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ever since Havana syndrome rolled around, all the remote viewers' estimations have been off the mark
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Apr 12, 2023 03:15
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my bony fealty posted:Jolie West
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Apr 12, 2023 03:16
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https://twitter.com/molly0xfff/status/1645892165975908352 https://twitter.com/pmarca/status/1633287578383437824 the post being replied to: 
mawarannahr has issued a correction as of 06:34 on Apr 12, 2023 |
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Apr 12, 2023 06:30
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https://twitter.com/wesleysmorgan/status/1645806796580478977?t=VeT1RhkbrNbvBNPaj0QkHQ&s=19 loving lmao of course he is
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Apr 12, 2023 08:07
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I don't know where else to put this, but I'm watching "Waco: American Apocalypse", a Netflix documentary about the titular siege. The thing that sticks out to me is that they use a lot of CGI shots interspersed with archival footage, and while my eyes can easily pick out the CGI if it's a broad daylight shot (no people is the tip-off), they also apply a filter in some of the shots: either the green night-vision view, or the black-and-white IR camera like from a Spectre gunship. And it's trickier in that sense because the "naturally" worse quality of the image means that a loy of the dead giveaways of CGI are occluded. Anyway if anyone wants to drop parapolitical sources on Ruby Ridge or Waco, feel free.
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Apr 12, 2023 11:07
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1. The skeevy angle is that they have two women who survived the compound, who appear to continue to be believers in the cause to this day, and they relate their experiences, and for the most part it provides an interesting contrast in viewpoint so that it's not just all about the Feds, but at one point, they talk about Koresh having sex with all the women in the compound and abusing the kids, and the women at this point are used to justify to the camera and to the audience, why this was acceptable. 2. What the hell they brought Abrams tanks to the siege 3. This isn't as bad as the other Netflix docus I've watched (especially the execrable MH370 docu) where there's a very latent agenda. At least it's just a boilerplate government story. If anything there's a couple of bits where they tell how the FBI/Hostage Rescue Team were acting like dicks and were hamstringing the efforts of the negotiators. And indeed the negotiators are forced out entirely in favor of the FBI taking a hardline approach. 4. The docu alleges that the FBI got so impatient that they railroaded Janet Reno into approving their plan to throw tear gas into the compound (which they insist was "not an assault" as they drive a Bradley into the walls) 5. The FBI gets to cover their rear end and assert that they had nothing to do with the compound being set on fire. 6. Oh motherfucker they do a cinematic universe sequel drop into McVeigh and Oklahoma City What an incredible gently caress up
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Apr 12, 2023 12:21
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"McVeigh was just mad about Ruby Ridge and Waco, nothing else to see here, stop looking no why are you still looking" is a good narrative, I told a family member recently that I'm a Tim McVeigh truther, do recommend doing this.
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Apr 12, 2023 12:42
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Tim McVey truther 
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Apr 12, 2023 14:31
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Out of curiosity, how is the doc absolving the feds of responsibility for the fire? Even if we accept Koresh ordered his followers to start it, them going out in a literal blaze of glory is a foreseeable consequence of giving a millenarian doomsday cult the apocalyptic confrontation with the forces of evil that they want. Who actually set the fire is immaterial.
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Apr 12, 2023 15:03
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Azathoth posted:Out of curiosity, how is the doc absolving the feds of responsibility for the fire? Even if we accept Koresh ordered his followers to start it, them going out in a literal blaze of glory is a foreseeable consequence of giving a millenarian doomsday cult the apocalyptic confrontation with the forces of evil that they want. Who actually set the fire is immaterial. it takes three of the FBI talking heads they had and has them make statements that they didn't have anything to do with the fire, then cuts to one of the Branch Davidian survivors saying they did, then cuts back to one of the FBI guys saying he's a liar, then he explains that they detected four fires starting simultaneously, and the doc has the fake IR cam showing what he meant. I guess what I meant more was that the framing was crafted to emphasize it very strongly
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Apr 12, 2023 15:11
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was is Koresh that was called Mr Retardo as a kid, or was that some other cult leader?
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Apr 12, 2023 15:28
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lol
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Apr 12, 2023 15:29
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RandolphCarter posted:was is Koresh that was called Mr Retardo as a kid, or was that some other cult leader? that was me actualy
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Apr 12, 2023 15:32
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That's fair. I guess I've always hated the overall framing of the blame as "welp they burned themselves not our fault" as somehow absolving the feds in any way. Even if the feds were telling the absolute truth, it doesn't exonerate them one bit. They had religious experts screaming at them that their heavy handed bullshit was playing into the apocalyptic expectations of the group. Even without that guidance though, it was painfully obvious that they were dealing with the group equivalent of a suicidal person with a hostage, and they decided the best approach was to constantly antagonize them, then rush them when they got sick of waiting. It doesn't ultimately matter who set the fires because the feds chose a set of actions that meant there was always gonna be a bloodbath. Which action and by who that set the events in motion doesn't matter, and focusing on who started the fire often comes at the cost of ignoring all the other figurative fire starting the feds did that led up to that point.
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Apr 12, 2023 15:33
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RandolphCarter posted:was is Koresh that was called Mr Retardo as a kid, or was that some other cult leader? yep, that was him
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Apr 12, 2023 15:33
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please, my father was Doctor Retardo. you can call me retard.
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Apr 12, 2023 15:38
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Yeah the other thing the doc tries to do is to make it sound like the only reason nobody left the compound was because they were enthralled by Koresh, and not, like, because they could see that anyone that left the compound was thrown in jail, or that they feared getting shot as soon as they stepped out, or that there's a literal tank on their front door. Good post, Az.
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Apr 12, 2023 15:48
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i remember waco: the rules of engagement being a more anti-fed viewpoint
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Apr 12, 2023 17:06
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doctor hilarious
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Apr 12, 2023 17:08
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RandolphCarter posted:was is Koresh that was called Mr Retardo as a kid, or was that some other cult leader? Domo arigato mister retardo
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Apr 12, 2023 17:10
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Azathoth posted:Which action and by who that set the events in motion doesn't matter, and focusing on who started the fire often comes at the cost of ignoring all the other figurative fire starting the feds did that led up to that point. Yeah that kind of focus obfuscating analysis is a running theme in trying to examine events like this critically too.
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Apr 12, 2023 17:25
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Leonard Bernstein
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Apr 12, 2023 17:41
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I read some accounts of branch Davidians (not related to the assault, just day to day life) and they were terrifying, because 1) the believers come across as completely regular American idiots. I guess I had a cult member stereotype and was thinking only a certain kind of desperate person was vulnerable, but no 2) they didn’t even seem to like David Koresh. It did not take a mega charismatic figure to lead the cult, just a loser with gumption. in combination the impression I got was “I just want to live my life, but drat it, Jesus Christ reincarnated and he needs me. and I don’t even like the guy!” it’s like there is just a button in the brain that can be pushed.
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Apr 12, 2023 17:56
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Best Friends posted:it’s like there is just a button in the brain that can be pushed. Well I'm sure glad there hasn't been any experimentation on this.
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Apr 12, 2023 18:03
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doctor not flame retardo
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Apr 12, 2023 19:02
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actually my original family surname was Retardo but they changed it to look more American.
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Apr 12, 2023 19:04
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Best Friends posted:I read some accounts of branch Davidians (not related to the assault, just day to day life) and they were terrifying, because There's a solid reason that most Christian denominations don't accept that prophets currently exist or could exist in the future. Once you have a belief structure that accepts that one day someone from your community might stand up and say that last night God spoke to them, things can get real bad real quick even if the person is well meaning, and things go off the rails in a heartbeat if the person is a manipulative psycho like Koresh.
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Apr 12, 2023 19:05
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The HRT guy in the waco doc was a complete psychopath just itching to kill poo poo
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Apr 12, 2023 20:36
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Futanari Damacy posted:Tim McVey truther Oy Veigh
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Apr 12, 2023 23:29
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I don’t see how it’s controversial that tear gas canisters could start a fire, it’s pretty common with all types of smoke grenade. They’re supposed to combust slowly, but when, for whatever reason, they go up all at once they really go up. Instead of being released over x minutes the filler ignites all at once, it’s pretty intense. e: Though that still doesn’t explain not attempting to extinguish the fire or save lives. I guess they maintain they were still being shot at?
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Apr 12, 2023 23:35
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Just thinking about (IIRC) this FBI dossier talking about how McVeigh was bi and was getting a blowie from some dude but turned him off when he started talking about Waco during the BJ.
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Apr 12, 2023 23:37
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ContinuityNewTimes posted:The HRT guy in the waco doc was a complete psychopath just itching to kill poo poo wasn't expecting trans representation to make an appearance here cat botherer posted:Just thinking about (IIRC) this FBI dossier talking about how McVeigh was bi and was getting a blowie from some dude but turned him off when he started talking about Waco during the BJ. broke: thinking about baseball woke: talking about waco
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Apr 12, 2023 23:38
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Frosted Flake posted:I don’t see how it’s controversial that tear gas canisters could start a fire, it’s pretty common with all types of smoke grenade. They’re supposed to combust slowly, but when, for whatever reason, they go up all at once they really go up. Instead of being released over x minutes the filler ignites all at once, it’s pretty intense. That they didn't attempt to flee or otherwise put out the fire or do anything but sit there and wait to die, at least so far as the reports go, is the most compelling evidence that Koresh ordered the fires be set. It's all interpretation, and like I said before, the FBI is guilty regardless of who set it, but given their belief systems and the totality of it, I do think Koresh decided that they weren't gonna be taken alive and ordered them to set it.
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Apr 12, 2023 23:44
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I think I saw a video with a Waco survivor recently. Maybe it was on Breaking Points? He said the Netflix show was trash, iirc. Seemed open to the idea that his first person recollection could be incorrect, and understood just being present doesn't mean he was 100% in the know, so he spent a lot of time researching the events to corroborate information.
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Apr 12, 2023 23:44
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cat botherer posted:Just thinking about (IIRC) this FBI dossier talking about how McVeigh was bi and was getting a blowie from some dude but turned him off when he started talking about Waco during the BJ. disinfo written by Larry A. Potts next!
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Apr 12, 2023 23:47
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ive heard of blowing a guy in a federal building but that tim guy took it a bit too far imho
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Apr 12, 2023 23:48
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Found it: https://youtu.be/rTb8b6WXcMk
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Apr 12, 2023 23:48
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A Bakers Cousin posted:ive heard of blowing a guy in a federal building but that tim guy took it a bit too far imho hey it's important that people feel free to experiment and express themselves. eventually he realized he was into foot
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Apr 12, 2023 23:50
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ram dass in hell posted:hey it's important that people feel free to experiment and express themselves. eventually he realized he was into foot  *puffs a pipe and slaps the table happily*
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Apr 13, 2023 00:01
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https://usrtk.org/risky-research/ebola-outbreak-origins/quote:A U.S.government-supported research laboratory in Kenema, Sierra Leone has come under scrutiny as a possible source of the epidemic’s origin. This laboratory has been operated by the U.S. nonprofit Viral Hemorrhagic Fever Consortium (VHFC) since 2010. A couple of thoughts: Kristian Andersen and Robert Garry are two of the authors of the "Proximal Origin" paper dreamed up by Fauci in a secretive conference call at the start of the covid pandemic, which attempted to debunk rumours of a lab origin of SARS-CoV-2. It is scientifically worthless, basically just propaganda Metabiota, gently caress where do we start. Metabiota has a contract to run biolabs in Ukraine and Georgia through the US DoD's DTRA programme and received more than $500,000 from an investment fund co-founded by Hunter Biden called Rosemont Seneca. Even "Politifact" admits this is true btw Metabiota's founder is a guy called Nathan Wolfe, an associate of Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell (see I'm making it directly thread-relevant). Wolfe is a co-founder of Maxwell's "charity" TerraMar who also sat on the board of EcoHealth Alliance at one point. Anyway in 2011 Wolfe wrote a book called "The Viral Storm: The Dawn of a New Pandemic Age", in the acknowledgements section of the book he gives thanks to none other than Epstein and Boris Nikolic, Bill Gates's bodyguard and executor of Epstein's will, for some reason Why do the same names keep loving popping up with this poo poo!!!
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Apr 13, 2023 08:49
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