|
"paid interviewing process"
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2023 22:57
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 15:42 |
|
|
minato posted:Turns out at a lot of places, PIP == "HR is putting together the documentation necessary to cover the company's rear end for when they let you go" and you never really had a chance.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2023 22:58
|
|
|
FMguru posted:That's 98% of PIPs in my experience. It's just HR letting you know as a courtesy that they are getting their ducks in a row to fire you, and you should probably start job hunting ASAP hint hint. I've never worked anywhere this wasn't the case. Some goons occasionally post about know about this one time somebody pulled it off.......but I've never seen it. bob dobbs is dead posted:"paid interviewing process" lol
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2023 23:03
|
|
|
My theory is someone read in a management book “if someone is surprised to be fired, that’s a management failure” and decided that the solution was to move the surprise up one month and call it a pip.
|
|
#
?
Apr 10, 2023 23:20
|
|
|
Postin' in the oldie thread. Got 19 years under my belt now and my beard has become fairly grey. Man, my timing for leaving the tech industry for a temporary sabbatical was not great :| I like the stop-gap retail job I got but I genuinely miss programming these days, looking forward to getting back to it and getting lots of money for it again
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 00:55
|
|
|
Motronic posted:I've never worked anywhere this wasn't the case. Some goons occasionally post about know about this one time somebody pulled it off.......but I've never seen it. For what it's worth, I've been in that situation personally, and I know other people who've also been there (and are still employed here). I think it mostly comes down to whether management likes you and wants to keep you around.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 01:59
|
|
|
There are times when you can get out of a PIP if you have a manager or someone fighting for you, while HR is saying "for reasons, this person seems like they really need to be on a PIP." If your manager isn't explicitly fighting for you, you're out
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 02:49
|
|
|
to be clear, the reason for this is that the manager should have been giving the PIPed person "you need to do better, here's how you can do better" feedback for a long time before a formal pip is at all a possibility. the pip is what happens once the manager says "ugh fine i guess they aren't going to fix it on their own, better loop in HR"
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 02:57
|
|
|
carry on then posted:Go gently caress yourself. i'd give you advice from my perspective as a hiring manager, but you've always been a complete piece of poo poo to everyone in yospos for no reason. so you can suck my dick, fuckman
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 04:33
|
|
|
carry on then posted:Would I have any luck at a FAANG (ideally the hardware A) or FAANG-lite? Since being at a FAANG company, the people who have been on my teams have had previous experience at: Sears, a company that writes printer drivers a company that makes wind turbines a company that makes barcode readers a small defense contractor a Chinese telecom and I myself came from a financial services company, with a couple years at a defense contractor before that, and a mediocre GPA at a state school. In 7 years I only recall working with one person who came from another FAANG, although I know it isn't uncommon. Point being, your resume isn't any worse than a ton of experienced hires even at a FAANG
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 05:00
|
|
|
To the angry goon in a well: work on improving your attitude and mental well being, I can guarantee your toxicity is leaking in your everyday life and is probably a major factor in your layoff. Try exercising first if you are not doing any physical exercise.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 12:49
|
|
|
Jose Valasquez posted:FAANG being difficult to get into right now has nothing to do with your experience, it has to do with FAANG cutting jobs left and right currently. I work at a FAANG. That should tell you all you need to know about FAANGs.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 13:36
|
|
|
The worst thing about working in a Large Organization™ is how even the most simple things take a long time to get done. I can't even do Step 2 of this hello world example for the company's special Kubernetes cluster because they changed how their security permissions work to require a new thing that they can only give out manually, and their SLA for each time you reach out to them is 1 week (and it took the full week for them to manually give me the extra permission scope). edit: and the new thing was never added to their documentation, so it was an unforeseeable blocker. This happens for literally everything, and it sucks always having to tell the managers that the process sucks so much we get delayed on even the most basic things.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 16:38
|
|
|
Pollyanna posted:I work at a FAANG. That should tell you all you need to know about FAANGs. You were a very strong candidate, so... FAANGs hire good devs?
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 17:52
|
|
|
I don’t feel like a good dev 
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 17:55
|
|
|
I just had a preliminary phone conversation with a recruiter for an edtech company. When we talked about compensation, they were able to tell me about base salary and signing bonus, but not about stock options; apparently only VPs are allowed to discuss that?! Is that common? (They also don't do an annual bonus, but apparently do provide "generous" performance-based raises of usually around 5%! Wow!)
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 18:30
|
|
|
TooMuchAbstraction posted:I just had a preliminary phone conversation with a recruiter for an edtech company. When we talked about compensation, they were able to tell me about base salary and signing bonus, but not about stock options; apparently only VPs are allowed to discuss that?! Is that common? No, the board needs to approve the stock compensation plans, but if a company has equity incentives it's generally known and part of the standard comp package at whatever level. Recruiter should know roughly what portion of comp is expected at a given level, though talking in concrete terms isn't something that they like doing because it removes opportunities to low ball people. Most of the time equity grants are determined as a % of base in dollar terms, with more senior people getting larger %. Sounds like they don't have RSUs or options as part of normal comp packages.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 19:10
|
|
|
Pollyanna posted:I don’t feel like a good dev 
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 19:17
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 19:32
|
|
|
leper khan posted:No, the board needs to approve the stock compensation plans, but if a company has equity incentives it's generally known and part of the standard comp package at whatever level. Recruiter should know roughly what portion of comp is expected at a given level, though talking in concrete terms isn't something that they like doing because it removes opportunities to low ball people. Yeah, that's about what I figured. Thanks for the context/perspective! The recruiter did note that they were options, not RSUs, and that they themselves did not get any. So that job isn't happening, but no big deal. It was good practice if nothing else.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 19:32
|
|
|
Love Stole the Day posted:The worst thing about working in a Large Organization™ is how even the most simple things take a long time to get done. but I've never worked for a big company so I don't know much about what it's like!!
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 19:34
|
|
|
like all vaguely creative pursuits, set and setting matter as much as the person. programming is just weird inasmuch as the fair majority of programming is well paid and corporate
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 19:34
|
|
|
Sivart13 posted:recently I've heard it the opposite way, that people from big companies get frustrated when they go to a little one and all the Kubernetes nonsense isn't set up already I work for a big company and the devs here are shocked when anything isn't done for them. Not only is it not devops, they seem to have no operational responsibilities whatsoever. Instead, there's an app support team that restarts that JVM on the weekends when their app shits itself again. Just another "JVM memory leak" as if it's Java's fault.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 19:39
|
|
|
Sivart13 posted:recently I've heard it the opposite way, that people from big companies get frustrated when they go to a little one and all the Kubernetes nonsense isn't set up already big company: all that poo poo is set up and red taped and getting the right person to make a config change for you takes two weeks, but if anything goes wrong it's not really your problem small company: you are that person, in this and all endeavors, good luck setting up k8s you own it now Guinness fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Apr 11, 2023 |
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 19:39
|
|
|
Why are there so many companies in the self-driving and EV spaces? I haven't heard of most of these at all. Waabi, Rivian, Luminar, Cruise, Fisker all show up in my job searches. Self-driving vehicle startups seem particularly dubious, in that there are companies that have invested billions in that space only to find out that it's really hard and complicated and expensive...so why would a startup be able to succeed where they failed?
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 20:06
|
|
|
TooMuchAbstraction posted:Why are there so many companies in the self-driving and EV spaces? I haven't heard of most of these at all. Waabi, Rivian, Luminar, Cruise, Fisker all show up in my job searches. They don't need to succeed, they only need to get bought by GM, Toyota, Ford, Bosch, etc because they appear to do one small part of this correctly or at least better than anyone else. I don't think any of those companies have an exit plan that doesn't involve selling out to the man.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 20:11
|
|
|
Motronic posted:They don't need to succeed, they only need to get bought by GM, Toyota, Ford, Bosch, etc because they appear to do one small part of this correctly or at least better than anyone else. I don't think any of those companies have an exit plan that doesn't involve selling out to the man. ...yeah, duh, that makes sense. Thank you! 
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 20:14
|
|
|
Motronic posted:They don't need to succeed, they only need to get bought by GM, Toyota, Ford, Bosch, etc because they appear to do one small part of this correctly or at least better than anyone else. I don't think any of those companies have an exit plan that doesn't involve selling out to the man. Doesn't seem to be limited to the self-driving space either.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 20:43
|
|
|
oldjob used to blow me up: * on vacation * over the holidays, at my son's birthday lunch * late at night when I'm trying to evacuate from a goddamned wildfire * when i'm in the middle of interviewing for another job (lol my phone was off of course) faang job pays me a lot better and when i am done with work, i am _done with work_
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 21:06
|
|
|
This is too real; impostor syndrome never gives up. I was stressing out this weekend because some tasks in an area I’m typically responsible for were moved to someone else, and I’m thinking that I’m going to get PIP’d or something. Came in today and found out that those tasks had been moved off me to free me up for more important responsibilities.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 21:37
|
|
|
Achmed Jones posted:oldjob used to blow me up: Same at a faang-lite. Gonna feel weird when I return back to a smaller company in a few months, but at least it is in the EU and they take that after-hours poo poo very seriously.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 22:23
|
|
|
TooMuchAbstraction posted:Why are there so many companies in the self-driving and EV spaces? I haven't heard of most of these at all. Waabi, Rivian, Luminar, Cruise, Fisker all show up in my job searches. I worked at Luminar. I won't recommend it, but it's a real company and I've worked worse places. Their main business is making lidar sensors which get included in other company's self-driving packages.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 22:50
|
|
|
LLSix posted:I worked at Luminar. I won't recommend it, but it's a real company and I've worked worse places. Their main business is making lidar sensors which get included in other company's self-driving packages. Noted, thank you. I don't think I applied to them, but if I did and they get back to me, I'll treat it as practice. My connection to a lot of these places is frankly kind of tenuous, I think. They're looking for people with extensive experience in embedded software. My experience is in computer-driven microscopes, so you have a regular-rear end PC with maybe a fancy PCE card in it, serial cables, or most commonly USB cables, running out to cameras, lasers, digital signal processors, delay generators, piezoelectric drives, etc. My job was to write code that invokes vendor APIs and/or sends serial commands to get the various bits of hardware to do the right thing at the right time.
|
|
#
?
Apr 11, 2023 23:01
|
|
|
TooMuchAbstraction posted:Why are there so many companies in the self-driving and EV spaces? I haven't heard of most of these at all. Waabi, Rivian, Luminar, Cruise, Fisker all show up in my job searches. FWIW Rivian and Fisker are actual car manufacturers. Fisker is a bit more obscure and is in its second iteration which may or may not be more successful than the first. Rivian is actually selling real vehicles (a truck and an SUV) that are generally well-reviewed and actually exist (like, if I'm out and about on any given day in my area I'll probably see at least one).
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 01:58
|
|
|
I guess I should do a proper post in here, really. Apologies in advance for the wall of text. I got laid off at the end of January, didn't particularly start looking until mid-late February for Reasons (I was supposed to have surgery then they decided they wouldn't actually go through with it even though I got COBRA coverage). I spent from mid 2016-mid 2021 working at a nonprofit doing front end dev, they had a merger in the middle of that. Used a bit of Angular early on but am super rusty and also they've had a million versions since then, otherwise mostly pretty basic CSS/SASS, vanilla JS and outdated jQuery, some d3 which has gotten me a look in some places. I realized that I was stagnating for a couple years but always had too much going on to try and apply to something that would build more skills and let me advance my career, until I ultimately got laid off in May 2021. Luckily, the job hunt then was way easier than now, so I got a job at an agency which I figured would give me some on-the-job experience with more modern and desirable skills. I ended up mostly learning PHP, was starting to pick up React Native for a project just before I got canned. What I know I need to fix: I have a personal github profile that's empty as hell, I gotta start at least putting the lil apps I build going through udemy courses there. What isn't so easy to fix: Education is a biggie. I don't have a college degree (and, though it hasn't actually come up yet, I don't even have a high school degree). I did attend Caltech for some time attempting to get a bachelor's in math before dropping out bc broken brains (which you'd best believe I still put on my resume and try to spin) but I directly got into the industry through one of the hated coding bootcamps that presumably have all the "real" programmers spitting at me before crossing the street. I have enough mathematical background that it helps still, but my credentials on paper are dogshit. Last time I was interviewing this wasn't really a problem but, ya know... I'm not trying to go all E/N and I've got enough saved that I'm not in dire straits immediately or anything, but I'm starting to feel the panic a lil bit. I'm having trouble getting past the goddamn phone screens these days, it's like night and day compared to before. I wasn't thinking even in the good times that I could jump into Big Tech but I'm starting to feel like untreated depression/undiagnosed adhd/general brokebrains meant I wasn't making the early career moves I was supposed to and now I'm just hosed. I've had folks I trust review my resume, I've applied to some senior roles that are probably too ambitious but also plenty of mid-level roles, hundreds of them by now and almost nothing. I've had nothing but positive reviews from every manager I've had and one even said he'd like to see me move into more of a mentorship position so I'm presumably not a completely dogshit programmer, so if you were in my position, what would you do?
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 03:34
|
|
|
Keep applying. It sucks and it is frustrating, but the hiring process in our industry is insane so all you can do is keep trying. It feels like forever while you’re in the middle of it but mid-February to now isn’t even two months. I have had job hunts three times that long. Just keep trying. Start making a note of the questions you get asked during phone screens right afterwards. Practicing giving good answers to those questions. You want to present yourself in the most positive light possible. If you post some of the phone questions and your planned answer, we can help you workshop the answer. For interviewing in general you want to have a couple of success stories that you’ve practiced and refined and can tweak to answer questions with.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 04:16
|
|
|
AskYourself posted:To the angry goon in a well: work on improving your attitude and mental well being, I can guarantee your toxicity is leaking in your everyday life and is probably a major factor in your layoff. Yes, this
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 06:20
|
|
|
woke kaczynski posted:I guess I should do a proper post in here, really. Apologies in advance for the wall of text. That sucks, sorry. Agree with LLSix that it hasn't been that long and sounds like you have enough experience and good feedback that your skills shouldn't be the issue. I've not been in a situation like yours, but you asked what I would do in your position anyways --- I'd read up a bit on the sales process and try to map it to interviewing, i.e., try to actually analyze each stage of the process and try to figure out which was the limiting step. I'd try to shift my mentality away from anything that was making me feel failure and try to reframe it -- something like, you're not unemployed, instead you're 100% on a commission only high-touch high-margin service sales job selling "Woke Kazinski's kickass computer touching and keyboard wrangling." The job right now isn't DOING the computer touching or keyboard wrangling, it is SALES for the service. I don't have experience in sales (except previous interviewing phases which weren't many), and suspect you don't either, so I'd lean heavily on anything I could find to read about it. If you've applied to hundreds of jobs in a month and a half, sounds like you're doing pretty OK on finding cold leads, so I actually also might start trying to get warm leads to start with? Use linkedin to look up people you used to work with who may have left the companies you were at awhile ago and are now settled somewhere new, send them a ping asking if they know of any openings at their place or possibly have other friends/acquaintances who might know of openings elsewhere? I might want to analytically break down what's going on with the questions & answers & stuff on the phone screens or whatever first to make sure there's nothing correctable in how I presented myself there before I tried to swap over to the warm leads, 'cuz inherently are going to be fewer of those and I'd want to maximize chances. There's an interviewing thread in Yospos and a separate one in BFC. BFC also has an absolutely amazing thread on negotiating, too. I'd check out the OPs of all of those and the last several pages & maybe post there whenever need moral support or encouragement or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 13:34
|
|
|
I burned a day this week after my TL linked me to a framework's docs and told me to rewrite some code to follow the framework's recommended best practices. It required lots of confusing boilerplate that wasn't documented very well, had to combine bits and pieces of recommendations from several different docs covering different concepts it mentioned. I got his approval and then the next reviewer wanted to remove it. They thought it was too complicated and asked if we could do something simple, like what I originally had. My TL instantly agreed so I changed it back. It feels weird because I don't think he's ever dropped a suggestion when I disagreed with him but when someone else said something like "too complicated, can't you just use a stub for this?" without further elaboration he instantly agreed. That was a peer TL on an adjacent team so maybe he just looks at titles to decide whether to agree? I wonder if he'd have dropped it had I pushed back instead of following his suggestions. The last time I tried to ask why he wanted something done a certain way he just replied with "please make the changes" so I stopped asking.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 16:38
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 27, 2024 15:42 |
|
|
oliveoil posted:The last time I tried to ask why he wanted something done a certain way he just replied with "please make the changes" so I stopped asking. He's not doing his job. Your call as to whether to push on him or find a new team.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 16:43
|
|