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Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story
Since the right is all in on "trans people have mental illness" this ties in nicely to their favorite thing to say when there's a mass shooting, "It's not a gun problem, it's a mental illness problem." Of course, usually they say that and then do absolutely nothing about mental illness, but this time it gives them the perfect fig leaf to try and do something. "We're trying to stop mass shootings and grooming of children by outlawing trans health care!"

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mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952





She's a pro-click for trans rights issues, some of her videos are deeply insightful. She also has good opinions about Star Trek if you swing that way.

HelloSailorSign
Jan 27, 2011

C2C - 2.0 posted:

Pretty certain I saw someone on Twitter repost a tweet by MTG praising Stahl and 60 Minutes. Could be MTG's too fuckin' dumb to realize she's participating in a hit piece, but the 60 Minutes presser makes it sound like it's gonna' be some "Profile in Courage"-type garbage.

Note that CNN got a new CEO (Chris Licht) early 2022 who said:

"Sadly too many people have lost trust in the news media. I think we can be a beacon in regaining that trust by being an organization that exemplifies the best characteristics in journalism: fearlessly speaking truth to power, challenging the status quo, questioning ‘group-think’ and educating viewers and readers with straightforward facts and insightful commentary, while always being respectful of differing viewpoints. First and foremost, we should, and we will be advocates for truth."

Which, I dunno about you, but when I hear someone say that I generally don't think they're advocating for anything but, "how can we listen to the Normal Americans in This Totally Normal American Restaurant in Bumfuck Ohio???"

But also several of the journalists let go after he took over were ones that either had (rightly) criticized how the media has been covering things or had said mean things about Trump, giving the impression that the previous comment was the PC way of saying, "we're taking CNN to the right."

Zamujasa
Oct 27, 2010



Bread Liar
I remember when people would jokingly refer to CNN as the "Communist" News Network :rolleyes:

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

Twelve by Pies posted:

Since the right is all in on "trans people have mental illness" this ties in nicely to their favorite thing to say when there's a mass shooting, "It's not a gun problem, it's a mental illness problem." Of course, usually they say that and then do absolutely nothing about mental illness, but this time it gives them the perfect fig leaf to try and do something. "We're trying to stop mass shootings and grooming of children by outlawing trans health care!"

And not for nothing but for a lot of them "mental health treatment" means "going to church and finding Christ". Or things like whatever those homsexuality "cure" treatments were called. There's also a lot of "suck it up snowflake" thinking where mental illness isn't even real and it just a thing where people whine too much and won't suck it up.

We can see a glimpse into how they think about mental illness by listening to some of the vile poo poo they say about Fetterman.

Zamujasa posted:

I remember when people would jokingly refer to CNN as the "Communist" News Network :rolleyes:

They still do. But now it's a lot more 'Fake News CNN'

Crunch Buttsteak
Feb 26, 2007

You think reality is a circle of salt around my brain keeping witches out?

BiggerBoat posted:

And not for nothing but for a lot of them "mental health treatment" means "going to church and finding Christ". Or things like whatever those homsexuality "cure" treatments were called. There's also a lot of "suck it up snowflake" thinking where mental illness isn't even real and it just a thing where people whine too much and won't suck it up.

We can see a glimpse into how they think about mental illness by listening to some of the vile poo poo they say about Fetterman.

Yeah, when conservatives try to say "oh, we care about children, we just think they should get the real help they need", they 100% mean sending them to conversion therapy. Like, the whole "the schools are transing our kids!" panic is largely fueled by parental desire to be able to "fix" their children if they end up queer in any way; a child being able to be queer "in secret" is terrifying to them. It's not about a child being healthy or happy, it's just about quashing the "problem".

Crunch Buttsteak fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Apr 3, 2023

OgNar
Oct 26, 2002

They tapdance not, neither do they fart
President Fraud is the best slip ever

https://twitter.com/EdKrassen/status/1642951158531538946

Angry_Ed
Mar 30, 2010




Grimey Drawer

Fraudian Slip :v:

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.
Pretty amazing that the entire RWM sphere already knows that Trump is innocent of all the charges that have not even been made public yet. I mean I expect nothing less but listening to them I keep being reminded of an exchange in Clint Eastwood's UNforgiven when one character tells someone "you just shot an innocent man".

"Innocent of what?"

BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Apr 3, 2023

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN😬

OgNar posted:

They are doing it in protest of a judge that got heckled because he is a douchebag.

This is what I found about him.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/03/trump-judge-kyle-duncan-stanford-law-scotus-audition.html

"Recall that this man made his way to the bench by being a professional bully. Before his elevation to the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in 2018, Duncan tried to revoke gay parents’ rights over their adopted children, defended same-sex marriage bans, and fought against the rights of transgender schoolchildren. He condemned the constitutional right to same-sex marriage as a “license” to “persecute churches” and an “abject failure,” warning that it “imperils civic peace.”"

I'm getting the feeling that Stanford is capitulating to pressure from chudges so they don't get heckled in the future.
https://twitter.com/aaronsibarium/status/1642961173153718290?t=_pFNa8j3A7dYTIhy865XIA&s=19

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.
from the Jan 5th thread

Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:

Trump basically admitted to taking classified documents with the intent to sell them back to the U.S. (or at least profit from them in some way) in an interview with Hannity.

Specifically, he cites that "Nixon got $18 million" from the federal government for his documents and the Watergate tapes.

I love Hannity desperately trying to shift the conversation once he realizes that he set Trump up to deny the whole thing and he is just diving in to admit it instead.

https://twitter.com/NoLieWithBTC/status/1642869119748911104

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Panfilo posted:

I'm getting the feeling that Stanford is capitulating to pressure from chudges so they don't get heckled in the future.
https://twitter.com/aaronsibarium/status/1642961173153718290?t=_pFNa8j3A7dYTIhy865XIA&s=19

There's no real reason to accept this source's framing of the issue in that manner- they start the next tweet by practically acknowledging there's no indication of anything concrete in the university statement.

ErIog
Jul 11, 2001

:nsacloud:

BiggerBoat posted:

from the Jan 5th thread

He’s so full of poo poo. You can see it on his face when Hannity calls his bluff on the tape thing. His face says: "You rear end in a top hat, why would you ask for the tape?" It's the same face my CHUD stepmom makes when I call her bluff on this kind of poo poo. I bet he loving hates Hannity now, but Trump has so few people willing to let him on their shows that he is forced to play ball.

Truth is he doesn't have any tape of the raid. He doesn't run those systems. Secret service does. FBI likely took all the tapes as evidence, including the ones showing the raid itself. He considers them his own property so has likely requested them back and has gotten told to pound sand. This is why his interpretation is that those tapes would somehow be damaging to the FBI.

He can't conceive that he broke multiple federal laws and the evidence is on the tapes, and so it must be a conspiracy against him that implicates the FBI.

Also, he's clearly loving entirely wrong on the records act. That was loving passed to prevent what happened with Nixon. It's very clear. Everything goes to National Archives first. Every other provision about control is AFTER the part where National Archives takes posession and presumes the government has posession. He has no right to any of it. None. Open and loving shut. It's all POTUS work product owned by the executive branch, and that's why his stupid loving executive privilege defense is so stupid. He's raising executive privilege against the executive branch itself. That's not a thing.

He's the biggest loving bitch-made whiner to have ever been president. It's stunning. He had the most politically powerful office in the world such that he could have done nothing for the rest of his life but get paid for speeches and legal influence peddling. Instead he wants to spend time litigating this ticky-tack poo poo about documents. Baron's tell-all book is going to be a thing for the ages.

ErIog fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Apr 4, 2023

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN😬
Conservatives are having a normal one today :allears:
https://twitter.com/TRHLofficial/status/1643337628786343942?t=MCdlLt9_IXsdQK-s0D-AhQ&s=19

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

Today has entirely been the apex of "this is a political witch hunt and Trump is innocent even though we haven't heard the charges or any of the evidence and now that it's unsealed and we have read the charges this is political witch hunt and he's still totally innocent only NOW it's a shameful day for America and every real patriot needs to be afraid (again/some more) because ___________". They're suddenly quite concerned about law enforcement overrreach.

They've really circled the wagons here and, even though I expected as much, they've actually exceeded my expectations with the boot licking, hypocrisy and outright lies and bullshit.

For one thing, Bragg - who is now the new Fauci/Mueller/Comey - didn't indict Trump. A Grand Jury did. Hannity and the bunch act like Bragg can wave a magic wand and get an indictment because NYC. I heard one radio host hand wave Trump taking the 5th "for some reason and OK then" when Trump himself has said only guilty people take the 5th. They're also framing it as punishment for paying hush money when the charges are FRAUD, and you'd think that would ring a few bells for these people but not in this case.

I need to make an effort post about Mark Kaye, Dan Bongino and maybe update the OP but I'm feeling lazy. For the most part, the RWM radio shows I subject myself to are just bascially having a contest to see who can cram the most mentions of "Chicago, Socialist, Deep State, Laptop, Constitution, New York, WItch Hunt, Freedom, Soros, liberals, democrat party, statute of limitations" and anything else you can toss into a word blender and make a sentence out of it.

It's Chat GPT with conservative buzzwords and talking points, it sucked and it's exactly what you picture and in your suppositions and imagination. They threw so much poo poo at me in the 15 or 30 minutes i listened to that I could hardly keep up.

They also decried the "protest zones" in NYC as anti free speech, conveniently forgetting the "free speech zones" that George W. put in place during the Iraq War, the Florida law outlawing protestors blocking traffic and whatnot. They memory hole a lot of the Bush era. And they're now gravely concerned about wasteful military spending.

One guest called this administration's " the worst foreign policy in US history" and I like to poo poo. Vietnam? Iraq? Iran Contra? It was just more and more "be afraid of this poo poo all the time" only now it's China, Mexican fentanyl mules and (to some extent) Russia and Putin.

Trump's going to give a speech tonight and brag about his ratings.

BiggerBoat fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Apr 5, 2023

Captain_Maclaine
Sep 30, 2001

BiggerBoat posted:

They also decried the "protest zones" in NYC as anti free speech, conveniently forgetting the "free speech zones" that George W. put in place during the Iraq War, the Florida law outlawing protestors blocking traffic and whatnot. They memory hole a lot of the Bush era. And they're now gravely concerned about wasteful military spending.

The who era? All I remember is Clinton gave chemical weapons to Iraq and was the worst president ever and then Obama did 9/11 and declared mission accomplished on that aircraft carrier and was the worst president ever.

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

Captain_Maclaine posted:

The who era? All I remember is Clinton gave chemical weapons to Iraq and was the worst president ever and then Obama did 9/11 and declared mission accomplished on that aircraft carrier and was the worst president ever.

That's right. Holy poo poo, I forgot Obama's disastrous response to Katrina and how he caused the 2008 housing crash when he did a Kenyan socialism and took everyone's guns.

One thing I've noticed over the decade or so since I started this thread and following this poo poo is that one way RWM types and what they do have really upped their game is SPEED. Just the sheer bombardment of words, falsehoods, buzzwords and retroactive history done in a way that you don't even know where to start with it and almost forget the first thing they said. Shapiro and his ilk use it in debate tactics a lot. Trump does it. They DARE you to keep up but you can't. There aren't enough hours in the day for most people.

But I only listen to this poo poo for maybe 15 or 20 minutes a day and it's CONSTANT. Just a total flood of negative connotations. And it's pretty effective. They'll work in words like "Chicago", "Pelosi", "Soros", "globalist", "radical", "patorriot" and "San Francisco" (just to name a few) into every god damned thing they talk about, no matter the topic. Every sentence. It's very much like advertising where just through sheer repetition of certain words, a certain (negative) association takes place. Nouns almost become adjectives and assume a certain level of self explanation.

One of the best examples is Hannity always referring to "the great free state of Florida". He never just says "Florida"

Florida sucks. I live here.

Angry_Ed
Mar 30, 2010




Grimey Drawer

BiggerBoat posted:



One of the best examples is Hannity always referring to "the great free state of Florida". He never just says "Florida"


Free as long as you don't say gay. Or try to accurately report COVID-19 deaths.

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?



Did we time travel back to 2015 again

https://twitter.com/jacobkschneider/status/1643410202719399941?s=20

BiggerBoat
Sep 26, 2007

Don't you tell me my business again.

Angry_Ed posted:

Free as long as you don't say gay. Or try to accurately report COVID-19 deaths.

Or being able to afford to live. It's become one of the most unaffordable places to live in the US but, hey look. There's SF and NYC being all liberal and expensive.

Mercury_Storm
Jun 12, 2003

*chomp chomp chomp*
Behind the bastards did a two parter on Fox News and them being sued by Dominion and all the content that has flowed out of that, and holy poo poo it's incredible. We have Tucker Carlson saying, on one hand (regarding 'stolen votes): 'wow this is some crazy poo poo and is really irresponsible', and on the other hand expecting other hosts at Fox to parrot the bullshit because Newsmax would beat them out somehow if they didn't. The lawsuit findings also deliver proof that Rupert Murdoch was in on it and absolutely knew what was going on, yet did nothing of substance to stop it short of make some noise near Jan 6th.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/part-one-inside-fox-news-with-110514045/

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/part-two-inside-fox-news-with-110742932/

Lemniscate Blue
Apr 21, 2006

Here we go again.

BiggerBoat posted:

For one thing, Bragg - who is now the new Fauci/Mueller/Comey - didn't indict Trump. A Grand Jury did. Hannity and the bunch act like Bragg can wave a magic wand and get an indictment because NYC. I heard one radio host hand wave Trump taking the 5th "for some reason and OK then" when Trump himself has said only guilty people take the 5th. They're also framing it as punishment for paying hush money when the charges are FRAUD, and you'd think that would ring a few bells for these people but not in this case.

To be fair, this isn't too far off from the truth. There's an oft-quoted bit of snark from some judge or lawyer from years ago that "a competent prosecutor could get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich."

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010

Mercury_Storm posted:

Behind the bastards did a two parter on Fox News and them being sued by Dominion and all the content that has flowed out of that, and holy poo poo it's incredible. We have Tucker Carlson saying, on one hand (regarding 'stolen votes): 'wow this is some crazy poo poo and is really irresponsible', and on the other hand expecting other hosts at Fox to parrot the bullshit because Newsmax would beat them out somehow if they didn't. The lawsuit findings also deliver proof that Rupert Murdoch was in on it and absolutely knew what was going on, yet did nothing of substance to stop it short of make some noise near Jan 6th.

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/part-one-inside-fox-news-with-110514045/

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/105-behind-the-bastards-29236323/episode/part-two-inside-fox-news-with-110742932/

One of the more interesting things is that Sydney Powell’s source for a lot of her claims on Fox was an “internally decapitated ghost” which they knew about and they just made crazy signs behind her back and put her on the air and stated her claims as factual.

If you want to get a glimpse of how bad things could have gotten, Trump came close to appointing Powell as a special prosecutor to investigate election fraud claims with subpoena power and FBI investigators. Someone who thought a ghost told them the dominion machines flipped votes for Biden and would go on air and just make poo poo up.

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story

BiggerBoat posted:

For one thing, Bragg - who is now the new Fauci/Mueller/Comey - didn't indict Trump. A Grand Jury did. Hannity and the bunch act like Bragg can wave a magic wand and get an indictment because NYC.

Hannity today said something like "The worst place to be on trial in the US if you're a Republican is NYC. The second worst place is DC. The third worst place is Fulton County."

Speaking of Hannity, something he said today stuck out to me. Rather, two things he said. The first was his defense of Trump against the charges, where he mentioned that "Cohen paid Stormy Daniels out of his own personal funds. Trump didn't tell him to do it. Nor did Cohen expect to be reimbursed by Trump for the payment. It was done of his own free will."

Then later, he called Bragg a "Soros funded prosecutor" and mentioned that recently Soros actually spoke up and said "I never funded that DA, so that's a lie." Hannity went on to say "But Soros paid this organization, and that organization then donated money to Bragg."

This is a pretty clear contradiction. If Soros paying an organization to pay a prosecutor means it's still Soros funded, then Trump paying Cohen to pay Stormy Daniels means it's still Trump's payment. You can't have it both ways. Either Bragg isn't Soros funded, or Trump is guilty.

And I know right wingers don't care about being hypocrites, that they see it as a privilege they get to have, but I'm just talking about me, as a person, hearing both these statements and having the critical thinking skills to go "Wait a second, but it's the same situation." No wonder conservatives hate education and critical thinking.

PhazonLink
Jul 17, 2010
i dont even know where Fulton County is and I'm a borke brain that reads and posts in these threads for the last several years. I wonder if Han or Donnie even remembers finer details of their propaganda poo poo.

Also lol at Han and other fox talking heads still living and playing in the NYC tristate area even though it the worse place to be an R.

Killer robot
Sep 6, 2010

I was having the most wonderful dream. I think you were in it!
Pillbug

Twelve by Pies posted:

And I know right wingers don't care about being hypocrites, that they see it as a privilege they get to have, but I'm just talking about me, as a person, hearing both these statements and having the critical thinking skills to go "Wait a second, but it's the same situation." No wonder conservatives hate education and critical thinking.

Yeah, no one points out right-wing hypocrisy expecting them to melt down like Ace Attorney villains caught in a lie, but realizing it (or having it pointed out) is an early step for most people on the from "I don't agree with all conservative principles but they make some valid points worth hearing" to "Even when they talk sense they're probably working an angle and you can find better people saying the same thing"

PT6A
Jan 5, 2006

Public school teachers are callous dictators who won't lift a finger to stop children from peeing in my plane

The child of [his] counsellor? Is that what they're going with?

I think that dude committed an unspeakable crime, but they're referring to the daughter of the "senior pastor" of the school/religious group, not a loving counsellor.

Twelve by Pies
May 4, 2012

Again a very likpatous story

PhazonLink posted:

i dont even know where Fulton County is and I'm a borke brain that reads and posts in these threads for the last several years. I wonder if Han or Donnie even remembers finer details of their propaganda poo poo.

I did a quick google and it's the county in Georgia where Atlanta is located, it's where Trump may be charged with the crime he committed in 2020 where he told the guy on the phone to "find me some votes."

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN😬
We live in a society
https://twitter.com/oneunderscore__/status/1643299195938299909?t=UxMzTQjlYpFfNZCSu9WdRw&s=19

DarklyDreaming
Apr 4, 2009

Fun scary

Twelve by Pies posted:

I did a quick google and it's the county in Georgia where Atlanta is located, it's where Trump may be charged with the crime he committed in 2020 where he told the guy on the phone to "find me some votes."

Also back in 2004 their sheriff had to step down because the governor felt she was deliberately refusing to hire white men. Which sounds like the exact poo poo right-wing media loves to hear about

Mercury_Storm
Jun 12, 2003

*chomp chomp chomp*

Murgos posted:

One of the more interesting things is that Sydney Powell’s source for a lot of her claims on Fox was an “internally decapitated ghost” which they knew about and they just made crazy signs behind her back and put her on the air and stated her claims as factual.

If you want to get a glimpse of how bad things could have gotten, Trump came close to appointing Powell as a special prosecutor to investigate election fraud claims with subpoena power and FBI investigators. Someone who thought a ghost told them the dominion machines flipped votes for Biden and would go on air and just make poo poo up.

Yeah this all reminds me of the Alex Jones Sandy Hook trial where it's revealed that all the Sandy hook conspiracies were based on the clear bullshit that Wolfgang Halbig was making up too. They all knew the source material was bullshit, but sucked it down and spewed it back up anyways.

Weatherman
Jul 30, 2003

WARBLEKLONK

Panfilo posted:

We live in a society

Well, I don't know about that.

Panfilo
Aug 27, 2011

EXISTENCE IS PAIN😬
Conservatives suddenly care about constitutional rights. Keep in mind this crazy lady is regularly frothing at the mouth to have the Jackboots of the state arrest people for "Communism" but yeah it's so important to respect the sanctity of the constitution right?
https://twitter.com/TRHLofficial/status/1643416419688751104?t=6ROlmNiBDalvaIsvJ6zvVw&s=19

ErIog
Jul 11, 2001

:nsacloud:

Lemniscate Blue posted:

To be fair, this isn't too far off from the truth. There's an oft-quoted bit of snark from some judge or lawyer from years ago that "a competent prosecutor could get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich."

Prosecutors don't need grand juries to approve indictments. He could have indicted Trump without the grand jury. Indicting people is his job. The function of a grand jury is mostly investigative, and a decision by a grand jury to indict or not isn't binding.

Bragg had the grand jury vote on the indictment for political purposes to cover his rear end. It's a pretty thin covering, but now he gets to say that he let the grand jury decide it rather than make the decision himself.

The grand jury poo poo is stupid and part of how Trump is being treated with kid gloves due to his political position. If he broke laws he should just be indicted, and the various prosecutors should stop delaying things unnecessarily by loving around with these grand juries.

They're doing it to make the process seem less partisan, but what it actually makes it look like when they spend so much time with a grand jury is like they're trying to manufacture an indictment out of whole cloth.

In all the potential criminal cases against Trump the evidence is pretty clear. There's paper trails they already have or they have multiple people willing to testify against him. They should just indict and move forward.

Prosecutors are basically cowards, though, and anything going to trial in the first place is seen as a loss. This is why the vast majority of criminal cases are resolved with guilty pleas. They're scared of indicting Trump and then a jury finding him not guilty.

ErIog fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Apr 5, 2023

Skex
Feb 22, 2012

The great thing about the thousands of slaughtered Palestinian children is that they can't pull away when you fondle them or sniff their hair.

That's a Biden success story.

ErIog posted:

Prosecutors are basically cowards, though, and anything going to trial in the first place is seen as a loss. This is why the vast majority of criminal cases are resolved with guilty pleas. They're scared of indicting Trump and then a jury finding him not guilty.

This is not an unreasonable fear in this case. Go listen to Maddow's Ultra podcast about the last time we had to deal with a major Fascist movement in the United States. The Fash did the same loving thing the right is doing now, the only difference is that the lines weren't quite as partisan.

The Nazis were running a propaganda campaign out of congress, enabled by their "America First" quislings and sympathizers using tax payer funded postage. They blew up multiple ammunition factories and were planning to violently overthrow the government. These weren't idle threats, they had stolen military weapons and had armed forces ready to move when the Justice Department were finally convinced to move on them they were acquitted at trial, well the foot soldiers were, the leaders managed to turn the trial into such a circus with the help of their allies in Congress to delay things until the judge hearing the trial died from a heart attack and the DOJ threw in the towel, then of course after the Nazis were defeated all of the evidence came out but of course we "moved on for the good of the country"

Hell I'm apprehensive about this trial and I fully want Trump's rear end in prison.

The amusing thing to me is the Republicans claiming that prosecuting Trump is evidence of a 2 tier justice system when the reality is that not prosecuting him because he's a former President would literally create another tier to our justice system.

Of course we totally have a 2 tier justice system, one for the poor which tends to railroad the innocent and the one for the rich and powerful that tends to let the worst crooks off with little to no consequences. Trump is going through the second.

Imagine if a defendant in that first system threatened the judge, DA and their families, could you imagine the judge gently admonishing them to stop them releasing them on their own recognizance? No because that poo poo wouldn't happen and woe to the regular person trying to pull that poo poo they'd spend the rest of their time waiting for the trial in jail.

But not Trump he just flies home and goes right back to it. I for one am getting really loving tired of these judges white gloving these Nazi fuckers.

But I digress, all it would take is one CHUD making it through the selection process and we're looking at a hung jury. Honestly we'd be so much better if the "Deep State" were real and just dropped some polonium in his ice-cream and blamed Putin for it. Oh and even if the jury does the right thing it wouldn't prevent Trump from running again and he's probably just looking at a fine anyway. But the MAGAts are acting like it's a capital case that's going to put him on death row.

Murgos
Oct 21, 2010

ErIog posted:

Prosecutors don't need grand juries to approve indictments. He could have indicted Trump without the grand jury. Indicting people is his job. The function of a grand jury is mostly investigative, and a decision by a grand jury to indict or not isn't binding.

Bragg had the grand jury vote on the indictment for political purposes to cover his rear end. It's a pretty thin covering, but now he gets to say that he let the grand jury decide it rather than make the decision himself.

The grand jury poo poo is stupid and part of how Trump is being treated with kid gloves due to his political position. If he broke laws he should just be indicted, and the various prosecutors should stop delaying things unnecessarily by loving around with these grand juries.

They're doing it to make the process seem less partisan, but what it actually makes it look like when they spend so much time with a grand jury is like they're trying to manufacture an indictment out of whole cloth.

In all the potential criminal cases against Trump the evidence is pretty clear. There's paper trails they already have or they have multiple people willing to testify against him. They should just indict and move forward.

Prosecutors are basically cowards, though, and anything going to trial in the first place is seen as a loss. This is why the vast majority of criminal cases are resolved with guilty pleas. They're scared of indicting Trump and then a jury finding him not guilty.

You are factually incorrect.

Edit: In NY as well as many other states and federally an indictment can only come from a grand jury.

Murgos fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Apr 6, 2023

Uglycat
Dec 4, 2000
MORE INDISPUTABLE PROOF I AM BAD AT POSTING
---------------->

Skex posted:

Oh and even if the jury does the right thing it wouldn't prevent Trump from running again and he's probably just looking at a fine anyway. But the MAGAts are acting like it's a capital case that's going to put him on death row.

Is there any possibility, after all four trials end in conviction and a great deal of information is entered into public evidence, that sufficient facts will be established to charge T with a federal crime, one whose consequences preclude his ability to run for public office?

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

Skex posted:

This is not an unreasonable fear in this case. Go listen to Maddow's Ultra podcast about the last time we had to deal with a major Fascist movement in the United States. The Fash did the same loving thing the right is doing now, the only difference is that the lines weren't quite as partisan.

The Nazis were running a propaganda campaign out of congress, enabled by their "America First" quislings and sympathizers using tax payer funded postage. They blew up multiple ammunition factories and were planning to violently overthrow the government. These weren't idle threats, they had stolen military weapons and had armed forces ready to move when the Justice Department were finally convinced to move on them they were acquitted at trial, well the foot soldiers were, the leaders managed to turn the trial into such a circus with the help of their allies in Congress to delay things until the judge hearing the trial died from a heart attack and the DOJ threw in the towel, then of course after the Nazis were defeated all of the evidence came out but of course we "moved on for the good of the country"

Hell I'm apprehensive about this trial and I fully want Trump's rear end in prison.

The amusing thing to me is the Republicans claiming that prosecuting Trump is evidence of a 2 tier justice system when the reality is that not prosecuting him because he's a former President would literally create another tier to our justice system.

Of course we totally have a 2 tier justice system, one for the poor which tends to railroad the innocent and the one for the rich and powerful that tends to let the worst crooks off with little to no consequences. Trump is going through the second.

Imagine if a defendant in that first system threatened the judge, DA and their families, could you imagine the judge gently admonishing them to stop them releasing them on their own recognizance? No because that poo poo wouldn't happen and woe to the regular person trying to pull that poo poo they'd spend the rest of their time waiting for the trial in jail.

But not Trump he just flies home and goes right back to it. I for one am getting really loving tired of these judges white gloving these Nazi fuckers.

But I digress, all it would take is one CHUD making it through the selection process and we're looking at a hung jury. Honestly we'd be so much better if the "Deep State" were real and just dropped some polonium in his ice-cream and blamed Putin for it. Oh and even if the jury does the right thing it wouldn't prevent Trump from running again and he's probably just looking at a fine anyway. But the MAGAts are acting like it's a capital case that's going to put him on death row.

Seconding Ultra as a pro-listen. That episode where she goes over what an absolute clownshow disaster the one major trial the DOJ managed to bring against the Fash turned into was insane. Primarily because they pulled what would become the Steve Bannon playbook and flooded the zone with poo poo to the point where it all became absurdist comedy that nobody could get any traction on, like how they had an entire city bus worth of defendants and they all decided to answer the judge's questions at the same time and say different things so it was just a cocophony of noise, and how some of them were released on day-programs to work their 9-to-5 jobs between trial days and some of them used the opening to just disappear, and how they got multiple prosecutors thrown off the case because their credibility was successfully attacked Trump-style, and the fact that it ended in a mistrial because the judge literally had a heart attack and died because of the stress of how out of control he'd let everything get.

If you want a preview of how the Trump trial(s) will go, listen to Episode 6: Bedlam, because history loves to repeat and I can easily see Trump's clown car of wacky lawyers doing similar poo poo to his prosecutors.

nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Apr 6, 2023

Uglycat
Dec 4, 2000
MORE INDISPUTABLE PROOF I AM BAD AT POSTING
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I honestly think trumps prospects for holding future office are shot now.

First, there's a noticeable lack of street level support for the wet baby.
Then, he's clearly taking a campaign strategy that entails painting the prosecutors and judges as do state agents deserving of execution. This strategy might work against a political opponent, but doing it against a judge and prosecutor in an actual case is foolish. He's going to catch contempt charges and face multiple gag orders much sooner than he'll see a conviction. If he wants to run while being prosecuted, he needs to ignore the courts beyond the absolute minimum, and distract from it by, i don't know, doing stuff unrelated to it.

They have him dead to rights, but his defense strategy isnt a legal strategy. He wants to delay, distract and confound, win the presidency, then order it all to go away (whole punishing all who dared). Thats a hell of a needle to thread, and i dont see contempt serving him.

And i cant imagine him not doing it.

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Murgos
Oct 21, 2010

Uglycat posted:

Is there any possibility, after all four trials end in conviction and a great deal of information is entered into public evidence, that sufficient facts will be established to charge T with a federal crime, one whose consequences preclude his ability to run for public office?

The constitution provides one method to exclude someone who is otherwise eligible from running for president.

“14th Amendment” posted:

Section 3.

No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

So, yeah, there’s a possibility. Either he himself gets charged with sedition or insurrection or his “aid or comfort” to the proud boys and oath keepers and etc… who are convicted of sedition and a court finds him ineligible to be on the ballot.

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