Ukraine War: "20 months of war for a used car."

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Ukraine War: "20 months of war for a used car."

(Thread IKs: weg, Toxic Mental)

Lammasu: May 8, 2019; lawful Good Monster

Strategic Tea posted:

Orcs have the moral benefit of having been created by a spirit of elemental evil. Wagner SS are just people entertaining themselves between now and retirement. They bear more culpability for not being beep boop monsters, not less.

Also, orcs are good at war. Wagner couldn't beat a grove of dryads.

# ? Apr 18, 2023 20:30

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# ? May 31, 2024 03:19

Shaman Tank Spec: Dec 26, 2003; *blep*

bad_fmr posted:

Yeah you think but in concept of fairness the Finns would have to make do with the classic sissi rations. I very much doubt the legendary kinkkupasta banaanilla would work in the way you hope.

Sometimes you get makkaraperunat, sometimes you get kinkkupasta banaanilla. That's life in a nutshell.

# ? Apr 18, 2023 20:45

Set: Oct 30, 2005

The Russian Federation has kidnapped countless children from the occupied Ukrainian territories, a war crime. There are however organizations working diligently at reuniting these abducted children with their relatives back in Ukraine. They are heroes.

I present here two translated articles from Yle. Content warning for news agency webpage, the articles themselves do not contain anything shocking beyond the revelations in them, but I can not guarantee that clicking further does not lead to current news that may be shocking to some viewers. Click further at your own risk. There are links to further reading within the original articles, many of them in English, and the same disclaimers as mentioned before are true there as well. I still recommend clicking through to view the images of the reunited families.

Author: Paula Tapiola
Release date: 09.04.23
Link to untranslated article: https://yle.fi/a/74-20026390

quote:

More than 30 children abducted to Russia were returned to Ukraine - Dasha says that she was promised a short summer camp, but it stretched for six months

Ukrainian authorities estimate that up to 19,500 children have been abducted from the country since the Russian invasion.

Description of video contents: We can see children walking across what looks like a border crossing, and hugging family members on the other side. The text explains that 30 kidnapped Ukrainian children were returned to their families. Images of crying children and parents. The text describes that the occupiers had promised a short summer camp for Dasha and Alyone, a pair of twins from Kherson. The summer camp stay was however extended. The twins say in their interview that they were shocked, and called their mother who came to get them. The Russian management said they twins would be adopted to Russia. The mother Natalia Rakk travelled along with a Ukrainian rescue organization to Russia to pick up her children. The journey led them through Poland, Belorussia, Moscow and finally Crimea. The children met their mother for the first time in six months. The mother says in an interview that it was a very emotional moment, and everyone cried. She is glad that their ordeal is almost over, as they are already in Ukraine during the interview, and soon they will be back home. The video ends on footage of happy children.

Ukraine has managed to return 31 children abducted to Russia from the occupied territories back to Ukraine. Some of the children met their parents for the first time in six months.

- It was very emotional. All of us mothers and children cried. All that stress... Thank god this is almost over. We are already in Ukraine and soon at home, Natalia Rakk told news agency Reuters.

Reuters interviewed Natalia Rakk when she had just arrived with her children across the border from Belarus back to Ukraine. From there, the journey continued by bus to Kyiv.

She had traveled with the rescue organization Save Ukraine and other mothers to get children back to Ukraine. The journey went through Poland and Belarus first to Moscow and then to the Crimean peninsula.

- The journey was difficult, but we continued it. We didn't sleep at night, sometimes we fell asleep from our seats. We rarely stopped. We just wanted to pick up the children, Natalia Rakk explains.

"We saw mother for the first time in six months"

Natalia Rakk brought her twin daughters, Dasha and Alyona, from Russia. They are 13 years old.

- We are very happy. We saw our mother for the first time in six months, Dasha Rakk told Reuters.

The Russian occupiers promised Dasha and Alyona a short summer camp on the Crimean peninsula away from the war. There, the girls were informed that the camp had been extended.

- When they told us that we have to stay there for a longer time, we all started to cry, Dasha explains.

- None of us could believe it. I didn't believe it, but it was true. We called our mother, but we couldn't do anything, Alyona continues.

"They said we would be adopted"

Ukrainian authorities estimate that up to 19,500 children have been abducted from the country since the Russian invasion. Children have been taken from orphanages, but also directly from their parents.

Yle has reported on child abductions before.

Read the whole story here: Photographic evidence shows how Russia steals Ukrainian children. (link to an article I translated earlier here:https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?noseen=1&threadid=4016636&pagenumber=393&perpage=40#post529759543)

- They told us that we would be adopted, that we would get guardians, Dasha Rakk tells about her experiences in Crimea.

According to the rescue organization Save Ukraine, children were successfully returned from Russia for the fifth time. However, not all children taken to the Crimean camp were included.

- My heart broke when I looked at the children left behind the fence who were crying, says Natalia Rakk.

The rescued children were from Kherson and Kharkiv

The director of Save Ukraine, Mykola Kuleba, told in a press conference in Kyiv that the operation was special because so many children were returned.

The returned children were from the Russian-occupied regions of Kherson and Kharkiv, and no one in Russia was looking for their parents.

- There are children in the group who were in five different places during five months. Some of the children say they lived among rats and cockroaches, Kuleba said.

In mid-March, the International Criminal Court (ICC) issued arrest warrants for President Vladimir Putin and Russian Children's Commissioner Marija Lvova-Belova.

They are accused of kidnapping Ukrainian children. In practice, they are implemented by Lvova-Belova.

Lvova-Belova claimed at an informal meeting of the UN Security Council on Wednesday that Russia is not abducting children, but taking them to safety. Children and their parents disagree.

Author: Pauli Lahti
Release date: 15.04.23
Link to untranslated article: https://yle.fi/a/74-20027128

quote:

Home at last

Teenager Vitali Vertash was supposed to go to a dream camp in Crimea for two weeks. It lasted half a year, and during that time he and the other campers were forcibly Russianized.

KYIV It all started with an attractive offer. Vitali Vertash, 16, could go to a two-week camp in the Crimean peninsula.

The principal brought the good news that their school in Kherson would be closed for two weeks, and the schoolchildren would be able to relax at a camp on the shores of the Black Sea.

It was October 2022, and the children could forget about the constant bombing for a while and focus on swimming and playing.

The arrangements were in a rush. Passports and the necessary documents had to be taken with you the next morning, as the bus to the Crimean peninsula would leave at five in the morning.

Mother Inessa Vertash remembers being surprised at the hasty departure, but the possibility of getting the teenager away from the middle of the war, even for a little while, was attractive. Vitali packed his bag without hesitation.

The bus left. But two weeks stretched into almost half a year, and after the beginning the children practically had no chance to keep in touch with their families, let alone get home.

Russia's large-scale operation to abduct Ukrainian children has been revealed during the past winter. According to its own words, Ukraine has been able to identify 16,500 children that Russia has kidnapped over to its own soil. 300 of them have been successfully returned to their homes.

Yle revealed in February that Russia has also brought kidnapped Ukrainian children right near the Finnish border.

The International Criminal Court (ICC) found the numbers presented by Ukraine to be credible and issued an arrest warrant for Russian President Vladimir Putin and Russian Children's Commissioner Marija Lvova-Belova in March.

The president of the European Commission, Ursula von der Leyen, tweeted that "kidnapping children is a war crime".

https://twitter.com/vonderleyen/status/1639007530197327872

Vitali and his classmates are among the children abducted by the Russians, and throughout the six-month abduction, the Russians tried to forcibly Russianize Vitali and the other children they abducted with him.

Yle cannot verify the details of Vitali's story, but the Save Ukraine aid organization confirms the boy's story. The organization also has information on other similar fates of abducted children.

Vitali's story has also been featured in other media, such as the Spanish newspaper El Pais.

Description of video contents: Vitali is being interviewed. He says that every morning started with the Russian anthem being played through loudspeakers. During lesson time they were told that Ukraine is full of terrorists. Finally they were told that Ukraine had abandoned them, and that nobody misses them.

The family together

We meet the Vertash family in a cheap hotel on the outskirts of Kyiv in April. A serious and smart-looking boy meets us in the lower entrance hall.

The family moved to Kyiv a couple of weeks ago, around the same time as Vitali was released. Life in Kherson in the middle of the bombings became difficult, when the water and electricity were still cut off from the household.

One room in this modest hotel now serves as a home for six people.

Honey pot names for the camps

Today we have an opportunity to visit the center of Kyiv, and Vitali and Inessa's mother will go there with us. They are now visiting the sights of their own country's capital for the first time.

On the way, Vitali tells his nightmarish story.

The Crimean summer camp was called Dreams, and in the beginning it lived up to its name. The first two weeks went well. The children were able to go on the promised swimming trips regularly.

But Dreams was followed by a camp called Friendship. That was not supposed to be part of the program.

Description of video contents: Vitali continues his interview. He says that guards would put them into solitary confinement in a cellar, because they weren't supposed to listen to the Ukrainian anthem. They were there for four days, and were only fed during the evenings.

There, the terrifying truth about the Russians' arrangements was revealed to the children. The Russian national anthem plays from the loudspeakers every morning.

- Lessons were organized for us in which we were told that there are terrorists and Nazis in Ukraine. They said President Zelensky was a drug addict, Vitali says.

In the new camp, connections to home were almost completely cut off. The camp staff took the Ukrainian SIM cards from the students' cell phones.

That's when Vitali also realized why the camp was surrounded by a barbed wire fence. The camp management wanted to keep the children in the camp at any cost.

The going became more and more brutal.

- In class, we were told that we would be taken to Russia, because no one in Ukraine cares about us. They also said that our own parents have abandoned us.

The youngest campers were five years old.

From disobedience to solitary confinement

At some point, life in the camp started to feel overwhelming for Vitali.

- I started to believe that I would never get home again. I was afraid that I would be taken to Russia. That would have been the end of everything, Vitali recalls now, serious next to his mother.

Vitali finally tried to escape from the camp with his comrade. They were caught.

When Vitali secretly listened to the Ukrainian national anthem after the escape attempt, the physical punishments began.

- We were taken to a special cell in the basement for four days. We only got food in the evenings.

According to Vitali, at least two students were beaten with sticks. The caning came as a punishment when one refused to sing the occupier's national anthem and the other uttered the forbidden words Slava Ukraini!, meaning glory to Ukraine.

According to Vitali, the children who were already pro-Russia got in easier. They got better food than others and lived in different premises.

- They had renovated rooms. We didn't even have beds or proper bedding, we slept on dirty mattresses on the concrete floor.

Vitali remains silent and then adds:

- We were treated like animals, dogs.

The mother blamed herself

Sometimes, rarely, one of the children managed to contact their home, as did Vitalik. He wanted to spare his parents and did not tell about all the horrors in the phone calls.

So Inessa's mother was not aware of what her son had to go through in Crimea, but she could guess.

- I cried every day and every night for the whole six months, says Inessa Vertash.

She says that she won't forget one of Vitali's last phone calls from the camp.

- Mother, this is not a camp. This is a concentration camp! Vitali had cried out.

Inessa Vertash pressured the principal who organized the trip without a break. But he didn't listen to the concerns and stated that the children were lying about the conditions of the camp in order to get home.

The headmaster also said that he had been to the camp and was able to prove with his own eyes that the children's talk was baseless.

- I visited the principal many times every day. I was furious and used language I never thought I was capable of.

Vertash says that she told the principal, for example, that she would flay him alive if something happened to the boy.

For a long time, the principal did not take responsibility for sending the children to the camp. The Russians withdrew from Kherson in November, just one month after the children had been sent to Crimea.

The principal left with the Russians.

In March 2023, Vitali Vertash's ordeal was finally over. The unyielding mother and the Save Ukraine organization got Vitali and 14 other students back to their home country.

- I was so happy when we crossed the border. Now I just try to forget everything that happened. I no longer have to wake up in the morning to the Russian national anthem, Vitali says.

The Save Ukraine organization tells Yle via email that no ransom money is paid for the freed children, and the organization does not negotiate with Russia. The operation is based on voluntary helpers.

The organization does not reveal its exact operating methods, but says that it costs at least $1,500 to get one child home. Bus trips, hotel stays, meals and other practical arrangements are mandatory expenses.

According to its own words, the organization has managed to rescue 95 children kidnapped by the Russians in a total of five operations. The organization is aware of at least seven Russian settlements that still have children kidnapped by the Russians.

The children have been picked up from Crimea by traveling through Belarus and Russia. The parents or other relatives of the abducted child travel on the organization's bus and return home to Ukraine with the child.

Return home?

Mother and son look at the sights of the capital city of Kyiv and take pictures of each other. The teenager is not ashamed to walk next to his mother. After a long separation, it seems to be good to be together.

Vitali gets a hotdog from the street grill, and for the first time a smile appears on the boy's face.

When the war ends, the Vertash's plan to return to their home in Kherson. There are their friends and relatives, there are their roots.

Still, it may not be an easy return home. The school where Vitali's childhood ended is also located in Kherson.

Set fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Apr 18, 2023

# ? Apr 18, 2023 20:49

zone: Dec 6, 2016

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gstb2pdoIpA

New intercepts dropped. First one is a call from a mobik in the occupied Kharkiv region who slowly came to the realization that maybe he was fooled into fighting an unjust war for Putler's ambitions. But what he doesn't get that if not for Russian help, there wouldn't have been a civil war in the Donbass in the first place. The people just weren't interested until Strelkov and friends came along to kick it off, as one might remember from the other intercept of a high ranking officer-collaborator in the separatist forces who was responsible for attempting local organization of subversive elements. The second intercept was caught in early March of this year, and details a Russian soldier talking to his wife from the Luhansk region. He complains that incompetent officers get promotions on the backs of the suffering of the common soldiery, and then details a fairly brutal system with which the Russian military provides medical treatment to the wounded. Apparently there are so many badly wounded being brought to the hospitals in the rear, that unless you have absolutely life threatening injuries like brain injuries, you'll simply be forced to wait for days at a time until you're actually seen to, which results in a large number of amputations as the wounded limbs are by then beyond salvage.

:nms:

for description of casualties mostly in the second one.

# ? Apr 18, 2023 21:11

armpit_enjoyer: Jan 25, 2023; my god. it's full of posts

Today I learned that kidnapping children is listed in the Genocide Convention as an act of genocide. Like, no poo poo, right? I never bothered to read the thing until today.

Were there ever any prosecutions litigated over this particular point?

# ? Apr 18, 2023 21:29

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

armpit_enjoyer posted:

Today I learned that kidnapping children is listed in the Genocide Convention as an act of genocide. Like, no poo poo, right? I never bothered to read the thing until today.

Were there ever any prosecutions litigated over this particular point?

yeah the 8th nuremburg trial dealt with it and resulted in this being considered genocide to begin with

content warning: talks about awful poo poo the nazis did to kids by kidnapping them, pretty awful to read about!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_children_by_Nazi_Germany

HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Apr 18, 2023

# ? Apr 18, 2023 21:33

Von Pluring: Sep 19, 2003; Zelensky's Zealots; Pork Pro

Tai posted:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65315083

Abolut vodka backed down and banned exports again because the Swedes didn't like that.

They should be boycotted for even considering it. gently caress 'em.

# ? Apr 18, 2023 21:33

Dwesa: Jul 19, 2016; Maybe I'll go where I can see stars

Pablo Bluth posted:

Ukraine don't stand a chance.

https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1648385293387460609

now cover it in Kontakt-1 blocks

# ? Apr 18, 2023 21:34

Drone_Fragger: May 9, 2007

armpit_enjoyer posted:

Today I learned that kidnapping children is listed in the Genocide Convention as an act of genocide. Like, no poo poo, right? I never bothered to read the thing until today.

Were there ever any prosecutions litigated over this particular point?

Its why there's arrest warrants for putin and uh, whoever the chief of kidnapping children is at the ICC, but seema unlikely theyll ever get there.

# ? Apr 18, 2023 21:36

armpit_enjoyer: Jan 25, 2023; my god. it's full of posts

Yeah I meant specifically cases that were actually brought to trial. Keeping my fingers crossed Putin gets to see his day in court, too.

e: christ, you weren't kidding about that Wikipedia article.

"When Allied effort to identify such children ceased, 13,517 inquiries were still open, and it was clear that German authorities would not be returning them."

loving bleak

armpit_enjoyer fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Apr 18, 2023

# ? Apr 18, 2023 21:41

zone: Dec 6, 2016

Drone_Fragger posted:

Its why there's arrest warrants for putin and uh, whoever the chief of kidnapping children is at the ICC, but seema unlikely theyll ever get there.

Maria Lvova-Belova is the other one, the child rights commissioner of Russia

# ? Apr 18, 2023 21:41

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

armpit_enjoyer posted:

Yeah I meant specifically cases that were actually brought to trial. Keeping my fingers crossed Putin gets to see his day in court, too.

content warning: talks about awful poo poo the nazis did to kids by kidnapping them, pretty awful to read about!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RuSHA_trial

That's the big one

quote:

Indictment

1. Crimes against humanity in furtherance of "racial purity" programmes by kidnapping children, encouraging or compelling "non-Aryan" pregnant women to undergo abortions, providing abortion services and removing cases of abortion from the jurisdiction of Polish courts; plundering, deportation of populations from their native lands in occupied countries and resettling of so-called "ethnic Germans" (Volksdeutsche) on such lands, sending people who had had "interracial" sexual relationships to concentration camps, and general participation in the persecution of Jews.

2. War crimes for the same reasons.

3. Membership of a criminal organization, the SS.

HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Apr 18, 2023

# ? Apr 18, 2023 21:42

Telsa Cola: Aug 19, 2011; No... this is all wrong... this whole operation has just gone completely sidewaysface

armpit_enjoyer posted:

Today I learned that kidnapping children is listed in the Genocide Convention as an act of genocide. Like, no poo poo, right? I never bothered to read the thing until today.

Were there ever any prosecutions litigated over this particular point?

It's possible that Native American groups also litigated over that point given the forced boarding school system.

# ? Apr 18, 2023 21:48

Toxic Mental: Jun 1, 2019

Putin's administration: We must de-Nazify Ukraine and save these children. It's not kidnapping.

Literal Nazis:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensborn

# ? Apr 18, 2023 21:51

DiomedesGodshill: Feb 21, 2009

HonorableTB posted:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/18/europe/wagner-ukraine-civilian-deaths-intl/index.html

Wagner guy who said he killed children recants and says he was blackmailed lol

�Get in touch with the Wagner PMC call center, come, tell us everything. I guarantee that you will leave safe and sound,� he [Prigozhin] added.

Sounds legit to me. Also LOL at the thought of the Wagner PMC having a call center. That's gotta be a surreal job. I wonder what the inside of the call center looks like since the outside of the building looks like a giant glass toilet. I wonder what the cafeteria looks like.

# ? Apr 18, 2023 21:57

EasilyConfused: Nov 21, 2009; one strong toad

Pot Smoke Phoenix posted:

I think it's very possible that a lot of the earlier viruses that permeated cyberspace may very well have captured kompromat on pretty much anyone in power today

Doubtful, I'd expect to see some folks acting out of character if this were widespread. I don't think the behavior of Macron or Scholz (or whoever) is surprising.

Drone_Fragger posted:

Its why there's arrest warrants for putin and uh, whoever the chief of kidnapping children is at the ICC, but seema unlikely theyll ever get there.

The ICC's Chief of Kidnapping Children.

You've just invented a new Qanon conspiracy!

# ? Apr 18, 2023 22:06

the popes toes: Oct 10, 2004

EasilyConfused posted:

The ICC's Chief of Kidnapping Children.

You've just invented a new Qanon conspiracy!

There's a reason those roaming white vans in Walmart parking lots don't have UN stenciled on the side.

# ? Apr 18, 2023 22:12

spankmeister: Jun 15, 2008

DiomedesGodshill posted:

�Get in touch with the Wagner PMC call center, come, tell us everything. I guarantee that you will leave safe and sound,� he [Prigozhin] added.

Sounds legit to me. Also LOL at the thought of the Wagner PMC having a call center. That's gotta be a surreal job. I wonder what the inside of the call center looks like since the outside of the building looks like a giant glass toilet. I wonder what the cafeteria looks like.

There's a video of Prigozhin taking calls in the recruitment center. It's pretty low tech, just a bunch of dudes with cell phones. I tried to find it but I'm having no luck.

# ? Apr 18, 2023 22:14

Karate Bastard: Jul 31, 2007; Soiled Meat

A tremendous dipshit posted:

Pernod Ricard has now announced they have stopped Absolut Vodka exports again, in order to protect their staff and partners from criticism.

It said it was exercising its "duty of care towards our employees and partners, we cannot expose them to massive criticism in all forms".

oh no, not criticism in all forms

Get hosed you genocide celebrators.

# ? Apr 18, 2023 22:20

zone: Dec 6, 2016

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...=uverify%20wall

quote:

China�s defense minister congratulated Russian President Vladimir Putin for �promoting world peace,� underscoring the warm relations between the two nations more than a year after Moscow�s invasion of Ukraine sparked Europe�s biggest conflict since World War II.

A clip posted on the Chinese company NetEase Inc.�s short-video platform appears to show Li Shangfu reading prepared remarks in a meeting with Putin and Li�s Russian counterpart on Sunday.

Calling Putin �an extraordinary state leader,� Li cited his �important contributions to promoting world peace and development.�

The comments highlighted the contrast between Beijing�s approach to the Kremlin leader - who�s wanted by the International Criminal Court for alleged war crimes - and that of the US and its allies, which have hit Russia with sweeping sanctions and sought to isolate Putin over a war that�s killed tens of thousands and displaced millions.

# ? Apr 18, 2023 22:23

Karate Bastard: Jul 31, 2007; Soiled Meat

And you too. Get hosed.

# ? Apr 18, 2023 22:28

GundamHealer: Jul 23, 2022

�The Russians are promoting world peace, because if they get what they want there will be no one left in the world, and therefore, no more wars.�

# ? Apr 18, 2023 22:37

Karate Bastard: Jul 31, 2007; Soiled Meat

aka the plot to famous 2002 Chinese movie "Hero" lmaonot

# ? Apr 18, 2023 22:53

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-739488

Lavrov: Russia wants conflict in Ukraine to end as soon as possible posted:

Russia has repeatedly said that any settlement of the conflict must acknowledge the "realities" of its unilateral annexation of four Ukrainian provinces, which its armed forces partly control.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Monday during a visit to Brazil that Moscow wanted the conflict in Ukraine to end as soon as possible.

At a news conference with his Brazilian counterpart Mauro Vieira, Lavrov thanked Brazil for its "understanding of the genesis of the situation in Ukraine" and said Russia had "an interest" in the conflict ending as soon as possible.

Russia has repeatedly said that any settlement of the conflict must acknowledge the "realities" of its unilateral annexation of four Ukrainian provinces, which its armed forces partly control.

Russia says it was forced to intervene in Ukraine in February last year to defend Russian speakers from persecution and to prevent the West using Ukraine to threaten Russia's security.

Kyiv and the West say these are baseless pretexts for a war of conquest in which thousands have been killed and Ukrainian cities have been devastated.

if only there was something russia could do to end the war instantly and immediately :thunk:

Also 4 Americans got charged with helping the Kremlin and pushing propaganda:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/04/18/russian-influence-florida-missouri/

WaPo posted:

Federal authorities charged four Americans on Tuesday with roles in a malign campaign pushing pro-Kremlin propaganda in Florida and Missouri � expanding a previous case that charged a Russian operative with running illegal influence agents within the United States.

The FBI signaled its interest in the alleged activities in a series of raids last summer, at which point authorities charged a Moscow man, Aleksandr Viktorovich Ionov, with working for years on behalf of Russian government officials to fund and direct fringe political groups in the United States. Among other things, Ionov allegedly advised the political campaigns of two unidentified candidates for public office in Florida.

Ionov�s influence efforts were allegedly directed and supervised by officers of the FSB, a Russian government intelligence service.

Now, authorities have added charges against four Americans who allegedly did Ionov�s bidding through groups including the African People�s Socialist Party and the Uhuru Movement in Florida, Black Hammer in Georgia, and an unidentified political group in California � part of an effort to influence American politics.

Authorities said Ionov sought to use the groups to promote Russia�s occupation of part of Ukraine, and the eventual invasion of that country in 2022.

The charged Americans are African People�s Socialist Party leaders Omali Yeshitela, Penny Joanne Hess, Jesse Nevel and Augustus C. Romain Jr., all of whom reside or used to reside in St. Petersburg, Fla.

�Russia�s foreign intelligence service allegedly weaponized our First Amendment rights � freedoms Russia denies its own citizens � to divide Americans and interfere in elections in the United States,� Assistant Attorney General Matthew G. Olsen said in a written statement. The Justice Department, he said, �will not hesitate to expose and prosecute those who sow discord and corrupt U.S. elections in service of hostile foreign interests, regardless of whether the culprits are U.S. citizens or foreign individuals abroad.�

The charges filed in federal court in Tampa accuse Ionov of running the Anti-Globalization Movement of Russia, which U.S. officials say is funded by the Russian government and directed by FSB officers Aleksey Borisovich Sukhodolov and Yegor Sergeyevich Popov.

The three Russians and four Americans are charged with conspiring to have U.S. citizens act as illegal, unregistered agents of the Russian government.

The Russian embassy did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

When the FBI searched the homes and offices of some of the suspects last year, a member of the group said they were being targeted �because of our relationship with forces internationally who support the anti-colonial struggle,� adding that the group was being used �in a propaganda war against Russia.�

Separately Tuesday, the Justice Department filed another Russian influence case in the nation�s capital, accusing Natalia Burlinova, a Russian citizen, of conspiring with the FSB to recruit U.S. academics and researchers to travel to Russia as part of a public diplomacy program called Meeting Russia. The program, authorities say, was funded by the Russian government and designed to promote Russian national interests.

Burlinova is accused of helping the FSB gather information on Americans without registering her work on behalf of the Russian government.

�The defendant is accused of subverting our foreign agent notification laws to promote Russian national interests here in the United States, concealing from the public that her recruitment efforts were funded by a Russian security service,� said U.S. Attorney Matthew M. Graves in a written statement.

https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/us-citizens-and-russian-intelligence-officers-charged-conspiring-use-us-citizens-illegal

Department of Justice posted:

A federal grand jury in Tampa, Florida, returned a superseding indictment charging four U.S. citizens and three Russian nationals with working on behalf of the Russian government and in conjunction with the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) to conduct a multi-year foreign malign influence campaign in the United States. Among other conduct, the superseding indictment alleges that the Russian defendants recruited, funded and directed U.S. political groups to act as unregistered illegal agents of the Russian government and sow discord and spread pro-Russian propaganda

HonorableTB fucked around with this message at 23:05 on Apr 18, 2023

# ? Apr 18, 2023 23:02

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

Making another post to lol at Girkin who is quite a real sour pickle today

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1648273902823505921?s=20

mods change my name to "meat assaults" tia

# ? Apr 18, 2023 23:07

zone: Dec 6, 2016

According to half the Russia simps and their useful idiots on twitter, Mr Pickles should be ignored because "he gets nothing right" and "has no access to classified information" despite, you know, being more or less correct in his assessments on the pace of the war most of the time. They also like calling him "jealous" a lot because he was pushed away from any position of real influence.

# ? Apr 18, 2023 23:10

appropriatemetaphor: Jan 26, 2006

of course they live in saint petersburg lol

# ? Apr 18, 2023 23:13

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

The Pentagon confirmed the first Bradleys are in Ukraine :getin:

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3697671-pentagon-confirms-first-bradley-ifvs-already-in-ukraine.html

# ? Apr 18, 2023 23:18

Pekinduck: May 10, 2008

Disco Pope posted:

Is it a translation issue, or does every one of these really follow the pattern of "what if, hypothetically, in a scenario one might conjure, whereby the use of weapons was permitted, say nuclear weapons, which we should use if necessary, hypothetically, and if the conditions were met whereby..."

It's like reading a 90s Warhammer rule.

Its a propaganda thing, if there's a name for it i don't know. You see it when a politician says something "controversial" in the USA or anywhere. The verbatim line they say is never "X should be exterminated" its something like "you know with everything thats been going on, I can imagine some people want X to be exterminated" if they want they can issue an apology or whatever but they got their point across to their base. But, when someone later argues "im not voting for him, he said X should be exterminated", pea-brains can scream "HE NEVER SAID THAT"

Many abusive people also pick up this trick.

# ? Apr 18, 2023 23:24

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

Pekinduck posted:

Its a propaganda thing, if there's a name for it i don't know. You see it when a politician says something "controversial" in the USA or anywhere. The verbatim line they say is never "X should be exterminated" its something like "you know with everything thats been going on, I can imagine some people want X to be exterminated" if they want they can issue an apology or whatever but they got their point across to their base. But, when someone later argues "im not voting for him, he said X should be exterminated", pea-brains can scream "HE NEVER SAID THAT"

Many abusive people also pick up this trick.

it's called plausible deniability/implicature:

https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/abs/language-in-the-trump-era/plausible-deniability/C6E9FDA943235621C4E66D0B1C212E09

quote:

Plausible deniability is a common feature of political discourse that allows speakers to avoid taking responsibility for a controversial utterance by invoking possible counter-interpretations. To engage in plausible deniability, Trump invokes seemingly reasonable evidence to contest or refute that he meant what he said, foregrounding only select elements of the meaning-making process while downplaying others. Trump�s use of plausible deniability allows him to rally his base while feigning innocence when confronted about controversial remarks. Although common to politics, Trumpian discourse pushes this language game to the limits of credulity through frequent acts of strategic denying that arouse both supporters and critics. This chapter analyzes the way Trump and his allies engage in plausible deniability through the examination of several high-profile cases, introducing the linguistic concept of �implicature� to shed light on the discursive moves and interpretive processes that underlie attempts to invoke plausible deniability. Key to deconstructing each of these examples is an anthropological understanding of the interactional context in which political remarks are spoken and understood.

# ? Apr 18, 2023 23:27

Drone_Fragger: May 9, 2007

HonorableTB posted:

The Pentagon confirmed the first Bradleys are in Ukraine

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3697671-pentagon-confirms-first-bradley-ifvs-already-in-ukraine.html

At least the US military budget, for once, has been spent on a worthwhile cause rather than bombing wedding parties or funerals I guess.

# ? Apr 18, 2023 23:28

zone: Dec 6, 2016

Drone_Fragger posted:

At least the US military budget, for once, has been spent on a worthwhile cause rather than bombing wedding parties or funerals I guess.

"But have you considered that by providing weapons to Ukraine to resist the great Russian Bear, they only prolonged their suffering and led to many tens of thousands of people dying that might otherwise have lived? America Bad. I am very smart." - some useful idiot, maybe.

# ? Apr 18, 2023 23:35

HonorableTB: Dec 22, 2006

zone posted:

"But have you considered that by providing weapons to Ukraine to resist the great Russian Bear, they only prolonged their suffering and led to many tens of thousands of people dying that might otherwise have lived? America Bad. I am very smart." - some useful idiot, maybe.

About that..

Standard content warnings for war content below, shouldn't be any gore or anything.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/04/18/7398307/

quote:

Ukrainian defenders kill about 500 Russian soldiers and destroy 11 armoured combat vehicles and 6 UAVs in one day

https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3697343-ukrainian-troops-stop-offensive-attempt-forcing-russians-to-flee-in-kupyansk-direction.html

quote:

Ukrainians stop offensive attempt, force Russians to flee in the Kupyansk direction

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/04/18/wagner-graveyard-for-ukraine-war-dead-discovered-in-siberia-a80867

quote:

Wagner Graveyard for Ukraine War Dead Discovered in Siberia

A graveyard containing scores of dead fighters from Russia�s Wagner mercenary outfit has been discovered in the Siberian region of Irkutsk, according to a report published by the independent news outlet People of Baikal.

The previously unreported 53 graves are in a corner of Aleksandrovsky cemetery some 11 kilometers from regional capital Irkutsk.

Each grave was covered with green spruce branches and two wreaths: one in the colors of the Russian tricolor, the other in the colors of the Wager emblem with a label reading: "Blood. Honor. Motherland. Courage. PMC Wagner."

While there are no official figures for the number of Wagner fighters � which include those recruited from Russian prisons � killed in Ukraine, thousands are believed to have died at the front, particularly around the heavily-contested city of Bakhmut where Wagner troops have played a prominent role.

The existence of several other special Wagner cemeteries has come to light since the start of the Ukraine War.

Work was ongoing on dozens more graves when People of Baikal journalists visited the Irkutsk site recently.

Since the earth in Irkutsk is still frozen, workers reportedly build fires to thaw the ground and cover pits with metal sheets for retaining more heat, from which smoke rises.

At least 43 of the 53 dead were convicts between the ages of 20 and 62, according to the People of Baikal report published Monday in which journalists matched the names of the dead with local court records.

Among the killed mercenaries were murderers and criminals convicted of theft and drug-related offenses.

Some had been killed in combat in Bakhmut, according to People of Baikal, the focus of a months-long battle of attrition in eastern Ukraine.

Journalists first learned about the burial site in March as a result of a social media post by relatives of a convicted criminal from the Republic of Buryatia who had signed up to join Wagner and was killed in Ukraine.

After the soldier�s death, Wagner offered to bury him at the gravesite in Irkutsk, but his relatives refused.

Several relatives of Wagner fighters buried at the Aleksandrovsky cemetery first learned their loved one had been killed after People of Baikal reached out to them for comment.

Vitaly Votanovsky, who has documented the deaths of Russian soldiers in Ukraine by monitoring graveyards � including those used by Wagner � in the southern Krasnodar region, told The Moscow Times that it is common for family members not to hear about the deaths of relatives at the front.

"In the Bakinskaya cemetery [in Krasnodar], I discovered that only two out of 600 soldiers buried there were listed as killed. And all the others were quietly buried. Nobody knew about them," he said.

The Bakinskaya cemetery, which contains Wagner fighter graves, was visited earlier this month by Wagner boss Yevgeny Prigozhin who pledged to turn it into a �memorial for future generations.�

One of the relatives of a soldier buried at the Irkutsk cemetery contacted Wagner after hearing about the soldier's death from People of Baikal journalists.

According to the relative, a Wagner company representative said that they had made attempts to contact the family but received no response and decided to bury the soldier on their own.

Votanovsky, who fled Russia earlier this month after receiving death threats, said he expects more graveyards like the one in Irkutsk to come to light in the coming months.

"The government has an interest in hiding its military losses. So, of course, there will be more and more,� he told The Moscow Times.

The last official death toll from the Ukraine war provided by the Russian military was in September when Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said 5,937 troops had been killed.

However, independent researchers who monitor social media posts, media reports and new graves across Russia estimate the true death toll in Ukraine is likely to stand at over 41,000 people.

Leaked U.S. documents that came to light earlier this month show Washington believes up to 43,000 Russian soldiers have been killed in Ukraine.

Votanovsky said the deaths of soldiers and the toll it takes on their families could shift public attitudes toward the war.

"When I've met family members at cemeteries around the graves of killed soldiers almost all of them have a negative view of the war," he said.

# ? Apr 18, 2023 23:39

YerDa Zabam: Aug 13, 2016

Tai posted:

Is it glue sniffing hour?

every day is glue sniffing hour

# ? Apr 18, 2023 23:57

Flavahbeast: Jul 21, 2001

quote:

Description of video contents: Vitali is being interviewed. He says that every morning started with the Russian anthem being played through loudspeakers. During lesson time they were told that Ukraine is full of terrorists. Finally they were told that Ukraine had abandoned them, and that nobody misses them.

Thats pretty bonkers. And these are from Ukrainians who sent their children willingly to the "two week" camp in occupied Crimea, these are presumably not families who were particularly anti-Russian before all this happened

# ? Apr 19, 2023 00:59

Sedgr: Sep 16, 2007; Neat!

Putin is a real piece of poo poo.

# ? Apr 19, 2023 01:01

shadow puppet of a: Jan 10, 2007; NO TENGO SCORPIO

Sedgr posted:

Putin is a real piece of poo poo.

Please turn in your Black Hammers membership discount card, lanyard and 2FA security token.

# ? Apr 19, 2023 01:04

SpeedFreek: Jan 10, 2008; And Im Lobster Jesus!

quote:

The White House has sharply criticised Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva for accusing the United States of "encouraging" the war in Ukraine.

Lula said after a visit to China at the weekend that the US needed to start talking about peace in Ukraine.

Agreed, I don't see Russia loving off and going home so encouragement must be given. Give Ukraine a bunch of m1a2s and f16s and start training them yesterday. Set up a "dealership" close by in NATO territory for "warranty" service and cover acts of special military operation under warranty.

It's probably the fastest route to a resolution.

# ? Apr 19, 2023 02:01

zone: Dec 6, 2016

SpeedFreek posted:

Agreed, I don't see Russia loving off and going home so encouragement must be given. Give Ukraine a bunch of m1a2s and f16s and start training them yesterday. Set up a "dealership" close by in NATO territory for "warranty" service and cover acts of special military operation under warranty.

It's probably the fastest route to a resolution.

# ? Apr 19, 2023 02:21

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# ? May 31, 2024 03:19

Negostrike: Aug 15, 2015

thekeeshman posted:

Speaking of bad takes from the BRICS, Lula has joined many of his fellow "leftists" in gargling Putin's balls

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-65307553

Welp he ain't wrong

# ? Apr 19, 2023 02:51

The Something Awful Forums > Main > General Bullshit > Ukraine War: "20 months of war for a used car."

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