continue the project How much of that design did they have? We can't be sure of how much of it was in the private server of Mr. A or on the Nexon servers. What it seems is that the main designers of it worked on it via the private server, during COVID, and Mr. A did not transfer it to Nexon when Nexon made their servers available? Am I just misreading that? If some of it was, sure, but how much of it?
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Mar 31, 2023 06:09
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If you want to post links to Korean legal documents or actual journalism or whatever confirmed information fill your boots, I'm just saying that an anonymous post from a Nexon employee on the topic is basically as credible as a mod post in the Ironmace forum, and that you should probably be less credulous when it comes to big corporations in general anyways because they are the thief of fun.
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Mar 31, 2023 06:17
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even if hypothetically you don't have the design documents b/c the ironmace employees were total assholes, it really doesn't matter if you had a compilable game and the source for the decision to continue the project. as far as i understand game design, once you have a working prototype with any semblance of fun you should just throw the original design documents in the trash where they belong. halo was originally envisioned as...an rts game. if nexon had the code and still decided not to continue the project, then they really were not invested in the idea it's as simple as that. yes corporate bureaucracies can make hiring or backfilling stupidly inflexible but that's not ironmace's problem.
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Mar 31, 2023 06:18
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comedyblissoption posted:even if hypothetically you don't have the design documents b/c the ironmace employees were total assholes, it really doesn't matter if you had a compilable game and the source for the decision to continue the project. as far as i understand game design, once you have a working prototype with any semblance of fun you should just throw the original design documents in the trash where they belong. halo was originally envisioned as...an rts game. We don't know if they have the code at all is the problem, and it seems like the issue is that he kept the code on his private server at home, and when he made it clear he intended to quit to make his own game at his company, IA showed up asking about the fact that he still apparently still had a home server, and he deleted it at the instruction of his lawyer (this is something from the lead dev's own words that Ironmace put out).
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Mar 31, 2023 06:26
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ShowTime posted:Right, all that Kchama did was present a side that had not been talked about until now, and it's got some play. The information could be wrong or right, but until now, the main sentiment has been "Ironmace good, Nexon bad". Let's just be impartial until we shouldn't be. That subreddit is full of just poo poo posting about Nexon trying to trademark absolutely everything fantasy related, from swords to character sprites, and it turns out that it isn't any of their case. no need to be impartial about loving nexon lmfao
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Mar 31, 2023 06:33
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I'm curious what they are gonna try and trademark in court and what sticks. I was thinking about this as I was reading or listening to everything and if a game is this: ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ and you put out ABCDE Even if ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ is known way before. Everyone knows a fantasy looter extractor is good and gonna sell. You do, I do, but do the guys that did ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ first have a claim?
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Mar 31, 2023 06:33
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it's equivalent to saying your employees designing your next suv can't be poached to build a competitor's suv or you'll sue them under bullshit noncompete clauses. medieval tarkov isn't exactly an outlandish idea that deserves monopoly rights and there's been a bunch of tarkov-likes made already. and tarkov's closed beta is 6 years old now.
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Mar 31, 2023 06:38
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yea but if you put out a land rover and I put out a range rover? Whats really the difference?
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Mar 31, 2023 06:48
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comedyblissoption posted:it's equivalent to saying your employees designing your next suv can't be poached to build a competitor's suv or you'll sue them under bullshit noncompete clauses.
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Mar 31, 2023 07:12
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I think Nexon should be shuttered permanently personally.
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Mar 31, 2023 15:00
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I'm curious who the secret people investing in Ironmace are, I heard it was some Nexon competitor. Maybe they can fund the legal issues, esp after seeing the likely success of the game? Surely they must have some good skin in the game now, like 15-25% at least of the company, I doubt Ironmace could afford to start a studio and do publishing and development without giving a portion of the company to investors.
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Mar 31, 2023 16:10
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Akumos posted:I'm curious who the secret people investing in Ironmace are, I heard it was some Nexon competitor. Maybe they can fund the legal issues, esp after seeing the likely success of the game? Surely they must have some good skin in the game now, like 15-25% at least of the company, I doubt Ironmace could afford to start a studio and do publishing and development without giving a portion of the company to investors. Hive IM seems to be the big one. There were apparently other, less secret investors like TenCent, but they all abandoned Ironmace to the wolves the moment it became clear that Nexon had a good case. Groovelord Neato posted:I think Nexon should be shuttered permanently personally. I hate Nexon too, but trying to be worse than them isn't the way to go. (I'm referring to Ironmace here, not you.) Kchama fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Mar 31, 2023 |
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Mar 31, 2023 16:53
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ironmace did nothing wrong
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Mar 31, 2023 19:31
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They just made this announcement on discord asking for legal funding, apparently without even consulting the other devs: Kinda questionable to crowdfund massive legal fees that likely won't make a difference, and makes them seem desperate now, assuming this isn't just a scam. Sailor Dave fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Mar 31, 2023 |
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Mar 31, 2023 23:26
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Yikes!!!!!
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Mar 31, 2023 23:34
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game dead, so what
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Mar 31, 2023 23:35
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Post got deleted, I assume it wasn't PR friendly or may hurt their case.. whoops. With that said they raised 40k in like a half hour, they probably could crowdfund the legal fees. Edit: Nm it's back, apparently rogue discord mods decided it might be a hack and deleted the devs post 
Akumos fucked around with this message at 23:55 on Mar 31, 2023 |
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Mar 31, 2023 23:51
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 lol. lmao, even e: the hacked(???) message's 2nd post is still up, seemingly not getting deleted. wonder what's going on behind the scenes. what a loving mess LazyMaybe fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Apr 1, 2023 |
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Apr 1, 2023 00:16
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The gofundme campaign is now down lmao
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Apr 1, 2023 00:21
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Holy hell what a poo poo show. Lmao indeed.
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Apr 1, 2023 00:25
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Dead and Deader
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Apr 1, 2023 00:34
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Oh my god I just wanted to bonk heads and loot gold this is wrong it’s all wrong.
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Apr 1, 2023 00:41
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What the hell Looks like the go fund me was confirmed by other devs though Demon Of The Fall fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Apr 1, 2023 |
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Apr 1, 2023 00:51
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Apr 1, 2023 01:06
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DisgracelandUSA posted:The dream is dead. E:  quote:Hello @everyone!
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Apr 1, 2023 02:05
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