AndrewP posted:

how many of those things will actually be fun though

colonelwest posted:

Yeah loading screens are basically trivial these days with PCIE SSDs everywhere, even in consoles.

But it goes back to the all encompassing space life simulator dream at the heart of Star Citizen. The game world has to be completely skeuomorphic, even if it makes the experience aggressively boring or perform like crap on even the highest end rigs. So anything from 8k textures on a coffee maker to physicalized elevators are all important steps towards the Matrix that SC is sure to become someday.

dr_rat posted:

Fun isn't the point!!!

Aqua Seafoam Shame posted:

Also what the gently caress is these people's obsession with loading screens? Like he thinks a lack of loading screens is as significant an innovation as sound in film? What the gently caress?

What's even wrong with loading screens? They're so fast these days you rarely even notice, or you get a short delay. Also some of my best memories of older games are the stuff they would do during loading screens, like Bioshock Infinite's elevator dialogue.

Randalor posted:

Isn't there a specific reason computers use binary at the core of what they do? Isn't what he's wanting requiring building something so fundamentally different that it wouldn't be recognizable as a computer? Otherwise isn't that still just bits but with extra steps?

Thoatse posted:

What does FUN stand for? -a citizen. probably.

Thoatse posted:

https://i.imgur.com/3Zgv3zE.mp4

Scruffpuff posted:

Coach dog to the right.

Thoatse posted:

What does FUN stand for? -a citizen. probably.

Maxwell Lord posted:

How many servers are they anticipating having, like, in total.

Googling, WoW has something like 263, FFXIV has 68.

Trilobite posted:

Chris has bloviated about how server meshing means there'll just be tons of servers

Randalor posted:

So... what's the deal with the tophat cat posts anyways? Is it just someone's long running art piece about the inanity of the promises by big corporations and how people will believe any pie-in-the-sky statements as long as it makes them feel good? Is it someone who works for CIG and is seeing how much bullshit the consumer will believe? Is it a chatgpt prompt for "Starcitizen *insert tech promise here*"?

Randalor posted:

So... what's the deal with the tophat cat posts anyways? Is it just someone's long running art piece about the inanity of the promises by big corporations and how people will believe any pie-in-the-sky statements as long as it makes them feel good? Is it someone who works for CIG and is seeing how much bullshit the consumer will believe? Is it a chatgpt prompt for "Starcitizen *insert tech promise here*"?

Maxwell Lord posted:

How many servers are they anticipating having, like, in total.

Googling, WoW has something like 263, FFXIV has 68.

Trilobite posted:

Chris has bloviated about how server meshing means there'll just be tons of servers, each of them handling a small enough area around a player to be responsive yet somehow seamlessly communicating the things happening on them to every other server handling every other area nearby without any lag. Possibly each individual player will be on their own server! A bullet flying out of one ship and crossing space to hit someone on another ship might pass through three or more servers to get there! The cloud will handle it all! The power in the machines makes it all possible!

So, uh, that's the dumbest answer to your question, from the dumbest person at CIG. I wouldn't be surprised if someone there hasn't tried to bring up the subject of how many servers they might actually need (and specifically how much operating them will cost) and been told to shut the gently caress up because 1.) talking about actual game development issues with any level of awareness and/or expertise will only make Chris angry, and 2.) nobody loving cares because the game isn't "done" without that magical server meshing, which is never going to happen, so nobody's ever going to have to do that math.


Oh, also? True believers used to say that the big advantage of CIG "switching to Lumberyard" (aka declaring that they were on Lumberyard now without actually changing anything) is that of course Amazon will give them a huge price break on cloud services and let them spin up new servers for basically free, because why wouldn't Amazon want to bask in the reflected glory of the world's first AAAA game? What better advertisement for their services could there be than the billions of Star Citizens who will be living in the 'verse 24/7, they'll save so much money on marketing that it'll pay for itself! So that's probably the dumbest answer from anyone outside CIG.


Realistically, Star Citizen won't need very many servers at all, because backers are so used to not playing Star Citizen and/or having a slow, janky experience when they do that none of them will fuss too much about not being able to log in. It's AN ALPHA, it's supposed to not work properly (or at all), and only a fool would expect otherwise. It's more important for CIG to spend the money on things that really matter, like executive salaries and bonuses and trips and mocap sessions and keeping investors happy than it is to invest in servers.

Sankis posted:

remember when they were claiming this was a game you'd be able to run your own dedicated servers for and mod

chadbear posted:

You make it sound as if they were not still selling manuals for modders

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/Add-Ons/Engineering-Manual-For-Modders-Digital



It's still in stock too

quote:

There is something that Cloud Imperium don't do, and Tony Zurovec definitely doesn't do.. that is repeat information that has been given before and is on record.

The systems for tracking bounties, and the law system in general, was outlined by TZ at a previous CitizenCon. He gave indications of the types of security systems they would use, like facial recognition scanners at points of entry and hand-held facial scanners, and engine signature tracking. You will also have access to security databases if appropriate.

I agree that there is one major system they stopped giving information about years ago - The Spectrum. The Spectrum is the source for all information, there are to be regular news programs like Empire Report, Showdown and Plain Truth (they exist currently as lore posts on the RSI website) where players can get up to date information about what is going on where, and the ARK Repository which produces the star map (the current in-game star map is called Skyline and it is a portable cut-down version of the ARK Star Map), where information trading and flow is disseminated to anyone with a mobiGlas or console. Players and AI can trade information to the ARK Repository as well as stream to The Spectrum - it's what the Reliant MAKO News Van was made for, but there will be other means.

It is planned that The Spectrum will be multi-platform, you'll be able to use it while not actually playing the game - on mobile devices for example and it will be accessible via the RSI website. The Galactapedia isn't just for the website, it is to be integrated into the ARK Repository so that you can access that information in the game. If you're a Dr Who fan you might be very happy.

The probable reason for not discussing The Spectrum and it's capabilities is because... you'll see it first in Squadron 42, it will be one of your sources regarding the story of what is going on in the game universe, and why. You can Google for Squadron 42 leaks and see some of the stuff that will be on The Spectrum.

There is also the TDD, they are in the game but not functioning, they will also carry up to date information about each star system such as commodity prices and threat levels.

People may say the information is old and out of date, promises they don't keep, they may even say it flat out isn't true - but it is not the case they that haven't spoken about those things.

Mirificus posted:

Popete posted:

I'm fairly convinced Tony Z doesn't even work at CIG anymore.

JugbandDude posted:

He says “On record” like any of these devs actually stick to what they say

quote:

Second - the star systems being developed for Squadron 42 can be released to the PU after Squadron 42 E1 is no longer kept under wraps. Best guess by those of us following SQ42 E1 closely is around 10 or 12 star systems for Squadron 42, even Pyro is bigger than Stanton - that will be a massive expansion of the play space

quote:

There is something that Cloud Imperium don't do, and Tony Zurovec definitely doesn't do.. that is repeat information that has been given before and is on record.

quote:

We are very fortunate to have someone of Tony Zurovec's vision and experience. If Tony has a weak point I'd say that it is that he doesn't take into account, or doesn't have the time to take into account, that not everyone might be fully up to speed with all the output from Cloud Imperium.

To understand what Tony is talking about when he talks of his plans regarding creating this 'Living Breathing Universe' you have to remember how the game is placed on the game servers. There are rules which we have to remember because they are unavoidable and unbreakable.

These are the rules:
Virtual NPC's and Instantiated NPC's can only 'live' in server RAM on the Live Game servers - without which they would simply 'stop' as static data on a hard drive (as they do now), you wouldn't see them in the game if they aren't loaded into Dedicated Game Server - Random Access Memory. No record of them could be sent to the persistence database.

Quanta live their 'lives' in the RAM of the servers running the Quantum simulation because not all the games locations will be loaded into RAM on Live DGS servers all the time.

The theory:
Both the Live Game and Quantum simulation are updated via the persistence database. When a Quanta's location in the game universe is placed on a Live Game server, in a place where either a player or NPC would expect to see them, they are logged out of the Quantum simulation and in to the Live game and loaded into RAM.

When that location where the NPC is in the Live Game is removed from a server the NPC is logged back into the Quantum simulation to carry on it's life, all the information about that NPC was sent to the persistence databases and when that NPC goes back to the Quantum simulation the information from the persistence database is used to update that NPC on the Quantum simulation.

In practise:
There is a pirate base called Spider - one of the perks of subscribing was to name and give a back-story to a pirate character on Spider, but that ceased a while ago because there were so many who qualified to do it.

If no player is near Spider then Spider is not loaded onto any game server, there is nowhere for them to put NPC's either 'real' or virtual there are no probability volumes for them to encounter. That is what the Quantum simulation is for. If a player is near Spider but not in a place where they could see NPC's, ie Spider is loaded onto a Live Game server - then it is populated by virtual NPC's which came from the Quantum simulation, they interact with the Live Game systems like probability volumes, shops and ATC. Once the player is somewhere they can see an NPC that virtual NPC is instantiated, they are now 'real'. When the player leaves so that he no longers sees any NPC's, the instantiated NPC's go back to being virtual NPC's, and if the server with Spider on it spins down, the NPC's go back to the part of the Quantum simulation where Spider is - to continue their lives until the next time a Live Game server spins up with Spider on it.


Laying it out:

There are the Quanta which are AI entities that exist in a virtual simulation real time copy of the Live Game universe. They have their names and back-story, they have personality traits, faction affiliations and goals. They have a history log of all the things they have done and places they've been... basically they live out a life in a virtual copy of the game universe that runs in parallel with the Live Game universe.

Then there are virtual NPC's, they only exist in the Live Game universe but they aren't physicalised unless a player is in their vicinity to encounter them. You'll see them show up on long range scanners for example, they do all the same things the Quanta do except now they are in the Live Game on a spun up server's RAM.

Instantiated NPC's are those you can see and physically react to or interact with, again they have all the same traits as Quanta and virtual NPC's but they also have an appearance (DNA somewhat randomly chosen just like in the character creator), dress style and where appropriate a vehicle etc.

The key thing to remember is that Quanta can become virtual NPC's in the Live Game, and virtual NPC's can become instantiated as 'real' NPC's, then back again through the same process in reverse back to Quanta. They still retain all the information, personal belongings and history log because of the persistence database.

If you remember TZ talks about a Quanta character (Draygon?) who is spawned into the game as a virtual NPC when a virtual NPC is in a place to encounter him. As a virtual NPC he goes to the space station bar where he would be instantiated if a player was there to see him, he then leaves the bar and goes back to being a virtual NPC (if he was instantiated) and then he's sent back to being a Quanta running on the Quantum simulation. If you take the bounty on Draygon, then when you are in a location where you could possibly encounter him (ie that location exists on a Live DGS server) then Draygon is brought back from the Quantum simulation to the Live game.

If you are in a location (ie a Live DGS server has spun up that location) where you would meet an Quanta NPC character again it will be the same character.. and they will remember you... because that Quantum simulation is a real time virtual copy of the real game universe taking it's information from the real time persistence database. You could call it a shadow universe which is much cheaper to run millions of NPC's on because they aren't physicalised, there are no game assets taking up RAM in that simulation, and they don't use the live game facilities like ATC.

If NPC's were created 'as required' and then burned, there would be no need for the Quantum simulation at all.

If there was no such thing as Server Meshing, ie all the game locations were running on Live servers all the time then there would be no need for a Quantum simulation, which is why there is no more information to be had about the Quantum simulation until Server Meshing goes into the game. We've been told what it is, what it does and why it needs to be there.

The Quantum simulation provides population persistence of 'permanent characters' without the overhead of placing them in the game permanently because once they are streamed out of DGS RAM and off the hard drive when a server spins down, they would be gone (paused) without the persistence database. None of the NPC's lives are paused or deleted just because there are no players around to see them or simply because no server has spun up with their location on it. They are all living their eventful lives in the RAM of the servers running the Quantum simulation until they are called back to the Live Game environment.

I've read people saying that other games have populations of 'good' NPC's, but I don't know of any game where they would run a virtual parallel simulation of that game in real time just so that the players could encounter an endless number of ever evolving NPC's with whom they can have a permanent history any time they encounter them.

I'm not a fanboy of anyone, but to me the Quantum simulation is an almost genius solution to the problems that spinning up and spinning down game servers brings to the 'life' of the characters the players would encounter in this Living Breathing Universe. For that we should thank the team involved in giving it to us. So yeah, let's see him, and them, on an SC Live.

Monocle Cat posted:

If there was no such thing as Server Meshing

Randalor posted:

... I smell burnt toast after reading that. Is my nose supposed to be bleeding?