(Thread IKs:
skooma512)
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captainbananas posted:Hell yeah that'd be great. Some kind of science of it all. Grounded in materialism, of course. And it's all cyclical and self-referencing, so there'd be some kind of dialectic involved. no need to be reductive, we can assume everyone here is reasonably versed in fundamental marxism. fed 10 talks about faction, 55 about things not being too big nor small. adorno and horkheimer talk about capitalism as crushing culture. the ebbs and flows of the modern internet invites broad analysis and interdisciplinary examination. i guess. im sure there is a good kant pullquote also but i dont know which one. idk!!
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Apr 20, 2023 08:52
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marx was way too optimistic imho
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Apr 20, 2023 08:53
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i agree with all these posts!!!! i only yearn to unify them under one coherent theory of internettial stability. to build a forums kallipolis!!!!!!!!!!!
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Apr 20, 2023 08:56
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perhaps this is the great project of the forums..............................
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Apr 20, 2023 08:57
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Smythe posted:its interesting. im not sure what political theorist would be best to search for the answers as to why esoteric, private sites like SA endure and large ventures like Reddit and Imgur have their death warrants signed at inception. looking back in 50 years it may very well be Lowtax. i cant think of a relevent locke quote nor any other enlightenment thinker, including the founders who spoke a lot on property and such. would be an interesting subject to investigate. maybe one of the many phil phds on the forums can help cybernetics, bitch
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Apr 20, 2023 08:58
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Stereotype posted:marx was way too optimistic imho
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Apr 20, 2023 09:03
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at their core, reddit and imgur and all the other fail social media sites revolve around runaway positive feedback processes where attention begets more attention, which both inevitably turns them into social goo and materially demands ever more hardware and power to sustain. their attempt to build for scalability is what dooms them. sa is robust against this because when a positive feedback process starts, which they clearly do, goons run things into the ground, and because you have to read every post in chronological order or just skip ahead, the process organically terminates. this is of course viewed at the highest macro level, in practice the process is full of complex interactions between earnest goobers and trolls and white noise posters who together comprise the wonderful posting ecosystem of the best website on the internet. on the flipside, this can only scale so far. there could never be a reddit or facebook-scale sa.
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Apr 20, 2023 09:05
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Smythe posted:perhaps this is the great project of the forums.............................. I've said for a long time that these here forums are the perfect topic for a whole category of sociography dissertations. These forums are one of the most interesting sociological phenomenons that have come from the internet by a huge margin
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Apr 20, 2023 09:09
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Xaris posted:i dont think marx ever thought humanity was capable of destroying itself consuming every last resource on the planet, nor capable of hyper-militarization with rapid-fire high-precision mass-death machines and omnipresent surveillance lol dumbass
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Apr 20, 2023 09:10
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"humans would never destroy themselves by consuming all the resources. no way. they'd for sure stop hyper militarization and rapid-fire high-precision mass-death machines and omnipresent surveillance before it resulted in their complete annihilation" - karl "naïve simpleton" marx
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Apr 20, 2023 09:12
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Zodium posted:at their core, reddit and imgur and all the other fail social media sites revolve around runaway positive feedback processes where attention begets more attention, which both inevitably turns them into social goo and materially demands ever more hardware and power to sustain. their attempt to build for scalability is what dooms them. sa is robust against this because when a positive feedback process starts, which they clearly do, goons run things into the ground, and because you have to read every post in chronological order or just skip ahead, the process organically terminates. this is of course viewed at the highest macro level, in practice the process is full of complex interactions between earnest goobers and trolls and white noise posters who together comprise the wonderful posting ecosystem of the best website on the internet. on the flipside, this can only scale so far. there could never be a reddit or facebook-scale sa. something I've thought about a lot, but haven't quite formed a cohesive concept around, is that the particular formatting of reddit (and to some extent, facebook comments), is purpose-built to resist the formation of established ground-truth because every thread is fated to fade away over time because comments cannot (normally) be read in a straight chronological fashion because you can't even search the loving website properly there is never any hope for any kind of new consensus. Someone pipes up with a bit of news, or a novel idea, or a strong argument, and you might even get people at that moment, within a span of, say, 24 hours, to agree with it, or to absorb some new information and then it's gone and then a week later the same thread pops up again, if it does at all, except nobody has learned anything and it just goes on like that forever
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Apr 20, 2023 09:17
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Zodium posted:at their core, reddit and imgur and all the other fail social media sites revolve around runaway positive feedback processes where attention begets more attention, which both inevitably turns them into social goo and materially demands ever more hardware and power to sustain. their attempt to build for scalability is what dooms them. sa is robust against this because when a positive feedback process starts, which they clearly do, goons run things into the ground, and because you have to read every post in chronological order or just skip ahead, the process organically terminates. this is of course viewed at the highest macro level, in practice the process is full of complex interactions between earnest goobers and trolls and white noise posters who together comprise the wonderful posting ecosystem of the best website on the internet. on the flipside, this can only scale so far. there could never be a reddit or facebook-scale sa. agree. then we should consider is the better, or perhaps best internet, comprised solely of many SAs? is there any sort of federation, or have we just reinvented reddit? is in fact the separation the key to endurance and harmony? is the interlinking the culprit? or? alternatively, is the internet of 99 supreme, of individual websites on small private webhosts, best? what is the best internet? at its inception SA wasn't meaningfully differentiated from any other PHPBB forum, but we are here. What is it that distinguished us from stardestroyer.net, reddit, and luelinks? size? paywall? is paywall merely a contributor to size and irrelevant in and of itself? is the generally (misanthropic?) monoculture the secret sauce? or it is merely the monetization model, the resistance to capitalist forces, that matters. what is the intersection of frankfurt school culture concerns and marxist materialist concerns that gives SA its edge i have long posited that a major contributor to SAs indomitable durability is how insanely conservative it is. things move very slowly here, administratively. hume had a lot of problems and was dumb as poo poo but his theory that authority and stability are principally derived from time and repetition i think has merit. this of course pisses off users who want to enact change and reform quickly, but imo it has helped the site survive the turbulent waters of internet discourse, and, err, ugh, zeitgeist.
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Apr 20, 2023 09:20
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Stereotype posted:I've said for a long time that these here forums are the perfect topic for a whole category of sociography dissertations. These forums are one of the most interesting sociological phenomenons that have come from the internet by a huge margin agree!!!
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Apr 20, 2023 09:20
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gradenko_2000 posted:something I've thought about a lot, but haven't quite formed a cohesive concept around, is that the particular formatting of reddit (and to some extent, facebook comments), is purpose-built to resist the formation of established ground-truth yes!!!!!!!!!
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Apr 20, 2023 09:21
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Smythe posted:agree. then we should consider is the better, or perhaps best internet, comprised solely of many SAs? is there any sort of federation, or have we just reinvented reddit? is in fact the separation the key to endurance and harmony? is the interlinking the culprit? or? alternatively, is the internet of 99 supreme, of individual websites on small private webhosts, best? what is the best internet? at its inception SA wasn't meaningfully differentiated from any other PHPBB forum, but we are here. What is it that distinguished us from stardestroyer.net, reddit, and luelinks? size? paywall? is paywall merely a contributor to size and irrelevant in and of itself? is the generally (misanthropic?) monoculture the secret sauce? this is also in reply to gradenko but I’m phone posting: the internet is an expression of the cybernetic capitalist ideological axiom that the mind, understood as the cause of behavior in the most general sense, is computational and interchangeable, which itself is an expression of the capitalist axiom to extract surplus value for the purpose of building and rebuilding structures to more intensively extract surplus value from labor. from this perspective, Reddit et al are the best internet, or maybe more aptly, the highest stage of the internet. the internet of 99 was just an unstable phase, the system was always striving towards an undifferentiated and timeless sludge. behavior is not computational, however, it is ecological, it derives from the rich structure of the material world at many scales that just so happens to fit together in exactly the way it must fit together, and the late cybernetic ecosystem of digital sludge makes you stupid precisely because it is unstructured or arbitrarily structured. sa is what it is because it is built around the idea that living in sludge makes you stupid. lowtax got that on some level, and insisted on a structure that fostered differentiation without isolation or segregation, and I suppose you can view that as a kind of conservatism. Marxism and “old” philosophy are at heart making sense of that rich structure of the material world and the resulting complexity of behavior. I think if anything what Marx failed to foresee was self organization; that capitalism would eventually be able to create an enclosure around human perception, spanning even the ruling class. SA endures because it originated in direct resistance to that, and Lowtax was willing to accept existence at finite scale to maintain structure at the cost of scale. that is why sa builds complexity as it ages and gains history, despite actually diminishing in scale, because its structure precludes any one feedback process running away. but this can’t scale, not in any way, because it is basically a negation of the internet. it’s the intersection of ecological psychology, Marxism, cybernetics and complex systems theory.
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Apr 20, 2023 10:07
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Zodium posted:it’s the intersection of ecological psychology, Marxism, cybernetics and complex systems theory. And shitposting
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Apr 20, 2023 10:21
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Smythe posted:agree. then we should consider is the better, or perhaps best internet, comprised solely of many SAs? is there any sort of federation, or have we just reinvented reddit? is in fact the separation the key to endurance and harmony? is the interlinking the culprit? or? alternatively, is the internet of 99 supreme, of individual websites on small private webhosts, best? what is the best internet? at its inception SA wasn't meaningfully differentiated from any other PHPBB forum, but we are here. What is it that distinguished us from stardestroyer.net, reddit, and luelinks? size? paywall? is paywall merely a contributor to size and irrelevant in and of itself? is the generally (misanthropic?) monoculture the secret sauce? The paywall was hugely influential in the early days , as was the willingness to aggressively ban accounts. Not that all that came about from either was entirely good. Prior to the time it went up, things like all your base were blowing up and drawing a lot of attention. The file forums were pulling in a lot of people, too. A lot of poo poo began to pour in and the forums were beginning to redditify or experience eternal September or what have you. For awhile registration was just closed, except for short unannounced windows, and later the paywall was implemented. No more free accounts combined with the quick trigger on bans went a long way towards forcing posters to spend time learning the culture and consider the quality of their posts, even moreso than today because the concept of paying for access to something like a web forum was pretty novel at the time.
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Apr 20, 2023 10:28
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skooma512 posted:A Chik-Fil-A and a drive thru Starbucks is gonna go up on the next corner from my fiance's apartment and they're right in front of freeway entrance and exit. hahah good luck. that will be gridlocked all day
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Apr 20, 2023 11:31
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They should do postal banking so I can put my posts in the bank
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Apr 20, 2023 11:37
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Egg Moron posted:They should do postal banking so I can put my posts in the bank
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Apr 20, 2023 11:39
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back into the grind... starting from zero. but that's ok. the secret motivation that im chipping away at America keeps me going.
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Apr 20, 2023 11:51
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gradenko_2000 posted:https://twitter.com/adamfaze/status/1648434730562637824?t=ZhN3_fVxU9_XuttVZuVC8Q&s=19 it's so loving bad https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ocodacMatQ
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Apr 20, 2023 11:55
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also thank you doomsday posters for the very good anthro of the internet / cybernetics posts in light of imgr. excellent commentary
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Apr 20, 2023 11:57
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it will probably be good for the internet to be less and less useful.
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Apr 20, 2023 12:00
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3-month t bills continue their rampage https://twitter.com/DeItaone/status/1649000243734691842
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Apr 20, 2023 12:01
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the Internet used to be cool and you could find anything on it. now you can’t find anything, and ofc the powers that be could switch it off any moment if it became a threat edit; the Internet we see now is just the result of inevitable consolidation under capitalism Rated PG-34 has issued a correction as of 12:17 on Apr 20, 2023 |
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Apr 20, 2023 12:11
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Rated PG-34 posted:the powers that be could switch it off any moment if it became a threat yeah look what they did to Twitter, which was not even nominally leftist
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Apr 20, 2023 12:20
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Smythe posted:i agree with all these posts!!!! i only yearn to unify them under one coherent theory of internettial stability. to build a forums kallipolis!!!!!!!!!!! Ponder your monad
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Apr 20, 2023 12:21
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Lmso blAckrock
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Apr 20, 2023 12:24
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euphronius posted:yeah look what they did to Twitter, which was not even nominally leftist Thread title
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Apr 20, 2023 12:24
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Today will be s fine day for housing chat. Get those local redfin screenshots ready
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Apr 20, 2023 12:25
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https://twitter.com/LizAnnSonders/status/1649012143897837569?s=20
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Apr 20, 2023 12:29
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I'm homeowning over here, I'm a huge homo
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Apr 20, 2023 12:30
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Apr 20, 2023 12:34
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also everyone needs to have kids
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Apr 20, 2023 12:35
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Look at those losers in the 25%. I'm a homeowner and it rules. If you can't bootstrap into a house by mid 30s mayb focus on getting your poo poo together
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Apr 20, 2023 12:44
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19 o'clock posted:also everyone needs to have kids Thread title
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Apr 20, 2023 12:45
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not everything can be a thread title lol
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Apr 20, 2023 12:46
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euphronius posted:not everything can be a thread title lol thread title
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Apr 20, 2023 12:46
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