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Polaron
Oct 13, 2010

The Oncoming Storm

Psion posted:

literally, until Hanse Davion reinvents them by asking "what if we had a second jumpship waiting where the first one's gonna go?" and this is why everyone was powerless against The Fox.



yes that whole scenario made me laugh, of course it did. it's no 750 kilobytes on K-F drives, but it's up there.

It's the sort of thing that sounds extremely obvious until you take into account how insanely loving expensive and delicate JumpShips are. You pretty much have to be an economic and technological hyperpower by Inner Sphere standards just to deploy that many of them.

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Pattonesque
Jul 15, 2004
johnny jesus and the infield fly rule

Psion posted:

literally, until Hanse Davion reinvents them by asking "what if we had a second jumpship waiting where the first one's gonna go?" and this is why everyone was powerless against The Fox.



yes that whole scenario made me laugh, of course it did. it's no 750 kilobytes on K-F drives, but it's up there.

what if we -- hear me out on this -- what if we organized our armies into combined arms regiments?

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Pattonesque posted:

what if we -- hear me out on this -- what if we organized our armies into combined arms regiments?

It’s super unfun to play in megamek that’s what

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled

Pattonesque posted:

what if we -- hear me out on this -- what if we organized our armies into combined arms regiments?

RCTs are the actual in-universe pushback against 'mechs being the sole dominant force in combat.

Though I can understand why military budget planners would balk at someone going "okay so every single 'mech regiment we have is going to have 3 attached armor regiments and 5 attached infantry regiments plus ancillary support, figure it out lads".

Crazy Joe Wilson
Jul 4, 2007

Justifiably Mad!

Klyith posted:

"Clans", "khans", a relatively tiny population that comes from the unknown edges of civilization and conquers vastly larger territories in the relative blink of an eye through application of superior technology1, broken by internal conflict that is much more a hindrance than external foes, mongols.

OTOH: idiotic tactics2, gigantic blindspot around "honor"3, amazingly stupid promotion system4, yeah those are klingons in a human-suit.

1 not hard to argue that horse archers were the trump "technology" of the pre-modern world... historically your best bet for beating horse archers was to wait until they conquered someone else and stopped being steppe nomads after a few generations.
2 the real mongols would laugh at clanner tactics. so hard.
3 ditto
4 oh my god ditto, Genghis's superpower was really his ability to pick and promote good subordinates from anywhere



Third hand: if you want "aliens, but homo sapiens" in real history, the mongols pretty much were that to the the people of western europe. most of the time in history, you pretty much knew your neighboring cultures. you'd play up their differences for us vs them value, but you mostly understood who they were. the mongols were a totally foreign culture to most of the people they invaded.

there's really wild sources where the mongols are basically described as the apocalypse, repent all ye sinners because the end times are here. not like, "oh they're bad guys who you should dislike". like "I just came from the Kievan Rus and everyone is dead, no, I mean everyone."

Reminds me of Genghis Khan's supposed quote to the Persian Empire.

"I am the Flail of God. God would not have sent a Scourge like me among you had you not greatly sinned."

Yeah, and the Clans are supposed to be a mishmash of the Mongols and Communist Regimes (Their economies are 100% Communism but one that works). Mongol technology actually wasn't superior compared to the people they attacked; their tactics (mobility) and ferocity were.

Kanos posted:

RCTs are the actual in-universe pushback against 'mechs being the sole dominant force in combat.

Though I can understand why military budget planners would balk at someone going "okay so every single 'mech regiment we have is going to have 3 attached armor regiments and 5 attached infantry regiments plus ancillary support, figure it out lads".

The sad thing is even when RCTs get dropped or factions that are supposed to excel at combined arms fight, the fiction still 99% of the time focuses on just the 'mechs. There's a lot of problems with Hour of the Wolf, one of the ones I would argue is the most egregious is the Republic of the Sphere, supposedly the most combined-arms focused military in the Inner Sphere, never is mentioned using artillery, power armor, or tanks, like, at all. Just BattleMechs that the Wolves and Falcons blow up.

Partially I get it, writing in infantry and tanks bogs down combat, but I think it'd make the fiction stronger overall.

Crazy Joe Wilson fucked around with this message at 14:00 on Apr 18, 2023

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Just have a Dragon round a corner and instantly get cored by a Demolisher lol

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week

Crazy Joe Wilson posted:

Mongol technology actually wasn't superior compared to the people they attacked; their tactics (mobility) and ferocity were.

"Technology is the application of knowledge for achieving practical goals in a reproducible way."

Skilled horse archery isn't just a tactic. You can't do it unless you are living that steppe nomad life. Horses and horsemanship are kinda "technology". Genghis himself knew that when steppe nomads conquered an agrarian neighbor and "settled down", they quickly lost the ability. He left specific instructions that the capital of his empire never move from Mongolia, and that his people should live on the steppe forever.

The set of techniques and skills for living off large herds on the steppe, which also happen to be the fastest military logistics system in the world until the invention of steam engines, are a form of technology.

Composite bows and lamellar armor are definitely technology, and mongol armor (chinese really, but mongols were the ones wearing it) was good enough that it influenced european armor development, not the other way around.



But also, the mongol army had greatest siege engineers in the world during the conquests. They weren't dummies, they'd lived next to people who'd been constructing fortifications against them for 1000 years. Every place they conquered they specifically went around and rounded up everyone who knew siegecraft and said "you work for us now". And they treated them well.

Stravag
Jun 7, 2009

Crazy Joe Wilson posted:

here's a lot of problems with Hour of the Wolf, one of the ones I would argue is the most egregious is the Republic of the Sphere, supposedly the most combined-arms focused military in the Inner Sphere, never is mentioned using artillery, power armor, or tanks, like, at all. Just BattleMechs that the Wolves and Falcons blow up.

Partially I get it, writing in infantry and tanks bogs down combat, but I think it'd make the fiction stronger overall.

Was that the one where an aerospace star strafed a company or battalion and made like 75% of it combat ineffective in the one pass? And also had a single ppc hit remove the armor from both legs all 3 torso locations and an arm on a timber wolf?

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
I got a Hero King Crab with 4 UACs on it, is this a worthwhile build or should I put big guns instead? 4 AC/20s won't fit.

tactlessbastard
Feb 4, 2001

Godspeed, post
Fun Shoe

Ensign Expendable posted:

I got a Hero King Crab with 4 UACs on it, is this a worthwhile build or should I put big guns instead? 4 AC/20s won't fit.

I love the 4x LBX King Crab you get in the story missions and would use it for everything except for always running out of ammo on any long mission.


Whats the most anyone ever made on one of those bonus for kills if you stay behind missions? I've never made it beyond 3.5M or so due to some combination of running out of LRMs, gauss ammo, or just getting bored waiting for respawns when I am running a laser crew.

ro5s
Dec 27, 2012

A happy little mouse!

tactlessbastard posted:

I love the 4x LBX King Crab you get in the story missions and would use it for everything except for always running out of ammo on any long mission.


Whats the most anyone ever made on one of those bonus for kills if you stay behind missions? I've never made it beyond 3.5M or so due to some combination of running out of LRMs, gauss ammo, or just getting bored waiting for respawns when I am running a laser crew.

That must've taken ages, I always get bored waiting for the new waves to spawn in - they seem to get big gaps where nothing appears once I'm in the bonus stage of a mission.

That King Crab was sort of fun but the AI also seemed to be really good at headshotting them, I lost a pilot to that and then got nailed myself piloting it too.

Floppychop
Mar 30, 2012

Ensign Expendable posted:

I got a Hero King Crab with 4 UACs on it, is this a worthwhile build or should I put big guns instead? 4 AC/20s won't fit.

That thing is crazy good. Only downside is running out of ammo.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Is it true that multi shot weapons (uac, rac, x-pulse, eg) only can hit the head once per salvo on a called shot? I can’t remember the mechanics there

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Klyith posted:

"Technology is the application of knowledge for achieving practical goals in a reproducible way."

Skilled horse archery isn't just a tactic. You can't do it unless you are living that steppe nomad life. Horses and horsemanship are kinda "technology". Genghis himself knew that when steppe nomads conquered an agrarian neighbor and "settled down", they quickly lost the ability. He left specific instructions that the capital of his empire never move from Mongolia, and that his people should live on the steppe forever.

The set of techniques and skills for living off large herds on the steppe, which also happen to be the fastest military logistics system in the world until the invention of steam engines, are a form of technology.

Composite bows and lamellar armor are definitely technology, and mongol armor (chinese really, but mongols were the ones wearing it) was good enough that it influenced european armor development, not the other way around.



But also, the mongol army had greatest siege engineers in the world during the conquests. They weren't dummies, they'd lived next to people who'd been constructing fortifications against them for 1000 years. Every place they conquered they specifically went around and rounded up everyone who knew siegecraft and said "you work for us now". And they treated them well.

I appreciated this post.

SirFozzie
Mar 28, 2004
Goombatta!

Polaron posted:

IIRC there's a category in some of the rulebooks somewhere that modern tank cannons and antitank weapons fall into.

It's "Primitive" and they do basically gently caress-all damage to a Battlemech.

There's also a XTRO: 1945 so if you want to have some Battlemechs join the Allies to storm the beaches of Normandy to (literally) Stomp some Nazis, you can. (it was an april fool's release, but real)

SirFozzie
Mar 28, 2004
Goombatta!

Captain Foo posted:

Is it true that multi shot weapons (uac, rac, x-pulse, eg) only can hit the head once per salvo on a called shot? I can’t remember the mechanics there

I think all weapons can only hit the head once per salvo (ie, per weapon), because that made SRM/LRM doorknockers too good.

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

SirFozzie posted:

I think all weapons can only hit the head once per salvo (ie, per weapon), because that made SRM/LRM doorknockers too good.

Yeah i knew it about missiles but couldn’t remember how it worked for other things

McGavin
Sep 18, 2012

In vanilla LRMs can only hit the head once per salvo. I'm not sure about SRMs, but UACs and MGs can hit multiple times.

HundredBears
Feb 14, 2012

Captain Foo posted:

Is it true that multi shot weapons (uac, rac, x-pulse, eg) only can hit the head once per salvo on a called shot? I can’t remember the mechanics there

LRMs (and any other weapon that uses the cluster mechanic, but I think they're the only one in the unmodded game) can only hit the head if the weapon's first hit strikes the head. See here for the explanation on the official forums. I seem to remember that most other multi-hit weapons have decaying benefits from called shots: the first missile/LBX pellet/whatever will have the same chance of hitting the head as a single-shot weapon would, but the weight of the head on the hit table will only be increased by half as much on the second shot, a quarter as much on the third, etc.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week

McGavin posted:

In vanilla LRMs can only hit the head once per salvo. I'm not sure about SRMs, but UACs and MGs can hit multiple times.

I'm pretty sure SRMs work too.

It's the "ClusterChanceNeverClusterHead = true" that blocks clustering weapons from head hits, and in the stock game only LRMs cluster.


Runa posted:

I appreciated this post.

Thanks!

If you'd like to real an actual historian who interrogates pop culture vs real history, lemme recommend the acoup blog. He's got a good series about steppe nomads vs GoT Dothraki, which is top notch if you enjoy seeing GRRM get poo poo on.

(As much as the Clans are dumb, at least the BT writers never made any claims for accuracy.)

Klyith fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Apr 19, 2023

IOwnCalculus
Apr 2, 2003





Captain Foo posted:

Is it true that multi shot weapons (uac, rac, x-pulse, eg) only can hit the head once per salvo on a called shot? I can’t remember the mechanics there

I don't know but I have a Jagermech with some RAC5s and it absolutely obliterates heads.

Runa
Feb 13, 2011

Klyith posted:

Thanks!

If you'd like to real an actual historian who interrogates pop culture vs real history, lemme recommend the acoup blog. He's got a good series about steppe nomads vs GoT Dothraki, which is top notch if you enjoy seeing GRRM get poo poo on.

(As much as the Clans are dumb, at least the BT writers never made any claims for accuracy.)

I appreciate this even more and I do have a soft spot for GRRM's claims to accuracy and realism getting challenged and dunked on.

E: I am not surprised a lot of GRRM's decisions on how to characterize the Dothraki ultimately boil down to regurgitating old racist tropes about Native Americans, as well as Mongols, and abandoning internal logic to do so.

Runa fucked around with this message at 11:01 on Apr 19, 2023

Marx Headroom
May 10, 2007

AT LAST! A show with nonono commercials!
Fallen Rib

Klyith posted:

He's got a good series about steppe nomads vs GoT Dothraki, which is top notch if you enjoy seeing GRRM get poo poo on.

I was just about to post this! That blog is a treasure trove. Series after series about culture and warfare from the dawn of history to modern times. I've read his articles about the logistics of moving large medieval armies, the principles of trench warfare, NATO tank doctrine, ancient cavalry tactics, etc etc etc

Floppychop
Mar 30, 2012

I'm a little bit into my first campaign with BEX, and I'm trying to figure out how to swap between cluster and solid for LBX.

In mission I've found middle mouse appears to swap between, but it shows no ammo loaded for solid. So I go to check to see if you have to manually load cluster/solid ammo when fitting and I can't find where to dictate that. The only LBX ammo I can find is just generic that doesn't specify which type it is.

edit: I found out. It's just the same sized AC ammo.

Floppychop fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Apr 21, 2023

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!
the hot dog tank in BTA fucks

Pattonesque
Jul 15, 2004
johnny jesus and the infield fly rule
highly recommend picking up one of these bad boys if you can find em

https://www.bta3062.com/index.php?title=Teppo

Easiest is in the Kuritan faction store. just an absurd amount of firepower

Kanos
Sep 6, 2006

was there a time when speedwagon didn't get trolled
Cozying up to the combine is the best. A lot of their canon 'mech designs are mediocre so you don't waste time salvaging lovely Dragons by fighting them, and they sell you infinite Apollo FCS, Teppos, and vMRMs.

Pattonesque
Jul 15, 2004
johnny jesus and the infield fly rule
also pick up one of these if you can

https://www.bta3062.com/index.php?title=Heavy_Carrier

It's like a guaranteed 400 damage on anything and it has so much utility with acid/inferno/mines

bgreman
Oct 8, 2005

ASK ME ABOUT STICKING WITH A YEARS-LONG LETS PLAY OF THE MOST COMPLICATED SPACE SIMULATION GAME INVENTED, PLAYING BOTH SIDES, AND SPENDING HOURS GOING ABOVE AND BEYOND TO ENSURE INTERNET STRANGERS ENJOY THEMSELVES
After buying this the day it came out, I finally beat the campaign this week. I'd had a save file on the final battle for a long time, and every now and then I'd load it up, die, and rage quit for another couple years.

I tried again the other night, and managed to kill the final boss but on the very next turn one of the remaining bad guys killed Kamea. Tried again two days later and finally got it.

Is it worthwhile playing the flash points in this post campaign state or would it be better to experience them playing a new career mode? I feel like having a fully kitted out assault lance might make things a little weird.

Amechwarrior
Jan 29, 2007

bgreman posted:

After buying this the day it came out, I finally beat the campaign this week. I'd had a save file on the final battle for a long time, and every now and then I'd load it up, die, and rage quit for another couple years.

I tried again the other night, and managed to kill the final boss but on the very next turn one of the remaining bad guys killed Kamea. Tried again two days later and finally got it.

Is it worthwhile playing the flash points in this post campaign state or would it be better to experience them playing a new career mode? I feel like having a fully kitted out assault lance might make things a little weird.

It depends. If you're going to do the high difficulty FPs and the Alliance ones, you'll be fine with the existing save. By default the FPs spawn at random, with no regard to difficulty or your progression. My Flashpoint Spawn Adjustments mod fixes that so the easier ones have a better chance of appearing first, so there's a sense of progression as you build up your company if you make a new save.

GD_American
Jul 21, 2004

LISTEN TO WHAT I HAVE TO SAY AS IT'S INCREDIBLY IMPORTANT!
This bastard right here is the most efficient hole-puncher I've found yet.

https://www.bta3062.com/index.php?title=Marauder_II_Omni#MAD-LJP-O

Heavy gauss makes a hole, 12 LBX-5 shots make it way bigger

Ensign Expendable
Nov 11, 2008

Lager beer is proof that god loves us
Pillbug
Update on the 4x UAC5 King Crab: it rules. Easily the most fun mech in the game after the Hero Blackjack. I do 3000+ damage per mission with it regularly. It helps that I threw out all the secondary weapons and replaced them with the biggest possible engine plus supercharger.

Gwaihir
Dec 8, 2009
Hair Elf

bgreman posted:

After buying this the day it came out, I finally beat the campaign this week. I'd had a save file on the final battle for a long time, and every now and then I'd load it up, die, and rage quit for another couple years.

I tried again the other night, and managed to kill the final boss but on the very next turn one of the remaining bad guys killed Kamea. Tried again two days later and finally got it.

Is it worthwhile playing the flash points in this post campaign state or would it be better to experience them playing a new career mode? I feel like having a fully kitted out assault lance might make things a little weird.

A lot of the flashpoints are designed for lower tonnage lances than the typical endgame assault crew, so doing them with your existing save will just feel kinda pointless. There are plenty of endgame max level ones too that you could do now though.

One thing that might help out if you had such trouble with the final mission is if you posted the mechs you were using- There's nothing we love more ITT than tweaking and rebuilding mech designs, and that can make a huge difference.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week

Gwaihir posted:

There are plenty of endgame max level ones too that you could do now though.

Eh, doesn't the flashpoint system give you low star ones at first? That's how it seemed to me, but flashpoints are the thing I've done the least digging into the code mechanics. Though I suppose at the end of the campaign you probably have a stupid amount of money, so you could just press fast-forward for 6 months until you see the high star FPs.

Also the max level end-game ones are for the faction alliances, but playing the campaign you probably end with no rep for any of the 5 majors.


Personally I think it's better to start a new career mode game, but that depends on how much more game you want. If someone just wants a dozen or so more missions playing some flashpoints post-campaign is more reasonable. Also I'm very biased to the early and mid-game more than the all-assaults end game.

Pattonesque
Jul 15, 2004
johnny jesus and the infield fly rule
Flashpoints in BTA also have the OpFor drawn from the expanded list so sometimes you get some real fuckers

very apparent in the campaign one where Kamea nicks four SLDF mechs -- the first wave you face is way more advanced so you get mauled more

Pattonesque
Jul 15, 2004
johnny jesus and the infield fly rule
Battle Armor is a lot of fun in BTA once you get a good VTOL and a 10-rated pilot to ferry it around. Find an isolated assault in the back somewhere, mount it, free salvage

Mile'ionaha
Nov 2, 2004

I played BT back when it came out, enjoyed it.

Fired up BTA today and, uh...

I guess my career is over due to bugs, on the 2nd mission.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Mile'ionaha posted:

I played BT back when it came out, enjoyed it.

Fired up BTA today and, uh...

I guess my career is over due to bugs, on the 2nd mission.



huh, i'm a few dozen hours into a BTA campaign and haven't seen anything remotely like that

e- i do see 16.1 came out either today or yesterday and I haven't run that yet so not sure if that's the issue

ro5s
Dec 27, 2012

A happy little mouse!

I picked up BTA and I'm liking it so far. I got the popup for putting the campaign mission in and though why not, then went to do the 1st one. The very last guy decided to suicide DFA Kamea, knocked out her XL engine and lost me the mission :negative:

E: I got through it second time and now it’s just stuck on the Argo sitting in space, no ui, I guess I’ll skip the campaign missions :v:

ro5s fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Apr 25, 2023

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Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

Right now in bta i have a marauder with three binary lasers and a precision pilot and makes a p good sniper. Earlier in the game i had an improved binary laser which was disgusting but it got blown up and i don’t know where i got it from

E: also do not sleep on lrm carriers as friendly fire support. 3x ArtIV LRM20 is nothing to sneeze at and even a rookie tanker can rack up kills in a hurry

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