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skooma512)
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Xaris posted:
it's shocking when you try to find something on the internet that you know exists and it is unfindable. Google, who has a monopoly on indexing, long ago decided that the internet belongs to those who can play their opaque and entirely financially driven algorithmic game. legitimately interesting content that was intentionally left un-monetized is gone, forever. real knowledge and information is so completely obscured by an impenetrable fog of identical easily digestable factoids that it is deemed empirically incorrect in the eyes of those newly exploring the topic. we live in an eternal September except for truth itself.
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Apr 20, 2023 07:17
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reject modernity. return to bbs
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Apr 20, 2023 07:18
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that old Egyptian story rules. You write down what you want to forget, even books were making us dumb
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Apr 20, 2023 07:19
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Stereotype posted:it's shocking when you try to find something on the internet that you know exists and it is unfindable. Google, who has a monopoly on indexing, long ago decided that the internet belongs to those who can play their opaque and entirely financially driven algorithmic game. legitimately interesting content that was intentionally left un-monetized is gone, forever. real knowledge and information is so completely obscured by an impenetrable fog of identical easily digestable factoids that it is deemed empirically incorrect in the eyes of those newly exploring the topic. we live in an eternal September except for truth itself. its perfect, and soon the dumbest motherfuckers in government are gonna get their paws on those levers overtly instead of covertly
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Apr 20, 2023 07:19
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Stereotype posted:. we live in an eternal September except for truth itself. drat
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Apr 20, 2023 07:20
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Xaris posted:lol i missed it but, earlier today, both Imgur and Reddit announced nuking all old content and banning anything porn-related. i can get a link with imgur announcing this, but nothing about reddit - mind supplying a link? this feels insane
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Apr 20, 2023 07:20
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who the gently caress is an imgurian, no one
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Apr 20, 2023 07:22
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Horizon Burning posted:i can get a link with imgur announcing this, but nothing about reddit - mind supplying a link? this feels insane https://www.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/12qwagm/an_update_regarding_reddits_api/ this is a post describing how reddit is going to be changing how it provides access to its API. it's not exactly what xaris is describing and you sort of have to read between the lines but the implication here is that anyone that's wanting to scrape reddit is going to have to pay for it ThatBasqueGuy posted:who the gently caress is an imgurian, no one I only know of this like third-hand so I could be getting things wrong, but imgur sprang up specifically so that "redditors" (gently caress, ugh) would have a place to stash their images at a time when photobucket, tinypic, imageshack were all winking out of existence or were otherwise unreliable it became so tightly integrated that the "/r/whatever" URL pattern to denote a subreddit also works for imgur at some point, the ability to add captions to an image posted on imgur, coupled with the ability to leave comments on an image posted on imgur, lead to people simply using imgur as its own social media / forums site, all by itself this even created the downstream effect of imgur being blocked in China, when most other imagehosts aren't, because China (correctly) recognizes that it's effectively another facebook / instagram and needs to be regulated as such for all practical purposes
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Apr 20, 2023 07:28
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/reddit/comments/12qwagm/an_update_regarding_reddits_api/ ah so it'll be really difficult to find anything on reddit? i know apis are used for third-party apps and such, but that's about the extent of my tech knowledge.
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Apr 20, 2023 07:29
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imagine  ing on someone's image hosting site, like barnacles on a ship's prowposting, uuuuuh, finds a way
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Apr 20, 2023 07:30
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Horizon Burning posted:ah so it'll be really difficult to find anything on reddit? i know apis are used for third-party apps and such, but that's about the extent of my tech knowledge. I'm not really sure that is, regarding the trick of having google search reddit to find posts about a topic, I don't know if that relies on reddit's API, and I don't know if these changes to the API are going to stymie google's ability to do that (and therefore peoples's ability to use google to do it) but, for example: https://camas.unddit.com/ this is a site that lets you search reddit via its API: you can search by author, by subreddit, and according to a specific date range. It even grabs deleted posts. This is the second such incarnation of this site, and reddit regularly cracks down it - I imagine because the inability to search reddit this specifically is something that want to keep by design I'm almost certain that this would be going away under those API changes https://scrolller.com/ or this site, which attempts to convert reddit into an endlessly-scrolling feed akin to TikTok - I'm pretty sure you couldn't do this anymore with their proposed changes, or at least not without monetization
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Apr 20, 2023 07:35
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Smythe posted:drat it's a good line, everyone should say it all the time, because it's true
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Apr 20, 2023 07:37
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i've never met anyone who knew what "eternal September" meant and it's really disheartening to me
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Apr 20, 2023 07:38
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Stereotype posted:i've never met anyone who knew what "eternal September" meant and it's really disheartening to me i've never brought it up with anyone irl
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Apr 20, 2023 07:40
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sorry im not familiar with historical events
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Apr 20, 2023 07:40
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Zodium posted:i've never brought it up with anyone irl drat so this is your fault
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Apr 20, 2023 07:41
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gonna have to start badgering admins to bring back DPPH and take advantage of the flow of homegrown poster refugees
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Apr 20, 2023 07:42
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Delta-Wye posted:imagine
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Apr 20, 2023 07:53
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lotta pinterest bagholders. imagine investing at 80 lol. i'm actually surprised it's not lower tbh
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Apr 20, 2023 07:55
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Horizon Burning posted:i can get a link with imgur announcing this, but nothing about reddit - mind supplying a link? this feels insane I realize I unfairly lumped it in with imgur and I was somewhat wrong, but it's pretty clearly going the same imgur/tumblr/OF/Digg/Twitter/etc route too. Even then, this is a very bad sign because this is usually how these things go on the way to IPO-ing is all the investors demanding to "clean up the platform" before it launches -- this would be first step. consider it a form of digital house-flipping where you slap a new coat of flipper grey paint on the exterior and simultaneously you strip out all the copper wiring inside. the API changes are a big deal because on mobile devices the official app is total dogshit and no one uses it (rightfully) and reddit mostly blocks you from using a web browser. hypothetically, for now, PC web browser users won't see drastic changes, but like i said, this is usually how investors do things. Also as mentioned it kills third party searching sites or unddit. It's not yet clear if it'll affect search engine stuff but it's possible. Reddit search is intentionally bad. I think the most relevant near-future litmus test of how far they're going to go is if they kill off old.reddit.com. If they do that, then lol everyone will be fleeing like rats on a sinking ship e: Imgur going the route of waffleimages is a bigger immediately deal, though I'd say both are very bad for the internet anyways Xaris has issued a correction as of 08:24 on Apr 20, 2023 |
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Apr 20, 2023 08:09
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Well search is SO dead nowdays. I ask questions from GPT models, and use search only to try to find companies I don’t yet know about when buying bike parts or something.
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Apr 20, 2023 08:12
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Apr 20, 2023 08:18
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Zodium posted:i've never brought it up with anyone irl i have
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Apr 20, 2023 08:21
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Zodium posted:reject modernity. return to bbs Oh look at this fancy pants top hat person with a wired phone line in 2040. I bet your clothes are even made from natural yarn instead of reflective plastic threads from recycled truck tires.
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Apr 20, 2023 08:22
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its interesting. im not sure what political theorist would be best to search for the answers as to why esoteric, private sites like SA endure and large ventures like Reddit and Imgur have their death warrants signed at inception. looking back in 50 years it may very well be Lowtax. i cant think of a relevent locke quote nor any other enlightenment thinker, including the founders who spoke a lot on property and such. would be an interesting subject to investigate. maybe one of the many phil phds on the forums can help
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Apr 20, 2023 08:26
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Smythe posted:its interesting. im not sure what political theorist would be best to search for the answers as to why esoteric, private sites like SA endure and large ventures like Reddit and Imgur have their death warrants signed at inception. looking back in 50 years it may very well be Lowtax. i cant think of a relevent locke quote nor any other enlightenment thinker, including the founders who spoke a lot on property and such. would be an interesting subject to investigate. maybe one of the many phil phds on the forums can help SA never borrowed millions, billions or even trillions from venture capital promising rapid growth now with big returns in future, while simultaneously never having a business model ever capable of delivering on those returns. Eventually they ask for their money back.
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Apr 20, 2023 08:29
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DancingShade posted:SA never borrowed millions, billions or even trillions from venture capital promising rapid growth now with big returns in future, while simultaneously never having a business model ever capable of delivering on those returns. acutely correct and of course agreed, but i wonder if there is a broader ethos, philosophical through line that has been explored, or can be explored and applied
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Apr 20, 2023 08:31
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people love to post, and they go to where the posting can be had you can even sell people on the idea of needing to pay, to post, if the posts are good all this poo poo collapsing is a function of owners trying to make it more than just about posting reddit, imgur, all those sites, they were relatively stable for years, just as long as all it was, was people posting
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Apr 20, 2023 08:33
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as there is no business model here there is no inshittification process whereby content creators/vendors/advertisers are eventually punished for the sake of investors and then leave to pursue another site earlier in the shittification process
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Apr 20, 2023 08:36
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Smythe posted:its interesting. im not sure what political theorist would be best to search for the answers as to why esoteric, private sites like SA endure and large ventures like Reddit and Imgur have their death warrants signed at inception. looking back in 50 years it may very well be Lowtax. i cant think of a relevent locke quote nor any other enlightenment thinker, including the founders who spoke a lot on property and such. would be an interesting subject to investigate. maybe one of the many phil phds on the forums can help but the basic principles of marx's das capital still apply, particularly that on rent-seeking and tendency for rate of profit to fall. It's not enough for a corporation to be profitable, the rate of profit has to be continuously increasing or else it dies. as for SA in particular I think has stayed around, unlike a lot of old IRC servers and other forums n stuiff, because it had a monumentally large userbase and thus enough inertia to carry it forward, and with enough users willing to pay to keep the lights on. when online communities shrink, they enter a fast cycle of cliquey incestuous drama bitchery and die off (see also B&R and all the other off-site spinoffs). it's like how a lot of indie PvP FPS games are DOA in that they just don't reach a "critical mass" of users to make it work. In additional, it was never indebted nor owned by a consortium of venture investors. therefore it doesn't have to seek increasing profit and taking on larger debt to increase profit while also then needing to spend money servicing debt. There's also probably something from Walter Benjamin you could say. supposedly Conde Nast wanted to buy it but lowtax turned them down, so they ended up buying reddit instead. idk if that's true or not. it blows my mind that GameFAQS is sitll around, which is honestly cool + good. that one was probably just too niche to be corporatized to death i guess Xaris has issued a correction as of 08:39 on Apr 20, 2023 |
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Apr 20, 2023 08:36
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Smythe posted:acutely correct and of course agreed, but i wonder if there is a broader ethos, philosophical through line that has been explored, or can be explored and applied Hell yeah that'd be great. Some kind of science of it all. Grounded in materialism, of course. And it's all cyclical and self-referencing, so there'd be some kind of dialectic involved. Wonder why no one has done this yet.
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Apr 20, 2023 08:39
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Communities can't grow beyond a certain size without losing what made them a community in the first place. Then tall poppy syndrome manifests and everyone must be lowered to the acceptable standard of mediocrity or suffer ostracism. Community talent leaves for greener pastures where they can flourish on their own merit and are not naturally replaced. All you are left with is rot which cannot be cleaned up except by natural entropy. Is all that even true? I don't know but it sounded cool and smart in my head typing it.
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Apr 20, 2023 08:39
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Smythe posted:its interesting. im not sure what political theorist would be best to search for the answers as to why esoteric, private sites like SA endure and large ventures like Reddit and Imgur have their death warrants signed at inception. looking back in 50 years it may very well be Lowtax. i cant think of a relevent locke quote nor any other enlightenment thinker, including the founders who spoke a lot on property and such. would be an interesting subject to investigate. maybe one of the many phil phds on the forums can help The forums are primarily supported by the community itself while every other site is supported by advertisers. That's literally it. The only ads here are bought by people who are passionate about their threads and it costs $10 to register an account. When a community financially supports itself it can thrive, but when it becomes reliant on outside financial sources it succumbs to the manipulative coercion from that outside entity, which due to the greed implicit within capitalism is insistent on exploiting the community. online communities are fickle and nomadic not trapped physically and so the same coercion that works in real life communities doesn't engender the same captive indentured caste, it just drives everyone away.
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Apr 20, 2023 08:40
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Smythe posted:acutely correct and of course agreed, but i wonder if there is a broader ethos, philosophical through line that has been explored, or can be explored and applied How about "if you demand ever-increasing returns from anything, eventually you will gently caress up whatever made people want to use it to begin with." So the key is not demanding increasing returns, which means keeping it away from capitalism. Whether by ideology or being enough of a mangosteen-obsessed fuckup that you never manage to get around to it. About reddit: anyone have interesting links to torrents of vast indexed archives of its material?
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Apr 20, 2023 08:40
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did B&R die off? only checked it momentarily during the first initial SA/Lowtax poo poo. lmao if so. place felt very neurotic and was unbrowsable (but good intent on them)
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Apr 20, 2023 08:41
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the worst people on earth are "investors" and every single one of them belongs in jail forever
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Apr 20, 2023 08:41
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Stereotype posted:The forums are primarily supported by the community itself while every other site is supported by advertisers. That's literally it. The only ads here are bought by people who are passionate about their threads and it costs $10 to register an account. When a community financially supports itself it can thrive, but when it becomes reliant on outside financial sources it succumbs to the manipulative coercion from that outside entity, which due to the greed implicit within capitalism is insistent on exploiting the community. online communities are fickle and nomadic not trapped physically and so the same coercion that works in real life communities doesn't engender the same captive indentured caste, it just drives everyone away. Nice. I like it. Atopian posted:How about "if you demand ever-increasing returns from anything, eventually you will gently caress up whatever made people want to use it to begin with." There is a fable about killing a goose that lays the golden egg in pursuit of short term gains then ending up with nothing but I think nobody reads those books anymore. It's a shame.
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Apr 20, 2023 08:43
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DancingShade posted:Communities can't grow beyond a certain size without losing what made them a community in the first place. Then tall poppy syndrome manifests and everyone must be lowered to the acceptable standard of mediocrity or suffer ostracism. Community talent leaves for greener pastures where they can flourish on their own merit and are not naturally replaced. All you are left with is rot which cannot be cleaned up except by natural entropy. this isn't relevant to the forums though. the segregation provided by the subforums and even just the threads allows people to find community on the scales that they are comfortable with, which scientifically is on the order of a hundred people. these here forums have several tens of thousands of users and don't have an issue with community size limitations. megachurches solve this by separating their congregations into subgroups that are the size of normal congregations, which follow normal church practices by further separating into smaller study groups. none of this is new or novel, only the names of the categories and the topics of discussion are different
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Apr 20, 2023 08:44
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Stereotype posted:this isn't relevant to the forums though. the segregation provided by the subforums and even just the threads allows people to find community on the scales that they are comfortable with, which scientifically is on the order of a hundred people. these here forums have several tens of thousands of users and don't have an issue with community size limitations. megachurches solve this by separating their congregations into subgroups that are the size of normal congregations, which follow normal church practices by further separating into smaller study groups. none of this is new or novel, only the names of the categories and the topics of discussion are different Makes sense.
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Apr 20, 2023 08:46
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it's all so simple
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Apr 20, 2023 08:48
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