(Thread IKs:
skooma512)
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PostNouveau posted:Maybe if they can get the charge times down to like 30-60 minutes DCFC can do that, but you're pulling down 50kw+ while doing it, which is why the stations aren't absolutely everywhere a DCFC charging facility with a gas station's worth of connectors would compare unfavorably with a steel mill in terms of power cost; EVs aren't the solution atelier morgan has issued a correction as of 19:57 on Apr 8, 2023 |
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Apr 8, 2023 19:49
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atelier morgan posted:DCFC can do that, but you're pulling down 50kw+ while doing it, which is why the stations aren't absolutely everywhere Good lord. It certainly sounds like we've steered ourselves into a cul-de-sac then.
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Apr 8, 2023 20:01
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EVs are what is happening. I don’t see it being turned around with the sunk costs that are being incurred.
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Apr 8, 2023 20:18
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EVs are cool bc they're going to corral us into big car debt to buy them (mandatory)
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Apr 8, 2023 20:23
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Bar Ran Dun posted:EVs are what is happening. I don’t see it being turned around with the sunk costs that are being incurred. ev’s aren’t gonna happen lol, at best you goons in this thread will be discussing new car prices in a decade while everybody who isn’t a computer toucher struggles with what’s left of the used car market
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Apr 8, 2023 20:23
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it's not so much EVs specifically as that capital cannot conceive of a solution to a crisis of over production being solved by anything but more production. lucky you, we've invented a new commodity that makes you feel superior for having bought it, buy now while supplies last!
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Apr 8, 2023 20:26
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PostNouveau posted:Maybe if they can get the charge times down to like 30-60 minutes Standardized batteries that can be swapped out at a station like riders used to change horses Or we just normalize people living within 300 miles of their work and loved ones for the most part and use trains for everything else
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Apr 8, 2023 20:26
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Climate Indulgences have been distilled into a sleek and fashionable product that will be sure to make your bougie freak neighbors jealous enough to buy one of their own - it's the ultimate evolution of the religion of consumption
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Apr 8, 2023 20:27
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skipmyseashells posted:ev’s aren’t gonna happen lol, at best you goons in this thread will be discussing new car prices in a decade while everybody who isn’t a computer toucher struggles with what’s left of the used car market I bet that efficient entry level gas cars straight up will not depreciate if you go buy one new. Somebody said the Kia Rio still exists, it you can get a new car for $16k you'll be able to sell it for $20k with 80,000 miles on it in a few years.
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Apr 8, 2023 20:27
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That 20k will be worth $200 by then
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Apr 8, 2023 20:30
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skipmyseashells posted:ev’s aren’t gonna happen lol, at best you goons in this thread will be discussing new car prices in a decade while everybody who isn’t a computer toucher struggles with what’s left of the used car market that's how it is already, hence the hilarious state of the automotive debt situation i'm expecting sin taxes on non-hybrid/EV as the perfect democrat policy to lose an election and wring more blood from the poor
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Apr 8, 2023 20:34
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SlimGoodbody posted:UBI as proposed by Silicon Valley VC types is gonna be the kind where every single other social welfare program in the country is eliminated, but hey, at least you get $1,000 a month. Oh, also, now that everyone has a guaranteed $1,000/month, you're never gonna guess how much rent at every single rental unit is going up by. Andrew Yang's proposal was $1,000 for all... MINUS any benefits you currently received, including state benefits, food stamps, child aid, EITC, etc. That's how he made the numbers work. The result would be essentially a redistribution of money from existing benefit recipients to everyone else. Not a single Yang supporter understood this.
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Apr 8, 2023 20:41
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You could fill libraries with things Yang supporters didn't know
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Apr 8, 2023 20:43
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🧢 that says math lol
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Apr 8, 2023 20:43
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Bar Ran Dun posted:EVs are what is happening. I don’t see it being turned around with the sunk costs that are being incurred. If it's happening they are not building the infrastructure to make it possible.
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Apr 8, 2023 20:56
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YangGang
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Apr 8, 2023 21:02
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Vox Nihili posted:Andrew Yang's proposal was $1,000 for all... MINUS any benefits you currently received, including state benefits, food stamps, child aid, EITC, etc. That's how he made the numbers work. The result would be essentially a redistribution of money from existing benefit recipients to everyone else. To be somewhat fair just giving everyone a functional amount of money rather than means testing each aspect of it would be a step forward, breaking things apart into food stamps, child credits, blah blah blah is dumb in the first place. Not like it's gonna happen anyways.
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Apr 8, 2023 21:03
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Vox Nihili posted:Andrew Yang's proposal was $1,000 for all... MINUS any benefits you currently received, including state benefits, food stamps, child aid, EITC, etc. That's how he made the numbers work. The result would be essentially a redistribution of money from existing benefit recipients to everyone else. UBI in the libertarian Silicon Valley sense should be the enemy of any socialist. It is a great way to keep the neoliberal grift going, which is why the Nordics especially continue to dip their toes in. It is a huge give away to the real estate and finance sector as it continues to keep the asset price inflation going (keeping cost of living like housing artificially high) and continues to add to debt deflation (by allowing banks to inflate both loan originations and refi at higher nominal prices, leading to less consumer spending). that so many liberals and socialists continue to be bamboozled by UBI means that it’s working, and the finance oligarchy would like nothing more than to siphon away that income to rents with their monopoly power.
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Apr 8, 2023 21:09
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https://twitter.com/WSJ/status/1644551049171050496 let's go brandon awooo
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Apr 8, 2023 21:09
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they can sell the EVs en masse without infrastructure to make them useful becausethe bitcoin of weed posted:Climate Indulgences have been distilled into a sleek and fashionable product that will be sure to make your bougie freak neighbors jealous enough to buy one of their own - it's the ultimate evolution of the religion of consumption
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Apr 8, 2023 21:17
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axelord posted:If it's happening they are not building the infrastructure to make it possible. they're trying to cheat by just using 90% of the same terrible existing car infrastructure. the charging question is meant to be something the sagacious Consumer installs in their own home at their own expense, or perhaps a Woke Business includes in their oversized parking lot
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Apr 8, 2023 21:19
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PoundSand posted:To be somewhat fair just giving everyone a functional amount of money rather than means testing each aspect of it would be a step forward, breaking things apart into food stamps, child credits, blah blah blah is dumb in the first place. Not like it's gonna happen anyways. $1,000/month in lieu of public housing/Section 8, public healthcare, welfare, food stamps, etc. would flat out kill off a ton of poor people. Without other public programs that money just goes straight to rent.
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Apr 8, 2023 21:20
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Admittedly the Yang UBI program wouldn't immediately end those other public programs, although that seemed to be the ultimate goal. It would just mean needy people get as little as $0 in aid on top of paying an additional VAT on basic goods.
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Apr 8, 2023 21:24
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UBI only works as an addition to an expansive welfare state not a replacement for it it's not hard come on
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Apr 8, 2023 21:26
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skipmyseashells posted:ev’s aren’t gonna happen lol, I have been watching it happen. I’m not telling you an opinion. I’m taking you something materially occurring right now.
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Apr 8, 2023 21:26
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the reason car manufacturers are all in on EVs is because theyre going to be cheaper to produce in a couple of years but theyve been charging massive markups on them. win/win.
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Apr 8, 2023 21:29
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atelier morgan posted:i'm expecting sin taxes on non-hybrid/EV as the perfect democrat policy to lose an election and wring more blood from the poor they’re going to ban the sale of new non EV/Hybrids. This is also already happening, there is a already in place deadline in California of 2035. the EPA is also about to issue emissions rules that will practically make that the case nation wide.
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Apr 8, 2023 21:29
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anime was right posted:the reason car manufacturers are all in on EVs is because theyre going to be cheaper to produce in a couple of years but theyve been charging massive markups on them. win/win. yeah they are scaling right now. I mean the photo ops are months old already. This was Feb. 
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Apr 8, 2023 21:33
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Yeah California has a bit of a bully pulpit that it doesn't use very much but is definitely of measurable impact. We're a big enough economy, with a large enough population and physical space footprint, that when we actually make some kind of declaration about how products have to work if you're gonna sell/use them in CA, manufacturers have to get in line because it just isn't economy feasible for them to create branching product lines wherein some of their output conforms to California law and some don't. Like I think it might have been California that actually got the critical mass point going for all cars to have seatbelts. This is one reason I keep hoping against hope that we'll actually get a California state socialized medicine bill passed like we keep flirting with. We're big and influential enough to maybe thumb the scale for other states to follow suit. I have idly wondered if it would be useful to create a union of states willing to enact universal state healthcare to pool costs, coverage, and bargaining power until the federal government takes the hint and federalizes the program.
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Apr 8, 2023 21:37
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Bar Ran Dun posted:they’re going to ban the sale of new non EV/Hybrids. This is also already happening, there is a already in place deadline in California of 2035. the EPA is also about to issue emissions rules that will practically make that the case nation wide. poor people will just continue to use old cars and will need to be punished for their intransigence
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Apr 8, 2023 21:38
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Bar Ran Dun posted:they’re going to ban the sale of new non EV/Hybrids. This is also already happening, there is a already in place deadline in California of 2035. the EPA is also about to issue emissions rules that will practically make that the case nation wide. That deadline in California is going to be pushed back. Do you think Energy companies and half the country is just going to roll over on this? People were frothing at the mouth over gas stoves. What happens the next time the GOP controls the White house?
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Apr 8, 2023 21:41
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axelord posted:That deadline in California is going to be pushed back. car companies are going to keep making EVs because they make more money off them. simple as.
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Apr 8, 2023 21:45
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axelord posted:That deadline in California is going to be pushed back. Also California's power infrastructure regularly hits its breaking point every summer. I'm not sure how having a steel mill on every other corner is going to work?
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Apr 8, 2023 21:47
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skooma512 posted:Also California's power infrastructure regularly hits its breaking point every summer. I'm not sure how having a steel mill on every other corner is going to work? burn the gasoline people aren't using anymore. bing bong so simple
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Apr 8, 2023 21:49
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anime was right posted:car companies are going to keep making EVs because they make more money off them. simple as. Sure, but at the same time PG&E makes more money by not doing maintenance and not building new infrastructure.
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Apr 8, 2023 21:56
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anime was right posted:car companies are going to keep making EVs because they make more money off them. simple as. also the government wants to chase the latest trend, so they hand out tax breaks to ev businesses, making them even more profitable
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Apr 8, 2023 21:59
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atelier morgan posted:poor people will just continue to use old cars and will need to be punished for their intransigence oh yeah of course.
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Apr 8, 2023 22:13
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axelord posted:That deadline in California is going to be pushed back. I think they missed their opportunity. yeah the Cali date might. but the big 3 are trying to make it. and it’s not like the stoves. the electrics (and hybrids) outperform . and the energy companies are already operating with this in mind. what this means for them is export.
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Apr 8, 2023 22:19
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axelord posted:Sure, but at the same time PG&E makes more money by not doing maintenance and not building new infrastructure. This could work in PG&Es favor. Ignore the distribution system until it fails, and just build centralized charging locations. Then people drive their giant mobile batteries to fill up on electrons and bring them home to run their house. PG&E will get to charge more money for “reasons” while paying for even less maintenance they don’t do. And they get to earn a ton of money on holdbacks from building out all these charging station projects.
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Apr 8, 2023 22:23
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axelord posted:That deadline in California is going to be pushed back. We don't need to wonder what will happen when the next time the GOP controls the White House, because we know what happened when they did last time and eliminated CA's EPA waiver for setting its own strict tailpipe and zero-emission standards: almost every major manufacturer ended up siding with California ([1] [2]). It doesn't matter which party is in charge. There's a saying: as California goes, so goes the nation. For example, seventeen states have adopted California's tailpipe emissions rules and fifteen have backed its zero-emission vehicle requirements. CA is the trend-setter because it is the largest economy in the country by a large margin, and the auto manufacturers know this.
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Apr 8, 2023 22:28
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